D&D Insider

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OH I agree...it is not a good long term solution.

I still don't get why companies insist on just sticking to one OS or another. If they had anticipated this from the start they could have made it functional across the board from the start. At this point it will take them extra cash to include MAC and LINUX.

littlest money out for the most money in.

most people have or can get access to windows OS in order to view the articles and such. but i am not sure the articles will be OS dependant.
littlest money out for the most money in.

most people have or can get access to windows OS in order to view the articles and such. but i am not sure the articles will be OS dependant.

I don't think it is the articles, just the tools.
I don't think it is the articles, just the tools.

certainly. but those tools are not what you pay for. or that may be how it gets spun. the tools will jsut be bonuses for subscribers using windows OS.

therefore they don't need to develop for anything else.

the thing you subscribe to will be the articles or online books, etc. and all that should be cross-platform compatible.
yeah, um, no.

not everywhere does this. my books are not your bathroom reading material nor your coaster to spill a drink all over. get your own books to destroy.

the key to attracting new players is word of mouth. if it sounds good enoguh to try then people will want to try it. the books themselves are just crunch to get to the game at hand.

if i just handed a book to someone to read before playing agame they would say no thanks i will pass on D&D.

but if they heard about the game and things about it they may want to read a book.

and a DM that just loans out books to new players may never see the book again or may not have it in time to play the next session.



and as for your tradtion that is also wrong.

many gaming groups may share the DMs books, but lots others get their own books. some even share all the books to a group.

anyway sharing books via onlie tabletop would not work for the company wanting to make money even if it would help gamers jsut bring their games online.

I don't believe I presented this behavior as an absolute thing that ALL DMs do this, but I do believe it is done far more often than not. It is also not indicated that I meant that a group's library of books, was a library where books are checked out and taken home. I believe it should have been clear that I meant that while character creation is done more traditionally with everyone around the gaming table, ESPECIALLY when dealing with new players. Now when it comes to new players, you obviously don't have them traditionally try to take in all of the non-core books and create some kind of complex character build. However, there is a transitional period where you have a player that isn't new to the game, but still doesn't own their own library of books.

While I'm not saying it is impossible (since I've read someone actually running their group like this in this thread), but I'd bet a year of my salary that it is by far more common for a DM to run their group in a way that a player isn't required to own their own copy of a book in order to utilize its contents.


My opinion of this matter won't change, no matter how blue in the face the "but a company must be able to make money" crowd debates their point. Truthfully I'm a capitalist and I appreciate a company's ability and right to make their money, but I also have a strong sense of a client's right to vote with their money.

In both of the groups I currently play in, neither have the cash that could afford a restrictive sharing model, especially the group that I would consider the hardcore DnD group that has been playing since 1st edition. We have a communal library of books that is kept at the house we play at, which isn't the DMs home. Of the six of us that play, only two have the funds to purchase all of the books (and we do), while two don't even own their personal Player's Handbooks.
How about someone who puts down the awful, putrid, skanky OS that is Vista?

How Microsoft believed that virus like behavior would be tolerated is beyond my ability to understand.

I haven't used vista yet so I don't have an opinion on it one way or the other... But one thing I have noticed is that when people put down vista it's because of some issue they have experienced with it themselves, not a blanket "vista users suck" sort of thing. THAT sort of thinking - or not thinking - is what spurred my jumping into this mini-debate here.

Personally I've used Windows 98 (I think it sucked); ME (which totally blew); 2000 (which is on a few of the unnetworked computers at work); XP home (on my wife's and daughter's computers), professional (on the networked computers at work and on my ancient laptop surprisingly enough), and media center (on my desktop) and I have to say FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE and not having used Vista (yet) that the versions of XP are so far the best windows-based OS. On the Mac side I've used every single incarnation of the mac OS from OS7 to OS9 on my old mac - it wasn't OSX compatable unfortunately, and comparing the windows and mac OSes, I have to say FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE that the mac OS is intuitive and very easy to use from the get-go. I've even tried ubuntu linux - but I really didn't like it much. The ONLY windows OS that I've felt that comfy with is XP which is the most intuitive and mac-like OS that microsoft has come out with - again I'm saying this from my own experiences and not having tried vista yet.

And again my whole issue is that you got some jacka$$ who just wants to crap the threads by putting down macs in general and mac users specificly for wanting to be able to get into the DI... and that's just common as hell and an example of a very pi$$ poor attitude.

