Invoker

30 posts / 0 new
Last post
is up at DDI...

As I don't have DDI, what are it's abilities like?


You don't have to tell me what they are but what do they look like? Is it more terrain control, enemy status control, blasty control?

Discuss.

Ps Wizards you suck.

a 1-3 level snippet of a class isn't enough to make DDI worth it. So stop it already. It's not like it's a 1-10 level preview.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
On one hand a level 1-3 preview is actually a playable snippit of the class (assuming all the class features are provided) but on the ithe hand most campaigns that I'm aware of have moved into the level 5-10 range at this point. An unplayable cross-section of the class would almost be more worth it. Sure, it would be unplayable, but it would give a much better indication of what the class looks like across its career. If you're intent on offering a playable chunk of the class, then go for a level 1-10 "half-the-class" setup, or, even better, drop a level 11 premade character. It actually gives the playerbase the fewest number of powers as a preview, but can be taken apart for any Heroic Tier level.
From what I saw, the Invoker was the Blaster type. Their abilities are designed to blast their foes. They have some abilities that manipulate position of friend and foe on the battlefield.

And when you factor in the compenduum, Monsterbuilder, Ecnounter builder, a few adventures from Dungeon Magazine, and the content of the full Dragon Magazine, DDI is a good value.

I don't believe it was the intention of WotC to give enough information to incorporate Invokers into a Campaign this early. It's more to give some spoilers for the PHB II...
Then why not just give it out as a spoiler excerpt like they did with the pre 4e release stuff?

I'm not saying DDI doesn't have other things going for it, but doing this "have ddi to see the rest of this snippet!" attitude probably isn't selling more DDI accounts.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
Hmm.


Wall of Light

Invoker Utility 2
You transform divine energy into the form of a long, glowing wall.
Daily: Conjuration, Divine
Minor Action
Area wall 5 within 10 squares
Effect: You conjure a wall of divine energy. The wall is 1 square high, and it lasts until the end of your next turn. While within the wall, any ally gains a +1 power bonus to AC, and each ally who starts his or her turn in the wall gains 5 temporary hit points.
Sustain Minor: The wall persists.
Interesting. I like.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
The class is like the offspring of the wizard and ranged cleric. It's a ritual caster with a variation of turn undead and channel divinity, but has no party healing. Lots of area effect spells that eithe move allies or tags all enemies hit with negative effects. To balance this out damage seems to be less than wizard (but I would have to check that).

Fluff wise the invokers remind me of favored souls from 3.5. In terms of the points of light world, the Invokers are the gods mortal champions against the primordals and to a lesser extent undead, devils and demons. Most of the fluff of there powers describes them as summoning angels or objects made of divine power to do thier attacks. Thus there are pretty close to a summoner class, but they don't summon something that physicaly moves about the battlefield the way summon monster used to work. Seems intresting and the fluff also seems to drop a few clues about the devas (the new asamirs).

For the record I am very happy with my subsrcipton and think its a good vaule.

Not liking the new forums.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/18.jpg)

 

 

Invokers are primary controllers and secondary leaders, confirming the existance of a link between power source and secondary role: divine characters can act as leaders, arcane ones double as controllers, primal characters like to pose as strikers and martial characters tend to make good defenders. At least that's how I see it.
I dunno, I'd say the Rogue is definitely the epitome of Striker :P

But yeah, I kind of noticed that too with Arcane and the Swordmage. The secondary role seems partially determined by power source. So the Avenger is the last Divine right? It's most likely a Striker? (Striker with Leader secondary.. that sounds so awesome)

And I for one like that.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
Invokers are primary controllers and secondary leaders, confirming the existance of a link between power source and secondary role: divine characters can act as leaders, arcane ones double as controllers, primal characters like to pose as strikers and martial characters tend to make good defenders. At least that's how I see it.

I'd actually swap Martial and Primal in that list- the Barbarian has that Temp HP thing going on, the wildshape druid inflicts slow in melee, and both the warlord and Fighter have higher DPR than their counterparts.
Invokers are primary controllers and secondary leaders, confirming the existance of a link between power source and secondary role: divine characters can act as leaders, arcane ones double as controllers, primal characters like to pose as strikers and martial characters tend to make good defenders. At least that's how I see it.

Actually, I'd say Martial defaults to Striker. Big weapons, big damage dice, etc.

From what we've seen, Primal characters are going to have lots of HP and good defenses, so they make decent secondary Defenders in a pinch.

Other than that, I agree completely. ;)
Then why not just give it out as a spoiler excerpt like they did with the pre 4e release stuff?

I'm not saying DDI doesn't have other things going for it, but doing this "have ddi to see the rest of this snippet!" attitude probably isn't selling more DDI accounts.

But giving it away for free somehow would?

It is an extra bonus for DDI subscribers. I can certainly understand your desire to see it for yourself, but don't you see the irony in claiming that it isn't a legitimate draw for DDI even while griping over your inability to have access to it?

Obviously, people do want to see this material, and are interested in it. Thus, it serves as a good bonus product to give to DDI subscribers, as an example of the benefits they get.

