Do I have to pay every month for the tools?

28 posts / 0 new
Last post
I'm not sure if I get it right. If I want to use the tools like that 3d dungeon mapper do I have to pay every month and if not do I loose the use of them. Or do I get to use them with the purchase of the books or what?
You have to subscribe to get access to the tools, if your subscription ends, your access ends.
yup... looking to tap into your continual income, just like the phone company, energy company, taxman and internet provider..

Me for one, wont let them.
But then, i wasnt too thrilled about killing off FR, destroying the dungeron and the dragoin magazines or turning dnd even more manga/wow either...
Nor to forget, i hate the living crap of the whole encounter system thingy. Adventures cannot be run with that.
Thanks for the answers. Though I'm sure I stumbled upon a FAQ that WoTC put out saying they would in fact let players use the Character Creator and DM tool kit(I think) with out a subscription. It was mostly the Table that would require the subscription since its mostly online anyway. Gawd I wish I could find that page today and post it. Well if I do ill will.

EDIT: Woot I found it! I was a little wrong. Its the Character Creator and the Dungeon Creator that is free. So its not too bad
What portions of D&D Insider will remain free after the preview ends?
Certain elements of the D&D Insider tools will remain free in limited use for non-subscribers. For example, non-subscribers can use the Dungeon Builder to create encounter maps and use their .jpgs in offline games. Subscribers will be able to load these maps directly onto the D&D Game Table. As another example, non-subscribers can use the Character Builder to manually input character information or print out 4th Edition character sheets.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dndifaq
You get a cut down version of the character creator and DM Tools.

If you aren't subscribed and you use the character creator it will for example just give you a feat name when you add it. If you are subscribed you will get the actual rules of that feat as well (even if you don't own the physical book).

The character creator for subscribed or not will support all books as they are released....

At least that's what they were most recently saying.
yup... looking to tap into your continual income, just like the phone company, energy company, taxman and internet provider..

Well it's either that or put out mediocre and redundant supplements every month.
I have been waiting to vent about this for awihle now......
Wizards you have made how much money just off of me buying almost every book there was for 3e and now we go to 4e, you make these mini's that are about as bad as buying magic cards .You seem never to get the cards/figures that you need. And now if we want to access the technology we have to pay 14 dollars. I do not mean to sound cheap, but after buying three books, the adventures, and the dm screen.
$40 x 3= 120 is b4 taxes
25 x3 = 75 ish
20 for the dm screen


Oh and then there are all the other books that are soon to follow that we will have to pay anywhere from 40 to 50 dollars.
A book a month at a mean price of 45 dollars x 12

plus the 14 dollars per month times 12.......by this time I have lost count but I do have my trusty calculator we are looking at around 915 dollars by this point b4 taxes, and the gas it takes to pick up the book from the book store.

915 dollars in one year IF my math is right, just from me!

now lets take what around 200,000 dms who will be buying all the stuff there is.
183,000,000 dollars. hmmmmmmm and to think that this is without the mini's!
I just wanted to vent, maybe you guys could give us a free book? a good movie about ummmmmm DRIZZT! I mean come on.
There are two problems with your rant.

1) The optional/supplemental books are. . . well. . . optional and supplemental. You're not required to buy them - you choose to buy them. You're owed nothing beyond the book you're choosing to buy.

2) Yeah, Wizards is making money. That's sorta what businesses do. Faulting a business for making money is. . . well, shortsighted.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

EDIT: Woot I found it! I was a little wrong. Its the Character Creator and the Dungeon Creator that is free. So its not too bad

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dndifaq

Just wanted to say thanks for the link. I'm curious about the Dragon/Dungeon portion of the D&DI, but was not fortunate enough to stumble across the FAQ. I could have actively sought it out of course, but my interest in the D&DI is more casual at this point ;). Thanks!

I'm still waiting (patiently ;)) to see how much the individual issues will cost. I wonder if they have to be bought together (both Dragon and Dungeon, as a set) or if I can really buy individual issues?
/\ Art
I hope everyone doesn't need to be a subscriber to access the online Game Table. I can understand if they require that at least one person has it. For example there could be a DM version that requires a subscription to D&D Insider to use and a player version that doesn't.

I'm confident a decent number of people will subscribe to the insider, but I doubt there will be a single D&D group where every member in the group has a subscription. Out group never had 2 issues of the same magazine, if one of us bought a copy of Dragon or Dungeon we'd just share it.

As the group's regular DM I plan to subscribe, but I doubt the rest of my group will. This specially concerns me, since its becoming increasingly difficult for us to travel and meet up at each others house when we have different work schedules live far away.
I hope everyone doesn't need to be a subscriber to access the online Game Table.