But perhaps I've jumped the gun a bit myself, so let me backtrack and put it to Irving and even jeff-heikkinen - have either one of you ever used a mac at all? Even to play with one in a comp USA or a mac store? Tell ya what, before you (and I'm aiming this at anyone and everyone suffering from an anti-mac bias) come down with your anti-mac bias, why not give one a whirl? Go to a store and play with one for a bit. Got a friend with a mac? See if he or she will let you play with their mac for a bit...

I'm here to tell you from my own personal experience that the mac technology and the mac OS is superior to the wintel platform - it is, after all the original (well, actually xerox was the orginial but Apple bought the rights to it, not stole it, changed it slightly, and resold it like someone *cough* Bill Gates *cough* did... but I digress)... and has been refined over the years. Don't get me wrong I do like XP, I like being able to play pretty much any game I want to, but if it wasn't for the agressive advertising on Microsoft's side and the lack of it on Apple's side, then just from ease of use and killer technology then the macs would hold the lion's share of the market right now.

But my point is not even that, but just the attacks from some jackass here to the mac users, hence my orignal comment for Irving to get over himself.
I don't believe I presented this behavior as an absolute thing that ALL DMs do this, but I do believe it is done far more often than not. It is also not indicated that I meant that a group's library of books, was a library where books are checked out and taken home. I believe it should have been clear that I meant that while character creation is done more traditionally with everyone around the gaming table, ESPECIALLY when dealing with new players. Now when it comes to new players, you obviously don't have them traditionally try to take in all of the non-core books and create some kind of complex character build. However, there is a transitional period where you have a player that isn't new to the game, but still doesn't own their own library of books.

While I'm not saying it is impossible (since I've read someone actually running their group like this in this thread), but I'd bet a year of my salary that it is by far more common for a DM to run their group in a way that a player isn't required to own their own copy of a book in order to utilize its contents.


My opinion of this matter won't change, no matter how blue in the face the "but a company must be able to make money" crowd debates their point. Truthfully I'm a capitalist and I appreciate a company's ability and right to make their money, but I also have a strong sense of a client's right to vote with their money.

In both of the groups I currently play in, neither have the cash that could afford a restrictive sharing model, especially the group that I would consider the hardcore DnD group that has been playing since 1st edition. We have a communal library of books that is kept at the house we play at, which isn't the DMs home. Of the six of us that play, only two have the funds to purchase all of the books (and we do), while two don't even own their personal Player's Handbooks.

I'm a part of two gaming groups, both running 3.5 and so far if one of us doesn't have a certain books then one of the other players or DM will loan it to the player to use for a bit in character creation. I've sunk quite a bit of money into getting the books but I don't have every single book... there are those in my groups with children, medical issues, or other priorities and so don't own but a few of the books - and it's no big deal to loan them out to others in the group.

I can see an issue with a shared thing on the DI however... I would be really nice if they are willing to do something like shared books for spouses and gaming groups but I seriously doubt it will ever happen - the bean-counters would see it as loosing money...
certainly. but those tools are not what you pay for. or that may be how it gets spun. the tools will jsut be bonuses for subscribers using windows OS.

therefore they don't need to develop for anything else.

the thing you subscribe to will be the articles or online books, etc. and all that should be cross-platform compatible.

For those of us who's groups have spread out, the tools are exactly what we are interested in.
I'm a part of two gaming groups, both running 3.5 and so far if one of us doesn't have a certain books then one of the other players or DM will loan it to the player to use for a bit in character creation. I've sunk quite a bit of money into getting the books but I don't have every single book... there are those in my groups with children, medical issues, or other priorities and so don't own but a few of the books - and it's no big deal to loan them out to others in the group.

I can see an issue with a shared thing on the DI however... I would be really nice if they are willing to do something like shared books for spouses and gaming groups but I seriously doubt it will ever happen - the bean-counters would see it as loosing money...