(Or, it would, if WotC did a better job of advertising it as a bonus instead of making people think it would be a full playtest article, etc.)
Or how about they stop wasting everyone's time and make it a levels 1-10 preview instead.

If you're going to have to pay to see it, make it ten levels not three.

Heck they handed EVERYONE the play test Barbarian for free.

Three levels isn't worth paying for.

Having a 1-3 freebie with the rest of the 10 levels on DDI pay for, That would be a way to draw in more customers to pay for DDI.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
Ah, but is it a bonus or is it a "bonus"? Is it in addition to regularely scheduled content or in lieu of?

In a broad discussion of value, non-subscribers aren't looking to pay for curiosity. If people were all over the boards with "omg, you have to have this three months early or you hate yourself, it's that good" then it would be an entirely different conversation.
Ah, but is it a bonus or is it a "bonus"? Is it in addition to regularely scheduled content or in lieu of?

In a broad discussion of value, non-subscribers aren't looking to pay for curiosity. If people were all over the boards with "omg, you have to have this three months early or you hate yourself, it's that good" then it would be an entirely different conversation.

It's not an issue of being a bonus or not. Just because they've gone digital doesn't mean it's not still Dragon (and Dungeon) Magazine. People paid for the privilege of extra options for playing the game before DDI, and they do the same now; only, now it's directly WotC handling the magazine, and you don't have to wait until a specific day of the month to get any portion of the content.

For the price you're paying, you get sneak-peaks at new classes and supplementary books, a bunch of options for existing ones, new monsters, new magic items, new paragon paths and epic destinies, new adventure ideas, and not to mention the full compendium and other tools. Of course, Wizards didn't deliver on the promises of the full Digital Initiative, but I'd rather them take time to make sure the tools work rather than have something rushed out full of bugs and half-finished.
-----

That said, I'm really looking forward to PH2, and the full Invoker article. The content I've seen for it so far looks pretty kick-ass.
Or how about they stop wasting everyone's time and make it a levels 1-10 preview instead.

If you're going to have to pay to see it, make it ten levels not three.

Heck they handed EVERYONE the play test Barbarian for free.

Three levels isn't worth paying for.

Having a 1-3 freebie with the rest of the 10 levels on DDI pay for, That would be a way to draw in more customers to pay for DDI.

~shrug~ I'm a subscriber, and I certainly didn't feel it was a waste of my time. It wasn't intended to be a playtest article - it is a preview, essentially bonus content for subscribers in addition to their normal articles.

I mean, I didn't pay for my subscription with the expectation that I would be getting previews like this. I paid with the expectation of getting monthly articles on various content, and the occasional playtest. That is, thus far, what they have delivered. The fact I have also gotten a preview of the druid, invoker and bard - that is just icing on the cake.

I mean, at this point they have previewed content for half the classes in the PHB2. Do you really feel there is some obligation on their part to have complete, playable classes of half the book 3 months before it is released?

Of course not. If you are interested in the content, it will be right where it is supposed to be - in the PHB2! (And the Compendium.)

Complaining that a bonus preview doesn't have more content - and that it isn't given away to everyone - seems like a solid case of entitlement. If it isn't useful information of interest to you, then don't worry about it, especially if you aren't even a subscriber.

If you are interested in the content - as you seem to be - then it would seem they are successfully making the subscription package look more appealing.

I mean, I'm not saying your suggestion would be a bad approach - having some content for free and some for subscribers is certainly a good model, and one they have used well elsewhere. But they certainly aren't required to do so, and it does seem pretty odd to claim this material is useless, even as you ask for people to share the content!

All that said... I probably would have preferred this as a playtest, since I have quite a bit of feedback I'd like to give for the At-Will Powers. >_> I'm very happy with the look of the class as a whole, but a few of the At-Wills seem directly more potent than the wizard's - including one that is literally just a superior Scorching Burst. That worries me. The classes as a whole might still be balanced - the wizard still looks to have the edge on range, and possibly in other areas - but you'd think they could at least keep the At-Will powers a bit more even.
To be fair, it's not like Scorching burst is exactly a good at will power to start with compared to it's counter parts. :P
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
Actually, I'd say Martial defaults to Striker. Big weapons, big damage dice, etc.

From what we've seen, Primal characters are going to have lots of HP and good defenses, so they make decent secondary Defenders in a pinch.

Other than that, I agree completely. ;)

I agree with you. Fighters are quite strikerish, warlords look more striker than clerics as well, and the other 2 of them are actually strikers.

On the other hand, the druid seems like a melee range controller (that shouts defender) and the barbarian is pretty much a mix, even the designers said they werent sure if the barb would be a striker or a defender for a while. We dont know about the other primals, but with what we have seen, they get that slight flavor.
arcane: controller
divine: leader
martial: striker
primal: defender

Wondering if shadow, elemental, ki and psi will double those...
The value of DDI is, really, tied up in aggregate. Its real value is everything combined, something that gets more and more valuable as more and more back issue builds up. I think there's still a really good chunk of the community that would feel DDI is a good value, but they need a good marquee item to really push those people into opening a subscription. Like, now that people are talking about it, a bigger chunk of the Invoker would probably tip a lot of people over the edge.
I agree with you. Fighters are quite strikerish, warlords look more striker than clerics as well, and the other 2 of them are actually strikers.

