Brown Dragon error amongst a million

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Brown Dragons can't fly, they don't have wings.

Jeez, WotC, can't you get at least ONE piece of continuity correct? And you wonder why you alienated so many people with 4e, my gods! (or is it exarchs? Damn it, STAY CONSISTENT! It's what kept D&D alive for 30+ years and now time is going backwards until the game implodes on itself!)
Brown Dragons can't fly, they don't have wings.

Jeez, WotC, can't you get at least ONE piece of continuity correct instead of raping it as always? And you wonder why you alienated so many people with 4e, my gods! (or is it exarchs? Damn it, STAY CONSISTENT! It's what kept D&D alive for 30+ years and now time is going backwards until the game implodes on itself!)

Yay, Tradition. :rolleye2:

"In Soviet Russia, Dungeons and Dragons plays YOU."
Resident Logic Cannon
The flappy leathery skin looks an awful lot like wings to me.

Hell it is almost all wing, that thing be able to glide pretty well probably.
Brown Dragons can't fly, they don't have wings.

No... Gold dragons don't have wings, maybe someone should re-read their Monstrous Manual

More seriously - Who said brown dragons can't fly? I must have missed that history channel exclusive documentary where they found all those dragon bones.

Of all the things that D&D has had for 30 years - consistency is not one of them. Unless you are talking about that kind of pulpy, grainy consistency that all paper has.

ATTENTION:  If while reading my post you find yourself thinking "Either this guy is being sarcastic, or he is an idiot," do please assume that I am an idiot. It makes reading your replies more entertaining. If, however, you find yourself hoping that I am not being even remotely serious then you are very likely correct as I find irreverence and being ridiculous to be relaxing.

The heat in the desert will easily provide lift for them to get up high. Once they are that high, as sigil said, they would be able to glide verry well.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Forgive the clueless noob...what brown dragons, where?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Forgive the clueless noob...what brown dragons, where?

Here you go:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20081024b

It is an excerpt from Draconomicon.

Edit: Ninjaed!
Thanks...yeah, they're all wing, like the dragons on that Sci-Fi movie last weekend, "Fire and Ice".

Get a grip, man.
Edit: Ninjaed!

The ninja-bunny strikes again.

IMAGE(http://www.ninjadorables.com/TheNinjas/NinjaBunnyImage.jpg)
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Resident Logic Cannon
They are pretty cool looking. :D

Anyone I am 33, been gaming for 10 years and any continuity hiccup doesn't bother me much. Life is filled with drama I don't let games create more drama for me.
Brown Dragons can't fly, they don't have wings.

Um.

So?

That hasn't stopped Oriental dragons from flying for the past 8,000 years.
Brown Dragons can't fly, they don't have wings.

Brown dragons can fly if the rules say they can. And if you think consistency kept the game alive this long, you're living in a dream world.
Brown Dragons are just renamed Sand Dragons (D&D 3.5 Sandstorm).
They had wings and could fly then.
They have wings and can fly now.
Where's the consistency problem?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Guys, they took out THAC0! DOWN WITH THIS GAME!!!11one!!1
Guys, they took out THAC0! DOWN WITH THIS GAME!!!11one!!1

Why does AC go up?
Why does AC go up?!
Why does AC go up?!!
Why does AC go up?!!!
Why does AC go up?!!!!
Why does AC go up?!!!!!
Why does AC go up?!!!!!!

Oh yeah, because it makes more sense.
More seriously - Who said brown dragons can't fly? I must have missed that history channel exclusive documentary where they found all those dragon bones.

It was an Animal Planet special a few years back not a History Channel exclusive. Although they were more of drakes then they were dragons if you ask me. Although I don't recall them discussing brown dragons in it. They did discuss that platinum was the secret to dragon's ability to fly and breath fiore though. And now you know why dragons keep hoards.:D
Brown Dragons can't fly

Sure they can, all it takes is Faith and Trust.... oh and something I forgot. Dust!


Brown Dragons are just renamed Sand Dragons (D&D 3.5 Sandstorm).

Thanks I was trying to find them to see if they didn't have wings in 3.5. As you can see the images look fairly consistent from one edition to the other.




That poor horse.

ATTENTION:  If while reading my post you find yourself thinking "Either this guy is being sarcastic, or he is an idiot," do please assume that I am an idiot. It makes reading your replies more entertaining. If, however, you find yourself hoping that I am not being even remotely serious then you are very likely correct as I find irreverence and being ridiculous to be relaxing.

That poor horse.

Nah, that brown dragon has tasted horse. It's more after the scared peasant. Adrenaline makes things taste better. mmmmmmm
One thing I like about the Brown Dragon design (and Sand Dragon) is that the nostrils are on the top of the head.
One thing I like about the Brown Dragon design (and Sand Dragon) is that the nostrils are on the top of the head.

Agreed. It's those little nods to realism and logic that make fantasy creatures that much more fantastic.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Brown Dragons can't fly, they don't have wings.

Jeez, WotC, can't you get at least ONE piece of continuity correct? And you wonder why you alienated so many people with 4e, my gods! (or is it exarchs? Damn it, STAY CONSISTENT! It's what kept D&D alive for 30+ years and now time is going backwards until the game implodes on itself!)

Repeat after me: Goosfraba. Goosfraba.
Personally, I think it's funny how Razz keeps reading 4e stuff just to get himself worked up.
1) I think he's right way back in 2e they couldn't fly
2) Who cares? This is by no means even close to a sacred cow.
3) Errors are unintentional mistakes, not changes intentionally built into the system.
It's a dragon who lives to eat foods it hasn't eaten before.

I think we can all learn something from that.

