Mac Friendly?

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Over the years I've seen a surprising lack of MAC support on any RPG-related software. Everyone in my gaming group, myself included, would hope the Insider tools (all of them) are totally usable by any MAC user out there. Otherwise, WOC will be missing out on a large amount of subscription fees from the Apple crowd. Anyone know whether the tools on Insider will be both PC and MAC friendly?
Over the years I've seen a surprising lack of MAC support on any RPG-related software. Everyone in my gaming group, myself included, would hope the Insider tools (all of them) are totally usable by any MAC user out there. Otherwise, WOC will be missing out on a large amount of subscription fees from the Apple crowd. Anyone know whether the tools on Insider will be both PC and MAC friendly?

Just PC compatible at launch; they plan to look into Mac compatibility later on.
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated...

I guess WOC doesn't want my money until "later on".
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated...

I guess WOC doesn't want my money until "later on".

Just common sense on their part. You milk the huge cow first... :P
My machine's propably too old to run those cool gadgets anyways, so I don't mind waiting until I get an Intel-mac and... eww... install windows on it...

The Greendale Campaign

 

I was there at the dawn of the Third-and-a-Halfth Age of Dungeons & Dragons. I saw action during the Crisis of Infinite Foundations, stood on the ramparts of the Citadel of Mirth, delved deep into the debauchery of the Forum of the Adult, and fought alongside the Infernal Bovine on the fields of the Eberron War. I weathered the Ponystorm. I witnessed as the orcs came for the wizos, and I wept mightily. I saw the realm crack as the Fourth Age came upon us, and I witnessed the eldritch tendrils of the dread Gleemax. Now I watch as the Meta Wars ravage the land as the Fifth Age is dawning. I have walked these Boarderlands for many a long year, and bear many scars in my soul. Yet I remain the White Sorcerer, ever in your service. TWS out.

Wouldn't it make sense to milk both cows? They'd end up with more milk. I can think of any number of internet-based programs out there that are for both PC and MAC. Would it take a little more time and money? Yes. Would it greatly increase their profit? YES. Would it allow gamers with a MAC a reason to pay for Insider and the books themselves? YES. I honestly might not buy the 4th ED books due to this lack of service. I understand it isn't a necessary component, but if I want talent trees and streamlined rules I can keep playing Star Wars Saga Edition. And if they aren't going to put the time and effort into this set of online tools so that all of their loyal customers can use it, then are they really going to put the time and effort into keeping the programs themselves up and running? WOC has a bad track record in terms of hyping the next "great thing" only to completely forget about it a few months later. Especially when it comes to their electronic wares. If it's such a cool, new set of programs that are great for every gamer shouldn't every gamer be able to use it without having to buy a new computer, installing a new operating program or waiting some lengthy, undefined period of time?
Myself and a friend are both Mac users and long-time players. Support us Wizards!
Myself and I friend are both Mac users and long-time players. Support us Wizards!

Second!
Unfortunately they would rather not. Apparently the fact that Intel-Macs can "run Windows" is enough for them and many companies. Which completely ignores the fact that Windows does not come pre-installed on an Intel-Mac. Frankly I would rather support Non-WotC alternatives at this point. Battlegrounds: RPG Edition and RPTools.net are two cross platform alternatives come to mind for substitute Virtual Table-tops.

Also making the Non-VT apps Windows only is a further blow. Why should I pay full price or a service that I will not get full value from? Especially one that is based on a monthly fee. While I may not have been able to use 100% of old print Dragon Magazines I could eventually make use of that investment months or years later. In a monthly fee subscription service if I don't get 100% return that month then I didn't get my moneys worth or even what I payed for, and I never will.

I say forget Wizards support for the Virtual RP experience because WotC has never made or maintained a good software product. Ditch them now before you get burned. They will also have problems keeping up to date with advances in communication technology and will we will be left with a service that is inadequate and out of date.
Wouldn't it make sense to milk both cows? They'd end up with more milk. I can think of any number of internet-based programs out there that are for both PC and MAC. Would it take a little more time and money? Yes. Would it greatly increase their profit? YES. Would it allow gamers with a MAC a reason to pay for Insider and the books themselves? YES. I honestly might not buy the 4th ED books due to this lack of service. I understand it isn't a necessary component, but if I want talent trees and streamlined rules I can keep playing Star Wars Saga Edition. And if they aren't going to put the time and effort into this set of online tools so that all of their loyal customers can use it, then are they really going to put the time and effort into keeping the programs themselves up and running? WOC has a bad track record in terms of hyping the next "great thing" only to completely forget about it a few months later. Especially when it comes to their electronic wares. If it's such a cool, new set of programs that are great for every gamer shouldn't every gamer be able to use it without having to buy a new computer, installing a new operating program or waiting some lengthy, undefined period of time?

