PHBII Races and Classes thoughts

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What do people think some of the new classes will be in the PHBII (which, i know, isn't coming out for a while)? What roles do you think they will play? What do you think their power sources will be?

Some of the options are:
Druid
Barbarian
Sorcerer
Bard
Monk
Psionic
Etc

Sources:
Nature
Ki
Elemental
Psi
etc.

With only 1 controller, who do you think will be added to that? Barbarian a new striker or a high HP / low armour defender? Psionic a controller or a ranged leader? How will Sorc. diferentiate itself from Warlock AND Wizard? Who else might use ki and psi power? Will Bards finally come into their own, as 3.5 suggested that they can?

Post your ideas and suggestions here! Lets get them creative juices a-flowin'!
Classes that have been specifically stated as appearing in the PH2 are the barbarian (primal), druid (primal), sorcerer (arcane controller), shaman (primal leader), and an unnamed flame-striking divine controller. Classes that have been partially or even completely designed, but have NOT been mentioned by the designers as necessarily appearing in the PH2, are the bard (arcane leader), illusionist (shadow), monk (ki striker), necromancer (shadow), and swordmage (arcane defender).

Mike Mearls has said the eight PH2 classes begin with the letters B, B, D, I, S, S, T, and W. He has also said that three of the eight PH2 classes will be entirely new to D&D, while the remaining five will be reworked 3e classes. Which is consistent with the barbarian and bard and druid and shaman and sorcerer appearing in that book, but isn't consistent with those who insist the necromancer or psion will make their 4e debut there.

Regarding power sources, other designers have said the PH2 will contain representatives from at least the arcane, divine, and primal sources. Nothing has been said either way about classes from the psi and/or shadow sources, but prospects for this don't look very good unless the PH2 class roster is expanded at the last minute to 10 or even 12 classes. And we can be quite certain that the ki source won't appear in the PH2, or else we'd surely see an "M" for the monk.
I thought that of those eight classes, only 3 of them are reworked 3e classes, and the remaining 5 are new classes ,not the other way around.
I thought that of those eight classes, only 3 of them are reworked 3e classes, and the remaining 5 are new classes ,not the other way around.

Mike restated what he meant to say later(I believe at the same time he corrected the b instead of r mistake).

It will be 3 totally new to d&d classes, and 5 classes that were around in some form(with 3 being pretty direct transitions, I'm guessing).
Ah. Cool. That makes sense.
illusionist (shadow),

Me and my friend have been wondering who would be 'shadow' user. The Illusionist seem like an odd choice.

Illusion is usually 'arcane' in nature, because it involving bending light and sound or 'mental' if the illusion is in the head of the target...

I'd see them as being Arcane or Psionic because of this... was Shadow actually confirmed?

Mike Mearls has said the eight PH2 classes begin with the letters B, B, D, I, S, S, T, and W.

[...]

Nothing has been said either way about classes from the psi and/or shadow sources, but prospects for this don't look very good unless the PH2 class roster is expanded at the last minute to 10 or even 12 classes. And we can be quite certain that the ki source won't appear in the PH2, or else we'd surely see an "M" for the monk.

Here's a wild guess...

One of the class could be a re-worked Samurai, with a power source based on Ki. Depending on which angle they run with, a Samurai could be a Leader, Striker or Defender.

He'd fit in the '5 old class, 3 new class'. His name start by S, so he also fits with the letter given above.
B, B, D, I, S, S, T, and W

Here's my guess.

Bard,
Barbarian,
Druid,
Illusionist,
Shaman,
Sorcerer,
Trader,
Wanderer

Might be wrong, but, eh.. what the hey ;)
Assuming the barbarian, bard, druid, shaman, and sorcerer do make their 4e debut in the PH2, here's how the eight classes stack up:

B arbarian
B ard
D ruid
I ?
S haman
S orcerer
T ?
W ?

