3 months later. Have I been lied to by Wizards of The Coast?

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3 months now these 4th edition books have sat at my gaming area unused. With noticeable dust, unfortunately. My friends wanted to wait till the DDI tools came out, since that was the major selling point of "upgrading" for our troop. Now? We got tired of waiting, so we're playing White Wolf games.

Why do I feel like were we lied to about DDi? Why does this feel like vapourware, the same way Master Tools ended up over what we were told was a map program issue. Originally they were to be ready at the games release. 3 months later, they're still not all out. Matter of fact, the ones that showed the most promise are still not released.

Why? What could have gone wrong that pushed back release of these tools for 3 months? After seeing the vid clips on those giant convention screens, these tools were the sole reason for my troop to get into the new edition (that and what we thought would be easier rules for stuff like grapple). And it was always talked about how these systems would be ready to go when we got our hands on the books. Even now, I look at the lil ad for DDi that came with my book set. Still nothing.

You haven't talked to the public about this. You haven't admitted that something is amiss in Denmark D&D'sville. And as a company there has been no reasoning given to the fanbase that didn't sound like an insult.

And to see stuff like this:

"D&DI Tools Update

After we launch our D&DI subscription service, the Character Builder will become our #1 priority. First up will be a public Beta test, then a commercial release, and then our development efforts will move onto the Character Visualizer. "
... shows that something happened and we weren't told. Why the deception in regards to the product?

Will you please tell me and anyone else wondering why this lack of development happened?

I can't in good conscience use these books if we are going to become the victims of a bait and switch.
Well, hold on a sec. I agree that D&DI has been...let's say, disappointing...but you're suggesting that you haven't played the game because they haven't released the tools.

The books can stand on their own, and I would submit that you didn't get baited-and-switched in that respect: you paid for and have the books. Now, if you assume that the cost of the books also included the use of the D&DI tools, I see your argument, though I think it's cutting off your nose to spite your own face not to play the game, and the D&DI tools were (AFAIK) always going to be subscription-based.
Why? What could have gone wrong that pushed back release of these tools for 3 months?

More than 3 months... As a matter of fact a gaming community website I frequent is betting that the VTT won't be out until the PHB3 is released. (Keep in mind the PHB2 hasn't been released) I think it is more likely they scrap the table before then though. Vaporware as you said...

I sincerely hope this isn't the case, but as I've stated many a time on these forums, the more time that goes on the less likely it is that we get what was promised to us.
At the rate WOTC is going. All the tools for 4th ed DDi will be out and fully functioning and bug free the day before 5th ed hits the stores.
More than 3 months... As a matter of fact a gaming community website I frequent is betting that the VTT won't be out until the PHB3 is released. (Keep in mind the PHB2 hasn't been released) I think it is more likely they scrap the table before then though. Vaporware as you said...

And several websites that I have visited claim that the world ends in 2012, and we all know everything said on the internet is true.
I think it is more likely they scrap the table before then though. Vaporware as you said...

As someone who's seen/demoed/clicked on the Game Table, I can assure you it isn't vaporware.

It needs work, there's no doubt, but it also isn't at a stage where one would ball it up and throw it away either.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

D&DI is intended to be subscription-based, independent of any book purchases; to use it requires an additional purchase (a subscription). So, no, you weren't lied to. The books are what they're s'posed to be.

The D&DI however . . . isn't ;). That's a whole other issue (at least as far as bait-n-switch tactics are concerned). I can understand the frustration of those who bought into 4e with certain expections about the D&DI. I wouldn't call it bait-n-switch, maybe a bit misleading, but that's not quite the same thing, is it?

For myself: The virtual game table (in particular) seemed interesting, since I have gaming buddies spread across several states now. It's getting harder to get together anymore; online DnDing (which I never really considered before hearing about D&DI) seemed awesome.

Will we ever see it? I have serious doubts. Even if it ends up being a no-show though, I still have my books. Table-top gaming is something I never have to worry about going "offline" :D.
/\ Art
As someone who's seen/demoed/clicked on the Game Table, I can assure you it isn't vaporware.

I didn't mean to imply that it IS vaporware. But that it could become so.
And several websites that I have visited claim that the world ends in 2012, and we all know everything said on the internet is true.