To stay with the cow milking analogy - it would take more manpower to milk two cows at once. So you get more milk, but have to pay more wages.

Would it take a more time and money? YES. Would it increase their income? Yes. Would it greatly increase their profit? No.

In the long run, it makes sense to have a Mac (and Linux) version. Short term, maybe less so.
Also making the Non-VT apps Windows only is a further blow. Why should I pay full price or a service that I will not get full value from? Especially one that is based on a monthly fee. While I may not have been able to use 100% of old print Dragon Magazines I could eventually make use of that investment months or years later. In a monthly fee subscription service if I don't get 100% return that month then I didn't get my moneys worth or even what I payed for, and I never will.

We have no envidence that anuthing but Character Creator and Game Table will be a DirectX, Windows client. The rest of the offering could will be wrapped up in a web (browser) application. Hopefully they'll have fees that reflect what you can actually use. The sky is not falling yet.

I say forget Wizards support for the Virtual RP experience because WotC has never made or maintained a good software product. Ditch them now before you get burned. They will also have problems keeping up to date with advances in communication technology and will we will be left with a service that is inadequate and out of date.

Well, rejoice in that fact that WotC is not making this software product then. It's being built by Radiant Machine, the game division of SolutionsIQ. Look at some names on the RM web page. (http://www.radiantmachine.com/team.html) Any of them look like capable individuals to you? ;)

I don't think this prediction will come true either.
We have no envidence that anuthing but Character Creator and Game Table will be a DirectX, Windows client.

I would think the Character Creator wasn't DirectX, unlike the Character Visualizer.

———

They have their reasons for not having an immediate Mac port. From what I understand they're pretty good reasons, and not just "Neener neener, just boot Windows!"

The Greendale Campaign

 

I was there at the dawn of the Third-and-a-Halfth Age of Dungeons & Dragons. I saw action during the Crisis of Infinite Foundations, stood on the ramparts of the Citadel of Mirth, delved deep into the debauchery of the Forum of the Adult, and fought alongside the Infernal Bovine on the fields of the Eberron War. I weathered the Ponystorm. I witnessed as the orcs came for the wizos, and I wept mightily. I saw the realm crack as the Fourth Age came upon us, and I witnessed the eldritch tendrils of the dread Gleemax. Now I watch as the Meta Wars ravage the land as the Fifth Age is dawning. I have walked these Boarderlands for many a long year, and bear many scars in my soul. Yet I remain the White Sorcerer, ever in your service. TWS out.

I would think the Character Creator wasn't DirectX, unlike the Character Visualizer.

———

They have their reasons for not having an immediate Mac port. From what I understand they're pretty good reasons, and not just "Neener neener, just boot Windows!"

The only two Direct X based applications are the D&D game table and the Character visualizer.

The other D&DI applications (dungeon builder, Character sheet, Encounter builder) will be windows based, but not using DirectX.
I agree with OldTimer on the fact that I hope they at least set a different subscription fee for those of us who can't (or choose not to) use their software apps on D&DInsider. This seems like a "free" way to at least throw a bone to the Mac crowd.

One of my biggest fears with D&DInsider is that all the online articles and content that I enjoy is now going to be bundled behind the subscription fee. If my Mac can only run 10-40% of what D&DInsider can offer, that makes it simply not worth it at all.

Hopefully they'll be a significantly smaller fee to access all the online content, Dungeon, Dragon, and any Mac-friendly web-based things that we can use.
The only two Direct X based applications are the D&D game table and the Character visualizer.

The other D&DI applications (dungeon builder, Character sheet, Encounter builder) will be windows based, but not using DirectX.

Perhaps I am missing something, what use are (dungeon builder, Character sheet, Encounter builder) if Game Table or Character visualizer can not be used? Perhaps those elements can be downloaded, printed or useable in ways that does not require Game Table?
Plans are always subject to change.
The only two Direct X based applications are the D&D game table and the Character visualizer.

The other D&DI applications (dungeon builder, Character sheet, Encounter builder) will be windows based, but not using DirectX.

