PHB3 Class line-up

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So lets see what we have confirmed and rumor-wise as to the class make-up of the PHB3:


Confirmed:
Monk: Psionic Striker. Playtested in Dragon
Psion: Psionic Controller. Previewed in the DDI
Seeker: Primal Controller. Previewed in the DDI


Rumored/Speculated:
Battlemind: Mentioned in the Wilder text
Empath: Psionic Leader? Mentioned in passing by a developer awhile back
Templar: Divine X? Mentioned as a divine class in the Eberron Campaign Guide. Could be the old name for the Avenger.


Anything else?

We had a "Defiler" dropped a while back, too.

Although I tend to believe the "Templar" reference was an accident ("Avenger" was originally going to be called "Templar", the list in ECS does not mention "Avenger", all equals "oops" to me), both Templar and Defiler could be upcoming for the Dark Sun CS.

Similarly, "Seeker" could be upcoming for the Dragonlance CS.

Once again, we are given clues that point in either direction. They're tricky, those WotC's.

My bet, however: Defiler in Dark Sun (which is the 2010 CS). No such thing as Templar. All the others in PHB3.
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The "Templar" bit in ECS is a relic. The Avenger class was called "Templar" for a good portion of it's development before being renamed Avenger. That blurb in ECS was most likely written before the name change occured and was simply missed by the editting crew.

Edit: Bah, beaten to the punch.
"One skilled at battle takes a stand in the ground of no defeat And so does not lose the enemy's defeat. Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle. The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory." -- the Art of War
We had a "Defiler" dropped a while back, too.

Although I tend to believe the "Templar" reference was an accident ("Avenger" was originally going to be called "Templar", the list in ECS does not mention "Avenger", all equals "oops" to me), both Templar and Defiler could be upcoming for the Dark Sun CS.

Similarly, "Seeker" could be upcoming for the Dragonlance CS.

Once again, we are given clues that point in either direction. They're tricky, those WotC's.

My bet, however: Defiler in Dark Sun (which is the 2010 CS). No such thing as Templar. All the others in PHB3.

Defiler was in an April fools article. Dont use it as a drop at a possible class. Not that it still could not end up being one, but still.
Defiler was in an April fools article. Dont use it as a drop at a possible class. Not that it still could not end up being one, but still.

Not exactly; Witchalock was in the April Fools article. Defiler was mentioned in the same article, which means it's not in fact confirmed; however, it's more than likely going to be covered, class or template or whatnot, in the Dark Sun Player's Guide, considering how important the Defilers were to that settting. Though, they could be reserved to be only NPCs, and being monsters in the Dark Sun Campaign Guide.

This is assuming that Dark Sun will be converted to 4e, of course.


Most likely,

Monk
Psion
Empath?
*Some sort of Psionic Defender

Seeker?
Another 3 classes, split up amongst Divine and Primal.

Also, OP, please, call it the Psionic Power source. Monks don't do Psychic damage, but they're Psionic. Psionic doesn't necessarily equal Psychic damage. It's not the Psychic Power Source.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

With the confirmation of only 4 Psionic classes, and only 4 races, it's almost certain there will be only 6 classes total, due to the space required by the Hybrids.

Monk
Psion
Empath
"Defender"

Seeker

Unknown
Also, OP, please, call it the Psionic Power source. Monks don't do Psychic damage, but they're Psionic. Psionic doesn't necessarily equal Psychic damage. It's not the Psychic Power Source.

Huh?
We had a "Defiler" dropped a while back, too.

Although I tend to believe the "Templar" reference was an accident ("Avenger" was originally going to be called "Templar", the list in ECS does not mention "Avenger", all equals "oops" to me), both Templar and Defiler could be upcoming for the Dark Sun CS.

Similarly, "Seeker" could be upcoming for the Dragonlance CS.

Once again, we are given clues that point in either direction. They're tricky, those WotC's.

My bet, however: Defiler in Dark Sun (which is the 2010 CS). No such thing as Templar. All the others in PHB3.

Don't count the Templar out so quickly. There was a thread that asphyxiated a while back on whether or not it was valid (Admittedly, I led the charge for it), and there were a lot of good points brought up for both sides in it.

