Will there be a Dragon (and Dungeon) released in the first 10 days of Insider?

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To be perfectly frank, my subscription to D&D Insider is riding 100% on this.

I'm trying to maintain my hopefulness, but ever since WotC took both magazines back and made them e-zines content has been less than what it's going to take to fill the magazines on a monthly basis.

If what I've seen until now are what I should expect then there is no way I'm going to subscribe. If they can't get it together in the first 10 days of Insider, then I can only assume they won't be able to deliver on a regular basis and won't subscribe.
I'm hoping it will be, but frankly IMO they should have been demonstrating how well they could do the job since they started the online versions. If nothing else they could have published some of the articles about Eberron that Keith Baker has said he submitted for the old online supplements but which never showed up again. I'm hoping for something good, but I'm not expecting much.
First thing for people working on providing new features should remember: People hate change for the sake of change. They usually don't mind genuine improvements, but change just because it's change and therefore cool tends to get hackles raised. Second thing for people working on providing new 'improved' features should remember: It shouldn't be hard for users to figure out how to turn them off if they don't like them. Just because the programmer thinks he's had a great idea doesn't mean everyone else is going to agree with them.
based on the past



No
Considering that the trail period ezines have not been provided on time, as those that have been waiting are due 5 or 7, short of change in staff and material available it appears no ezine will appear in the foreseeable future.

"Past performance is an indication of future performance, unless you change yourself."

WotC, clearly has limited indication of changing themselves concerning past broken commitments. Thus it appears likely that seeing any compiled ezine once it goes fee on time a high odds bet within 10 days or 45 days.
Plans are always subject to change.
No, but so what? We know that D&D Insider isn't going to switch to subscription at all in June.
So what?

Are you serious?

They have had since last April's (that's 2007) announcement to get people to write for these "Mags". Some people have even submitted stuff (not you or I, but professional writers, including a certain founder of the Eberron campaign setting) and it has not been forthcoming.

The magazines, such as they are, have been going since October.

They promise more and more, but we get less and less (don't make me do a word count :D ).


My god man, what will it take for people to finally dismiss them? Once they are for $$$ are you going to give them a "ramping up period", will more excuses for their poor performance be forthcoming.

Read my sig. They promised certain things. They are nowhere close to meeting that promise.

Fortunately, the other part of my sig might point people to other (BETTER) options. Make your choice as you will, but it is foolish to pay for junk when you have much, much better options (that are consistent and available now).
Once they are for $$$ are you going to give them a "ramping up period"

No, but I'm not going to ***** about something I'm not paying for yet. The articles they are giving us are good. If they continue to be published at this rate once its gone to pay format, I won't be paying for them though. If they don't ramp up before they do switch (and we have no idea when they will), I won't be buying the magazines initially, but I will keep an eye on them to see if they are ramped up.

Similar to Dragon Magazine:Kobold Quarterly

And for Dungeon-y goodness, there's always:
Sinister Adventures: Dark Vistas (Nick Logue)

Except I don't see anywhere saying its going to switch to 4e.

The Open Gaming Project (Wolfgang Baur)

$30 for an adventure is a lot more then I'm willing to pay when I can get an adventure for $17 and that's in actual book format (I can't tell if by paying the $30 I get a "free" book sent to me here in Australia, but even so that's double the price).

Pathfinder

Ignoring the fact that Pathfinder won't be 4th Edition, I couldn't find any announced 4th edition products from Pazio yet.
I'll agree that the articles they're giving us are good. I've been pretty happy overall with just about all the feature articles (I've been personally less excited by the columns).

I'm just really dissapointed at how incredibly poor their total amount of trickled content is.

I want them to change this.

I hope they will change this.

I doubt they will change this.


You are right, most of the links in my sig are not (necessarily) 4th edition. There was/is a chance that kobold quarterly goes 4th, I'm not sure if it will or not. Most of the subscribers wanted it to be about half and half (from my reading of the posts on that board). I don't think the new license allows that.

The open gaming project does have a 4th edition adventure in the works. It costs $25 to become a patron of that.