Ah, I didn't know it was split up in so many actual applications. Then those other three should be easy to run under Parallels on a Mac or even WINE on Linux.

Or, even better, to compile for native execution on MacOS/Linux... *hint, hint* :D
The other D&DI applications (dungeon builder, Character sheet, Encounter builder) will be windows based, but not using DirectX.

I assume that you will be able to port these over faster and easier than the Big Two? If not, why?

The Greendale Campaign

 

I was there at the dawn of the Third-and-a-Halfth Age of Dungeons & Dragons. I saw action during the Crisis of Infinite Foundations, stood on the ramparts of the Citadel of Mirth, delved deep into the debauchery of the Forum of the Adult, and fought alongside the Infernal Bovine on the fields of the Eberron War. I weathered the Ponystorm. I witnessed as the orcs came for the wizos, and I wept mightily. I saw the realm crack as the Fourth Age came upon us, and I witnessed the eldritch tendrils of the dread Gleemax. Now I watch as the Meta Wars ravage the land as the Fifth Age is dawning. I have walked these Boarderlands for many a long year, and bear many scars in my soul. Yet I remain the White Sorcerer, ever in your service. TWS out.

To stay with the cow milking analogy - it would take more manpower to milk two cows at once. So you get more milk, but have to pay more wages.

Would it take a more time and money? YES. Would it increase their income? Yes. Would it greatly increase their profit? No.

In the long run, it makes sense to have a Mac (and Linux) version. Short term, maybe less so.

Manpower? I'm sure the dozens of websites out there running digital avatars of their subscribers need just as much manpower and several are making a profit on web ads alone!

Even at $10 per month per person, that equals $120/year. For every 1000 people that subscribe they get $120,000 a year from Insider. I think we can all agree there will be more than a thousand subscribers. However many subscribers Insider will get, WOC expects to make a profit off this subscription service. That's after all of the development. If it's profitable to do it for PC's, why not MAC's? By the very fact that the concept and design has already been done, creating a MAC version would be cheaper to develop! Any model that makes a profit off PC can do it just as easily on MAC's.

And it isn't a matter of long term versus short term profits. If MAC users have to wait 6 months, a Year, or longer for their version to come out they probably won't buy it. MAC users love their machines and on the whole if a company forgets us we forget them. This isn't World of Warcraft we're talking about here. This isn't going to be some sweeping mass purchase/subscription item. This is a very niche market, and you want as many cows as possible. Especially when those cows have enough milk to buy those expensive MAC's.
Manpower? I'm sure the dozens of websites out there running digital avatars of their subscribers need just as much manpower and several are making a profit on web ads alone!

Even at $10 per month per person, that equals $120/year. For every 1000 people that subscribe they get $120,000 a year from Insider. I think we can all agree there will be more than a thousand subscribers. However many subscribers Insider will get, WOC expects to make a profit off this subscription service. That's after all of the development. If it's profitable to do it for PC's, why not MAC's? By the very fact that the concept and design has already been done, creating a MAC version would be cheaper to develop! Any model that makes a profit off PC can do it just as easily on MAC's.

And it isn't a matter of long term versus short term profits. If MAC users have to wait 6 months, a Year, or longer for their version to come out they probably won't buy it. MAC users love their machines and on the whole if a company forgets us we forget them. This isn't World of Warcraft we're talking about here. This isn't going to be some sweeping mass purchase/subscription item. This is a very niche market, and you want as many cows as possible. Especially when those cows have enough milk to buy those expensive MAC's.

So in that vein should I hold off on moving my campaign forward into 4th ed because my main machine runs linux instead of Windows? Should I stop my players from enjoying the new rules because I have a small hiccough of running SOME of the online tools?! You make no sense man ... not to mention ... you're a mac user ... I'd think (like myself) you'd be used to this by now :D

Grow up ... upgrade or don't but let the group decide ... and have fun :D

Kleedrac
As a Mac user, I'd like to bring a different opinion to this discussion.

With two exceptions, most of the new Intel-based Macs support DirectX. They either have Radeon graphics chips or something even better.

To whit:
iMac
Mac Pro
MacBook Pro

The only ones that I can not confirm (but might) are the MacBook and Mac Mini. And if your only computer is one of those, you probably realized it wasn't a great gaming system when you bought it.

