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In response to Apollo's Will.

I believe that all aspects of the game are included in the character builder application. You do not have to own every book for that. What you need to own the book for is just for the digital COPY of the book itself. If you do not own the book, you cannot use it as reference, that is all. The core mechanics (i.e. feats) are included in character generation (i.e. feat description, talents, powers, etc.) but nothing else is. No write up for the prestige class, race or other rules. Just the titles and uses. This is just my speculation though of course. I hop that helps.

Final Thought. You can create any character, just not read any book.

That is what I wanted to know :D. Thank you. That eases my mind and increases my hope for returning to the game with the ol' buddies, even when living far apart.
Yeah...the fact that it would CHANGE to everyone having to buy the same books is a deal breaker on the CC as far as I am concerned. I will do it by paper and not be happy about it. That is just ridiculous. If I want someone to join the group, they need $100 in books out of the gate. Ridiculous. I thought this was about getting people to start playing the game.

The sharing of the account thing doesn't work either unless you can revoke a book from an account and move it to another account later. This should be possible anyway since you may sell your books used. You are really trying to kill the secondary market if you don't allow this. May not even be legal, but I don't really know.

If you want me to use it, then I must be able to let my players use the material from my books. I must be able to use the material from their books. I mean, from a business standpoint, if I have to convince 5 or 6 people to buy the same book before we can use it, how many books are you going to sell. That will not only drive some people away from DDI, but it will hurt book sales to those on DDI for that reason alone.

If 5 people are paying $120 a year each (that's $600 from one group) to be on DDI, then they ought to be able to use each others books. This is how it has worked from the beginning of D&D. This is a fundamental change to the way gaming works, and it will hurt sales. I mean, seriously, if you are getting $600 from each group that is using the virtual game table, is anyone ripping you off. Some common sense needs to be applied here for sure.
The DDI will cause new groups to form rather than keep existing groups together (unless they can figure out the book pooling issue we all seem to be thinking about). I think that parts of this might be good (meet new and interesting people)and it can go terribly wrong. At the least it will leave us grumbling about tools that we can't use since we either have to many books or not enough.
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Im still amazed at everyone absolutely freaking out that someone has to (a) own whatever new book comes out because it should already be populated with the SRD to get use out of the character creator instead of pirating the software from somewhere and (b) pay an entire 2.96 cents a week to have access to Dragon, Dungeon, a map maker, a character creator, a character visualizer, special e-content and other features. When you buy the book you can still share it with your friends, but for them to use special books on the character creator they must own them..they can still make the character, play it, do whatever they want with it..but to be able to make a character from a special book on the computer they need to buy said book..what is wrong with that?
There are at least two reasons why we chose the PC/DirectX route. The first one is related to Market research indicating that PC users are a much larger user base than Mac users, and the second is the fact that we already had in house a direct-X based 3D game engine, and there was no point reinventing something we already had available

I'm assuming you are referring to the D&D Online: Stormreach game engine, as that is PC only. I also wrote that game off when it came out because it was not compatible with the Mac, though I really love Eberron and the game got good reviews. Shortly after that I got sucked into WoW, even though I had always told myself I wouldn't, since everyone and their mother was a WoW player. If a better game came along that I could run on my computer, I may even be tempted to switch, but as of yet, nothing has stood up and proven itself worthy for Mac users. Perhaps World of Starcraft?
Yes, I am a defender apologist. A Rock and a Hard Place: A Warden Handbook
Im still amazed at everyone absolutely freaking out that someone has to (a) own whatever new book comes out because it should already be populated with the SRD to get use out of the character creator instead of pirating the software from somewhere and (b) pay an entire 2.96 cents a week to have access to Dragon, Dungeon, a map maker, a character creator, a character visualizer, special e-content and other features. When you buy the book you can still share it with your friends, but for them to use special books on the character creator they must own them..they can still make the character, play it, do whatever they want with it..but to be able to make a character from a special book on the computer they need to buy said book..what is wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with that if WoTC doesn't want to sell DDI memberships or if they want to cut down on book sales. You see, there are only two ways for this to play out in a group. Either the group uses the CC online and has to agree to all buy the same books (which will really cut down the book sales to the lowest common denominator) or the group won't use the online stuff. It's just bad business. It is not freaking out. It won't help bring new people into the game. It won't help DDI subscriptions, and it won't help book sales. I am not trying to say that they owe me anything. I am just trying to be realistic about what it will lead to. I would ask you, how many books do all the people you play with own (other than the PHB of course)? How does that compare to how many books you each own individually? Would you use a sight that cost money that you couldn't use to the fullest extent?

