on a complaining roll...

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What's up with this - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080401b? I know I'm not getting into the spirit of April Fool's day, but come on now. Time on your hands to create a brand new faux character sheet, but not enough time to compile articles into pdfs for Dungeon and Dragon...as promised last fall??

I'm not really just complaining for complaints sake either. I actually read the one compiled pdf from last year, but haven't kept up on the more recent articles. Please, compile what you've completed.
Agreed.

However, they're not reading this, and they frankly don't care. I wish they did, but they don't.

I'd wager my vorpal sword of "cutting through bullsh**" that no one from WotC responds.

They just don't care. Your post is worthless to them.

However, I think your post does have value. I think it is dead on, and is yet one more reminder of how pathetic, sub-par, and hodgepodge these so called "magazines" have become.

It is hard to believe that this is how far the magazines have fallen in the hands of the, what is it, "world leader of hobby gaming". I didn't know hobby gaming had sunk this far. Luckily, there are some QUALITY magazines to be found elsewhere.

Seems to me that people are wanting them to instantly change everything people have issues with, instead of changing the spots in the ACTUAL DDI come 4e. You know sorta like how paizo will be doing with PF RPG.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Seems to me that people are wanting them to instantly change everything people have issues with, instead of changing the spots in the ACTUAL DDI come 4e. You know sorta like how paizo will be doing with PF RPG.

While I don't agree with his tone, nor his opinion that WotC doesn't care, I will say that Aberzanzorax has been championing these changes for months.

There are a few new people on the bandwagon of late, but he's not one of them.
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Seems to me that people are wanting them to instantly change everything people have issues with, instead of changing the spots in the ACTUAL DDI come 4e. You know sorta like how paizo will be doing with PF RPG.

Instantly? Sure that would have been nice.

I would have settled for a month later. Or two.

I'm not sure waiting till the last minute to fix the problems that have been brought up is the best way to handle this.

Fixing the problems along the way would be nice especially if I were to pay for the service since I don't want to wait four or five months for them to implement a simple online fix while I'm paying for it.
If they fixed the problems, it would give more confidence that their claims of the final product being better had value.

One of the justifications we were given for canning the paper copy was to provide a better service - I'm not seeing that at all. Yet WotC expects me to fork out precious $$$ on faith that the final product will be worth my precious $$$.

In the past I would buy Dragon and Dungeon by browsing them first, now I need to buy them on faith - right now WotC's approach hasn't given me reason to have a lot of faith.
There's a tiny spark of optimism in me that makes me reeeeaally hope that this will eventually be a case of "New Coke". Part of me hopes that WotC killed our beloved mags knowing that there'd be much ire and anger from it's customer base towards the new electronic format, that when they release the 4e versions of D&D print magazines that everyone will be delighted to have them back in any form. Sadly, I don't truly believe that will be the case.
There's a tiny spark of optimism in me that makes me reeeeaally hope that this will eventually be a case of "New Coke". Part of me hopes that WotC killed our beloved mags knowing that there'd be much ire and anger from it's customer base towards the new electronic format, that when they release the 4e versions of D&D print magazines that everyone will be delighted to have them back in any form. Sadly, I don't truly believe that will be the case.

unfortunately, it seems they are far too invested in their new electronic initiative to have any chance of going back to the print magazines. they would need a far larger staff than what they have now to accommodate print magazines again and that's even operating under the assumption that they would be able to resume their place on the shelves come their new release, by the time 4th edition hits the shelves it would have been nine months since they were there last. that coupled with the fact that the people in charge are wholly devoted to an online release for these magazines means that the print version won't be back.

i think the most that can be hoped for now is that they dedicate a team to releasing quality material on time for when people have to pay for it.
If only they seemed "wholly devoted to an online release" through their actions with the online magazines atm.

At least 4E information is flowing now.
I have to agree with the feeling that they are not devoted to the e-release of the magazines. I was willing to give the benefit of a doubt earlier while they were in "develop" stages but with the release of 4E less than 2 months away, they should be well past those stages. I have not seen a new adventure released for Dungeon in almost 1 and 1/2 months. And most of the ones released since they killed the paper mag. have been for mid-level pcs. Worthless to a new campaign and no challenge to my players with their epic levels. So much for using Dungeon to develop a campaign anymore, of course now I have gotten use to writing my own, so who needs to spend the cash when the time comes.