On the other hand, Intel is supposedly working on releasing a driver for the graphics chips in those by Q1-2008 that will allow them to support DirectX 10 (running Vista in BootCamp, natch). That should be in plenty of time for the D&D gametable stuff.

I've been clinging to my old G4 Titanium and waiting to splurge on a new Intel-based Mac. Since it's my primary computer, I'm thinking either a new iMac, a 15" MacBook Pro, or both. If the D&D content is Windows only to begin with, that just gives me a reason to load Windows Vista on the machine (with Bootcamp) - something I might not otherwise bother to do.

Being "up" with computers means constantly upgrading. Deal with it.
Uhm... it's not about upgrading. I don't mind upgrading my machine to meet the specs. What I bristle at is having to pay extra money to microsoft just to use something that should be cross platform right out of the gate.

I do understand why the decision for Windows only support was mad. I just don't agree with it. Also, it means I am far less likely to buy into the DDI at all. This saddens me because when I saw the preview at GenCon I was really excited about it. I WANT these tools... but I can't have them unless I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars on something I don't need at all.

This also makes me wonder if the rest of the Gleemax, digital initiative will be windows based. If so, that means Gleemax will also be less useful to me.

--sam
So we the consumer should bear the burden of WOC's lack of support? Doesn't entice me to buy..

...And it's not upgrading. It's purchasing a whole new operating system. Isn't the point of buying a Mac so you don't have to run Windows?

And it doesn't mean you have to hold off on moving to 4th Edition. You can do anything you'd like. As can I. And I will probably end up buying 4th Edition, but this slight puts a serious question mark on that. When I plop down my hard-earned money for the 4th Edition books, why is it that I get less for my money simply because of the computer I use? You think the cost for books won't rise because of the additional online content? That's wasted money in my mind.

WOC can forget about any Mac users paying for Insider - it's almost useless without the gaming tools. We'd simply be paying for what we get free right now. It's a joke. And this isn't some stand-alone video game we're talking about here. That, all Mac owners are used to. But, this is marketed as online tools to enhance and expand on the books. You can go out and find similar softwares today that offer cross-system functionality. It's pretty bad business practice to leave many customers out in the cold when you have the means to do otherwise. Maybe you've got some giant vault of cash to swim through like Scrooge McDuck, but the rest of us aren't going to go out and spend hundreds of dollars to buy a new computer or overhaul the one we have simply because WOC doesn't care about us.
Manpower? I'm sure the dozens of websites out there running digital avatars of their subscribers need just as much manpower and several are making a profit on web ads alone!

Even at $10 per month per person, that equals $120/year. For every 1000 people that subscribe they get $120,000 a year from Insider. I think we can all agree there will be more than a thousand subscribers. However many subscribers Insider will get, WOC expects to make a profit off this subscription service. That's after all of the development. If it's profitable to do it for PC's, why not MAC's? By the very fact that the concept and design has already been done, creating a MAC version would be cheaper to develop! Any model that makes a profit off PC can do it just as easily on MAC's.

And it isn't a matter of long term versus short term profits. If MAC users have to wait 6 months, a Year, or longer for their version to come out they probably won't buy it. MAC users love their machines and on the whole if a company forgets us we forget them. This isn't World of Warcraft we're talking about here. This isn't going to be some sweeping mass purchase/subscription item. This is a very niche market, and you want as many cows as possible. Especially when those cows have enough milk to buy those expensive MAC's.

I'm sorry, but you're calculations make no sense at all to me. And the answer to "If it's profitable to do it for PC's, why not MAC's?" should be quite obvious - it's a much smaller market.

You're whole post just says one thing to me "I don't understand and I don't care about the economic bit - I just feel offended by the fact that they are not serving me". While I can understand your frustation, I can even better understand the business decision behind Wizard's platform choice.
Oldtimer, while I agree that it costs more to develop for cross platform compatibility, I'm not sure that it costs so much more to make unprofitable. Other companies have successfully done it... why not WotC. Making choices, like using DirectX instead of more cross platform friendly options is what will make it less profitable to switch later. If WotC had chosen to develop cross platform from the beginning, they would have minimized their costs along the way.

As Didier has stated, these are the reasons for going DirectX instead of a more cross platform friendly option... 1. They already had a DirectX engine collecting dust in-house. 2. Their market research told them that more gamers had Windows machines than Macs (Duh!).

Also, it's important to note that nowhere has Didier actually said that Mac support is in some development timeline. Right now, what we know for sure is that Mac support will not be part of DDI. We don't have any confirmation that Mac support will come in the future.