Also, that big, leathery wing-like appendage probably allows it to fly.

A list of CharOp Handbooks I'm currently updating:

Heart of the Dragon: A Dragonborn's Handbook

Infernal Wrath: A Tiefling's Handbook

1) I think he's right way back in 2e they couldn't fly

Ok I found it now for 3.0e. I stopped looking when Crimson_Concerto said it was the Sand Dragon.



Yeah it definitely looks different now. So they scrapped the Brown Dragon (which they didn't update to 3.5e) and renamed the Sand Dragon to be chromatic.
Wait, so this was a real thread? When I hovered my mouse over the title to get the preview I thought it would a joke thread...

... turns out I was kind of right.

Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.

Personally I'm rather disappointed with the loss of the classic. flightless, brown dragon. I don't have a problem with the sand dragon, but I liked the old brown dragon better. We already have blue dragons to soar through the desert sky.

Of course what disappoints me even more is how threads like this make me feel old. The responses they generate, as poster after poster says its a good thing D&D is killing sacred cows, it makes me feel at the edge of yelling "shut up you young whipper-snappers, you don't know what your talking about." I'm only 30, and I don't like feeling like a crotchety 80 year old.

I like the mechanical changes of 4th edition, but many of the flavor changes continue to baffle me. I have endured the visual change in the green dragon. Its new appearance has no mechanical impact so I can keep using the old imagery for my campaigns.

Most of you may not care that the true brown dragon is no more, or even know there ever was one in the first place, but I will miss it.
Personally I'm rather disappointed with the loss of the classic. flightless, brown dragon. I don't have a problem with the sand dragon, but I liked the old brown dragon better. We already have blue dragons to soar through the desert sky.

Of course what disappoints me even more is how threads like this make me feel old. The responses they generate, as poster after poster says its a good thing D&D is killing sacred cows, it makes me feel at the edge of yelling "shut up you young whipper-snappers, you don't know what your talking about." I'm only 30, and I don't like feeling like a crotchety 80 year old.

I like the mechanical changes of 4th edition, but many of the flavor changes continue to baffle me. I have endured the visual change in the green dragon. Its new appearance has no mechanical impact so I can keep using the old imagery for my campaigns.

Most of you may not care that the true brown dragon is no more, or even know there ever was one in the first place, but I will miss it.

I'm fairly certain most dragons would feel insulted to be compared to the old brown dragon. If it can't fly, why is it a dragon at all?? That seems more like the Landwyrms from the Draconomicon to me (and seriously, if a dragon isn't in the Draconomicon, I don't consider it to be an actual dragon at all).
Resident Logic Cannon
They are pretty cool looking.

Anyone I am 33, been gaming for 10 years and any continuity hiccup doesn't bother me much. Life is filled with drama I don't let games create more drama for me.

Careful, Rauric ;), that's a very enlightened sentiment. Can't have that sort of thing around here; gotta have drama.

Hey, that rhymes.
/\ Art
We already have blue dragons to soar through the desert sky.

Actually they have been relocated to the coastal regions(which makes a lot more sense for them), so the deserts were sort of open to new squatters.
If you're upset that they changed BROWN DRAGONS, of all things, then you shouldn't be playing this edition.

You know, because they changed just about EVERY SINGLE THING THAT WAS MORE ICONIC THAN BROWN DRAGONS ALREADY.
Wishlist: -Alternate ability bonuses for pre-PHB3 races -Lots more superior implements or an official customization rule -Monk multiclass feat that grants Unarmed Combatant
then you shouldn't be playing this edition.

Pssst! He isn't.

I still think arguing over whether dragons actually need wings to be able to fly is hilarious...

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

Brown Dragons can't fly, they don't have wings.

Jeez, WotC, can't you get at least ONE piece of continuity correct? And you wonder why you alienated so many people with 4e, my gods! (or is it exarchs? Damn it, STAY CONSISTENT! It's what kept D&D alive for 30+ years and now time is going backwards until the game implodes on itself!)

really, wings or not on a brown dragon bother you?
I have never even seen one used in a game.
I have never even seen one used in a game.

OH! PICK ME! :D

This is actually one of the reasons I'm excited about the preview. In the last game I ran, the PCs ended up with a Wyrmling Sand Dragon cohort who thought one of the characters was its daddy. It remained in the game for a total of 24 sessions, from session #2 to the finale in session #25,

So, just so you know, they HAVE been used before. I'm just sayin'. :P

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
OH! PICK ME! :D

This is actually one of the reasons I'm excited about the preview. In the last game I ran, the PCs ended up with a Wyrmling Sand Dragon cohort who thought one of the characters was its daddy. It remained in the game for a total of 24 sessions, from session #2 to the finale in session #25,

So, just so you know, they HAVE been used before. I'm just sayin'. :P

But did it have wings, or was it at least able to fly?
OH! PICK ME! :D

This is actually one of the reasons I'm excited about the preview. In the last game I ran, the PCs ended up with a Wyrmling Sand Dragon cohort who thought one of the characters was its daddy. It remained in the game for a total of 24 sessions, from session #2 to the finale in session #25,

So, just so you know, they HAVE been used before. I'm just sayin'. :P

k thats wonderful
Face it, the new brown dragons are basically flying sand eels.

Which, by the way, is awesome.
I've been playing the game a long time, now that they've posted pictures I remember that the brown and sand dragons existed... but if you had asked me to name as many dragons and I could from D&D before this excerpt went up... neither one of those would have made the list.

Just because something is old doesn't make it 'classic'.

The old brown dragons are hardly 'classics'.
Aesop had it right 2,500 years ago, "By endeavoring to please everyone, he had pleased no one, and lost his ass in the bargain".