Look, I like what I am seeing so far. It took a little bit to get over the initial frustration and shock of it all, but I think this thing could work, at the right price and under the right circumstances. That price is closer to $5 a month than the $10 that I have seen some people throw about. Xbox live sells for just under $50 bucks a year, and I think that kind of service is comparable. Now, everyone on xbox live has to have the same games, but you mostly don't care who you play. I would hate to find all my games on the virtual game table by matchmaking me with other players who own the same books. I want to play with my friends. This isn't MMO.

I'm not looking for something for free. I am looking to translate my experience up to now into the digital domain. Not change it for the digital domain. They wouldn't sell less books. They would sell more. They wouldn't sell less subscriptions, they would sell more. It only makes sense.
Ya you'd need somekind of electronic adjustable mold, that would adjust it's self to match the shape of the virtual mini, rather then sculpting them individually.

Given the one in my mind is a box filled solid with vertical pins, and you'd need some sort of skin to cling to the pins, so the liquid plastic didn't go where it shouldn't.

It's complicated and perhaps unlikely, but the possibility should be considered thoroughly before being discarded.

I'm not going to bother reading through the rest of this thread before I post, so forgive me if someone else has already posted this information.

There is a technology that currently exists that allows you to rapid prototype object from CAD files using a laser and a UV sensitive polymer. In theory, if the online representation were translated into the correct file format and someone had this tech, little 3D miniatures could be generated.

I don't know what the physical resolution limits are, however. Maybe you can't make something small enough to function as a useful mini and have them be detailed enough to satisfy customers.
yes.

Thats a confusing answer, considering how the question was worded...

The -most- exciting thing to me about D&DI is going to be the online tabletop and character generator, but the only way I could justify using it is if there is something that allows players and DMs in a campaign to share the books that they own.
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Maybe, depends on the Mac. See this blog entry here

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=908201

Seems very short sighted and kind of makes me angry. I was getting a little excited about this 4th edition, till I read this answer.

Very disappointing, shows lack of vision, and means I will not be able to participate in this. Should have known better as I have seen no/very little support from WotC.

Oh Well

~Wyvernspirit
Im still amazed at everyone absolutely freaking out that someone has to (a) own whatever new book comes out because it should already be populated with the SRD to get use out of the character creator instead of pirating the software from somewhere and (b) pay an entire 2.96 cents a week to have access to Dragon, Dungeon, a map maker, a character creator, a character visualizer, special e-content and other features. When you buy the book you can still share it with your friends, but for them to use special books on the character creator they must own them..they can still make the character, play it, do whatever they want with it..but to be able to make a character from a special book on the computer they need to buy said book..what is wrong with that?

Why does everyone have to own the same books? Sure everyone needs the PHB, but only the cleric character needs the Complete Divine, the fighter needs Complete Warrior, etc. The only exception is a campaign setting book, which everyone would need.
So just to be clear here.

I want to use the PHB within the DDI Character Creator. Does this mean I have to Activate The PHB or are you just talking about the future supplimental books that will come out for 4th ed?

Is there a way for a DM to make rules available for their players in the accounts they own?

On another topic, do you have to turn off the rules completely to add on house rules? Will the house rules go away if you turn them back on?
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Why does everyone have to own the same books? Sure everyone needs the PHB, but only the cleric character needs the Complete Divine, the fighter needs Complete Warrior, etc. The only exception is a campaign setting book, which everyone would need.

Umm, you don't. Right now you would only need access to said book to use it, in order to use it on the DDI, you would have to own it. Its just an added incentive to own the book. So IOW, your DDI could be completely different than your friends.
There's nothing wrong with that if WoTC doesn't want to sell DDI memberships or if they want to cut down on book sales. You see, there are only two ways for this to play out in a group. Either the group uses the CC online and has to agree to all buy the same books (which will really cut down the book sales to the lowest common denominator) or the group won't use the online stuff. It's just bad business. It is not freaking out. It won't help bring new people into the game. It won't help DDI subscriptions, and it won't help book sales. I am not trying to say that they owe me anything. I am just trying to be realistic about what it will lead to. I would ask you, how many books do all the people you play with own (other than the PHB of course)? How does that compare to how many books you each own individually? Would you use a sight that cost money that you couldn't use to the fullest extent?