I guess part of the point is that I was worried by your "so what" attitude because I think it would be a shame if WotC continued to put out poor amounts of content and people paid for it, while there are others who are out there placing a real priority on getting both quality and quantity out in a timely manner.


I personally am not "switching" to 4th ed. I will play it as well as 3rd, and 2nd.

I'm happy to get quality products for any edition...especially adventures....great stories NEVER become obsolete.
Hi all,

I'm hoping to be able to release the table of contents for the first issue of Dragon and Dungeon magazines within the next few days. This should give everyone a good idea of what to expect on D&Di come the launch of 4E. So please stay tuned. =)

-Mike
Hi all,

I'm hoping to be able to release the table of contents for the first issue of Dragon and Dungeon magazines within the next few days. This should give everyone a good idea of what to expect on D&Di come the launch of 4E. So please stay tuned. =)

-Mike

Correct Me If I am wrong, but how will that be different than from the Information released about all the Ezines and Never delivered or was not delivered in a timely manner.

Just releasing the information will not give us an indication of what to expect.

We have all read the Promises of greatness and seen the failure to deliver.
Correct Me If I am wrong, but how will that be different than from the Information released about all the Ezines and Never delivered or was not delivered in a timely manner.

Just releasing the information will not give us an indication of what to expect.

We have all read the Promises of greatness and seen the failure to deliver.

yeah but this time someone said it would be a good example of what we should expect from D&DI... you know, like they said last time. i think the please stay tuned bit at the end was the real message. how long do we need to stay tuned to see this thing released according to the schedule they laid out for it?

i get the impression that this thread was not read prior to gamer_zero's post. it seems the only thing that gets released on time is the table of contents.
yeah but this time someone said it would be a good example of what we should expect from D&DI... you know, like they said last time. i think the please stay tuned bit at the end was the real message. how long do we need to stay tuned to see this thing released according to the schedule they laid out for it?

i get the impression that this thread was not read prior to gamer_zero's post. it seems the only thing that gets released on time is the table of contents.

If I recall correctly we are still waiting for a table of contents for the only ezine released. Clearly we are waiting for other ToC of the published, but not yet compiled ezines.

OK, I found a table of contents for Dragon 360 at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071214 however still waiting for a few others.

It is not right to blame the messenger, but hope appears to be a large factor of planned releases.
Plans are always subject to change.
Hi all,

I'm hoping to be able to release the table of contents for the first issue of Dragon and Dungeon magazines within the next few days. This should give everyone a good idea of what to expect on D&Di come the launch of 4E. So please stay tuned. =)

-Mike

However, next year, as soon as the powers-that-be will allow, I'll be posting a copy of our Table of Contents for the first 4th Edition issue. It will reveal a lot about the magazines come 4th Edition.

---From the 12/21/07 Dragon Editorial: "Where's the Beef?" -a mere 6 months ago

No rush.

It's only coming out in what, 3 days--at the beginning of June? Or is it 9 (charitably)--when the books are officially released?

Oh wait, it is already late (surprise):
The last 3rd Edition issue of Dragon rolls out in the next several weeks. This issue, we’re stretching into the middle of May, when we’ll launch the first magazine content for the 4th Edition of D&D.

---From the Dragon 363 intro page.



That was a heck of a preview.



Can I assume we'll be getting parts 2 and 3 of Touch of Madness so we can have:
the chance to wrap up your 3rd Edition campaign before 4th Edition arrives.

---From the Dungeon 153 intro page

And get City Chase before you switch to fourth edition, since:
As part of this conversation, we also proposed a little contest we were interested in hosting, as Dungeon makes the transition from 3.5 to 4th Edition—involving the best adventures our freelancers have always wanted to write for 3rd Edition, but never had the chance.

---From the 1/24/08 "The Best Adventure I Never Wrote" article



Forgive me if I'm not brimming over with confidence.
I just read over my post, and I was a tad harsh.

I wanted to state that I don't mean to be harsh to the messenger (you've done nothing but try to be helpful)...but I guess I do mean to be harsh to the message.