As the group's regular DM I plan to subscribe, but I doubt the rest of my group will. This specially concerns me, since its becoming increasingly difficult for us to travel and meet up at each others house when we have different work schedules live far away.

This is from the D&DI FAQ:

As a Dungeon Master, I plan on subscribing. Will all my players have to subscribe to receive benefits from the D&D Insider content and tools?

Your players who subscribe will also gain the full benefits of the D&D Insider features. We’re creating the D&D Insider experience to be as useful as possible to every player, not just every group. That said, some functionalities will be available without needing to subscribe; for example, we are planning that subscribers will receive a set number of Guest Passes for the D&D Game Table (and can purchase more) that they can provide to their players, allowing them to join an individual game session.
/\ Art
I have been waiting to vent about this for awihle now......
Wizards you have made how much money just off of me buying almost every book there was for 3e and now we go to 4e, you make these mini's that are about as bad as buying magic cards .You seem never to get the cards/figures that you need. And now if we want to access the technology we have to pay 14 dollars. I do not mean to sound cheap, but after buying three books, the adventures, and the dm screen.
$40 x 3= 120 is b4 taxes
25 x3 = 75 ish
20 for the dm screen


Oh and then there are all the other books that are soon to follow that we will have to pay anywhere from 40 to 50 dollars.
A book a month at a mean price of 45 dollars x 12

plus the 14 dollars per month times 12.......by this time I have lost count but I do have my trusty calculator we are looking at around 915 dollars by this point b4 taxes, and the gas it takes to pick up the book from the book store.

915 dollars in one year IF my math is right, just from me!

now lets take what around 200,000 dms who will be buying all the stuff there is.
183,000,000 dollars. hmmmmmmm and to think that this is without the mini's!
I just wanted to vent, maybe you guys could give us a free book? a good movie about ummmmmm DRIZZT! I mean come on.

It's not really as bad as all that though.

You can pay a lump sum for access to the virtual table and I believe cut your monthly cost to just 9.95, which ends up being a savings of about $60 a year.

Also buy your books from Amazon, if I'm not mistaken you can get the three core books for about $66. Sure that's before taxes but it's quite a bit better than going to the store to buy them.

As for minis, well they're optional right? As are any of the supplemental books truth be told. You can easily pick and choose and still have lots of material to use. In addition I think we all know that there will be a plethora of free internet resources coming out within the first few months of release. It's really not that bad at all
I did discover the treasure chest of Amazon. I will be using that to buy all of my books! I do not know why they need to charge for the ddi, it seems ludicrus.
Do not get me wrong if they keep the dragon/dungeon free then I am fine. However if they are taken away and put into the "tools" menu for ddi.
I will admit one thing I will probally try it for a month of two.

One other thing from above, they sound like politicians! it would benifit the players to have it.....Oh come on, answer the question with a simple yes or no. To me it sounds like they dont want to make everyone upset more than they already are? unless I am wrong here and they have given a honest answer.
I have been waiting to vent about this for awihle now......
Wizards you have made how much money just off of me buying almost every book there was for 3e and now we go to 4e, you make these mini's that are about as bad as buying magic cards .You seem never to get the cards/figures that you need. And now if we want to access the technology we have to pay 14 dollars. I do not mean to sound cheap, but after buying three books, the adventures, and the dm screen.
$40 x 3= 120 is b4 taxes
25 x3 = 75 ish
20 for the dm screen


Oh and then there are all the other books that are soon to follow that we will have to pay anywhere from 40 to 50 dollars.
A book a month at a mean price of 45 dollars x 12

plus the 14 dollars per month times 12.......by this time I have lost count but I do have my trusty calculator we are looking at around 915 dollars by this point b4 taxes, and the gas it takes to pick up the book from the book store.

915 dollars in one year IF my math is right, just from me!

now lets take what around 200,000 dms who will be buying all the stuff there is.
183,000,000 dollars. hmmmmmmm and to think that this is without the mini's!
I just wanted to vent, maybe you guys could give us a free book? a good movie about ummmmmm DRIZZT! I mean come on.

I know exactly what you mean. I have the same problem with Microsoft. Every few years they come out with a new OS, and new versions of Office, and I'm constantly having to upgrade! It's just not conceivable that I don't upgrade and buy every optional package that they have. That's not even to mention all of the other software packages, or those games published by Microsoft.