Look, I like what I am seeing so far. It took a little bit to get over the initial frustration and shock of it all, but I think this thing could work, at the right price and under the right circumstances. That price is closer to $5 a month than the $10 that I have seen some people throw about. Xbox live sells for just under $50 bucks a year, and I think that kind of service is comparable. Now, everyone on xbox live has to have the same games, but you mostly don't care who you play. I would hate to find all my games on the virtual game table by matchmaking me with other players who own the same books. I want to play with my friends. This isn't MMO.

I'm not looking for something for free. I am looking to translate my experience up to now into the digital domain. Not change it for the digital domain. They wouldn't sell less books. They would sell more. They wouldn't sell less subscriptions, they would sell more. It only makes sense.

That is an honest candid response, but I don't agree with the bottom line figure. I think all they have done is create added incentive to actually own the books instead of sharing or pirating them. Im sure these books are all going to be on a bittorrent site the month after their release and they realize that there is nothing they can do about that. They can't stop the loss, they are just doing their best job to be non-intrusive but still mitigate the loss as much as possible. You may not think for the money that this product is worth it, but from what I have seen I do. The utility of 10$/month is basically one less lunch out for me, so I get alot more out of giving it to WoTC and using a great product than I would out of some forgettable food.

I also believe that you are wrong in the limited ways you describe people using the product in a group. I think its going to be utilized much like things are now. People who can not afford a service that is not necessary for their function of life, don't get to use it. Those who are afforded a more financially comfortable position either by invested effort or inheritance of some fashion are able to fully use as many of the tools as they can afford. I dont need you to have the full use of DDI in order for me to use its functions even if you are in my group. The fact is that the product will sell if the price is right and it won't if the price is wrong, I personally believe that it will sell just fine.
For my group it would be of no use to have DDI as the players would never pay for all the books individually, the PHB yes, but not others, it is just to expensive.

lets say the monthly fee is $10 that's $120 per year or in my case of a group of 5 people $600/year.

then we have currently in 3.0 & 3.5 over 25 books that we use from time to time, none of our players would stick to the same books for a full year. in fact most players would have used at least one feat, item, class etc from each book in any given year. Each book is on average $40 so that's $1000 in books.

Our groups investment in books has now gone from $1000 to $5000 (for 5 players) and we now have a yearly cost for $600. And this will be for a simple extra being a character generator and digital table, I don’t think so.
Totally agreed, the problem with D&D developers is that somehow they close themselves into making a GAME, not a GAMING PLATAFORM, and this shows in this software preview, if i have a sligthly diferent looking setting im stuck with the models and textures they give me, couldnt i at least choose to use rectangles with personalized images as tokens in the map?

Im almost sure that no one but the the developers would be able to make new models (expantions). If this posibility were open to the public so that you could import new models/textures it would become an awesome tool, thats more open to player's and DM's creativity.

After all D&D is about the users imagination, rules and material should improve this experience, not restrict it.

Now that I've seen the video of the demo, I have a very serious request to make: body proportions.

The demo showed the slider for height in action, and I saw another slider. Now, some games with customizability allow for certain variations in weight and build, but none do it perfectly (although Phantasy Star Online did a pretty good job). I would like the programmers to consider other variables carefully.

In real life, I'm a psychologist. One of the things I work on is gender in the media, especially in video games. Very, very few games allow for realistic body proportions. It's demeaning and demoralizing, mostly to women but also to men, when all the male characters are muscular and all the female ones have slim waists and large breasts.

So from both a player's persspective and a moral one, I urge you, in the strongest possible terms, to add what would be an unprecedented level of body customization. Let people be fat or skinny, muscles or none. Let female characters be flat-chested. And if you really want to be kind to your players, have the "default" view not look like Angelina Jolie or Brad Pitt.

I'd personally like to see child-like proportions available as well (large heads and eyes), but that'd be a bonus (and, psychologically, maybe not so great--games that let you beat up on kids, even nonrealistically, could potentially be harmful).

I have a rather simple question about the character creator that from my checks of this thread doesn't seem to have been asked.