Many people have speculated that each successive PH will include classes from exactly three power sources, as the PH1 did. If that is the case, then the PH2 will be for "arcane, divine, and primal heroes" and the PH3 will then be free to focus on "ki, psi, and shadow heroes". But even if the PH2 could potentially include more than three power sources, remember that six of the eight PH2 class slots are already spoken for: two arcane (bard and sorcerer), three primal (barbarian and druid and shaman), plus one divine (unnamed controller). Moreover, there's some reason to believe there will be two divine classes in the PH2 rather than only one, as the designers have said they want to cover four classes per splatbook and we'll see the release of the divine splatbook before the PH3. Which would leave only a single free class slot to be divvied up amongst four potential power sources (ki and psi and shadow plus primal).

Regarding illusion -- the designers have said the arcane power source is tied mainly to evocation, and that the bulk of the 3e wizard's spell list from other schools has been excised in order to leave room for specialist-wizard classes who would be powered by other sources. I believe illusionists and necromancers were specifically mentioned in this context, though I don't know that they've been confirmed as belonging to the same power source?
I believe illusionists and necromancers were specifically mentioned in this context, though I don't know that they've been confirmed as belonging to the same power source?

That's what make me raise an eyebrow, I have a hard time imagining that the same power that gives you power over the Undead would also allow you to create Illusions...

It's definitly going to be interesting how they explain that one!
Okay, Barbarian, Druid, Sorcerer and Shaman are confirmed, and Bard is pretty much a given.

This leaves us with, according to the cryptic hints of Mr. Mearls, classes whose names begin with I, T and W, one of which has to be a divine controller.

If the divine class didn't have to be a controller, I might suggest inquisitor- but that doesn't seem to fit the role... likewise, if Warpriest weren't a Cleric Paragon path, I'd suggest that as the divine controller...

However, something has literally just this moment struck me. What if the divine controller is a Theurge?

I doubt that the majority of these are right, but I'm going to suggest that the remaining classes in PHB 2 are as follows:

I- Illusionist (shadow striker/controller)
T- Theurge (divine controller)
W- Wrestler/Wardancer/Wild-Beast Tamer (I really haven't a clue what they'll use for W)
That's what make me raise an eyebrow, I have a hard time imagining that the same power that gives you power over the Undead would also allow you to create Illusions...

It's definitly going to be interesting how they explain that one!

Easy. The illusions are made from shadows(or shadow stuff). It's actually an old(perhaps older than arcane) way of explaining the "mind playing tricks on you" sort of thing.

Ever heard the term "jumping at shadows"?;)
How does this 'shadow stuff' then relate to Necromancy?

I don't have a problem with the idea that you create illusion with 'shadow' (even thought my rational mind tell me it's counter-nature... illusion are made of light, after all!) and let say that you can somehow also create sound with those. That works.

What make go 'eh?' is that this will be the same power source as Necromancer... from my point of view, necromancy and illusion are extremely removed from each other as far as 'style' of magic go.

All character that have a similar power source also have 'somewhat' matching themes. A paladin and cleric aren't the same, nor his a warlock or a wizard... but they definitly feel like brothers or at the very least, long lost cousins.

So how is that similarity going to be made between someone who plays mind trick and foul the senses... and someone who control undeads and drain the life from your body?



I suppose they might make the Illusionist much darker... somewhat like the Nightmare Spinner prestige class in 3.5e.
I believe, more confidently as time goes on, that the Arcane and Divine sources will be completed in PHB2.

By 'complete', I mean that there are enough classes for a power sourcebook. That is, at least four. Being complete also carries the implication that new classes for that source may be postponed for a while, so other sources can get their turn.

The martial source is complete. The arcane and divine sources need two classes each to complete them. We know that sorcerer and bard will be there, taking care of the arcane source. Since there seems to be a divine controller, I think another divine class is there. Which doesn't have to be a striker, of course.

We know that the primal source will be represented by the druid and barbarian (Plus the shaman, most likely, but I've yet to see official confirmation of this class). If there's a fourth primal class, this will complete the primal source as well, paving the way for a Primal Source book later on.
How does this 'shadow stuff' then relate to Necromancy?