But I doubt they'd put in the Seeker part if it wasn't from the same book as the Githzerai. After all, Deva make great Artificers, but that wasn't put in the PHB2.
With the confirmation of only 4 Psionic classes, and only 4 races, it's almost certain there will be only 6 classes total, due to the space required by the Hybrids.

Monk
Psion
Empath
"Defender"

Seeker

Unknown

Ok I know where the only 4 psionic classes thing comes from(offhand comment in the zerai article), but where did the only four races thing come from?

-=Edit: Nm found it in the opening paragraph on the zerai article. I'm very disapointed by this revelation. =-
Ok I know where the only 4 psionic classes thing comes from(offhand comment in the zerai article), but where did the only four races thing come from?

Same article, at the very beginning:
This month’s Player’s Handbook 3 debut content is the githzerai, one of four races to be featured in that book.

Judging by this information, my guess is the Soulknife has been held off until PH4, along with another Psionic class to complement the Shadow classes.

Pity.
Judging by this information, my guess is the Soulknife has been held off until PH4, along with another Psionic class to complement the Shadow classes.

Pity.

Or the soulknife is being melded into the Defender Role, or not being used at all, simply because it doesn't have enough flavor to seperate it from an energy-blade ranger.

With the confirmation of only 4 Psionic classes, and only 4 races, it's almost certain there will be only 6 classes total, due to the space required by the Hybrids.

If there's only 4 races and 6 classes, I will be thoroughly disappointed. There better be 8 classes.
The Hybrid system, by PH3, is a class on its own. Simply providing the breakdown of the 18 pre-PH3 classes and the PH3 classes roughly gives us the same page count as a full class. That said, I'd think there will be a seventh class at least, either a second Primal or Divine.
The Hybrid system, by PH3, is a class on its own. Simply providing the breakdown of the 18 pre-PH3 classes and the PH3 classes roughly gives us the same page count as a full class. That said, I'd think there will be a seventh class at least, either a second Primal or Divine.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that A) there will be 6 PHB3 classes, and B) the Hybrid section will include the Swordmage and Artificer. I know there will be people whining about the Swordmage & Artificer being included, but since the Hybrid playtest includes the Swordmage, I feel it a safe assumption. That is a minimum of 24 classes.

Now, let's assume 2 - 4 pages for rules.

1 page for each class, or 24 pages.

Wild speculation, but let's say there will be at least 1 Hybrid specific PP, and 1 ED, each at 1 page.

That's roughly 26 definite, 30 possible pages. The PHB2 classes average 12 - 14 pages, plus 4 for PPs.

Therefore, it's definitely possible there will be 7 classes. However, it's extremely unlikely there will be 8, and I just don't see them doing 1 Divine 2 Primal, or 2 Divine 1 Primal. So for now I'm going to bet on 6.
Psionic
Monk
Psion
Empath
"Defender"

Divine
Seeker
Templar

Primal
Hunter
Totemist

My guesses
The Hybrid system, by PH3, is a class on its own. Simply providing the breakdown of the 18 pre-PH3 classes and the PH3 classes roughly gives us the same page count as a full class. That said, I'd think there will be a seventh class at least, either a second Primal or Divine.

As I don't see every group using hybrid rules(mine as well. Our consensus is: $$$$ these rules.), and I'm sure WotC understands this as well, my money's on having 8 classes so that the people who by PHB3 don't feel ripped off if they're not using Prius classes.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
As I don't see every group using hybrid rules(mine as well. Our consensus is: $$$$ these rules.), and I'm sure WotC understands this as well, my money's on having 8 classes so that the people who by PHB3 don't feel ripped off if they're not using Prius classes.

That's my feeling too. Unless they get a major overhaul somehow, the hybrid classes are still very unwieldy, and I know I (and many other players) would quickly trade them out of the PHB3 for 2 more classes, if the choice had to be made. So I hope it doesn't.
This book is looking rather unappealing to me the more I hear about it.

First, knowing that Monks would be Psionic, taking away the spot of something better (conceptually speaking).

Then, knowing that there would be Primal and Divine classes in it, again, taking room of other stuff (like more psionic classes).

Then the Wilden. Ok, I hate dwarves and having another Con/Wis race comes a good way but... I just can't understand that race.

Then hybrid. To me it looks like the designers are moving backwards with this one, as the concept of hybrid classes goes against the role thing (which I think is one of the best features of this edition, balancing every class inside its niche).