Will I be able to sort my created characters into separate "folders" or otherwise have a way to narrow down the characters? I sometimes make 2 or 3 characters per game for multiple games and being able to save them in a separate "folder" for each campaign would make me happy. Not a make or break deal or anything, but it would be very nice.
I would love to see a character sheet that fit's on 1 A4 page, front & back just 2 sides. No big stacks of paper for a single character :P

Ok, am I the only wierd one here that LIKES big huge character sheets?
My current character is at 15th level, and I carry about 30 sheets around.
One is a customized spreadsheet with all his stats.
One is all his psion powers.
Two show everything he owns.
Four pages are history and notes about the people he knows in the world.
and so forth...

If I was to try and boil this guy down to only one page...he would be extreamly dull and boring.

I am worried that so much roleplaying will be lost if we wipe out everything but a "this is how you kill the bad guy" stat block.
I'm going to use pharmaceutical companies as an analogy here.

Game = Treatment
Game Platform = Cure

Pharmaceutical companies don't make money off of cures, even though cures are better. Likewise, gaming companies don't make money by offering a means for DMs and players to reshape the game accurately in any way they choose.

That said, if the treatment sucks, most people will simply choose to suffer or die. In the case of games, since one's life isn't on the line, it's far more likely they'll simply give up the game if it doesn't suit them. It's all about a balance between offering enough to keep them coming back, and keeping enough to keep yourself necessary.

I don't mind this to a certain extent. I'd rather all corporations give up this type of business model, but oh well. They'll hit the edge of the economic circle eventually.

I see no reason for them to support homebrew stuff. Suppliments, absolutely, as they're not necessary, but still integral. But homebrew rules are your problem, not theirs. They're under no obligation, nor should they be, to adapt THEIR product to YOUR convoluted and generally badly made houserules. They support THEIR stuff, your stuff is your problem.

Now, I'm looking forward to giving my characters a real appearance for a change.
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That is an honest candid response, but I don't agree with the bottom line figure. I think all they have done is create added incentive to actually own the books instead of sharing or pirating them. Im sure these books are all going to be on a bittorrent site the month after their release and they realize that there is nothing they can do about that. They can't stop the loss, they are just doing their best job to be non-intrusive but still mitigate the loss as much as possible. You may not think for the money that this product is worth it, but from what I have seen I do. The utility of 10$/month is basically one less lunch out for me, so I get alot more out of giving it to WoTC and using a great product than I would out of some forgettable food.

I also believe that you are wrong in the limited ways you describe people using the product in a group. I think its going to be utilized much like things are now. People who can not afford a service that is not necessary for their function of life, don't get to use it. Those who are afforded a more financially comfortable position either by invested effort or inheritance of some fashion are able to fully use as many of the tools as they can afford. I dont need you to have the full use of DDI in order for me to use its functions even if you are in my group. The fact is that the product will sell if the price is right and it won't if the price is wrong, I personally believe that it will sell just fine.

I can agree with that as well, but I know for sure that not every player I wish to play with would (if any). What about your group? Is every one seeing the same side of this issue as you? If not, you will just play with fewer players?

As said, this is a fine product for me, that opens up a lot of opportunities, but the price have to be reasonable to convince the rest of the group to join in. No group, no gaming.

In all the time I have been playing RPG, no one has been left out because of money issues. Some couldn't even afford the dices, but they were still part of the fun.

As you said, if some can't afford they just won't be able to use this feature, and yes, of course WotC is a business and they want some coins. The question is, how they will get the most, and I'm with Pete and Steven, I think that it will not attract enough Groups, if every player have to spent a high amount. I think it will be proportional much more attractive if, and again, we have a shared book pool.

And if that is not enough reason, than as I said earlier, what about new players, which comes to the game a couple of years after Live? Their initial cost would be very high to join a group, if they need to buy the books the set group have gathered through the years. It will be a turnoff for most.

This can neither be compared to the price of a MMO. A MMO most will play at least an hour or more every day. I don't think D&D players will increase time played, which I guestimate to be average one time a week.

So why should WotC even do this, if they can't increase their revenue? I think they still will. Being able to get back all these ex-players that had to leave, because of time, work and a change of location. They can now gather up with their ol' group. And with that old group starting up again, those players will with guarantee bring in new players that never else would have played this game.