Sigh... yet another joy of my life delegated to memory.
So much for using Dungeon to develop a campaign anymore, of course now I have gotten use to writing my own, so who needs to spend the cash when the time comes.

i wonder how many people would agree with this sentiment? even though, unfortunately, it will have no impact on the decision to bundle the magazines online with the electronic tools. it'll probably become an underutilized tool that had the potential to be awesome. i applaud the decision to pull the license back and do absolutely nothing with it but irritate a bunch of loyal readers. it showed me that i can get by without it. someone tell me again why this was such a stellar idea? no really, i'll wait.

even in hindsight i can't understand why they decided to do things this way.
I sure hope that once 4E is out the gate, that they can put more resources torward this. At present, it isn't going to be worth the $10 a month as part of DDI (and yes, this would be the only thing I would care about from DDI before people jump in and say that there are other things of value... there are... just not to me)
At present, it isn't going to be worth the $10 a month as part of DDI (and yes, this would be the only thing I would care about from DDI before people jump in and say that there are other things of value... there are... just not to me)

Ditto.

And this is coming from someone who has spent more than $3000 on d&d since 3.0 debuted.


If it's worthwhile, I'll likely buy it.

I still won't buy cr@p, no matter how cheap.
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Yes,

Z.

Z indeed.
If it's worthwhile, I'll likely buy it.

I still won't buy cr@p, no matter how cheap.

How true.

I have actually deleted the WOTC website and Gleemax from my favs, but came back to Dungeon (after about a month and a half) just to see if there were any updates as of yet. Nope. No updates... still disappointing.

Just leaves me wondering why I came back in the first place.
I have actually deleted the WOTC website and Gleemax from my favs, but came back to Dungeon (after about a month and a half) just to see if there were any updates as of yet. Nope. No updates... still disappointing.

I feel the same way. Though I haven't deleted the page I have reduced the page to one of the pages I only visit every couple of months.

Honestly I dont see myself using the DDI features much. The mags are really the only things of value (to me) in this DDI package. I'm looking forward to the 4th edition, and I like the changes presented so far but they are really losing my interest in the online department.

I understand the efforts of deadline vs. design. I understand that they are likely just NOT dedicating much time into the currently FREE product due to these constraints but come on. There is absolutely NO reason they cant have someone pop in here or put up an article about WHY the delays and WHAT exactly they are doing during our "lose our faith" waiting period.

Come on WOTC, wtf?
Yes,

Z.

Z indeed.

You rang?
I feel the same way. Though I haven't deleted the page I have reduced the page to one of the pages I only visit every couple of months.

Honestly I dont see myself using the DDI features much. The mags are really the only things of value (to me) in this DDI package. I'm looking forward to the 4th edition, and I like the changes presented so far but they are really losing my interest in the online department.

I understand the efforts of deadline vs. design. I understand that they are likely just NOT dedicating much time into the currently FREE product due to these constraints but come on. There is absolutely NO reason they cant have someone pop in here or put up an article about WHY the delays and WHAT exactly they are doing during our "lose our faith" waiting period.

Come on WOTC, wtf?

I think that the lack of communicating with the "complaining readers" of dragon and dungeon magazine is more a matter of avoiding the reminder that things didn't pan out as they had expected with the switch to online than excessive time constraints. I'd hazard a guess that nobody wants to respond to any of the stuff going on with the magazines (e-magazines?) because the initial reaction was so bad (but expected if you read some of the earlier comments).

To address the most common response of "don't complain, it's free" I would like to note that we are only complaining because we would have happily continued to pay for the magazines until they decided to go online. I can only speak for myself, but I didn't cancel my subscriptions when they announced the cancellation. I am also willing to bet that a lot of other people didn't either.
... I had just over FOUR years of subsciptions paid for. I too would have gladly paid for the remainer of the time from then to now.