Right... it isn't that I'm agreeing with them, but I'm just saying that there are a substantial amount of people who see this as a very likely possibility.
As someone who's seen/demoed/clicked on the Game Table, I can assure you it isn't vaporware.

It needs work, there's no doubt, but it also isn't at a stage where one would ball it up and throw it away either.

But it was supposed to have been out already. That's what I'm referring to. I personally feel it's bad business that WoTC has avoided real explanations to the slack. And the witty replies left here back in June were somewhat offensive to the software crowd.

I didn't mean to imply that it IS vaporware. But that it could become so.

Exactly what happened to Master Tools, before what was left became eTools.

Well, hold on a sec. I agree that D&DI has been...let's say, disappointing...but you're suggesting that you haven't played the game because they haven't released the tools.

Yes. Exactly. You are correct. When we can't get together to play, it was the ideal solution. With gas prices being outrageous and normal life demanding more work hours every passing month, the idea of being able to play from the computer was great! And now I find it's not going to be version sensitive, and somewhat regret buying the books now, all things considered.
"I really wish I had a button on my keyboard that said 'Whiner Smash' and when I pressed it, a hammer would pop out of peoples' screens and crush their fingers so they can't type anymore."

"You are not entitled to anything, Wizards is providing you with a service which you would not otherwise have... Simple as that...

"I'll stop myself there before I break the CoC against this wall of... Well, if you don't know, it's because you're contributing greatly to the wall."


And several websites that I have visited claim that the world ends in 2012, and we all know everything said on the internet is true.

"When 2012 rolls around and we're all dead... You'll eat those words... Okay, sorry, I had to say it, I agree wholeheartedly with your assertion..."
"Don't ask me about the way I type, at best, I'll ignore you (or have no intention of actually reading the thread I posted in again). If I respond, it will probably be sarcastic. I could explain it here, but really, why should I? I am asked often, and usually in a rude and condescending manner, and so, giving the answer here would only serve to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of stupid people I don't care to grant that benefit. Also, if it annoys you, just remember that somewhere out there, my spirits were lifted, because I really like annoying people that are close-minded enough to be annoyed by something as minor as that; not to mention, there are a good number of people on the internet who can't even bother to learn to write American English (or any other form of English, I can't make criticisms about languages in which I am not proficient) properly (people for whom it is their first language), and that is far more irritating, yet commonly accepted."
"I really wish I had a button on my keyboard that said 'Whiner Smash' and when I pressed it, a hammer would pop out of peoples' screens and crush their fingers so they can't type anymore."

"You are not entitled to anything, Wizards is providing you with a service which you would not otherwise have... Simple as that...

"I'll stop myself there before I break the CoC against this wall of... Well, if you don't know, it's because you're contributing greatly to the wall."




"When 2012 rolls around and we're all dead... You'll eat those words... Okay, sorry, I had to say it, I agree wholeheartedly with your assertion..."

wow whining about people whining that's original wait no it's not
"I really wish I had a button on my keyboard that said 'Whiner Smash' and when I pressed it, a hammer would pop out of peoples' screens and crush their fingers so they can't type anymore."

"You are not entitled to anything, Wizards is providing you with a service which you would not otherwise have... Simple as that...

"I'll stop myself there before I break the CoC against this wall of... Well, if you don't know, it's because you're contributing greatly to the wall."




"When 2012 rolls around and we're all dead... You'll eat those words... Okay, sorry, I had to say it, I agree wholeheartedly with your assertion..."

"Actually, this isn't quite all that I said... I guess I didn't stop myself in time..."

"Oh, and as for 'whining about whining', my policy is to give what I get. An eye for an eye, as they say..."