Take me, I could start up again with my over seas friends. I have of course gained new friendships at my new location and a few of those I know would be ready to join in on the fun. The same with my friends back home.
Also now I can play without having to kick the family out, and I know that my son will be looking over my shoulder. Now he will find this cool (that generation just swallow everything that is virtual) and soon he and his friends will start a game.
These tools should not be used to take more money away from the already established D&D community, but instead, be used to attract a whole new group of players, that else would not have time, interest or perhaps even heard about this.

Just my sack of coins.
Perhaps a group subscription could be implemented. A bigger per month price for a whole group to gain access. Say $25 per month but the whole group can log in an use the tools. That is a fair saving for groups of four or more people. Or a sliding scale of cost depending upon how many accounts are linked to it. That covers families, too.


Shane
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Robert J. Hanlon ...so if I post something that offends or annoys you, it's probably not because I meant to, but simply because I'm dumb - point it out and I can sort it out.
Perhaps a group subscription could be implemented. A bigger per month price for a whole group to gain access. Say $25 per month but the whole group can log in an use the tools. That is a fair saving for groups of four or more people. Or a sliding scale of cost depending upon how many accounts are linked to it. That covers families, too.


Shane

That would again be absolutely fair. I would of course suggest that instead of calling it a Group subscription perhaps let it be a subscription to the one that wish to host a session (which in most cases would be the DM) and let that person be responsible to collect money from the rest of the group if he wishes to do so. The book pool could also just be from that one person, meaning that everyone in the group have access to this person’s book, meaning that of course he/she would need to have all the books the group decides to use (but again, no one would stop that person from collecting money from the rest). Whatever or not $25/month is too much or too little, I don’t know.

Button line is, I want to use this software and is willing to pay for it, but I do not wish to force the rest of the players to spent more than they would on the physical game, which is not much, since there still need to be room in the budget for Magic, D&D minis and beers.

Edited: Better add, that I'm not whinning about this. I would prefer if people see it as suggestions and comments on how to attract me and other in the same position (which could be very few). In the worst cases, I haven't lost anything, but neither have I gained and will instead just continue as before the announcement.
I would prefer if people see it as suggestions and comments on how to attract me and other in the same position (which could be very few). In the worst cases, I haven't lost anything, but neither have I gained and will instead just continue as before the announcement.[/i]

Well, this is only four days after the announcement. They have months of free content coming first to show you if its worth your money or not. That is the best way you'll be attracted, I think (or not, as the case may be). Even int he worst case I bet you'll still have fun sat round the table with your group no matter the game you play and the subscriptions you do or don't have.


Shane
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Robert J. Hanlon ...so if I post something that offends or annoys you, it's probably not because I meant to, but simply because I'm dumb - point it out and I can sort it out.
First off, I would like to echo Apallo. I am not complaining. I think this could be great. The book share needs to be addressed though. The price has to be right too. Those of you who are saying that it isn't a lot of money need to remember how it used to be. How much money was it to you when you were in high school. This is the crowd that is being sought. That and college kids. Money is much tighter to them. The cost of a lunch out? I remember raman noodles and never even thinking about eating out. Start-up cost for the game is $30 + $5-$10/month (I really think that this $10 per month is too high and people need to stop using that figure or WoTC will get the idea it is OK). That isn't chump change for a lot of people. Especially those just starting out.

When someone wants to play now, what is the start-up cost? Think about it. It is 0. They use your PHB to make a character and play. If WoTC wants to get more people into the game, the start-up cost better be 0. If the tools are used during non-virtual play, then I better be able to use them for a guest. If I want to have a guest play in the virtual game table, then I better be able to let them. That goes for my son and wife too. If we want to play games in the virtual, I better be able to have more than one person play from my computer on my account. That isn't too much to ask. Xbox does it.

As far as it not being too much to ask for everyone to own the books they use, yes it is. While I agree that not everyone needs each book, it is way too much to ask for someone to have to own the setting book. The DM picks the setting and should be able to share the setting book with everyone. To compare that to pirating is to no understand what pirating is. It is called fair use, not pirating. If I have a player using CW, for instance, and someone looks over the book and wants to try a feat, they should be able too. We shouldn't be building a cast system in D&D. "You can't use that feat 'cuz your momma's on welfare." That's absurd. If I want to play monopoly with my friend's, they don't all have to have the game. It should remain that same way with D&D. I should be able to play with 1 PHB, 1 DMG, 1 MM, and some friends (who don't have squat). Now you can ask for a little more from them for the DDI (like everyone at each location needs to have a PHB, but multiple players need to be able to play from each location).

