swordmage

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As a gish lover i may ask: When will they launch this class or anyother gish class for 4E?
any hints on what swordmage will look like ?
The Swordmage class will be launched in the FR Players Guide.

Bel
Originally Posted by WotC_RichBaker In related news, I'm afraid I'm going to have to confiscate your 3.5 rulebooks, and force you to convert to the new edition. Where do you live?
As a gish lover i may ask: When will they launch this class or anyother gish class for 4E?
any hints on what swordmage will look like ?

September, I believe, in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide.

Things we've seen already:

* Instead of wearing actual armour, they conjure magic armour. Shields, too, I think.
* They get lots of magic sword-style stuff. Think lighting your sword on fire as you swing it at somebody; it sounds tres metal.
* They get some close bursts and blasts, akin to stuff like the wizard's burning hands, I believe.
* They can teleport.
* They get a melee attack that teleports the target.
* I think it's been implied that they do get spells similar to the wizard's Resistance.
* If memory serves, Strength and Intelligence have been noted as key attributes for the swordmage; my best guess is that this will be similar to the way that Strength and Charisma are key attributes for the paladin.
* I hear they use spellbooks!
* I also hear they don't get Ritual Casting for free, but I would imagine they get Arcana as a class skill, putting Ritual Casting within one feat's reach (and it does make thematic sense).
* Notice how the fighter minors in striker and the paladin minors in leader? It's looking like the swordmage will be taking its minor in controller.

The way the swordmage is shaping up, the world may not be ready for its awesomeness. So yes, I'm expecting great things, especially since it is, right out of the box, exactly what so many people were trying to do with their melee/arcanist builds in 3.x (arcanists that use their spells to do frontliner stuff, not wizardy stuff), adding rituals is just a feat away, and having Intelligence as a key score lines it up neatly for multiclassing into wizard if you want a little more blastiness to round it out.
Im really looking forward to seeing this class aswell esp for converting my swashbuckler mage into 4.0.
Any chance we'll get a preview of the first 10 lvl or so ahead in time in Dragon?
They are basically the Arcane Defender
They are basically the Arcane Defender

Oh noes, i was actually expecting an striker/controller

But thanx for the infos, im still exited to see this class fully
They are basically the Arcane Defender

=)
Suits me perfectly, even though some controller abilities would be cool aswell.
i was thinking something more like a spellsword.

- Allowing you to use some nasty military weapons as implements.
- Channel spell like power for you to cast spells as a melee power, loosing in range but adding your proficiency bonus.
- Good de-buff spells
- Minor sustained stuff like bigbys hands etc...
- lots of force spells. (because force is cool)


the best defense is a good ofense
They are basically the Arcane Defender

I think if it is an Arcane Defender, it should be able to minor in Controller or Striker, or a mix of the 2, debending on whichever build matches the player's taste. I was imagining it as a Striker, but after having read the above, stated with such confidense, I am already thinking of my Duskblade who died so horribly on the jungle trail in the Shackled City.

I can imagine a defender/controller arcane class as being wicked powerful, even if it does not deal as much uber damage as an Arcane Striker might. A Striker/Contoller would be awesome too, and so would a Defender/Striker. The Duskblade in the original PHBII was more like a Striker in 4e, but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean anything in this brand new game of D&D.

I'm really looking foreward to this also. I might even buy the Forgotten Realms setting just for the Duskblade, oh, I mean Swordmage. :D
The coolest feature about spellsword was that he could use even fullplate and cast at no ASF. But in 4e its not the same, since now you add you intelligence to AC, the top armor for every arcane character now is hide armor.

They should make the class heavy armor oriented, something like: you get int bonus to damage while wearing heavy armor, or you can use your int instead of strength while casting powers taht require strength while wearing heavy, some stuff like that.
As my PC is mostly at sea I have no use for heavy armour, but I see what you mean.
according to belladona5012 :
* Instead of wearing actual armour, they conjure magic armour. Shields, too, I think.

Maybe, since its made of Force you could use that at sea no problem. But as a conjuration it could be dispelled and now tahts a drawback



and hey! from michael kormacks website, one of the wizards official illustrators i found that picture here:
http://www.komarckart.com/bk_cov25.html
and hey! from michael kormacks website, one of the wizards official illustrators i found that picture here:
http://www.komarckart.com/bk_cov25.html

Quick, slightly off-topic, question: What does that picture have to do with this topic? Sure, it's a guy in wierd maybe-magic-looking armour, but it has no relevance to the discussion. You don't see people linking to their favourite art of elves in a topic about forest-based campaigns, do you?

I wonder if they will just conjure armour rather than wearing it. It would pretty much have to stack with real armour, since when making the Warforged they decided that "It’s better for the game if you, the player, can use the nifty armor you buy or find. If your race’s natural armor doesn’t stack with that armor, what’s the point of having it?", and the same would apply for armour-boosting powers. It would probably come out the same AC whether a Swordmage is wearing armour or not, since Intelligence is supposed to be important for them, so I hope that they don't decide that it won't stack with real armour.
I think if it is an Arcane Defender, it should be able to minor in Controller or Striker, or a mix of the 2, debending on whichever build matches the player's taste.

Like I say, my guess is a minor in controller.