But the shared books thing may not be an issue if this works out the way they say it will. From what I understand, the tools will allow you to make a character even if you dont have the book in question. You will be able to use feats from said book and they will appear on your character, but wont appear is a detail of what that feat does, merely the feat name and which book its from ,maybe even with a page number. Then, if you have a friend with the book he/she can fill you in on the details of the feat. This seems like a reasonable approach to me. It is sort of the way our curent group works, not everyone owns every book, but between us we own almost all of them. As I am making up a character I might mention to the group, has anyone seen a feat that will do X, and someone might say yeah saw that in Complete Coolness, heres the book copy it from there.
I haven't read the rest of thread, and so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I would really like to have access to Dungeon and Dragon magazines without paying the full subscription to DDI. I don't plan on using many of the features of DDI, but I still want my Dragon. I'm not made of money, and so it'd be really helpful if the various features were available individually.
But the shared books thing may not be an issue if this works out the way they say it will. From what I understand, the tools will allow you to make a character even if you dont have the book in question. You will be able to use feats from said book and they will appear on your character, but wont appear is a detail of what that feat does, merely the feat name and which book its from ,maybe even with a page number. Then, if you have a friend with the book he/she can fill you in on the details of the feat. This seems like a reasonable approach to me. It is sort of the way our curent group works, not everyone owns every book, but between us we own almost all of them. As I am making up a character I might mention to the group, has anyone seen a feat that will do X, and someone might say yeah saw that in Complete Coolness, heres the book copy it from there.

If I'm gaming at my "kitchen table" I don't need to bother a DM or the owner of a book with a "Could you look up on page x of y book and tell me what z feat/spell/class/ability does?". No at my gaming table I am able to say "Please pass me the y book."

In my gaming group, we can switch out the DMs so that one of the members that has only bought maybe the PH and DMG can run his own game using all the material we have available.

It isn't impossible for WoTC to allow groups to share out their collective books with their members, if they just institute a few things.

- Groups are limited in size (no more than 12)
- Users are limited to the number of groups they can join (less than 4)
- The non-owners of the books just get a JPG image of the page they are looking up.

Sure someone could go through the trouble of putting together a whole book and PDF it.... well someone willing to go through that trouble is someone willing to download a free piece of software that allows them to download PDF versions of books.
For those of us who's groups have spread out, the tools are exactly what we are interested in.

Even for those of us who aren't. I can see using a tool like the Game Table on a regular basis during an event where we are all physically present, just to spice up the combats and make them more visually appealing. That will not happen in my group if there's not some level of Mac compatibility.

And these days, since the Mac OS is essentially a form of Unix, it should not be hard to include Linux as well.
But perhaps I've jumped the gun a bit myself, so let me backtrack and put it to Irving and even jeff-heikkinen - have either one of you ever used a mac at all? Even to play with one in a comp USA or a mac store?

Yes, I owned a Mac for several years. The OS was no more or less inutitive or easy to use than Windows, in my experience. Not "bad" per se, but nothing special. I thought the "cuddly" aspects of the OS (the little smiley computer and cartoony icons) were obnoxious. The hockey-pucked shaped mouse with one button was weird. And when the hard drive failed, I couldn't replace it - unlike a Dell box, which is easy to open up and work with. And, of course, I couldn't play any games on it. I spent $150 on my current Windows machine. When the used monitor I used to use with the machine died, I got another used one for $20. It works well enough for my needs, it's easy to maintain, and on a slow weekend I can run down to Target and buy a game that won awards two years ago for $10.

It's not Macs per se that I've got a problem with. It's the messianic attitude that many users have. I hate being preached to about how much smarter you are than me for buying Steve Job's machine. It's a computer. It's kinda pretty, but it's got design flaws like every other machine ever designed. Stop pretending it's the second coming, already - it's not an idol, it's an appliance.

When they Mac messiahs are actually forced to recognize that their teal-colored machines aren't perfect, I can't help but grin. It's like watching an obnoxious driver get pulled over by the cops. Sometimes, reality intrudes on the myth.

It hardly suprises me that this game won't be Mac friendly. You should be used to it by now, though. How many games are Mac friendly to begin with? I couldn't get Achaea to cooperate with the Mac (a text-only MMORPG using cutting-edge 1980's technology). Why should this game be any different?
I have a couple of questions. I've checked the 4E FAQ for answers from WotC staffers, but can't find the details I'm searching for.

D&DI is 9.95 a month, and includes Dragon/Dungeon Magazines plus all the other "extras" such as the virtual gaming table, character vault etc. I have this info on hand. The details I'm missing are:

How often do we pay-up? That is, do we pay 9.95 each month, or can we pay a few months ahead? 120.00 or even 60.00 is a big chunk of change, so it prolly wont be too far in advance.

