PHII - What to make of the new info.

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With the Front Cover of the PHII up on the wizards website I figured i'd start this conversation anew.
So we now know
1) The initials of the classes in the book are B B D I S S T W
2) Three of these classes are new concepts/new versions of old concepts
3) The book contains Arcane, Divine, and Primal power source.

So I'm gonna place my bets that It'll be two Arcane, two Devine and four Primal classes, bringing the totals to four each.
My predictions:
Bard and Sorcerer - Arcane
Shaman - Devine or Primal?
Barbarian and Druid - Primal
Leaving us with three letters I W T to fill the remaining Devine and Primal slots. What do people think, any ideas?

As for races i've got no speculation, except GN will probaly be Gnome. But is that a Goliath on the front of the book?
I would bet the shaman is primal

and most certainly is a Goliath

The other race is believed by many to be a shifter, I am not 100% convinced of that but it could be
I've seen Inquisitor and Totemist mentioned as a divine striker and primal controller respectively. These sound like fair enough guesses.

W is a divine class, I think. Probably controller. But I don't have a good guess yet. Witch would be possible, but one of the preview books referred to shadar-kai "witches". Wu Jen will most likely be reserved for the elementalist source. I'd say it will have a class name we haven't seen before.
Yeah, I imagine Shifter will be saved for the release of the Eberron book later in the year. I like the Inquisitor idea. And Totemist is a definite possibility. Although that gives me images of the Incarnum class. Witch sounds Arcane to me. But possibly Shadow if linked to the Shadar-Kai the same way Warlock is linked to Tieflings.
I'm wondering about the woman on the front, Is she and Elf? And Is she a Druid? Or do totemists/shamans summon animals in spirit form to do their bidding?
If they put that stupid arsed power gaming race in the book... >_< Goliaths were so damned cheesy and ridiculous. I was sick of all the players whining and yammering to play them.
Well then we'll have to see what 4th edition Golliaths look like to see if they're just as bad. I doubt they will be.

I just hope Kobolds are in there too. After all it would only make sense to put them in there if they're going to sink down to the level of putting gnomes in there.
Bard, Barbarian, Druid and Sorcerer will be in the book so that is a given since it has been said they shall be released by 2009.

Gnome is also a given as a full write up was promised. It is also a Goliath on the cover and a ??? I like the ??? it is kinda cool looking.

Now
Druid and Barbarian-Primal
Sorcerer and Bard-Arcane

That leaves
I, S, T, W.

I'd like Summoner but it is most likely Shaman.

I seems like it would be Illusionist but I hope not with the Sorcerer and Bard in the Book. However, I have no other guesses atm.

W could be Witch or Wild Mage both would be fun to see.

T hmmm... Thaumaturge or Templar are my guesses again both would be fun to see.
3) The book contains Arcane, Divine, and Primal power source.

No psionics? Damn. I was hoping that the "T" stood for "telepath".
Barbarian is the Primal Defender, Druid the Primal Controller, Witch the Primal Striker and Shaman the Primal Leader.

Bard is the Arcane Leader, Transmuter is the Arcane Defender.

That leaves I and S and I don't think S is Sorcerer. These should be divine classes. Most likely one is a Divine Controller and the other I'm not sure about. I could be Incarnate representing someone who is a servant of a god, probably be a good name for a controller. S I'm not sure about.
Where would one find the PH II info?
Actually, while I'd love to see a Witch class, it is unlikely because the designers have implied a "witch" in D&D 4e terms is a warlock or shaman.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15873273&postcount=3951
Interestingly enough, we've got some new spellcaster classes in 4e that might better model the hathrans than anything we had in 3e. Specifically, the warlock with the fey pact is a pretty good fit. Or the shaman class (we're working on one for a future product, and it includes some neat mechanisms for dealing with nature spirits). So I'd be inclined to say that a lot of the witches are warlocks (heh, that's kind of funny, English is a silly language) or shamans. But others could still be clerics or wizards. I wouldn't blink if a player who wanted to run a hathran picked any of those classes, really.

Barbarian - Primal Defender
Bard - Arcane Leader
Druid - Primal Leader
Incarnate - Divine Controller
Shaman - Primal Striker
Sorcerer - Arcane Controller
Tempest - Divine Striker
Wild Mage - Primal Controller

Thats what I predict. I have no facts to back this up just gut felling and what you can read here.
Witch is about the only thing that fits, Wu-Jen could but it would be more properly an elemental power source or arcane power source and probably would be in an Oriental PH.