"Yeah, I know... 'An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind'... Think about it for a second though, that's just saying it's okay to blind me, I'm the one in the wrong for blinding you back... In the end, if I'm going to get blinded for no reason, I believe I'm perfectly justified in popping out a couple eyeballs. Oh, and to you overly sensitive whiners who can dish it, but can't take it, that's not a threat, just a philosophy..."
"Don't ask me about the way I type, at best, I'll ignore you (or have no intention of actually reading the thread I posted in again). If I respond, it will probably be sarcastic. I could explain it here, but really, why should I? I am asked often, and usually in a rude and condescending manner, and so, giving the answer here would only serve to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of stupid people I don't care to grant that benefit. Also, if it annoys you, just remember that somewhere out there, my spirits were lifted, because I really like annoying people that are close-minded enough to be annoyed by something as minor as that; not to mention, there are a good number of people on the internet who can't even bother to learn to write American English (or any other form of English, I can't make criticisms about languages in which I am not proficient) properly (people for whom it is their first language), and that is far more irritating, yet commonly accepted."
"Actually, this isn't quite all that I said... I guess I didn't stop myself in time..."

I know I saw it before it was edited apparently they got to it right before
I quoted you.
But it was supposed to have been out already. That's what I'm referring to. I personally feel it's bad business that WoTC has avoided real explanations to the slack. And the witty replies left here back in June were somewhat offensive to the software crowd.

We've all been dissapointed by the lack of updates, but it seems to be (with a few exceptions) typical corporate policy (for most corporations, not just WotC/Hasbro). "We're delaying our product, that's all we have to say right now".

However, largely through the efforts of this community, we now have a weekly update from Randy Buehler, the VP of digital gaming.

Granted, having weekly updates still doesn't get us the product any faster, but it definately helps (for me, at least) with the fear of the projects being abandoned.

I also find it telling that they have a Digital Gaming dept now (aparently), with their own VP. The Mastertools/eTools debacle was something they were definately just "bolting on" to the company. It was going to be a "be all" software application, but it was all being developed by a 3rd party. There was also no plan (that I was aware of) to bring part of that tool in-house.

D&DI has lots of support internally that we've seen, including the fact that it's (partly) a hosted service.

Does this mean they can't/won't scrap it at the last moment? Not by itself, no.

For me, however, these all show signs of a mature plan. That *plan* is what gives me faith that they'll get it right this time. In they past it always started with a good idea, but never had that "flesh out feel".

Maybe it's just me, but this time it feels different. ~shrug~

Your mileage may vary.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

"I really wish I had a button on my keyboard that said 'Whiner Smash' and when I pressed it, a hammer would pop out of peoples' screens and crush their fingers so they can't type anymore."

Wow. I just took that as a huge "#$@^ YOU". I really don't appreciate that. If you honestly feel like we're just whining about the whole thing then maybe you should do some research about exactly what everyone on these forums has had to put up with to try and get some answers involving DDi. Granted, on the whole the community guys have done a lot better recently (IMO) and some people, like WolfStar, are satisfied with what Randy releases every week. Others aren't so satisfied. I'm really just happy that as a community, we've gotten a few things to change and by voicing some of our disdain for the happenings lately in the "customer service" (this isn't REALLY customer service, but I'm pretty sure most will get the idea if they've kept up with things) area of the forums and things have improved greatly.

""You are not entitled to anything, Wizards is providing you with a service which you would not otherwise have... Simple as that...

You're right. We shouldn't be even remotely upset. I mean, many of us only went out to buy the books because of DDi. Why should we be upset about not having DDi right now? Honestly... I feel silly now. We're not paying for it right now, but we will be in a month. We shouldn't be upset about getting less than half the deal at all now should we? I feel so, so silly.

"I'll stop myself there before I break the CoC

You already did it seems.
Wow. I just took that as a huge "#$@^ YOU". I really don't appreciate that. If you honestly feel like we're just whining about the whole thing then maybe you should do some research about exactly what everyone on these forums has had to put up with to try and get some answers involving DDi. Granted, on the whole the community guys have done a lot better recently (IMO) and some people, like WolfStar, are satisfied with what Randy releases every week. Others aren't so satisfied. I'm really just happy that as a community, we've gotten a few things to change and by voicing some of our disdain for the happenings lately in the "customer service" (this isn't REALLY customer service, but I'm pretty sure most will get the idea if they've kept up with things) area of the forums and things have improved greatly.