Can we buy individual "issues" without signing up for an extended subscription. I've heard some things, but have no details on this.

What are the ways to pay? Credit Card seems obvious but I haven't found any details on this yet.

Details, details . . . at this late stage of the game, these little things are driving me crazy. I apologize if all of this is readily available and I'm just missing it somehow. Many thanks to any who can help; I will keep my eye open for any responses and pass details along as best I can for others like myself who may have missed them.
/\ Art
You seem up to date on everything you mentioned as far as I can tell. There are no more details yet because it is not "late in the game" The game won't even be available until May of next year which is about the same time the D&D Insider will start charging for access. Thats 7 months or so out. I think as this moves forward info will become prone to the snowball effect. Just keep your ears open and your eyes to the grindstone and all will be revealed.
Attention, WoTC staff members!

I already posted this on the Doomsday thread, but then I thought that this would be a more suitable thread to pose these questions to you:

I was wondering if you guys at WoTC have considered public libraries as customers when you were planning DI and these digital 'book codes' for additional material?

Is it even possible for libraries to subscribe to DI? I personally think that they would violate copyright laws if they pass on their usernames and passwords to library users, or if their users are downloading and saving magazines in .pdf format. Anyway, preventing this (abuse of digital material) would require someone keeping constant watch over them, which most (=seriously understaffed) libraries are simply not able to do.

If libraries buy the 4E Core Books, are they allowed to print this 'additional' digital material for their users to read, or let them read/browse it online by using the book code owned by the library? Even if there is a risk that these users will also download those .pdf versions of the books? I doubt that, but I just wanted to ask. I must also note here that usually any kind of 'restricted access to a part of the collection' might be seen as 'abominable' by many librarians, and thus not even worth the investment.

Have you guys thought of all this, because I'd like to think that public libraries worldwide have been loyal and profitable customers to WoTC for many years? As I said above, considering the copyright laws and what we've read about DI it might either be very impractical or even against their ideology to subscribe to DI and purchase any 4E books - making it easier, from a library's perspective, to stop buying D&D products altogether.
I don't know where else to ask this, so I'll just do it here.
Supposedly, having an account here is a foot in the door for playtesting. Do we know anything else about it?

When does playtesting begin?
How can I be sure to get in?
Hrm. Well, I have a dumb question. I can't login to the Insider. Well, I can, but it still doesn't show me content. I get an "authenticate=true" in the request string, but the page reloads telling me I still need to sign in. And when I tried to submit a question to wotc via e-mail, it said my request had not been submitted, to press the "send e-mail" button to send it....but there was no e-mail button.

Is D&D Insider down? Am I missing something obvious I should be doing to access the design articles? Did I misunderstand when I thought my account in the community was enough for temporary access to the D&D insider articles? Assistance would be greatly appreciated (even though this is slightly off topic, its the closest topic I could find. Abject apologies!)
The hockey-pucked shaped mouse with one button was weird.

Yeah, they got rid of those and finally moved to two-button mice as well. Plugging in a multi-button mouse was the first thing I did when I started using Macs at school.

And when the hard drive failed, I couldn't replace it - unlike a Dell box, which is easy to open up and work with.

Were you using an iMac? I recall those being a pain for replacing anything but RAM. The Macs that have the tower separate from the screen I remember being much easier to work with. (The side panel had hinges so you could pop it open.)

When they Mac messiahs are actually forced to recognize that their teal-colored machines aren't perfect, I can't help but grin. It's like watching an obnoxious driver get pulled over by the cops. Sometimes, reality intrudes on the myth.

Of course, if they're defending the greatness of a seven-year-old computer with a hockey-puck mouse, they probably deserve to be knocked of their pedestal.

It hardly suprises me that this game won't be Mac friendly. You should be used to it by now, though. How many games are Mac friendly to begin with? I couldn't get Achaea to cooperate with the Mac (a text-only MMORPG using cutting-edge 1980's technology). Why should this game be any different?

Yup. When they announced the software tools for D&D Insider, I just assumed they wouldn't run on my computer. No surprise to me. Aside from WoW, I can't think of a single major game that runs on both Windows and OS X.
It's the messianic attitude that many users have. I hate being preached to about how much smarter you are than me for buying Steve Job's machine.