Please, when you are commenting on the costs involved, remember that the people who we need (yes need) to get into the game probably have less disposable income than you do now, and have less willingness to spend it on a game they have never played.
I would be keen to know if this generator will support templates. These days I never play a character without one.
I would be keen to know if this generator will support templates. These days I never play a character without one.

I most heartily agree. I was quite skeptical to hear that the character generator could create 'any character we could imagine'. I immediately thought "Oh really? What about my half Ti'en lung monk?"

Heck, I'd be keen to know if 4th E even HAS templates... I use them a lot in my games.
That would again be absolutely fair. I would of course suggest that instead of calling it a Group subscription perhaps let it be a subscription to the one that wish to host a session (which in most cases would be the DM) and let that person be responsible to collect money from the rest of the group if he wishes to do so. The book pool could also just be from that one person, meaning that everyone in the group have access to this person’s book, meaning that of course he/she would need to have all the books the group decides to use (but again, no one would stop that person from collecting money from the rest). Whatever or not $25/month is too much or too little, I don’t know.

Button line is, I want to use this software and is willing to pay for it, but I do not wish to force the rest of the players to spent more than they would on the physical game, which is not much, since there still need to be room in the budget for Magic, D&D minis and beers.

Edited: Better add, that I'm not whinning about this. I would prefer if people see it as suggestions and comments on how to attract me and other in the same position (which could be very few). In the worst cases, I haven't lost anything, but neither have I gained and will instead just continue as before the announcement.

I think that using the group idea is a good one, I wouldn't mind paying a small amount per week for a seperate user/pass with less access (maybe leave out Dungeon or the DM tools) but with a shared book pool. My only fear to using the book pool is that if I move, I cannot reregister my books on a seperate account and have to convince my group to "buy out" my books.

More considerations for the development team:
  • What happens if you want to remove your book for the active list?

  • I wish to sell someone my "Feats of XXX" (:D doesn't that sound dodgy), can I "release" my code from my D&DI account so that it can be reactivated?

  • If I move (lapse and have to reregister)/get divorced/have a stalker and want to change my online profile for D&DI, will I be able to take my registered stuff with me?

  • My crazy Ex (insert appropriate term) wipes out my DDI account for spite, what recourse do I have to rebuild it?
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I just wanted to add my two cents about this portion of 4th ed.

If this is supposed to be the major draw to purchasing new books and buying things i already know in 3 ed, then your going to have to allow me to share the content i buy in hard form with friends.

sure every player owns the PHB, but i have more money then the people i play with and i can buy books for us all to share (suppliments). however if this is unavailable in the 'software' lure of 4th ed, i see no reason what-so-ever to change to 4th ed. 3.5 works great and since i cannot share my 4th ed books anyway, i wont be playing online or using that software because no-one else would have the same capabilities.

Quite frankly if we cannot have limited sharing (say with 4-5 people) then all of this 'new fancy' software doesnt mean jack squat to my gaming group.

The ideal situation is to require everyone to have a truly unique code to unlock the PHB and then that would allow them to using other players books in a 'gaming group' for a nomial fee, or (since they are paying you a monthly fee anyway) include it in the DnDI subscription.
Technically the only parts of the DDI that are intended to mean squat to your existing group is the things they will be able to use while sitting at your computer using your account while you stand over their shoulder and advise.

Like the Character Creator/Visualiser

For your existing group, you can therefore slink by with just the 3 core books.
I have no idea. Does anything you have online accounts do this? MMOs? Email? PayPal?

Yes. iTunes allows me to own an .mp4 and share is with up to 5 other users that _I_ authorize. They don't even have to be related to me.

A similar model would allow me to own the books and share the pdfs with 5 other authorized users that I designate. As my group changes, so will my authorized users list.
Yes. iTunes allows me to own an .mp4 and share is with up to 5 other users that _I_ authorize. They don't even have to be related to me.

A similar model would allow me to own the books and share the pdfs with 5 other authorized users that I designate. As my group changes, so will my authorized users list.

Exactly. So does Xbox Live (as I said before). I don't care about the PDF's so much, but the CC database needs to let me open it up in other's accounts. I think 4 or 5 would be perfectly reasonable. And Email, for that matter. I get 5 accounts with my high-speed internet. I also get to hook as may internet capable devices as I want through my router. I currently have 2 desktops, a laptop, and 3 game consoles hooked up. So yeah, other subscriptions do allow this.
I have expanded information now that I am back in the office


I don't believe there are slot limitations

There will be slot limitation as we can't provide infinite space. We are still figuring out how many slot there will be for each account as it will depend a variety of factors including average file size. We don't want to have a situation where the limited slots number hurt usability but how many that is is still TBD.