"I don't appreciate wading through pages of crap to get to any substantial content on this forum. If it wasn't clearly a breech of CoC, I would state my opinions more clearly, trust me. It is this crap right here that just pisses me off about our idiotic society. I hope WotC does what I do when they see people gather together and whine like this, gloss over and brush them off, in favor of constructive criticism. I know there are people out there dishing it, I've seen it, it helps to be constructive, unless the people you're talking to aren't being constructive in the first place."

"You see, I could be like most people and politely discuss how I dissent your point, and I would, if the majority of this forum weren't made of people like this... Instead, I treat you (a universal, general 'you' that means people that like to whine) with the same disdain with which you feel entitled to treat others."

"You know, the Golden Rule, 'do unto others...' You (once again, a general 'you') have unleashed a torrent of crap, which is clearly what you want in return. I guess I'm just a people pleaser..."


You're right. We shouldn't be even remotely upset. I mean, many of us only went out to buy the books because of DDi. Why should we be upset about not having DDi right now? Honestly... I feel silly now. We're not paying for it right now, but we will be in a month. We shouldn't be upset about getting less than half the deal at all now should we? I feel so, so silly.

"You should... DDi was not the purpose of the books... There was no contract, or guarantee of DDi. Just your own foolish sense of entitlement to something... Remove that sense of entitlement, and then think about it, have you lost anything? Yes, they are asking you to pay, a price which they have already said is only for the content which will be ready by next month... GOD FORBID!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WANT YOU TO PAY! FOR THEIR WORK?! It's... It's almost... as if, we lived in some sort of capitalism..."

"Get... over.... yourself..."
"Don't ask me about the way I type, at best, I'll ignore you (or have no intention of actually reading the thread I posted in again). If I respond, it will probably be sarcastic. I could explain it here, but really, why should I? I am asked often, and usually in a rude and condescending manner, and so, giving the answer here would only serve to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of stupid people I don't care to grant that benefit. Also, if it annoys you, just remember that somewhere out there, my spirits were lifted, because I really like annoying people that are close-minded enough to be annoyed by something as minor as that; not to mention, there are a good number of people on the internet who can't even bother to learn to write American English (or any other form of English, I can't make criticisms about languages in which I am not proficient) properly (people for whom it is their first language), and that is far more irritating, yet commonly accepted."
What's it like to never be disappointed in anything?
What's it like to never be disappointed in anything?

"Oh, I am consistently disappointed, by human beings... Our species is the saddest, most disappointing thing in the world. The thing is, by comparison, nothing even comes close to the disappointment I feel every day waking up in this society, and so, once I've dealt with that, I'm pretty much okay with anything."
"Don't ask me about the way I type, at best, I'll ignore you (or have no intention of actually reading the thread I posted in again). If I respond, it will probably be sarcastic. I could explain it here, but really, why should I? I am asked often, and usually in a rude and condescending manner, and so, giving the answer here would only serve to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of stupid people I don't care to grant that benefit. Also, if it annoys you, just remember that somewhere out there, my spirits were lifted, because I really like annoying people that are close-minded enough to be annoyed by something as minor as that; not to mention, there are a good number of people on the internet who can't even bother to learn to write American English (or any other form of English, I can't make criticisms about languages in which I am not proficient) properly (people for whom it is their first language), and that is far more irritating, yet commonly accepted."
"Oh, I am consistently disappointed, by human beings... Our species is the saddest, most disappointing thing in the world. The thing is, by comparison, nothing even comes close to the disappointment I feel every day waking up in this society, and so, once I've dealt with that, I'm pretty much okay with anything."

Edit: Okay, you know what, I apologize. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I snarked off in my last post, but that was unnecessary. So, enough: I'm frustrated in what WotC is delivering via DDI; you're frustrated by people being frustrated and overly demanding, but it doesn't have to be a battle.
"CONGRATULATIONS! You figured it out Mock. You found my nice button... I get that you're frustrated, no biggie, keep watching, I'm sure WotC will deliver in time. You want changes, don't demand them, ask... Be proactive, not aggressive."
"Don't ask me about the way I type, at best, I'll ignore you (or have no intention of actually reading the thread I posted in again). If I respond, it will probably be sarcastic. I could explain it here, but really, why should I? I am asked often, and usually in a rude and condescending manner, and so, giving the answer here would only serve to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of stupid people I don't care to grant that benefit. Also, if it annoys you, just remember that somewhere out there, my spirits were lifted, because I really like annoying people that are close-minded enough to be annoyed by something as minor as that; not to mention, there are a good number of people on the internet who can't even bother to learn to write American English (or any other form of English, I can't make criticisms about languages in which I am not proficient) properly (people for whom it is their first language), and that is far more irritating, yet commonly accepted."
"Oh, I am consistently disappointed, by human beings... Our species is the saddest, most disappointing thing in the world. The thing is, by comparison, nothing even comes close to the disappointment I feel every day waking up in this society, and so, once I've dealt with that, I'm pretty much okay with anything."