So... it's not that we're left out of the DDI party at the beginning. It's more like we'll never be let into the party... ever. Because, really... if we're not worth it now... we'll never be worth it in the future. (OK... even I admit that's a little hyperbolic, but you get my drift).

--sam
Oldtimer, while I agree that it costs more to develop for cross platform compatibility, I'm not sure that it costs so much more to make unprofitable. Other companies have successfully done it... why not WotC. Making choices, like using DirectX instead of more cross platform friendly options is what will make it less profitable to switch later. If WotC had chosen to develop cross platform from the beginning, they would have minimized their costs along the way.

Let's agree on "less profitable" then. ;)

How many 3D games do you actually see developed for cross platform? What would you use instead of DirectX? OpenGL? But there aren't that many game developers with a good knowledge of OpenGL. Just the scarcity of professionals would drive up the costs.

Neither you, nor I, know exactly how much "less profitable" it would be to do a cross platform development instead. Obviously WOtC thought it was less than desirable.

As Didier has stated, these are the reasons for going DirectX instead of a more cross platform friendly option... 1. They already had a DirectX engine collecting dust in-house. 2. Their market research told them that more gamers had Windows machines than Macs (Duh!).

Also, it's important to note that nowhere has Didier actually said that Mac support is in some development timeline. Right now, what we know for sure is that Mac support will not be part of DDI. We don't have any confirmation that Mac support will come in the future.

So... it's not that we're left out of the DDI party at the beginning. It's more like we'll never be let into the party... ever. Because, really... if we're not worth it now... we'll never be worth it in the future. (OK... even I admit that's a little hyperbolic, but you get my drift).

--sam

I think reason number 1 weighs in heavily. It doesn't make sense to scrap that value and start fresh. Unfortunately, that means that there's nothing implying that they'll ever do a Mac or Linux version. However, I'm hoping they will soon see D&DI as a success story and be willing to invest more in it.

I have friends that uses Macs too.
I'm sorry, but you're calculations make no sense at all to me. And the answer to "If it's profitable to do it for PC's, why not MAC's?" should be quite obvious - it's a much smaller market.

You're whole post just says one thing to me "I don't understand and I don't care about the economic bit - I just feel offended by the fact that they are not serving me". While I can understand your frustation, I can even better understand the business decision behind Wizard's platform choice.

I'm not quite sure why my calculations make no sense since it's basic math. Perhaps I'm not the one who lacks understanding. How is this for economics: demand, no supply. I think it's rather smug to claim I'm ignorant of economics and you've got the inside track when none of us but WOC have the facts. None of us knows what the Mac market is. WOC are the ones shelling out dough for market reports. From what I've read, WOC might not have even done any studies on the market. "Well we've got this Windows only program that'll save us some development costs lets use that." For all we know they didn't really study the impact in terms of subscribers at all. It's not a very good business practice, but not all companies practice good business. I think it's naive to say that the PC market is bigger. More than likely, but what about PC owners with outdated computers that can't run the latest windows? What about PC's running Linux? I find it ludicrous to assume that the Mac market must be non-existant simply because WOC forgot about us. Especially when so many programs are cross-platform these days.

To be honest, the lack of non-windows users would have to be enormous for them not to be able to recoup their costs in the long run. This is a subscription service after all. With all the books, minis, and now subscription fees I find it hard to believe they still wouldn't see black in the ledger while satisfying all their customers. It seems more like a matter of saving themselves a little work, and that's why I'm frustrated. In WOC's eyes I'm not worth the effort. It's pretty easy for you to talk all high and mighty on your Windows computer about WOC's wisdom, but its us the mac users who have been burned.
I'm not quite sure why my calculations make no sense since it's basic math. Perhaps I'm not the one who lacks understanding. How is this for economics: demand, no supply. I think it's rather smug to claim I'm ignorant of economics and you've got the inside track when none of us but WOC have the facts. None of us knows what the Mac market is. WOC are the ones shelling out dough for market reports. From what I've read, WOC might not have even done any studies on the market. "Well we've got this Windows only program that'll save us some development costs lets use that." For all we know they didn't really study the impact in terms of subscribers at all. It's not a very good business practice, but not all companies practice good business. I think it's naive to say that the PC market is bigger. More than likely, but what about PC owners with outdated computers that can't run the latest windows? What about PC's running Linux? I find it ludicrous to assume that the Mac market must be non-existant simply because WOC forgot about us. Especially when so many programs are cross-platform these days.