The only consistency we've seen regarding the e-mags is that of inconsistency and poor effort/results regarding actually getting content out.

So, gamerzero, please know that those comments are not directed at you, but at the message that the mags are merrily chugging along and "ARE GONNA BE GREAT!"
I just read over my post, and I was a tad harsh.

Not harsh - realistic. DDI has failed to follow through on what they said they would do.

Correct Me If I am wrong, but how will that be different than from the Information released about all the Ezines and Never delivered or was not delivered in a timely manner.

GMZ has the good sense to say he is "hoping" to release the ToC. :D Less disappointment if he can't do so.
Well.. Hooray and Whup de doo.

Here are blurbs containing links to the table of contents for

Dragon:
Dragon #3644th Edition is finally here, and with it, the re-launch of Dragon! Check out the first articles for issue #364, which kicks off with a brand-new Demonomicon of Iggwilv article on Yeenoghu, and “Playing Warforged,” an article that builds on the information for the race presented in the 4E Monster Manual. If you can’t wait to roll up your first warforged character, or you’re itching to sick some gnolls on your PCs, you’ll want to take a look at issue #364. In the coming weeks, we’ll also feature articles on a cult of Orcus, identify new kobold variants, and even dip into D&D’s storied past with some lost hazards from the world of Dark Sun.

Dungeon:
Dungeon #155The first 4th Edition issue of Dungeon is here (#155), newly redesigned and updated! In “Heathen,” the PCs must track the steps of a lost paladin, who set out years before to destroy a dark cult threatening his order. And in “Sleeper in the Tomb of Dreams,” the PCs learn of an organization’s plan to awaken a slumbering evil from the Far Realm. Then check out our Eberron and Forgotten Realms conversion articles for Keep on the Shadowfell, which will give you everything you need to get your first campaign started in those settings. Plus, new installments of Save My Game and Dungeoncraft.

Thanks sooo much for those great articles we were promised (Cross City Race and parts 2 and 3 of Touch of Madness).
And where can we find these Additions of the EZINES...






I can't seem to find them yet





Its only 6 days into june
Dungeon:
Dungeon #155The first 4th Edition issue of Dungeon is here (#155), newly redesigned and updated! In “Heathen,” the PCs must track the steps of a lost paladin, who set out years before to destroy a dark cult threatening his order. And in “Sleeper in the Tomb of Dreams,” the PCs learn of an organization’s plan to awaken a slumbering evil from the Far Realm. Then check out our Eberron and Forgotten Realms conversion articles for Keep on the Shadowfell, which will give you everything you need to get your first campaign started in those settings. Plus, new installments of Save My Game and Dungeoncraft.

Aberzanzorax:
Thanks sooo much for those great articles we were promised (Cross City Race and parts 2 and 3 of Touch of Madness).

Ok... so they didn't keep their promises about 3.5 material. But it's all about 4e so I have faith they will keep their promises about 4e material.

Every month, Dungeon magazine presents 3 to 5 new D&D adventures designed for varying levels of play, as well as tips to improve your homebrew adventures and campaigns.

"Heathen" is one.
"Sleeper in the Tomb of Dreams" is two.
And, uh, um...
They have posted some articles for Dragon and Dungeon today... they say they will trickle out the content over the month and have a final, put together PDF for download at the end.

The articles I have read so far look VERY promising.

Generally I have found WOTC way more accommodating this edition than ever... many designers etc have answered specific questions we have asked on the message boards... I don't EVER remember getting this much response from Wizards. Maybe they are finally realizing they need to make us happy

I am cautiously optimistic about D&DI, and impressed that so far, stuff is happening. I am not too worried that none of the tools are out yet, as another poster said... its free. Until I start paying, I don't feel I have a right to anything.
Yeah, so far this looks extremely promising - I'm very curious to see what else gets added over the course of the month.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
The articles I have read so far look VERY promising.

Agreed. We get:
* a "new race" which seems quite comparable with a PHB race
* A new MM entry
* A sidetrek for an adventure
* 2 conversions of an adventure each with unique encounters.

We've also been promised 3 adventures, 2 locations, 2 organizations and some variations of an MM entry.