We encourage or discourage those around us. It's our choice really ;).
/\ Art
And now that that's resolved we can hopefully get, and remain on-topic.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

As someone who's seen/demoed/clicked on the Game Table, I can assure you it isn't vaporware.

va·por·ware (vā′pər wer′)

noun

a commercial software product that has received much advance promotion but whose ultimate appearance on the market has become doubtful because of continual delays
As someone who's seen/demoed/clicked on the Game Table, I can assure you it isn't vaporware.

It needs work, there's no doubt, but it also isn't at a stage where one would ball it up and throw it away either.

I tried it out at Gencon, and must say that I was impressed. I remain optimistic that it will be finished, and released. It looks and feels like a good tool for dnd. Just thought I'd throw in a positive comment, as they are very few these days.

there are a few things that I have issues with, but I will wait until release to rehash those, as they are unrelated to the actual release.
WolfStar76 mentioned that the project is apparently at a stage where it wouldn't be balled up and thrown out. Still, doesn't a prolonged development mean more and more money and time is being invested, day by day?

The question of whether it is vaporware or not doesn't seem to be about how far along is the project is, but rather how much longer they are able and willing to spend time and money on development. It's gotta be expensive, even for a big company.

Even with the setbacks, they must really have something solid or else they wouldn't continue spending the time and money. That's gotta be good news. I'm following it all with a casual interest but can't quite shelve my doubts as to what we'll ultimately see.
/\ Art
Even with the setbacks, they must really have something solid or else they wouldn't continue spending the time and money. That's gotta be good news.

Yeah, like Windows Vista.
Yeah, like Windows Vista.

Oh :D.

Guess that answers my question.
/\ Art
I know some people will probably jump all over me for saying this, but software dev can be extremely complicated, and riddled with problems that throw you straight back to the drawing board, even with the best team. Was WotC overly ambitious in forecasting a June launch for DDi? Definitely.

After the sh!t WotC has been through with this product though, I can't imagine it will go away. Launch before the end of the year? Probably not. But the drubbing they've received in the forums should probably keep them on task and terrified of the angry villagers that will come after them with torches and pitchforks if they don't deliver!
I know some people will probably jump all over me for saying this, but software dev can be extremely complicated, and riddled with problems that throw you straight back to the drawing board, even with the best team. Was WotC overly ambitious in forecasting a June launch for DDi? Definitely.

After the sh!t WotC has been through with this product though, I can't imagine it will go away. Launch before the end of the year? Probably not. But the drubbing they've received in the forums should probably keep them on task and terrified of the angry villagers that will come after them with torches and pitchforks if they don't deliver!

I might agree but there is already a history of lying about stuff to their customers...
va·por·ware (vā′pər wer′)

noun

a commercial software product that has received much advance promotion but whose ultimate appearance on the market has become doubtful because of continual delays

Right, and my reply is that there's no reason to be doubtful.

It's a pretty solid product. It could use some UI tweaking and there are a few crashbugs in place.

If they'd shown me a powerpoint, if they'd shown me an "empty shell" of a program, I'd be with you.

What they dhowed off at GenCon was a robust well-designed piece of software that just needs a good buff, polish, and some thorough testing to be ready for the public.

Granted, I'm just one guy - but I make my living with computers, so I know decent software when I see it.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

"Expect the worse, and hope for the best."

It's a cliche, sure, but it's also good advice for dealing with any corporation. Just remember, they're not there make you completely happy*, just happy enough to keep buying the products.

--Tom

*unless you're a shareholder
What they dhowed off at GenCon was a robust well-designed piece of software that just needs a good buff, polish, and some thorough testing to be ready for the public.