I don't have a problem with the idea that you create illusion with 'shadow' (even thought my rational mind tell me it's counter-nature... illusion are made of light, after all!) and let say that you can somehow also create sound with those. That works.

What make go 'eh?' is that this will be the same power source as Necromancer... from my point of view, necromancy and illusion are extremely removed from each other as far as 'style' of magic go.

All character that have a similar power source also have 'somewhat' matching themes. A paladin and cleric aren't the same, nor his a warlock or a wizard... but they definitly feel like brothers or at the very least, long lost cousins.

So how is that similarity going to be made between someone who plays mind trick and foul the senses... and someone who control undeads and drain the life from your body?



I suppose they might make the Illusionist much darker... somewhat like the Nightmare Spinner prestige class in 3.5e.

Quite simply because the "shadow stuff" or shadows or whatever they choose to describe it can also create the semblance of life, or in other words the undead.

Arcane magic still produces illusions(I think there are a few illusion powers in the phb, and there is a whole article devoted to illusion powers for the wizard), but not the same kind as shadow magic(though they can produce similar effects).

It's the same way psionics can also produce illusions, but they are through penetration of the mind. All these things can produce illusions, but just in their unique ways.

And as for why arcane magic doesn't include necromancy, it is because arcane magic doesn't come from the same stuff as shadow magic, and lacks the ability to prodcue the semblance of life.

I can go into more detail, but this is just the way I view it and Wotc may describe it differently.

I'm just proving that if you look at it different ways, it can make sense or it can make no sense. It all depends on how you look at it.
Oh, I never said it made no sense... all I said is that it'll be interesting to see how they make it work. ;p
Oh, I never said it made no sense... all I said is that it'll be interesting to see how they make it work. ;p

True. I think it will be something along the lines of what I'm thinking.

As it stands, it seems that undead come from the shadowfell, which is the very likely source of shadow magic. So something there is permeating into the dead and making them undead.

We'll see what they come up with.
On the subject of shadow as an illusionist power source, remember the Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells? Illusion spells that mimicked other schools with partially-real effects, dependent for their efficiency on targets' conviction that they were real (I love that). And I believe that spells like Phantasmal Killer and Phantasmal Strangler (there were more of those) also had the "shadow" descriptor in 3.5e. So illusion being tied to shadow is a well-established idea, and it also suggests that a shadow-based illusionist will be along the lines of those scary death-effecty spells, rather than the happy-go-lucky gnome illusionist who also does birthday parties.
Regarding power sources, other designers have said the PH2 will contain representatives from at least the arcane, divine, and primal sources. Nothing has been said either way about classes from the psi and/or shadow sources, but prospects for this don't look very good unless the PH2 class roster is expanded at the last minute to 10 or even 12 classes. And we can be quite certain that the ki source won't appear in the PH2, or else we'd surely see an "M" for the monk.

Looks like you were spot on:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1052509

Only arcane, divine, and primal in the phb2.

And if I is for illusionist like I think it is, that may mean it will be arcane after all.;)
So, the PHB II is confirmed as Arcane, Divine and Primal Heroes.

I am surprised at the lack of Psionics being included, what with Eberron coming out next year. And I want my monk (Ki Striker?)!

So, my speculations:

-Barbarian = Primal Defender
-Bard = Arcane Leader
-Druid = Primal Striker (hybrid - controller?)
-Shaman = Primal Leader
-Sorcerer = Arcane Controller

As for the other 3, I guess these are the 3 that I heard will be completely new classes to D&D - maybe a Divine Striker and Controller or something and another fellow?
Here's my guesses for the I, T, and W (given Barbarian, Bard, Shaman, Sorceror, and Druid all seem to be safe bets at this point):

I nquisitor (Divine Striker)
T empest (Divine Controller)
W yrd (Primal Controller)

With the above classes, you have:

Barbarian: Primal Defender (hybrid striker)
Bard: Arcane Leader
Druid: Primal Striker (hybrid leader)
Inquisitor: Divine Striker
Shaman: Primal Leader
Sorceror: Arcane Controller
Tempest: Divine Controller
Wyrd: Primal Controller

1 Defender, 2 Leaders, 2 Strikers, and 3 Controllers - fits with the pattern shown in the PHB1, fits with the letters and power sources revealed, fits with the letters. It all seems to fit to me.
Magius out.
T empest (Divine Controller)

I heard a good one for T = Totemist?