How about you ditch the smears. You are seeing what hasn't been said in this thread. You are holding a grudge against all mac users because you have had a bad experience with a few. Drop it already or go get counseling. You got issues.
1...The hockey-pucked shaped mouse with one button was weird.

2... And when the hard drive failed, I couldn't replace it - unlike a Dell box, which is easy to open up and work with.

3... And, of course, I couldn't play any games on it.

4... It's not Macs per se that I've got a problem with. It's the messianic attitude that many users have. I hate being preached to about how much smarter you are than me for buying Steve Job's machine.


5... It hardly suprises me that this game won't be Mac friendly. You should be used to it by now, though.

1... Long gone... and I've been plugging 3rd party multi-button mice into my macs for 10 years. I got the same 3rd party mice when I use PC's by the way. Just liked em better than what came with the rig generally.


2... Also, long gone... I've got an Imac, and it's easy as pie to crack one open now. Everything was easily accessible. Cakewalk comes to mind.

3... This is changing, it's gonna take a while, but Blizzard opened the floodgates, EA dove in headfirst and others are joining the procession all the time. Companies are finding that there's more money to be made by stopping exclusionary practices. Better to build for everyone if you have the resources.

4... I know I don't, and most Mac owners I know, don't have this attitude. We're just happy to have a machine we like. I really don't care what others use, it's all about personal choice to me. Use what ya like.

5... I know I am, but, like I said, the market is changing. Forward thinkers like Blizz and EA are taking advantage of it. Consumers can have long memories too, and they'll show a lot more long term support for companies who jumped in the pool with them first.




Anyway... just a long winded way of getting around to... there isn't a whole lot of difference between the systems these days.. everyone's mining everyone else's ideas.

Use the system you like.

Eventually WotC and others WILL come around. There's a lot of money waiting to be spent on their product.
I'll try to help

I have a couple of questions. I've checked the 4E FAQ for answers from WotC staffers, but can't find the details I'm searching for.

D&DI is 9.95 a month, and includes Dragon/Dungeon Magazines plus all the other "extras" such as the virtual gaming table, character vault etc. I have this info on hand. The details I'm missing are:

The $10 dollar price is not a final price. The current price range being thrown around is $8-12.

How often do we pay-up? That is, do we pay 9.95 each month, or can we pay a few months ahead? 120.00 or even 60.00 is a big chunk of change, so it prolly wont be too far in advance.

I think they will have different payment plans. There is even a pay as you go(per use) plan.

Can we buy individual "issues" without signing up for an extended subscription. I've heard some things, but have no details on this.

They said at the end of each month all the articles will be rolled into their respective magazines and you can pay for just those magazines.

What are the ways to pay? Credit Card seems obvious but I haven't found any details on this yet.

They are still discussing this.

Details, details . . . at this late stage of the game, these little things are driving me crazy. I apologize if all of this is readily available and I'm just missing it somehow. Many thanks to any who can help; I will keep my eye open for any responses and pass details along as best I can for others like myself who may have missed them.

I think they don't want to finalize any details yet because they are trying to find the best way to do things.

Hope that helps.
I hope city and wilderness tiles are soon supported. Also, I do think Wizards should implement advanced features they charge for -- for example, an official campaign (or many campaigns) run by Wizards that have ramifications in the actual campaign settings, character storage, map storage, downloadable maps (like gazeteers) and NPC that eventually cover most regions and major locations in their official settings.

Also, I'd pay up to a hundred dollars (with monthly fifty dollar subscription fee) for a superb MMORPG exceeding quality and gameplay standards of the norm. Maybe Wizards will be able to afford such a thing from upper/advanced feature fees. Also, Wizards should keep in mind that they'll probably have to compete with White Wolf again in this decade -- for online gaming sales. This could serve to strengthen their portfolio if they focus on intelligently done quality work.

Regardless, I am hopeful for the future works of Wizards and D&D although really guys, the D20 Modern setting should've had updated D&D classes rather than its present ten level generic format.
Yes, I owned a Mac...