To be honest, the lack of non-windows users would have to be enormous for them not to be able to recoup their costs in the long run. This is a subscription service after all. With all the books, minis, and now subscription fees I find it hard to believe they still wouldn't see black in the ledger while satisfying all their customers. It seems more like a matter of saving themselves a little work, and that's why I'm frustrated. In WOC's eyes I'm not worth the effort. It's pretty easy for you to talk all high and mighty on your Windows computer about WOC's wisdom, but its us the mac users who have been burned.

I know that was basic math, but it was not leading anywhere - those where just numbers.

You still come off as frustration more than logic. You are sure that a Mac version is a good return on investment - how can you be sure of that? You just added up the income from 1000 fictional Mac subscribers, but have you any idea of the costs involved to develop and support a different platform? You say that it's naive to say that the PC market is bigger (than the Mac market), but there are many, many markets reports showing that Windows far outnumber MacOS. Windows, not PCs.

I'm not assuming "that the Mac market must be non-existant simply because WOC forgot about" it. I am saying that it's much smaller than the Windows market. And I can give numbers to back that up. Your statement "None of us knows what the Mac market is." is not true, unless you want the market size down to each and every single customer.

Are really so many programs cross-platform these days? 3D games? And that would prove what? That there is no extra cost in developing, and supporting, a cross-platform product?

I'm not being high and mighty on my Windows computer (well, I am on a Windows computer, but I could boot it up in Linux if you'd prefer that). I'm just saying that there's is nothing unreasonable in their decision. It's unfortunate, but hardly unreasonable.
I have friends that uses Macs too.

And therein lies the rub... You won't be able to play D&D via the Game Table with your friends (that use Macs). And that's the problem we have with it. It doesn't just affect the Mac users. It affects you too.

--sam
Perhaps I am missing something, what use are (dungeon builder, Character sheet, Encounter builder) if Game Table or Character visualizer can not be used? Perhaps those elements can be downloaded, printed or useable in ways that does not require Game Table?

This is a good question. In fact the reason we are not doing all these applications in one integrated software is to allow various degrees of accessibility and usefulness.

The character sheet application for example will allow you to print your character sheet, and this does not require having a machine supporting DirectX9 to that effect, like the game table application will require.

We are still working on the details of the functionalities specific to each of those, stay tuned on dndinsider.com for more information in the upcoming months.
I'm not being high and mighty on my Windows computer (well, I am on a Windows computer, but I could boot it up in Linux if you'd prefer that). I'm just saying that there's is nothing unreasonable in their decision. It's unfortunate, but hardly unreasonable.

You know what? You're absolutely right that this isn't a money issue, but one of frustration. It really "fries my grits" to be excluded. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether WOC is being unreasonable or not and leave it there. I don't think this argument over economic factors is going to get us anywhere. Besides, its ludicrous to be upset because a company won't let me spend my money. WOC is just aiding our frugality.



And no, I wouldn't want you to boot up Linux. No one should have to suffer that much. :D
WotC_DM, is WOC ever going to show us the love when it comes to Insider?
I can understand the lack of initial mac support. No problem. But Pelor help you if you leave it that way.

The Greendale Campaign

 

I was there at the dawn of the Third-and-a-Halfth Age of Dungeons & Dragons. I saw action during the Crisis of Infinite Foundations, stood on the ramparts of the Citadel of Mirth, delved deep into the debauchery of the Forum of the Adult, and fought alongside the Infernal Bovine on the fields of the Eberron War. I weathered the Ponystorm. I witnessed as the orcs came for the wizos, and I wept mightily. I saw the realm crack as the Fourth Age came upon us, and I witnessed the eldritch tendrils of the dread Gleemax. Now I watch as the Meta Wars ravage the land as the Fifth Age is dawning. I have walked these Boarderlands for many a long year, and bear many scars in my soul. Yet I remain the White Sorcerer, ever in your service. TWS out.

You know what? You're absolutely right that this isn't a money issue, but one of frustration. It really "fries my grits" to be excluded. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether WOC is being unreasonable or not and leave it there. I don't think this argument over economic factors is going to get us anywhere. Besides, its ludicrous to be upset because a company won't let me spend my money. WOC is just aiding our frugality.

Exactly. I cannot argue against your frustration, since that is very real.

