What Classes Do you Want to See in PHB2 and Future Releasses?

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They have Primal, Elemental, Ki, Psionic, and Shadow Power types now. Hopefully they can squeeze them all in, but if not I'm content to wait for quality, but here goes:

Druid- their was something about it being a mostly shapechanging class- I hope not. Here is how I would like to see it (Wishful thinking, I know)

Druid (Primal) Leader, with a heavy side of Controller (raining natures fury upon your enemies)

Woaden (Primal) Defender, stick this one with the shapechanging-ness, that way the concept is still available without mucking up Druid

and

Barbarian (Primal) Striker, maybe some defender-ish-ness, but I see the Barbarian as throwing himself with his crazy axe for heavy damage more than being 'sticky'

For Elemental I would take a guess at

Bard (Elemental) Leader obviously, and

Sorcerer (Elemental) Controller, though for some reason I keep picturing him as a striker

For Ki

Monk (Ki) Striker all the way

We also know that Sword Mage (Arcane) Defender will be in the new Faerun, and Artificer (Arcane?) Leader is most likely to be in Eberron.

After this all the other classes seem a little more blurry (Sorry guys if I missed any) but here are some of the things I could see:

Wu Jen (Ki) Controller? kind of like a from-a-distance jedi, or Gaara from Naruto
Illusionist (Shadow) Controller, or maybe Leader
Assasin (Shadow) Striker
Psion (Psionic) Controller (mind control!)
Mentor (Psionic) Leader
Mindblade (Psionic) Striker

Some things that I would like to see, but would have to come out once they've fixed the rules for PC pets and summons are-

Necromancer (Shadow) Controller (Maaaybe Defender)
Beastmaster (Primal) Controller, maybe have two or three stronger beasties doing his bidding, and
Summoner (Arcane) Defender, big-daddy monster pet


So what do you guys think? What are we likely to see, and what would you like to see?
Where did you find a list of power types... If I had to guys I would go with 3 for PHB2 maybe Primal, Elemental and Psion for PHB2 and then the rest in PHB3 as a guess since they did 3 in the first book.

Also, I saw an interview the writers of DnD (I think on the MMO Report on G4 TV) that PHB 2 was looking like January 2009 release. But www.dnd4.com is saying (and no link to where they got it) that it won't be until June of 2009.

Anyone have a link to concrete info on what Wizard is thinking for a release date?
The omission of the bard is nigh-inexcusable. I hadn't taken that verbage in Races And Classes about bards still being under development to mean that they wouldn't make the PHB. Jeez.

Maybe it's no big deal to most folks, if all we have to do is buy another US$35 hardback in six months, but good golly--I got excited about 4E in large part because I want to revisit an old character, a Viking skald modeled in 2E Skills & Powers after the old green-book version with rune magic. A friend who's been playing 4E for a while has been praising the nearly GURPS-like character customization available. Now I open the much-vaunted new edition to find bards missing? Along with barabarians and half-orcs?

Dang. Was there simply a big rush to get the books out before con season? Will there be online errata to correct these oversights, or should I wait for 4.4E in three years? Seriously, though, if this is only half of the PHB, I will expect a lot from the sequel; I had thought that one of the purposes of 4E was to defrag the million-and-one separate books from the third edition.

I don't object to having eighty-five classes and nine thousand paths for same. Heck, I didn't realize until yesterday that all three books were coming out together...but now it turns out that this is only three of four "core" (IMO) books, and we're nearly back to that weird first-edition conceit that bards are an optional, barely-tolerated class to be used only if your GM allows on alternate Thursdays, and must be hidden in the back of the book where for some reason players won't notice. Very odd.

But players who want to be barbarians can roll up fighters, or house-rule something that'll work, mostly. If you crack the book wanting to be a half-orc (like my first long-running character, back in the seventies), you're not exactly welcomed by the new edition, and for me, wanting to be a very special kind of bard, well, there's a big hole in 4E that I would hope will soon be patched. I don't require skalds this instant, but leaving out plain ol' bards? Astonishing.

I'm glad to hear about another book of classes on the way, and will have to assume that some sort of bards will be there. Hey, 4E looks good overall (and my wife and I may still play it someday), if not necessarily an improvement on any previous edition, but this wanna-be bard is also left with just the tiniest ripped-off feeling.