...Templar?
I am surprised at the lack of Psionics being included, what with Eberron coming out next year. And I want my monk (Ki Striker?)!

I'm suspecting that Eberron might have in the Eberron Player's Guide, the classes needed to play in Eberron. It'd make sense, you know, to move the core classes for a setting into their own little home.
I'm suspecting that Eberron might have in the Eberron Player's Guide, the classes needed to play in Eberron. It'd make sense, you know, to move the core classes for a setting into their own little home.

Well, I know the Swordmage (arcane defender) will debut in the FR Player's Guide, so maybe there will a Psionic class in the Eberron Player's Guide.
PHI had:

Cleric (divine leader)
Fighter (martial defender)
Paladin (divine defender)
Ranger (martial striker)
Rogue (martial striker)
Warlock (arcane striker)
Warlord (martial leader)
Wizard (arcane controller)

PHII may have:

Barbarian (primal defender)
Bard (arcane leader)
Druid (primal controller)
Illusionist (arcane controller)
Shaman (primal leader)
Sorcerer (arcane defender)
Theurge (divine striker)
Warden (primal striker)
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. --George Orwell There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. --Howard Zinn He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster. --Friedrich Nietzsche Devil\'s Brigade
Well, I know the Swordmage (arcane defender) will debut in the FR Player's Guide, so maybe there will a Psionic class in the Eberron Player's Guide.

It's just a thought. Who knows. I know people are saying it'd be a "money grab", but personally, I LIKE the concept of having all the books I need for a core setting in the player's HB for that setting and the CS.

Personally, I'm trying to decide if I want to run in the realms or eberron. I picked up ECS yesterday, and am having a time of it trying to convert it.
PHII may have:

-Illusionist (arcane controller)

-Sorcerer (arcane defender)

-The Illusionist will most likely have the Shadow power source.

-The Sorcerer has been confirmed as an Arcane Controller. The Arcane Defender is the Swordmage.
-The Illusionist will most likely have the Shadow power source.

While that is certainly possible, the illusion spells in the latest Dragon release have them as arcane, hence my guess.

-The Sorcerer has been confirmed as an Arcane Controller. The Arcane Defender is the Swordmage.

Just a shot in the dark anyways. I was thinking that they may change the theme of the sorcerer and we already have a arcane striker and arcane controller. I thought they may go for a different concept.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. --George Orwell There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. --Howard Zinn He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster. --Friedrich Nietzsche Devil\'s Brigade
I would like to see a reworked samurai class.

The 3.5 version honestly sucked. I just played a paladin and called his bastard sword a katana.
Bard - Arcane Leader
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Druid - Primal Striker
Sorcerer - Arcane Controller
Shaman - Primal Leader
Totemist - Primal Controller
Inquisitor - Divine Striker
Witch - Divine Controller

Bold means the role/class has been confirmed.
Bard - Arcane Leader
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Druid - Primal Striker
Sorcerer - Arcane Controller
Shaman - Primal Leader
Totemist - Primal Controller
Inquisitor - Divine Striker
Witch - Divine Controller

Bold means the role/class has been confirmed.

From last night:

http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?t=45766

Post 14
My guesses:

Bard(arcane leader)

Sorcerer(arcane controller)

Inquisitor(divine striker)

Witch(divine controller)

Barbarian(primal striker)

Druid(primal controller mostly)

Shaman(primal leader)

Totemist(primal defender)

Great minds think alike or something?:D

Just a few differences on roles, though.
From last night:

http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?t=45766

Post 14

Great minds think alike or something?:D

Just a few differences on roles, though.