Those guys are costing me a fortune! With all of the operating systems I've bought in the past, and versions of Office that I've purchased, I should be totally entitled to be able to get X-Box Live for free. They've made enough money off me already, right? It doesn't matter that they provided me with specific services and products already, many of which were optional, right?
I have been waiting to vent about this for awihle now......
Wizards you have made how much money just off of me buying almost every book there was for 3e and now we go to 4e, you make these mini's that are about as bad as buying magic cards .You seem never to get the cards/figures that you need. And now if we want to access the technology we have to pay 14 dollars. I do not mean to sound cheap, but after buying three books, the adventures, and the dm screen.
$40 x 3= 120 is b4 taxes
25 x3 = 75 ish
20 for the dm screen


Oh and then there are all the other books that are soon to follow that we will have to pay anywhere from 40 to 50 dollars.
A book a month at a mean price of 45 dollars x 12

plus the 14 dollars per month times 12.......by this time I have lost count but I do have my trusty calculator we are looking at around 915 dollars by this point b4 taxes, and the gas it takes to pick up the book from the book store.

915 dollars in one year IF my math is right, just from me!

now lets take what around 200,000 dms who will be buying all the stuff there is.
183,000,000 dollars. hmmmmmmm and to think that this is without the mini's!
I just wanted to vent, maybe you guys could give us a free book? a good movie about ummmmmm DRIZZT! I mean come on.

OR. You could spend $66 at Amazon for the books. Make your own custom screen with all the rules that YOU need. Check the internet for adventures or, better yet, make your own.

Given an allowance of, oh let's be generous, $150 for other books that might interest you. That leaves you with around $700. With $700 you could have a subscription for D&Di for nearly SIX years.

That is, of course, excluding anything like your friends chipping in for books. I'm assuming that not EVERYONE you roll with requires a Manual of the Planes at all times.

Seriously...
Personally, you're not looking at it from a business's view. Like most Anime buyers, D&D buyers are almost exactly the same...not really price conscious. If you are a D&D fanatic, like myself, you will find the money to buy the next advancement of your addiction. If you are looking at the price and going...hmmmm that seems a little too much, then most likely your not as fanatical as you thought. Plus, most of the "extra" books are just that...extra and optional. Do you know how much play in your own created world and just the 3 core books you can truly get. I know several DM's that love to just use those books for gameplay only.
Still undecided whether I'll sign up for DNDI, but I'm curious if anyone knows whether you can download the pdf's of the books (or however they'll format it) if you've already purchased the actual books. The idea of having them on my computer as reference will make planning campaigns and referencing at a table with a laptop a lot easier, but I'd rather I can access offline rather then just online.

And yeah, the charge seems a bit much, and the fact that wizards plan to release new versions of the rulebooks each year seems a bit excessive, but for now I'll just get the core set and see what they bring to the table.
Still undecided whether I'll sign up for DNDI, but I'm curious if anyone knows whether you can download the pdf's of the books (or however they'll format it) if you've already purchased the actual books. The idea of having them on my computer as reference will make planning campaigns and referencing at a table with a laptop a lot easier, but I'd rather I can access offline rather then just online.

The original plan of including codes to unlock digital versions of the books for a heavily discounted rate has been dropped.

They've indicated that they will, indeed, still be selling PDF copies of the books, however, as this isn't tied to any physical product purchase, it's at whatever the full price of the PDF ends up being. (Much like if you buy two separate physical books).

Subscribers to DDI will have full-text access to the Ruled Compendium online. If you want to know how "Power X" works you can search on that term and get the full-text of the power back. Non-subscribers will have access as well, but they will only get returned a book and page number reference to lookup the answers themselves.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

I would have to say that some folks are missing something here. Unless I am wrong, I think it's been stated that you wont need to go out and buy a gazillion books a year. As a subscriber you will have ever published peice of reference material available to you through the tools and the DDI site. So if you pay for it up front...

For about $120 a year (the price of a couple of sourcebooks, a module or two, and a few packs of minis) you will get access to EVERYTHING WotC publishes for 4e, a virtual tool that makes minis unnecesarry, and a way to play not only with your friends close to home, but also those have moved far far away...

Sounds like a money saver to me...
Yeah, Wizards is making money. That's sorta what businesses do. Faulting a business for making money is. . . well, shortsighted.

Very true. However, they arre making it very expensive which may turn off their core consumer
Yes you are renting the software from WotC at a monthly rate.

There will be some portions that are always free, but those are not ocmpletely known yet. I think the ability to print character sheets will be free although it may only print page numbers for the books to require looking up anything, so it is also unknown it it wille ven calculate scores and such for you. At least it should provide for printing blank sheets, from what I understand.