If not, are you saying the only way for a group of 5 people to use the options of one book with the DI database is for all 5 people to buy the hardcopy of the book?


Originally Posted by WotC_ScottR
yes.

So to clarify this point each subscriber to D&DI will be able to build characters using all the options published in the released books.

Unless they have the e-book they will not be able to get the expanded text/details (use the browse or print form) without the e-book, but will have the information on where these options were published. The e-book gives a D&DI user extra functionalities above the base functions in the character creator.
I

So to clarify this point each subscriber to D&DI will be able to build characters using all the options published in the released books.

Unless they have the e-book they will not be able to get the expanded text/details (use the browse or print form) without the e-book, but will have the information on where these options were published. The e-book gives a D&DI user extra functionalities above the base functions in the character creator.

I think this is a great compromise for a business to make. Thanks if that actualy comes about. Only time will tell...
So to clarify this point each subscriber to D&DI will be able to build characters using all the options published in the released books.

Unless they have the e-book they will not be able to get the expanded text/details (use the browse or print form) without the e-book, but will have the information on where these options were published. The e-book gives a D&DI user extra functionalities above the base functions in the character creator.

Thank you. An official answer. That is also what Xmen 510 said and he eased my mind, until others again made me doubt. If this hold I'm sold and ready to game :D.
Thank you. An official answer. That is also what Xmen 510 said and he eased my mind, until others again made me doubt. If this hold I'm sold and ready to game :D.

Agreed! Nice to see some good news after all the sweating.
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So to clarify this point each subscriber to D&DI will be able to build characters using all the options published in the released books.

Unless they have the e-book they will not be able to get the expanded text/details (use the browse or print form) without the e-book, but will have the information on where these options were published. The e-book gives a D&DI user extra functionalities above the base functions in the character creator.

This is great news. A different answer would probably have kept me from buying 4E. So it is very easy for a gaming group to share a book, as each character can be built from all published options - you just need the book for the expanded info and descriptions. Great job, WoTC!
I have expanded information now that I am back in the office




There will be slot limitation as we can't provide infinite space. We are still figuring out how many slot there will be for each account as it will depend a variety of factors including average file size. We don't want to have a situation where the limited slots number hurt usability but how many that is is still TBD.




So to clarify this point each subscriber to D&DI will be able to build characters using all the options published in the released books.

Unless they have the e-book they will not be able to get the expanded text/details (use the browse or print form) without the e-book, but will have the information on where these options were published. The e-book gives a D&DI user extra functionalities above the base functions in the character creator.

I guess it will look something like the etools listing of feats and whatnot. You just don't get all the extras (which makes sense as that would make it cumbersome if it wasn't needed) without the e-book (still waiting on a format for that e-book term though).

Sounds like something that would be useable to me.
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So to clarify this point each subscriber to D&DI will be able to build characters using all the options published in the released books.

Unless they have the e-book they will not be able to get the expanded text/details (use the browse or print form) without the e-book, but will have the information on where these options were published. The e-book gives a D&DI user extra functionalities above the base functions in the character creator.

DoublePlusGood.
Awesome. That's just what I wanted to hear.
I would love to see this thoughtfully implemented.

As someone who is the appointed campaign note-taker for the group, it would be awesome to have all of these notes centrally stored and easily accessible for me.

I also would love to see a 'home brew' option for character creation that lets people fully customize feats, skills, magic items, bonuses, etc, etc.
Unless they have the e-book they will not be able to get the expanded text/details (use the browse or print form) without the e-book, but will have the information on where these options were published. The e-book gives a D&DI user extra functionalities above the base functions in the character creator.

Let me rephrase this to make sure I understand it:

You're saying that if I want to look up, say, "Halflings", and I have the PHB E-book but not the MM E-book, DDI will give me PHB information but only page references for MM details?

In other words, the E-books become an online searchable database, "unlocked" with the codes from the books?

If I have that right, that's really pretty cool. Due directly to old habits I'd like to have access to it offline (and would pay a fair price for same), but still, very nice indeed.
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