Maddox has a lot of great stuff to say about Macs.
$50 a month for an online roleplaying game??? I hope your talking about a game game e.g. baldur's gate, neverwinter nights and not a campaign game i.e. dm + players because there's no way I could afford $50 a month (even the 8-12 price range would be hard for me at the moment especially if I'm buying books as well) much less be willing to try for the right to play just because its an official ongoing campaign. Although on that note it would be nice if they had an online version of the living games for people to play or DM in. Make it much more accessable for players in remote areas who can't get to the conventions that are where those normally take place.
Ok I think I want to let my opinion on this debate be known as well. I am an old school computer user I remember when computers didn't come with harddrives or color graphics cards. My fist programing expereince was with a Commedor 64. When I got my first computer I was very happy an IBM blue tooth running DOS. I upgraded to a VGA graphics card, up the the RAM to 512K, and added a hardrive (40M it ruled!) I continued to Upgrade not only the computer but the OS as well. Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95 (What do you mean you can't find my CD-ROM its been there for the past two years), 98, and finally mallenium (I quit!) I switch OSes at this point because windows was not doing what I wanted it to do it wasn't the top of the line and it wasn't the best and the brightest, it was the de-facto and they knew it, microsoft didn't care. This mentallity continued and is just now starting to be challenged.

That's when I switched to a mac. When XP came out I quickly switched back. I had all of the classic problems with mac: single botton mouse sucks, can't upgrade, programs blow, and No games. Now I used XP for a long time as I moved into Computer Science my ideas on what makes a good system changed as well. I reallized that their are fundamental flaws in the way windows works, file system the way it stores information the companies attitude (which is why their are more viruses on windows than any other OS), and it was not as stable. I then switched to LINUX. I finally found out what a stable OS was like it ran smooth, I could put it on anything, it was great except, no games and programs did not install intuitively (you all know the steps of the make/make install dance, I just love the coriography.) This sad penguin went back to using XP.

I try to look at every new tech that I can I try to examine it from multiple angles to see if it is better than what I am currently using. I am what you would call a technophile. When mac said they weregoing to OS X I was happy that they were going to be built on free BSD and thought it was a smart move on their part. I looked at the new systems coming out and descided it wasn't for me, they still had a while to go. This can be said for many technologies that come out especially software. I continued to use XP. I watch alot of Tech as it matures though and OS X still was on my watch list. with OS 10.2 I switched to mac. the software had matured to the point that it didn't matter wether I worked on a mac or pc, their were games, and good ones at that that I could play on the mac, the hardware specs out of the box was better, and the system was far more stable because of its BSD roots. When mac switched to Intel proccessors it really put the nail on the coffen and I see more and more mac users every week. Just recently their has been a surge of game being ported over to mac (a list I will not go over here but it is impressive). I am currently lookig at vista and I think it blows right now but when they get the kinks worked out it will be a good system. I will have to look at it serriously then to see if it would be better to switch.

Am I a mac messia? No. Do I use mac? Yes. Are they overall better than windows machines? Yes. Will I switch to a better operating system? Yes, but you would have to show me one first. There isn't one on the market yet. Vista looks like it got some promise but they have alot of work to do. by the way my PDA runs Windows it rocks. I'm not switching to the Iphone untill it has more software that can compete, so I'm not an Apple flunky either. I also don't own an Ipod, I don't listen to that many songs so I use my Homebrewed PSP instead it rocks.

The Point: Companies should not become palcid in the technologies that they have, since technology is moving faster and faster. There are more mac users in the world, than when WoTC created MTO's direct X interface and I think they should really look at becoming less dependent on a single OS. It will save the the process of having to upgrade later, costing them less money in the long run. Weither they like it or not they will have to upgrade. It may be because mac continues it's current growth and starts to dominate the market over the corse of the next year, and if you don't think this is possible then your not paying attention. Look at the new Imacs they're compact they hang on your wall they support 1tb hard drives. or it may be because something new comes out or windows desides to scrap Direct X for something new to compete in todays market, not likely but I didn't think that a fully holographic touch sensitive display, or we would be able to allow theblind to see using a camera and an chip embedded into a persons skull, or that a japanese person could become nearly invisable to the naked eye but these all exist. think about it.

What will I do though. Shut up and by an intel mac.
It's a sad state of affairs when DMs measure their success in total party kills and players in the damage they deal. Red
It may be because mac continues it's current growth and starts to dominate the market over the corse of the next year, and if you don't think this is possible then your not paying attention.

Really? This report says that Macs have surged to six percent of the market share. Call me crazy, but I don't picture them increasing their market dominance twelve and a half times over the course of a year.