So unlike AD&D Core Rules and that DMtools or whatever from codemonkey, There is currently no form of software you can buy to do these things for you. All electronic tools will be rented on a monthly basis.
You know...this is not much different than subscribing to Dragon and Dungeon from the days of old.... (I do miss those). We had to pay then for the content and so too we must pay now for the content. It is a smart business move on their parts because they no longer have to deal with the cost of publishing a magazine. For us...well I do have a printer.
Im not gona harp on this guy but i would like to point out that considering the rizing gass prices thees days the $14.00 per month supscription will be vastly less expencive than dryving however manny mils to meat up with friends. if you play once amonth and half to dryve more than 10 miles to meat with your buddies the cost of the subscription is about 50% cheaper than meating at a friends house. also Like the other fellow said. This is a monie making company and that is kindof the point. But the pay off for us is fuel savings. I dont know about you but i would rather spend my monie on something that is suposed to be fun than give it to thows damn oil tycoons anny day.
... and a few packs of minis) you will get access to EVERYTHING WotC publishes for 4e,...

You shouldn't include minis in the example, as the Minis are going to cost extra in DDI.
You know...this is not much different than subscribing to Dragon and Dungeon from the days of old.... (I do miss those). We had to pay then for the content and so too we must pay now for the content. It is a smart business move on their parts because they no longer have to deal with the cost of publishing a magazine. For us...well I do have a printer.

but you have to get both mags. I would only pick up dragon, not dungeon
Im not gona harp on this guy but i would like to point out that considering the rizing gass prices thees days the $14.00 per month supscription will be vastly less expencive than dryving however manny mils to meat up with friends. if you play once amonth and half to dryve more than 10 miles to meat with your buddies the cost of the subscription is about 50% cheaper than meating at a friends house. also Like the other fellow said. This is a monie making company and that is kindof the point. But the pay off for us is fuel savings. I dont know about you but i would rather spend my monie on something that is suposed to be fun than give it to thows damn oil tycoons anny day.

What kind of car are you driving?

By my calculation, if you're driving 10 miles, once a week to get to a game at 4.00 a gallon (just to keep things round) and you have an 'average' car that gets 20MPG in the city you should be paying... well 8 bucks a month in gas. Even a Hummer, the crown prince of Gas Guzzlers (tm) apparently gets 14.2 MPG in the city. This means it would cost you 11.27/month to get to your game.

Edit: Oh, wait. the 14.2 is apparently a 'turbo' hummer or some such... A gas Hummer (perhaps the 'turbo' is powered by fairy dust and wishes?) gets 6.8 mpg. This means it would cost you 23.53/month. Although, if you can afford a Hummer, you can probably afford a DDI subscription regardless.

One other thing you seem to be overlooking. Online gaming requires that people are able to understand what you are typing... You might want to work on that.
I have been waiting to vent about this for awihle now......
Wizards you have made how much money just off of me buying almost every book there was for 3e and now we go to 4e, you make these mini's that are about as bad as buying magic cards .You seem never to get the cards/figures that you need. And now if we want to access the technology we have to pay 14 dollars. I do not mean to sound cheap, but after buying three books, the adventures, and the dm screen.
$40 x 3= 120 is b4 taxes
25 x3 = 75 ish
20 for the dm screen


Oh and then there are all the other books that are soon to follow that we will have to pay anywhere from 40 to 50 dollars.
A book a month at a mean price of 45 dollars x 12

plus the 14 dollars per month times 12.......by this time I have lost count but I do have my trusty calculator we are looking at around 915 dollars by this point b4 taxes, and the gas it takes to pick up the book from the book store.

915 dollars in one year IF my math is right, just from me!

now lets take what around 200,000 dms who will be buying all the stuff there is.
183,000,000 dollars. hmmmmmmm and to think that this is without the mini's!
I just wanted to vent, maybe you guys could give us a free book? a good movie about ummmmmm DRIZZT! I mean come on.

Umm, I don't know about you, but wherever I get my stuff, it's NEVER been $40 bucks a book, or near that for anything else.

1 book = $30
1 Mini booster = $15
2 DM's screens in 1 pack = $10

so, 3 books x $30 = $90
2 mini's = $30
2 Dm's screens= $10
12 months at $14/mo = $168

Add that up, and it's $298 a year.

I see that you are expecting to buy a book every month...
11 (one month is already the Core books) x $30 = $330

$330 + $298 = $628, assuming you WANT to buy EVERY book that comes out.

Im not saying that's NOT alot, but it's nowhere near $915.

Also, DDI appears to me like it was intended to be DnD by itself, where you WOULDNT have to buy every book when it comes out, but to keep it all online. Meaning gas wouldn't factor in at all, and it would be...

$168 a year.

Now, that's with constant updates as each book comes out, so you wouldnt have to buy those.

I beleive $168 leaves some wiggle room compared to the $915 you were talking about. And if you had access to all the books online anyway, why would you need to buy ALL the new books in hard copy as they come out?
I won't be using DDI. With only 2 of the 6 in my group with broadband at home it isn't feasible for us to switch. I understand Wizards wants to make money but there just isn't enough value added services in DDI to warrant the 15 a month.
Sign In to post comments