Then, minotaurs... and githzerai... and finally someone saying there'll be only 4 new races. Wow, I mean, just wow. Such terrible choices for races.

Finally, this whole speculation about less than 8 classes...

I was a very big fan of Psionics of older editions, but this might be the first crunch heavy book I'm considering not picking up for 4e.
Has it been said somewhere that there will only be 4 Psionic classes in the book?
I would be inclined to go with 5/1/1 at this point. I would really like there to be 8 classes as well, seeing the hybrid thing would be cool, but not something I would want a majority of the PHB to be dedicated too. Would have rather seen it in something more similar to an Unearthed Arcana style book. Being that is not the case I think we will see 7 classes, as they would/should do more then one ED, since there should be one for each Source combo, or at least a couple. Hybrid in general seems too generic for its own ED.

That being said I suspect the classes being something on the lines of:

Psionic:
Monk
Empath
Psion
Psychic Warrior (I really hope they keep the name, seems iconic for some reason)

Divine:
Seeker (Archivist/Priest type cloth leader)
Templar (Hoping it is the minotaur on the cover, Heavy Armored Striker)

Primal
Witch (second primal controller, lots of zone effects)
if they have 8 Totemist style defender that gains bonuses to stats with use of his dailies
Not exactly; Witchalock was in the April Fools article. Defiler was mentioned in the same article, which means it's not in fact confirmed; however, it's more than likely going to be covered, class or template or whatnot, in the Dark Sun Player's Guide, considering how important the Defilers were to that settting. Though, they could be reserved to be only NPCs, and being monsters in the Dark Sun Campaign Guide.

It's also important to note that the Witchalock article was written by Penny Arcade, and not WotC. Jerry is a very long time D&D fan, so it doesn't surprise me he'd name drop some old school references.
Psionics
Monk (including Soulknife as a PP)
Psion
Empath (leader)
Prodigal (defender, uses psionics to read his enemies every move. Opporunity action class features?)

Divine:
Templar (heavy armor striker, crusader architype)

Primal:
Seeker (Shinto priest archer defender)

Hybrid rules
-fighter
-rogue
-ranger
-warlord
-cleric
-avenger
-paladin
-Invoker
-artificer
-bard
-sorcerer
-swordmage
-warlock
-wizard
-barbarian
-druid
-shaman
-warden
-templar
-seeker
-monk
-psion
-empath
-prodigal
Has it been said somewhere that there will only be 4 Psionic classes in the book?

Yes, it was mentioned in the Gith article yestereday.
Mock-up of PHB3 ToC;
Psionic, Primal and Divine Heroes
Contents
INTRODUCTION
The Psionic Power Source
Psionic Powers are called Disciplines
1: CHARACTER RACES
Githzerai
Illumian
Minotaur
Wildren

Racial Paragon Paths
2: CHARACTER CLASSES
Crusader – Divine striker
Empath – Psionic leader
Monk – Psionic striker
Psion – Psionic controller
Saint – Divine leader
Seeker – Primal Defender
Warmind – Psionic defender
Witch – Primal controller
3: CHARACTER OPTIONS
Hybrid Classes
Feats
Heroic Tier Feats
Paragon Tier Feats
Epic Tier Feats
Multiclass Feats
Bloodline Feats
Adventuring Gear
Magic Items
Armor
Weapons
Rods
Staffs
Tomes
Wands
Wondrous Items
Rituals
Variant Ritual Books
Ritual Descriptions
APPENDIX: RULE UPDATES
GLOSSARY
INDEX

Bel
Originally Posted by WotC_RichBaker In related news, I'm afraid I'm going to have to confiscate your 3.5 rulebooks, and force you to convert to the new edition. Where do you live?
Saint won't be a class; it's an EDest in Divine Power.

The Crusader archetype has been adequately filled by the Avenger, and if you can't use that, Paladin works quite well too.

Wilden, not Wildren.

Little to no evidence for Illumians, as much as I would like them. Maenads may be in it, due to the picture, but that's speculations on what that picture is...

Witch is Warlock. They're the same thing. We don't need a class that requires Alchemy (aka Potions Master) to be a Primal Class, or any class, either.

Warmind is actually the best name I've heard in a long time for the Psionic Defender. I'm liking that.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

My guesses on Hope.

Races..

Minotaur
Githzeria
Wilden
Dromite

(really, only four races... )

Classes..