Will it be worth $10 a month? I don't think so. With the D&D game table it could definitely be worth that price, but I wouldn't say the magazines themselves are worth it.

I am not too worried that none of the tools are out yet, as another poster said... its free. Until I start paying, I don't feel I have a right to anything.

Agreed. However I won't be paying it if they try to charge full price before the game table is launched. I am somewhat worried they'll try to charge full price before the game table as well which i think would be a horrendous mistake.
I am somewhat worried they'll try to charge full price before the game table as well which i think would be a horrendous mistake.

The last Ampersand article addressed this. Looks like you needn't worry.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080507a
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

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I keep hoping that the pulling of Dragon and Dungeon was just the beginning of a REALLY bad dream, and that WoTC will pop up from behind a bush and say "Surprise!!! No 4th ed!! Fooled you!"

I can't say that I was impressed by the lack of articles and completely confusing end of one issue before another started (I think I saw one link to download a complete issue of Dragon, and none for Dungeon).

3.5 was an OUTSTANDING product. Please stop the nightmare and bring it back...
I keep hoping that the pulling of Dragon and Dungeon was just the beginning of a REALLY bad dream, and that WoTC will pop up from behind a bush and say "Surprise!!! No 4th ed!! Fooled you!"

I can't say that I was impressed by the lack of articles and completely confusing end of one issue before another started (I think I saw one link to download a complete issue of Dragon, and none for Dungeon).

3.5 was an OUTSTANDING product. Please stop the nightmare and bring it back...

4th edition promises to be as equally outstanding as 3.5. we played on tuesday night and, even though i got to run keep on the shadowfell, i was amazed at how smooth and quick things seemed to move despite our group working out a new edition and some significant changes.

still i think switching dragon and dungeon magazine from print to online joke was a bit of a mistake. at least if they were still in print and there was material ready it would be out by now.
I still wish we got the full content of the mag up-front.
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I still wish we got the full content of the mag up-front.

don't you know that, since the internet is where people come for information, it has to be dispersed in carefully timed increments to keep our heads from exploding from information overload?!

it's sad, but i think that the reason they don't release everything up front is so that you keep coming to the website to see the new content. too bad they can't consistently release according to their own schedule.
I still wish we got the full content of the mag up-front.

Come in on the 1st of July. If you're lucky you'll have a full mag.
Come in on the 1st of July. If you're lucky you'll have a full mag.

Based on what I just posted in another thread, June apparently ends July 4th *shrugs*

have a total of 19 listed articles. For the month June 6 - July 4 there are 13 M,W, & Fs so that is a about one article on each of those days with a few extra thrown in for good measure.

Plans are always subject to change.
its possible but dont expect much of a fight from the new dragons at their young form
3.5 was an OUTSTANDING product. Please stop the nightmare and bring it back...

All my 3E stuff is still on my shelf, what happened to yours?
We are still wainting on Insider, and do have Dragon articles.

However, that does not answer if there will be there within the first 10 days of insider.

We do know that Insider was NOt within the first 10 days of 4th edition.
So, Maltrok (the OP), are you in or out?

Is their release of Dragon up to snuff for you?

(It's been 10 days since the release of 4th edition).
So, Maltrok (the OP), are you in or out?

Is their release of Dragon up to snuff for you?

(It's been 10 days since the release of 4th edition).

I have to admit the few articles they've released have been good. I quite enjoyed them. But, we haven't received anywhere close to a full magazine yet. The good news is that you can tell from the articles that they plan on combining them into a single PDF, which is good.

If I had to go on what I've seen so far, I'd pick up the occasional Dungeon or Dragon, but not a subscription to DDI.

Luckily for them and me, it seems we all have a bit more time to live with each other before anyone is taking sides. =)

On a funny side note, I've still not received my pre-ordered copy from Amazon. They delayed me until July 21st. I was a bit late in pre-ordering though, I waited until Feb 19th. Thankfully my office mate, who ordered his on May 24th, already received his books. (I canceled my order and had Amazon send me the 3 separate books at the same price. Should be here today, I hope.)
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