Wild Mage I suppose could fit but I'm not sure how it would work in the context of 4E.
This is the link to the product page which has the front cover.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950164

The only wild mage we've seen so far is from the Kobold article in Dragon. The powers from that creature could easily translate into a player class, and make a very cool character imo, but it specifically states it's Arcane. They could mix the balance up and have more than 2 arcane, but i'm still pretty convined that Sorcerer is in there.
I only had one player who ever played a Goliath, they 'copied' the race over in our new campaign by taking the minotaur from the back of MM. The mechanic for wielding larger weapons is in the system already.
As a far out but interesting idea could the female character be Killoren for races of the wild? Ok they weren't one of the core races of that book, just one of the 'other races' but I loved their concept. And although they were origionally drawn as cat like the descriptive text had them down as half elf like with slim elongated limbs.
After reading what Rich Baker has wrote the woman could be a shaman, displaying her 'neat mechanism for dealing with nature spirits.
Bard is the Arcane Leader, Transmuter is the Arcane Defender.

The swordmage is the arcane defender
I did suggest on one of the other threads that the T might be a Theurge...
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Bard - Arcane Leader
Druid - Primal Leader
Incarnate - Divine Controller
Shaman - Primal Striker
Sorcerer - Arcane Controller
Tempest - Divine Striker
Wild Mage - Primal Controller

Thats what I predict. I have no facts to back this up just gut felling and what you can read here.

Your gut feeling actually looks surprisingly fitting to me. The only part I would change would be maybe switch the Shaman's and the Druid's roles. Personally I see Shaman as more the spell-castery "priests of nature". Druids will likely be more focused on their animal-forms than spells in 4e, a striker with some defender abilities and in "human" form a utility caster.
Your gut feeling actually looks surprisingly fitting to me. The only part I would change would be maybe switch the Shaman's and the Druid's roles. Personally I see Shaman as more the spell-castery "priests of nature". Druids will likely be more focused on their animal-forms than spells in 4e, a striker with some defender abilities and in "human" form a utility caster.

i agree, you should switch the 2
The swordmage is the arcane defender

While I'd love to see the swordmage...I thought they said they were releasing it in a FR book first?
While I'd love to see the swordmage...I thought they said they were releasing it in a FR book first?

It is, but I still think its the arcane defender. Its clearly for that role. And now everything is core right?
How do you mean Core? They are going to be releasing some of the more setting specific classes and races in each setting's player's guide.
How do you mean Core? They are going to be releasing some of the more setting specific classes and races in each setting's player's guide.

True enough, but I believe they want to make everything as "core friendly" as possible. Perhaps its an effort to have non-realms people get those books in order to get the swordmage class, the drow write up etc
And the swordmage might be in the FRCG but it will also be on the DDI
And the swordmage might be in the FRCG but it will also be on the DDI

very likely yes
I think that the other race on the cover is a driad(sp)
I think that the other race on the cover is a driad(sp)

not a bad thought. I do think it looks "feyish"
Yes, everything is Core in that the "Points of Light" setting is supposed to incorporate everything. You've got Warforged, Swordmages, and whatever else running around in a common environment.
Yes, everything is Core in that the "Points of Light" setting is supposed to incorporate everything. You've got Warforged, Swordmages, and whatever else running around in a common environment.

I know that; I was just under the impression that the swordmage was going to be in a FR book first, meaning it wouldn't be in the PHB2.

...unless the FRCS is coming out before PHB2...hmm. Does anyone either (A) know when the FR stuff is coming out or (B) remember where they said the swordmage would be in a FR book first?
Yep and the FRPG is more crunch than fluff. The Campaign Guide covers the more fluff and setting specific stuff and isn't really needed by a player at all and only really needed by a DM if they want to run in FR or pick ideas from it for their own campaign.

The point now is that all books and DDI (Dragon/Dungeon) content from WotC is considered Core. It may be optional (like the houserule things listed in the DMG about fumbles and skill check crits/fumbles) but it's 'core' and therefore 'legal' to use in RPGA and in DDI tabletop games flagged as 'legal' only.
Forgotten realms players guide is out in september 08 and has the swordmage in. Here's the link
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/218587200

Dryad is in the Monster Manual, and this edition they have a much more woodsy treefolk look. Plus Dryads have never made good player characters because they have to remain close to their trees.

I'm still hoping for Killoren....
I know that; I was just under the impression that the swordmage was going to be in a FR book first, meaning it wouldn't be in the PHB2.

...unless the FRCS is coming out before PHB2...hmm. Does anyone either (A) know when the FR stuff is coming out or (B) remember where they said the swordmage would be in a FR book first?

FR Player's Guide is slated for September with the Campaign Guide in August. THe PHB2 is slated for March 2009 so yes the FRPG will be out first and they've already stated it will have drow, genasi, and swordmages.
I think that's a Shifter Shaman or Druid.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
FR Player's Guide is slated for September with the Campaign Guide in August. THe PHB2 is slated for March 2009 so yes the FRPG will be out first and they've already stated it will have drow, genasi, and swordmages.