Psi

Psion
Monk
Empath
Soulblade (absorbing the Physic Warrior)

Divine

Templar
Saint

Primal

Hunter (I think this may have a different name)
Animalist (sorry, but the totem mechanics from the last edition does not need to be revisited)
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
The Crusader archetype has been adequately filled by the Avenger, and if you can't use that, Paladin works quite well too.

I agree with everything else you said (the witch might still work, but it might be difficult to differentiate hexes from curses), except for this. If you honestly think the Avenger is a crusader, you need to either gain a better understanding of the word or of the class. Avengers are Witch Hunters, not Crusaders. Paladins can fill the crusader slot, but as much as a cleric can fill the paladin's slot. Which is to say, kinda, but not really.
Witch is Warlock. They're the same thing. We don't need a class that requires Alchemy (aka Potions Master) to be a Primal Class, or any class, either.

Warmind is actually the best name I've heard in a long time for the Psionic Defender. I'm liking that.

While I agree with your last point, Witch and Warlock are far from the "same thing". Think about it in terms of established characters. Do you think that Faust and Granny Weatherwax have similiar sources for their abilities, or similar abilities for that matter? There's plenty of thematic room for a Witch-and it needn't be just a potions master (although giving them Brew potion as a free ritual would be a nice touch). Think of all of the great mythological "Witches" from folklore and popular fiction. I know I'd definitely like to play a class with some of the abilities of the titular character from Wicked or a character like Weatherwax.
I think the witch from the Discworld novels would be a primal class. That would be interesting...
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
I think there will be six classses. I think the psionic breakdown will be monk (striker), psychic warrior (defender), psion (controller), and empath (leader). I think that the divine class will be the seeker and the primal class will be a ranged-weapon specialist.
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I agree with everything else you said (the witch might still work, but it might be difficult to differentiate hexes from curses), except for this. If you honestly think the Avenger is a crusader, you need to either gain a better understanding of the word or of the class. Avengers are Witch Hunters, not Crusaders. Paladins can fill the crusader slot, but as much as a cleric can fill the paladin's slot. Which is to say, kinda, but not really.

If we're talking real world here, Paladin is just a fancy name for a high fluting knight who did a favor to a king or lord (or paid them a lot of money), a crusader is any one who happened to march with the Pope's armies into Israel, and a Warlock and Witch weren't the same thing until the sitcom Bewitched.

In terms of class, I think the Paladin is a crusader, because a crusade is a cause, and a paladin is a 'warrior with a cause'.

Avenger to me seems more like the Islamic 'assassin' of the middle ages. Trained in hidden monastic societies to kill the enemies of allah, using sacred rites that were supposedly handed down from secret texts.

I do not see room for a Crusader, or a Templar, in that regard, if we're trying to keep them within real world terms.

Not that I care if they don't keep them within real world terms, I like more classes.
Role Play Craft : Crafting Ideas, Modules, and Options for your Role Playing Game.
Confirmed Races: Minotaur, Githzerai, Wilden
Speculated race(s): crystalline race (I'm expecting something completely new here)

Confirmed Classes: Psion, Monk

Speculated classes:
Empath - a psionic leader with aura effects and an emphasis on "feedback" abilities (damaging those that hurt you or your allies).

"Psychic Warrior" - psionic defender. Has a mark that is almost like light mind-control. Has the "super-jumps" and other provocative elements from the 3.5 class.

Witch/Hexer - Primal Controller. This class is inspired mostly by the Witch "class" from the 3e DMG and (more recently) the Hexer NPC from the MMII. This class effectively melds Arcane and Primal traditions. It could be skilled at Alchemy. It doesn't coexist with or serve spirits like the Shaman or Druid, but rather controls, enslaves or summons them.

Runethane - Divine ?. A class themed around divine rune magic. Places runes and the like on the weapons and armor or himself and allies, and then activates them during the fight. I'm thinking this would be a Leader class.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that A) there will be 6 PHB3 classes, and B) the Hybrid section will include the Swordmage and Artificer. I know there will be people whining about the Swordmage & Artificer being included, but since the Hybrid playtest includes the Swordmage, I feel it a safe assumption. That is a minimum of 24 classes.

Now, let's assume 2 - 4 pages for rules.

1 page for each class, or 24 pages.