At any rate, I can't find the 4e FAQ since the forums moved, so forgive me if this has already been asked. Would it be possible to grant short-term DDI access when a user enters the code from a new D&D book he's purchased? While I'm not sympathetic to the people who are looking for a free lunch during the conversion process, allowing a week or two of free DDI access after activating a new book doesn't seem unreasonable. It could also serve as a way to tempt users who haven't previously been using the online service by giving them a sample of what they've been missing. And from the consumer side, users would be able to make a more informed purchase when subscribing. Rounding things out, this would also lessen the load on the most loyal customers that are actually purchasing every hardcover you guys churn out. (Though I'm not about to claim I'm one of them.)

Feasible? Probable?
Really? This report says that Macs have surged to six percent of the market share. Call me crazy, but I don't picture them increasing their market dominance twelve and a half times over the course of a year.

Crazy. ;)

Who brings their corporate computer to the game, or get this client software installed on it without the IT masterminds noticing? Hmm. Okay. Scratch those.

Who lugs their home desktop tower to the game table? Exactly. Scratch those.

Now. Who is going to be bringing their home laptop to the game table? Right. Apple has 17.6% of the retail laptop market right now. And growing twice to three time faster the Windows laptops, at this time next year Apple could have 20% of the retail market. Of the younger demographic, you know, the age range D&D targets to like college students, Apple is even larger than that. If you exclude all the toy laptops under $1,000 which likely won't be able to run Game Table due to the requirements, Apple has an even larger share of the market of those laptops.

Of the target demographic, using non-corporate locked-down laptops powerful enough to run Game Table, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Apple has nearly a 30%–40%+ market share. Nothing to sneeze at when you write software.

It's a matter of looking at what market you expect to be at the game table. Laptops primarily, powerful enough to run Game Table, and a younger demographic at that.
Just a word about Vista.

The system that Vista is was not what was originally going to be. The new file swapping/storage system was scrapped when the content protection schemes was introduced and shoehorned into the OS. That Microsoft would go completely into this muck of protection of song and film is disturbing and heavily effects the OS and what they can do to lighten the load.

Mac OS has been clustered into dedicated boxes from the beginning, and OS X moves away from that idiom, allowing owners to upgrade and replace inner hardware like PC users have been doing for decades.

Now Vista is going the other way. Trying to build a computer with Vista is like pulling teeth. This is more than getting "Vista Compatible" parts, but having the whole computer digitally read and forming a readout of what your computer is.

More and more customers are building their own computer instead of getting the lesser boxes like E-Machines. Vista is discouraging this.

To say that Mac isn't going to get a bigger share from this stumble that Vista did is foolish. Vista can only hide the content protection better or get rid of it and become a prettier XP. Other than the newer Direct X and a prettier interface, it has nothing new inside it but a virus like programs that makes sure that every little thing is "paid for." This is not an OS.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Eric: Why would you use the digital game table if you have an actual game table right in front of you? I see desktops being more relevant than laptops in a lot of cases.
Crazy. ;)
Who brings their corporate computer to the game, or get this client software installed on it without the IT masterminds noticing? Hmm. Okay. Scratch those.

Who lugs their home desktop tower to the game table? Exactly. Scratch those.

Now. Who is going to be bringing their home laptop to the game table?

Please remember that the key goal of D&DI is not to bring laptops to the game table. It is to allow players that are not able to get together around the same gaming table to still play D&D, using the internet as their gaming table with the D&D game table application...

Having more laptops on your home game table is certainly a possible consequence of that D&DI initiative, but it is not our core drive for the D&DI project.

Apple has 17.6% of the retail laptop market right now. And growing twice to three time faster the Windows laptops, at this time next year Apple could have 20% of the retail market. Of the younger demographic, you know, the age range D&D targets to like college students, Apple is even larger than that. If you exclude all the toy laptops under $1,000 which likely won't be able to run Game Table due to the requirements, Apple has an even larger share of the market of those laptops.

Of the target demographic, using non-corporate locked-down laptops powerful enough to run Game Table, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Apple has nearly a 30%–40%+ market share. Nothing to sneeze at when you write software.

It's a matter of looking at what market you expect to be at the game table. Laptops primarily, powerful enough to run Game Table, and a younger demographic at that.

We are aware of the trends in this area, and as I mentioned earlier we are looking if some of our D&DI applications can be used with the more recent intel based mac systems, while keeping in mind our delivery goals and timeline. We also have made our decisions regarding serving the PC platform first based on factual market research data, not estimated data. A lot of our future steps will depend on the success of the first steps.
We also have made our decisions regarding serving the PC platform first based on factual market research data, not estimated data.