That makes more sense. So there wasn't any conflict with the PHB2 after all.

Carry on.
And the FRCG will mention bard, barbarians, druids and gnomes in anticipation of PHBII so all of the above are certainly in.
Barbarian is the Primal Defender, Druid the Primal Controller, Witch the Primal Striker and Shaman the Primal Leader.

Bard is the Arcane Leader, Transmuter is the Arcane Defender.

That leaves I and S and I don't think S is Sorcerer. These should be divine classes. Most likely one is a Divine Controller and the other I'm not sure about. I could be Incarnate representing someone who is a servant of a god, probably be a good name for a controller. S I'm not sure about.

I'm very curious about the upcoming book too. I kind of thought, though, that there would be more new power sources in the PHBII. Ah, well. I'm curious about the sorcerer. Which reminds me.

One of the "S's" is definately Sorcerer:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1031661
Second interesting tidbit: One of the really fun things I've had a chance to play with in the last couple of weeks is a little bit of development assistance on the Player's Handbook II. The part that I got to get my hands dirty on is the sorcerer--an old friend, since I created the first draft of the sorcerer back in the early days of my work on 3rd Edition.

I'm curious to see how this turns out, though more and more it looks like my gaming group won't be adopting 4e, at least not any time soon. We shall see.
It's possible the power sources won't quite synch up perfectly with the four roles. Take a look at the martial power source. There is no martial controller, so it's possible there will be no divine controller, arcane defender, etc.
I posted my breakdown at ENWorld and will repost it here:

Bard, Barbarian, Druid, Sorcerer, and Shaman are all practically confirmed. That leaves the I, T, and W as the new and unknown classes. There was a cryptic comment about witches, warlocks, and wizards before, so my guess for W is a Witch class. Despite the gender connotations, as Wikipedia says, "...in legends and popular culture the stereotype is female; however males were also often referred to as witches." Witch seems like a primal class to me, possibly a controller.

That leaves I and T, and no divine classes yet. But it says "divine" right there on the cover, so likely those two would be the divine classes, brand new. I've tried to come up with names that fit, and best I can manage is Inquisitor and Theurge. Inquisitor sounds like a Striker class, focusing on finding and slaying enemies of the god. Theurge sounds more controllerish to me.

So my list:
Bard (Arcane leader)
Barbarian (Primal Defender)
Druid (Primal Hybrid)
Inquisitor (Divine Striker)
Shaman (Primal Leader)
Sorcerer (Arcane Controller)
Theurge (Divine Controller)
Witch (Primal Controller)

Seems a bit controller-heavy, but then again the PHBI was controller-light and striker-heavy. Not sure what the Druid will be a hybrid of, but it could help balance things out.
What you're missing is a Primal striker, may I suggest the Sorcerer as one?

Bel
Originally Posted by WotC_RichBaker In related news, I'm afraid I'm going to have to confiscate your 3.5 rulebooks, and force you to convert to the new edition. Where do you live?
Sorcerer has been confirmed as arcane by both the designers and a blurb from Arcane Power posted on the ENWorld Summer Camp, which unfortunately is gone now.

I think the druid may fill a striker as part of its hybrid role. After all, cat durid is 4 fite. ;)

*shamed for making that reference*
Yes, everything is Core in that the "Points of Light" setting is supposed to incorporate everything. You've got Warforged, Swordmages, and whatever else running around in a common environment.

Thanks to WotC's encouraging, I'll be allowing (and possibly having NPCs who are) Swordmages in my Eberron campaign. This isn't because I absolutely must have every book or every class, but because I like FR and will eventually run an FR campaign, and Swordmages sound fairly setting neutral (based on the Swordmage novel by Rich Baker) and can definitely fit in a high-magic setting like Eberron.

I'm still hoping for Killoren....

This looks like the closest fit (both Dryad and Shifter seem unlikely to me), however there's a decided lack of greenness about the PHB2 creature and Killoren doesn't fit any of the clues we've been given so far ;)
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Bard - Arcane Leader
Druid - Primal Leader
Illusionist- Arcane Controller
Shaman - Primal Controller
Sorcerer - Arcane Striker
Tempest - Divine Striker
Wild Mage - Primal (Arcane?) Striker

Thats what I predict. I have no facts to back this up just gut felling and what you can read here.

I like this list, but made some changes from what I think. I think "I" is more likely to be Illusionist, particularly with Arcane Power coming out one month after PHB2. Don't have any clue about the "T", but if Divine, it could just as easily be Templar.

I'm not sure about Wild Mage. Could just as easily be Witch. And power source could be either Arcane or Primal for either.
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