Wild speculation, but let's say there will be at least 1 Hybrid specific PP, and 1 ED, each at 1 page.

That's roughly 26 definite, 30 possible pages. The PHB2 classes average 12 - 14 pages, plus 4 for PPs.

Therefore, it's definitely possible there will be 7 classes. However, it's extremely unlikely there will be 8, and I just don't see them doing 1 Divine 2 Primal, or 2 Divine 1 Primal. So for now I'm going to bet on 6.

Your page maths are all Shiny and nice but you're assuming an awful lot.2-4 pages for rules on what?

The PHB 2 also had rituals, racial paragon paths, new feats (including racial feats) and lots on backgrounds.

13 pages of racial PP's, of which we'll only need 4 for this book
6 pages on backgrounds, 4 of which were Racial with 3-4 per page

That's 10 pages of space that won't be used in the same way as before.

We can assume pages for Rituals, new Items, new feats and Epic Destinies will be similar but smaller page counts.

So there's a few pages going spare, and less need for other things like rules revisions or glosseries, etc.

I think 7 is a good number for classes for this PHB, but there may be space for an 8th.
Don't forget you have the reconfigured Ki classes to account for too here. So you might be looking at some combination of Samurai/Shugenja/Wu Jen/Ninja appearing as well. Or at the very least, the design concepts of these classes, even if they get renamed to remove the Asian flavor (not that this bothers me if they were to keep it).

The Wu Jen write-up in Complete Arcane says they are spellcasters that command the elements, spirit forces, and the powers of nature... so it's quite easy to think they could be re-purposed into another Primal controller... one that is purely ranged, unlike the druid.

By the same token, Shugenja are listed in Complete Divine as a divine spellcaster that attunes himself to the primal energies around him and focusing the energy to produce magical effects. They are also particularly drawn to investigate disturbances in the natural harmony of the four classical elements, as well as priests who teach the rituals of piety, venerate the memory of long-departed ancestors and measure the passage of time. So this class too could easily be reworked to fit into the Primal or Divine source as perhaps a ranged striker (since both of those two sources currently only have melee strikers represented).
... The Wu Jen ... The Shugenja ...

Or they could, you know, make an appearance in the PH4 under the Elemental Power source.
Or they could, you know, make an appearance in the PH4 under the Elemental Power source.

Seconded. And with different names; those names suck for 4e. Even if they're in the PHB3, I can almost guarantee you they'll have different names.
I'm no longer expecting Soulknife as a separate class. But I do semi-expect, and definitely hope for, the Soulknife to appear as a pseudo class dseigned like the Spellscar. That way you get the variety of powers and such over multiple levels, without worrying about things like how one build will be different from another.

That or at least for it to be a specific build of either the monk or defender.
I'm no longer expecting Soulknife as a separate class. But I do semi-expect, and definitely hope for, the Soulknife to appear as a pseudo class designed like the Spellscar. That way you get the variety of powers and such over multiple levels, without worrying about things like how one build will be different from another.

That or at least for it to be a specific build of either the monk or defender.

I envision it as the second build for the Monk and I'm not big on spellscars.

Bel
Originally Posted by WotC_RichBaker In related news, I'm afraid I'm going to have to confiscate your 3.5 rulebooks, and force you to convert to the new edition. Where do you live?
I am hoping to see some manner of Feat-Tree for Mindblade, it would be for any Psionic class. It could be any weapon you are trained in, with additional benefits that is suited for a Mindblade. I would definitely have it count as a Psionic Implement.
Soulknife would be a Superior Unarmed Strike proficenct feat for Monk. So will a revised version of Gnoll Clawfighter, with other benifits for non-monks.
Judging by this information, my guess is the Soulknife has been held off until PH4, along with another Psionic class to complement the Shadow classes.

Pity.

Or it might be a monk paragon path. It has occurred to me that if you really wanted to play a soulknife, a reskinned monk might do the trick.
I envision it as the second build for the Monk and I'm not big on spellscars.

Bel

Soulknife will be it's own class, if not in the PHB3, then it'll be in PHB4.

And I'm 90% sure the second build for Monks, the Strength-based one will be of the Monastic Tradition of the "Iron Fist" or "Iron Hand" and it will represent "hard" styles of martial arts, since the "Centered Breath" tradition represents the more "meditative" or "soft" styles of martial arts.