I maintain that the Ranger is actually a Controller that they didn't have the guts to label that way, and it got thrown into the Striker pile because that's what Martial defaults to.

That's a subject for another thread, however.
I maintain that the Ranger is actually a Controller that they didn't have the guts to label that way, and it got thrown into the Striker pile because that's what Martial defaults to.

That's a subject for another thread, however.

The Ranger CAN be a controller...but so can anyone who wields a bow. A two-weapon ranger is most certainly a Striker.

By the way..."didn't have the guts"? Please explain how cowardice or fear plays into this. If nothing else, just to humor me.
The Ranger CAN be a controller...but so can anyone who wields a bow. A two-weapon ranger is most certainly a Striker.

Even the TWF Ranger has access to a bunch of attacks that target multiple enemies or do damage in bursts. Look at Twinstrike vs the Tempest Fighter power; they can potentially drop two minions with their at wills every turn.

Archer Ranger is really the pure controller of the two, but you can do a really good Controller impression with the TWF build.

By the way..."didn't have the guts"? Please explain how cowardice or fear plays into this. If nothing else, just to humor me.

Can you imagine the uproar on C&C when the trolls heard that the Ranger had the same role as the Wizard? Arguments still rage to this day over whether a Martial Controller is even viable. Announcing that the guy with a bow is going to be doing things that tangentially resemble Fireballs and Wall of Stones would have been a huge PR risk.
Can you imagine the uproar on C&C when the trolls heard that the Ranger had the same role as the Wizard? Arguments still rage to this day over whether a Martial Controller is even viable. Announcing that the guy with a bow is going to be doing things that tangentially resemble Fireballs and Wall of Stones would have been a huge PR risk.

Considering all the flak they've taken over 4E, it would have just been one more thing to whine about. As far as risks go, adding the Dragonborn, dropping the Barbarian, and so on to the core set were much more controversial decisions that they went with. The role of a particular class wouldn't have been that much worse.
Considering all the flak they've taken over 4E, it would have just been one more thing to whine about. As far as risks go, adding the Dragonborn, dropping the Barbarian, and so on to the core set were much more controversial decisions that they went with. The role of a particular class wouldn't have been that much worse.

Yeah, but it's something that's much easier to change at the last minute to avoid further flare ups than adding the Barbarian back in or removing all references to the Dragonborn.

It's also possible that the team itself was of two minds about it, and in the end went with the safe categorization.
It's also possible that the team itself was of two minds about it, and in the end went with the safe categorization.

That's very possible.

Of course, I don't care if they're called Controllers, Strikers, Pitchers, or Quarterbacks...they're fun to play and do their jobs nicely.
Of course, I don't care if they're called Controllers, Strikers, Pitchers, or Quarterbacks...they're fun to play and do their jobs nicely.

Oh, definitely. I just would have liked to see it called a Controller purely for the reinforcement of the fact that it could be done. I could care less what they're called in-game.
I maintain that the Ranger is actually a Controller that they didn't have the guts to label that way, and it got thrown into the Striker pile because that's what Martial defaults to.

That's a subject for another thread, however.

I concur. There's an interview somewhere in which Mike Mearls say controllers, in the begining of the process, were purely AOE machines, They got more and more "condition imposing" powers with time, becouse they felt the archetype was a bit lacking in the begining. Probably Ranger was a controller in the first part of the process, but become a striker later (when the wizard started to gain walls, zones and conjurations, and the ranger did not have powers to alter battle terrain to compete with). That, and the focus on mobility (very strikerish), with all those powers that move and attack, and the quarry and prime shot features.
A recent survey one ENWorld.org* found that of D&DI subscribers, only a statistically insignificant number (fewer than the margin of error for the survey) reported that they didn't feel a year-long D&DI subscription was a good value. In other words, of the people surveyed, basically everyone who paid for D&DI is glad that they did.

Some of the most common reasons by people cited were:
  • Dragon Magazine, specifically the crunchy articles, like the ones about Gladiators, Minotaurs, and Gnolls, for example;
  • D&D Compendium, which compiles ALL the crunch in a single handy place;
  • The high quality of the Character Builder Beta (as in, it bodes well for future D&DI tools);
  • Relative price of a year-long D&DI subscription compared to hardcover books.

I have a D&DI subscription, and I dare say it's the most bang for my buck I've received in a roleplaying product.
With D&DI I'm having more fun with the game than I ever have. Take that as you will, but I think it's definitly worth the cost.

Also 3 levels of Druid and Invoker are just fine for starters, I'd rather that than 10 levels of half a class...this gives us more of an idea about the class as a whole.
With D&DI I'm having more fun with the game than I ever have. Take that as you will, but I think it's definitly worth the cost.

Also 3 levels of Druid and Invoker are just fine for starters, I'd rather that than 10 levels of half a class...this gives us more of an idea about the class as a whole.

Truth.

Anyway, a sneak peek a playtest means not.
Sign In to post comments