You realize that that thread can't be viewed by non member right? Cause I don't see anything. Also they said Druid would be doing shape-shifting thing, that doesn't sound very controlly to me.
Sorry, I forgot.

And the druid is not solely focused on shapeshifting(though it is their main focus). And we also don't know the nature of the shapeshifting.

So at the moment, that tells me nothing of the role.

I filled in druid based on what I think the others will be. It was said that the shaman would be a leader, and I strongly suspect that the barbarian is a striker(focused on movement and high damage in 3e). The totemist may very well be the controller and the druid the defender/whatever other role(s)(since it is supposed to be a hybrid).

And I'm not set on that. That is just what I'm thinking at the moment.
Wild guesses and top of the head reactions. nothing should be treated as fact.

T=Tempest.....I kinda like it, would make a great name for a primal striker...all stormy and such. I'd play a tempest.

t=totemist....meh, that was an arcanum class wasn't it? doesn't excite me. Would have to be primal if it shows up here, but what could he do that a shaman or barabarian (past totemic type classes) don't already cover.

I=Illusionist, was almost promised a looong time ago, but the class acts:wizards makes me wonder if they aren't going to default to just giving wizards some illusion in upcomming things. I'm losing hope that this might appear. plus see my 'probably only 2 arcane classes' argument under witch.

I=inquisitor, would almost have to be a divine striker, not a bad name for one.....except that it carries a "religion carried too far for a good aligned deity to really approve of" vibe. Hopefully if they go this route they get some good spin doctors and work on its PR.

Incantrix=AAAAAAAAAH!

W=witch, Meh, just sounds like a NPC class to me, and carries ALOT of baggage. I can't image it would be divine, would have to be arcane, and i doubt they'll have more than Bard and sorceror in this book (4 primal, 2 arcane, 2 divine)

W=Witchblade, would make me happy. Stab them witches you divine striker. I don't have my hopes up :P

W=War(divine word), seems very possible, if only from past patterns. Nothing really to go on. doesn't excite me now, but the doors open.

W=wilder (or wildling or wild one or ...) some primal something? meh, i think barbarian, druid, shaman and tempest (very hopeful) will be the 4 primal classes.


anyway, i predict the unknowns will be a primal strike, divine striker and divine controller (or another divine leader).
Classes that have been specifically stated as appearing in the PH2 are the barbarian (primal), druid (primal), sorcerer (arcane controller), shaman (primal leader), and an unnamed flame-striking divine controller. Classes that have been partially or even completely designed, but have NOT been mentioned by the designers as necessarily appearing in the PH2, are the bard (arcane leader), illusionist (shadow), monk (ki striker), necromancer (shadow), and swordmage (arcane defender).

Mike Mearls has said the eight PH2 classes begin with the letters B, B, D, I, S, S, T, and W. He has also said that three of the eight PH2 classes will be entirely new to D&D, while the remaining five will be reworked 3e classes. Which is consistent with the barbarian and bard and druid and shaman and sorcerer appearing in that book, but isn't consistent with those who insist the necromancer or psion will make their 4e debut there.

Regarding power sources, other designers have said the PH2 will contain representatives from at least the arcane, divine, and primal sources. Nothing has been said either way about classes from the psi and/or shadow sources, but prospects for this don't look very good unless the PH2 class roster is expanded at the last minute to 10 or even 12 classes. And we can be quite certain that the ki source won't appear in the PH2, or else we'd surely see an "M" for the monk.

Can you cite this source?
Bard, pshh he ment monk

But some people like bards, pssh i want a useful monk

Did you hear about the monk?

I heard about the monk

So is it true about the monk?

Shit yeah, monks are awesome

Travis likes monks, alot

We can tell Travis likes monks alot

All in all, i want a monk, i love monks, even though people didnt I did.

-JediPiiman