I can only hope you'll enjoy playing 4e the old-fashioned way and think about how WotC made you save $10 per month. :D
As long as Dragon and Dungeon and all the bonus content for the books are Mac-compatible, I'll propably be subscribing.

The Greendale Campaign

 

I was there at the dawn of the Third-and-a-Halfth Age of Dungeons & Dragons. I saw action during the Crisis of Infinite Foundations, stood on the ramparts of the Citadel of Mirth, delved deep into the debauchery of the Forum of the Adult, and fought alongside the Infernal Bovine on the fields of the Eberron War. I weathered the Ponystorm. I witnessed as the orcs came for the wizos, and I wept mightily. I saw the realm crack as the Fourth Age came upon us, and I witnessed the eldritch tendrils of the dread Gleemax. Now I watch as the Meta Wars ravage the land as the Fifth Age is dawning. I have walked these Boarderlands for many a long year, and bear many scars in my soul. Yet I remain the White Sorcerer, ever in your service. TWS out.

As long as Dragon and Dungeon and all the bonus content for the books are Mac-compatible, I'll propably be subscribing.

Here's how I see it breaking down for Mac users... If you were a former subscriber to both Dragon & Dungeon, there is definitely value in subscribing to the DDI. If you just look at it on face value, your old subscriptions cost $6.50 per month (for both mags). The rumored price of DDI is $10 per month. So... yes, you're paying a little more for Dragon & Dungeon, but still less than if you bought them on the newsstand. There is still value there, just not as much as a Windows user.

Since I don't tend to DM, I never bothered with a Dungeon subscription before. I did, however, have a Dragon subscription. For me, there is a lot less value since half of the content (Dungeon) won't do me any good as a player. I think there is still value there for those that use all the content (DMs). For those of us that aren't DMs, the extra value would have come from the other apps which are obviously not compatible with our platform of choice.

It's still possible that WotC will hit a home run, and that the content for Dragon will prove to be so good that I'll subscribe anyway. Right now I doubt that, but you never know.

--sam
If you just look at it on face value, your old subscriptions cost $6.50 per month (for both mags).

Wow, is buying the magazines from an FLGS really that much more expensive than subscription? Here in the cold north, buying an issue of Dragon OR Dungeon costs nearly twice that amount.

The Greendale Campaign

 

I was there at the dawn of the Third-and-a-Halfth Age of Dungeons & Dragons. I saw action during the Crisis of Infinite Foundations, stood on the ramparts of the Citadel of Mirth, delved deep into the debauchery of the Forum of the Adult, and fought alongside the Infernal Bovine on the fields of the Eberron War. I weathered the Ponystorm. I witnessed as the orcs came for the wizos, and I wept mightily. I saw the realm crack as the Fourth Age came upon us, and I witnessed the eldritch tendrils of the dread Gleemax. Now I watch as the Meta Wars ravage the land as the Fifth Age is dawning. I have walked these Boarderlands for many a long year, and bear many scars in my soul. Yet I remain the White Sorcerer, ever in your service. TWS out.

Wow, is buying the magazines from an FLGS really that much more expensive than subscription? Here in the cold north, buying an issue of Dragon OR Dungeon costs nearly twice that amount.

Yeah... subscription for Dragon was $39 per year. The cover price was quite a bit more than that. The subscription was a great deal.

--sam
I just read this on Dave Noonan's blog:


This "lifestyle constraint" is why you can bet that when we get a digital game table for D&D, I'm going to be dual-booting my trusty Mac late at night. The computer aspects of 4e aren't for everyone. But us late-night, stuck-at-home guys are going to appreciate it.

Perhaps reports of no MAc love are incorrect? I sure hope so...
I just read this on Dave Noonan's blog:




Perhaps reports of no MAc love are incorrect? I sure hope so...

He means he's going to be "dual-booting" his poor, unfortunate Mac into Windows. That's after he steals a copy from his buddies at work (Windows is damn expensive retail), and installs it, ceding half his hard drive space to the beast. I hope he didn't plan on using any of his peripherals without a fight . . .

Sorry . . . I work at a college campus that is buying all Macs and running Windows on them to "save support." It's been nothing but mess.
Just confirming what dadocollin said. This is not Mac support. He's just running Windows on his Intel Mac.

--sam
Thanks, I couldn't tell what he was saying there. Some people (including me) have run two computers at once to perform separate functions. h well, guess I'm still not getting any Mac love from WOTC.
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