Maybe, since its made of Force you could use that at sea no problem. But as a conjuration it could be dispelled and now tahts a drawback

Probably not. Dispelling effects have been toned down a lot, and since this sounds like it'll be the swordmage's primary source of protection, I'd be surprised if it could be dispelled.

I wonder if they will just conjure armour rather than wearing it. It would pretty much have to stack with real armour, since when making the Warforged they decided that "It’s better for the game if you, the player, can use the nifty armor you buy or find. If your race’s natural armor doesn’t stack with that armor, what’s the point of having it?", and the same would apply for armour-boosting powers. It would probably come out the same AC whether a Swordmage is wearing armour or not, since Intelligence is supposed to be important for them, so I hope that they don't decide that it won't stack with real armour.

My best guess is that it'd stack with cloth AC, and some forms of it may overlap with Dex/Int to AC instead of stacking with it (akin to heavy armour).

Now, what I am hoping is that the swordmage does not have to follow the Defender Dress Code (i.e., conjuring visible armour as opposed to an invisible shield of force). Because dress codes bother me.
Things we've seen already:

* Instead of wearing actual armour, they conjure magic armour. Shields, too, I think.
* They get some close bursts and blasts, akin to stuff like the wizard's burning hands, I believe.
* I think it's been implied that they do get spells similar to the wizard's Resistance.
* I hear they use spellbooks!

Speaking as someone who's read the book Swordmage, if the main character follows the actual swrdmage class rules we can confirm those guesses. Also, from the descriptions Int does sound like a key ability, and though I can't say whether they get ritual casting or not I do recall him using one or two rituals.
what about weapon implements? any chance of good military weapons as implements?
If you can choose any weapon with high critical as implement i think you could still do good as an striker.
sorry for the double post but new info just showed up on ENworld boards:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=233119

So the swordmage wont be a gish-like class, instead it will be some sort of arcane defender and thats a little sad imho.
sorry for the double post but new info just showed up on ENworld boards:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=233119

So the swordmage wont be a gish-like class, instead it will be some sort of arcane defender and thats a little sad imho.

How is this making the Swordmage not gish? A gish is a character that uses martial skill and arcane prowess together in battle. The swordmage is an arcane-based warrior. He attacks with an ensorcelled blade and protects himself with magical wards. What about that is not gish?

Because he doesn't get ranged spells he isn't a mage? He teleports people, shoots lightning and acid from his blade.. whats the problem? He just uses his blade as a focus, unlike other mage's orbs, wands and staves.

edit: I'm sorry, he actually DOES get ranged spells.
How is this making the Swordmage not gish? A gish is a character that uses martial skill and arcane prowess together in battle. The swordmage is an arcane-based warrior. He attacks with an ensorcelled blade and protects himself with magical wards. What about that is not gish?

Semantics coming up!

I believe the usual use of "gish" on these boards implies someone who uses melee at short range and magic at long range--he'll fireball opponents, then close in with a sword. A gish can also be mistaken for either pure melee or pure magic based on observing their fighting at different times; the "gish" name originally comes from the githyanki name for a fighter/wizard. The swordmage, on the other hand, both focuses on more close-range than long-range magic and uses magic instead of armor and shield rather than casting in mundane armor and shield.

Basically, a gish falls between "arcanist with a sword" and "fully complementary magic and weapons." When the devs first mentioned the swordmage they said something along the lines of "One thing the swordmage is not is a gish." That led to some discussions that determined that classes like the psychic warrior, duskblade, and the like aren't gishes, because they use magic and melee combined, whereas the traditional gish has separate silos for magic and melee--someone who casts a lightning bolt before charging in is a gish; someone who channels a spell through his sword is not.

Now, I may be completely off base on this one, but from (A) what I've seen on the boards, particularly CharOp, (B) the discussions about what makes a gish, and (C) the devs' statements that swordmage != gish, that may be where Poder Miser?vel is coming from.
CharOp boards are where I'm getting alot of my basis for the term. Alot of the Gish handbooks have one or two types of gish who use their magic to enhance their melee, either through buffing themselves, enhancing their damaging attacks, or helping to shape the combat. It isn't the definition of gish, but its one of them.

The Swordmage has a number of large area attacks, they're just centered around him.
Heck, he even gets a lightning bolt as a daily.

edit: In the end though, I suppose it depends on a person's own definition of the term.
Seriously, all you need to do to predict the swordmage's future powers and role is just create a character that starts out as a mage, then multiclasses into the fighter class.
Hah, I figured it'd be the other way around. Swordmage is a melee'er, he has the HP and the AC to take some hits.

And we already know some of their powers and their role as defenders.. though I imagine they'll be defenders with some controller or striker emphasis.
The coolest feature about spellsword was that he could use even fullplate and cast at no ASF.

I suppose here's where we agree to disagree. What made them interesting to me was the channeled spell thing, which the Duskblade wound up doing better.

The Swordmage seems like what I've really been searching for. An effective melee spellcaster, not just a spellcaster who's competent in melee, but one who uses its spells for melee uses. The magic armour works amazingly for what I'm going towards. I want someone who just seems to be walking about normally, but has a few hidden talents. In the book Geran's magic armour does just that, people are always completely surprised when suddenly he survives a sword-swing only because at a crucial moment their swords were deflected by his unseen wards.