Well... it seems there's factual... and then there's FACTUAL...


The PC pr machine tells you that the Mac community only accounts for 6%. But they also lump in corporate systems and things like cash registers. I don't know anyone who uses a cash register in their home. So I don't think many people will be playing games on them.

A more acurate demographic would be established if the home community were actually polled.

Also, it seems to me that a stronger business plan DOES take into account future market trends. Assesing where you'll be next year, when your product comes out, but basing your decisions only on what currently is, or was, seems short sighted.

At any rate... thanks getting involved with the discussion! It's nice to know that the Mac community is being listened to, even if we don't care for the answers.
Well... it seems there's factual... and then there's FACTUAL...


The PC pr machine tells you that the Mac community only accounts for 6%. But they also lump in corporate systems and things like cash registers. I don't know anyone who uses a cash register in their home. So I don't think many people will be playing games on them.

A more acurate demographic would be established if the home community were actually polled.

Also, it seems to me that a stronger business plan DOES take into account future market trends. Assesing where you'll be next year, when your product comes out, but basing your decisions only on what currently is, or was, seems short sighted.

At any rate... thanks getting involved with the discussion! It's nice to know that the Mac community is being listened to, even if we don't care for the answers.

Hey, I did not say we were using generic Market Research data... We have our own market research department at Wizards...
Hey, I did not say we were using generic Market Research data... We have our own market research department at Wizards...

Write to Mac, port to Windows. It'll save you a lot of grief.
PC... Mac... Linux... this is the same argument that has been raging for fifteen years and we still don't have decent games support on the Mac or Linux (including at the present Never Winter Nights II and D&DOnline). Hasn't slowed sales of games any, doubt it will slow Insider use any.
We are aware of the trends in this area, and as I mentioned earlier we are looking if some of our D&DI applications can be used with the more recent intel based mac systems, while keeping in mind our delivery goals and timeline. We also have made our decisions regarding serving the PC platform first based on factual market research data, not estimated data. A lot of our future steps will depend on the success of the first steps.

Please at least say you're looking at TransGaming's Cider product -- that would seem to be the quickest, easiest way for you guys to bring it to the Intel-based Macs. At least, give 'em a shout, ya know?

Note -- I don't even own an Intel Mac (yet), and this would be an acceptable level of porting for me. Not ideal, of course, but I ain't expecting ideal.
Me: "You see a group of centaurs approaching at speed...." Druid: "What are they riding....?" Me: "Ummm, they're centaurs?" Druid: "Yes, but what are they riding?" Me: *twitch*
I have a question about it:Is there any free test for DnD Insider,or will be a free test?
I just want to identify myself as someone who would be very interested in using, and willing to pay to use, this software if, and only if, it will run on my Macintosh systems. They are both new-ish and Intel based. I am not interested if I would have to run them under Windows, not just because of the ridiculous cost of windows, but due to its many problems and vulnerabilities, combined with the fact that by the time I finish with it at work (where we finally upgraded to XP thanks to Microsoft pulling the plug on 2000, and probably won't see Vista for another 10 years (although I have tried Vista, and was underwhelmed)) I refuse to spend any dollars or any of my valuable gaming time in Windows.

Ultimately the message that the folks at WoTC need to hear from all of us with Macs is that a Mac version is the only way to get money from us that we would otherwise be willing, possibly even happy, to part with if it would let us game with our friends who have moved far away over the years. (BTW folks, you are also loosing some money from me by not having Macintosh Magic The Gathering Online available as well.)
I have a question about it:Is there any free test for DnD Insider,or will be a free test?

Well theoretically we are getting a free preview right now of the web content. At D&D Experience they talked about a 10 day trial. Likely it will be like the AOL trial where you sign up with your CCard and if you cancel within 10 days you don't get charged.
I am mac user who will quite likely not have accesses to a pc soon.  This coming November I may need to drop my subscription.  It's to bad really, I like 4e but it's geared to work hand in hand with D&DI. Oh well Amazing Engine it is! Wish you guys the best.

Bryan Davidson

All I want is to save the universe on spaceship powered by rock n' roll and I don't think that is too much to ask.

www.comicscafe.ro

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