Granted, I'm just one guy - but I make my living with computers, so I know decent software when I see it.

As a fellow designer of software, who also saw the GenCon demos, let's just say opinions vary.
As someone who's seen/demoed/clicked on the Game Table, I can assure you it isn't vaporware.

It needs work, there's no doubt, but it also isn't at a stage where one would ball it up and throw it away either.

I don't think you would do that. As seen with every printed book for 4.0 that has very bad editing. (Just look at the Game update pages).

Pretty sad indeed. Just look at the print stuff (that they have been doing for years) and now you think something they haven't done before (the gaming table and etc) would be better?
Yeah, like Windows Vista.

I love my Vista. You must have a crappy or sub par machine if you thinking Vista doesn't work.
va·por·ware (vā′pər wer′)

noun

a commercial software product that has received much advance promotion but whose ultimate appearance on the market has become doubtful because of continual delays

Ive highlighted the text that proves that it does not fall under vapor ware category. Their has not been continual delays. Their has been 1 delay. that was at time of the core books releasing they didn't have it ready for whatever reason. They did not state a new release date so the product cannot be delayed at this point.

since you seem to be fond of definitions heres one for you that might help you understand the meaning a little better

con·tin·u·al [kuhn-tin-yoo-uhl]

–adjective

of regular or frequent recurrence; often repeated; very frequent: continual bus departures.
I remember in one of the interviews I watched, they stated that there would be NO subscription fee until everything from DDI was released. Now they are starting the subscription base program without all the tools.

That is where I feel let down. I know I won't be signing up for a subscription until everything is up and fully working.
I remember in one of the interviews I watched, they stated that there would be NO subscription fee until everything from DDI was released. Now they are starting the subscription base program without all the tools.

That is where I feel let down. I know I won't be signing up for a subscription until everything is up and fully working.

Also correct.

Used to be a YouTube vid from one of the conventions stating this as well, although I couldn't remember the name of it to save my life. Closest thing I can find in my bookmarks is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OFQt3aQTo Info's very outdated though. And subscription price was double back then. Still, I think I'd pay the $15 if it made the stuff come out on time. This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixHUK6FSI18 I don't like the sound of.


I'll definitely pay when everything's out and usable, but I don't feel like a beta is worth paying for. If I wanted to pay for access Beta Build's, I'd do so on Fileplanet, yah know?
"They also said that when the tools were not split up into two prices, the magazines and the tools, and everything was one lump $15/month. Now... it's not."
"Don't ask me about the way I type, at best, I'll ignore you (or have no intention of actually reading the thread I posted in again). If I respond, it will probably be sarcastic. I could explain it here, but really, why should I? I am asked often, and usually in a rude and condescending manner, and so, giving the answer here would only serve to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of stupid people I don't care to grant that benefit. Also, if it annoys you, just remember that somewhere out there, my spirits were lifted, because I really like annoying people that are close-minded enough to be annoyed by something as minor as that; not to mention, there are a good number of people on the internet who can't even bother to learn to write American English (or any other form of English, I can't make criticisms about languages in which I am not proficient) properly (people for whom it is their first language), and that is far more irritating, yet commonly accepted."
As a fellow designer of software, who also saw the GenCon demos, let's just say opinions vary.

Let me quantify that my opinion, in this case, is of the Game Table.

I also liked the Character Builder (especially knowing a few of the UI changes that are coming, thanks to a PM I got from one of the designers after I wrote my review - alas, I was asked not to quote him publicly (yes, this means it's an unconfirmed quote from an unconfirmed source that I could be making up. I can't offer proof otherwise, so feel free to doubt me - I would) ).

The Character Visualizer, I'll admit, was pretty "m'eh" - but as it's the feature I'm least interested in, this doesn't surprise me. It was pretty rough, and it's something I haven't been excited about anyhow.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

"They also said that when the tools were not split up into two prices, the magazines and the tools, and everything was one lump $15/month. Now... it's not."

The 15 dollars price is still for everything, they just created a package for those who aren't interested in everything else due to all the feedback and whining on the board. Geez now they are getting attacked for listening to the people on the boards.