The old game-design adage is, "the game's not done until the bear can shoot laser beams from its eyes." WotC went and left out the danged bear.
Monks
Monks
MONKS!!!


And some Psionic classes.

I don't mind waiting though. I've never played a Druid or a Bard and only 1 Barbarian, so those classes being delayed doesn't bug me. But I do hope everything that was left out of PH 1 will be in PH 2. Then there will be Necromancer's Advanced Players Handbook (as I recall that was the title). The basic idea of it is to include all the stuff that the PH left out.
Honestly, I hope to see an update to the Soulknife (and Psionics in general). I like the idea of putting different tricks into the Psychic Swiss Army Knife.

I like the idea of the regular Psions basically being Mentok the Mind Taker (and I intend to play one that way!) A literal controller. (pulls out wii-mote)

I forget where I read about the Shaman class, but I look forward to see if it will work. In the past, when D&D has called something a shaman, it has usually sucked. (Dragon shaman, I'm mocking you!) We'll see if 4E can change this.

I want to see if the bard will not suck this time around. Bards are always fun to RP, too bad they sucked mechanically.
The Druid is a Shifter class now, and the Shaman will take over the other side of the Druid that is nature and spells.

The Bard was a joke in 3rd edition. Period. I understand the need to completely reinvent the class and get away from the sissy like music crutch of the class. Oratory, folks, storytelling and prose. Keep music for those that want it (Oh, Brave Sir Robin, He bravely ran away!!) but offer more choice of how a bard uses/access their talents.

I also hope for the Soul Knife instead of the Physic Warrior. One that uses both parts of the classes in the new edition.

Here is what I look to happen, class wise...

Psionic

-Psion

-Soul Knife/Physic Warrior

Arcane

- Bard

Primal

- Berserker/Barbarian

- Druid (Shifter version)

- Sorcerer

Shadow

- Necromancer

- Illusionist


This is what I came to in another thread like this one.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Clerics are missing, too. I know, "but they're in the PHB." No, they aren't. That's just a class that has the name "cleric."

It's inexcusable. Just like 1e, every cleric is the same as every other. Every god grants the same basic stuff. Sure, you can take a channel divinity feat that a cleric of another god can't, but all clerics get access to the same limited powers.

I hope they fix this in the PHB2, or some other supplement, where being a cleric of a different deity actually counts for something. Role-playing isn't the problem. The lack of mechanical support for those choices is.
Clerics are missing, too. I know, "but they're in the PHB." No, they aren't. That's just a class that has the name "cleric."

It's inexcusable. Just like 1e, every cleric is the same as every other. Every god grants the same basic stuff. Sure, you can take a channel divinity feat that a cleric of another god can't, but all clerics get access to the same limited powers.

I hope they fix this in the PHB2, or some other supplement, where being a cleric of a different deity actually counts for something. Role-playing isn't the problem. The lack of mechanical support for those choices is.

Classes can means many things - at how Bards changed over the editions.

And frankly, the 3,X Clerics was not so customizable.

This IS THE CLERIC. You don't needs specific rules for roleplaying.
In particular for Ki
Monks (drunken master, Dim Mak master (death touch), Wu Tang (for those of the wuxia / crouching tiger variety), Wu Jen (think Avatar Last Airbender ) paragon paths)
Ninja (ghost face killer, jonin, shinobi paragon paths
Samurai (Daimyo, Ronin, Iajutsu Master paragon paths)
Classes can means many things - at how Bards changed over the editions.

And frankly, the 3,X Clerics was not so customizable.

This IS THE CLERIC. You don't needs specific rules for roleplaying.

If you read my post, you see that I was talking about game mechanics, not role-playing. 3.x clerics were customizable, and domain spell lists, when used properly, did indeed set clerics apart. I still think 2e really did the best job of making clerics (or, rather, specialty priests) different from one another.

This just takes us back to AD&D where, essentially, every cleric is the same.
Like others here, I'd like to see the classes originally in the PHB 3.5 that didn't make the cut to the PHB1 4.0. Barbarians, bards, druids, monks, and sorcerers all exist in both my homebrew campaigns. I'd like to see them all updated to 4.0. And I don't want to have to wait a whole year to see them.

A fully fleshed out roster of psionic classes would be appealing, as well. Defender (psychic warrior), Striker (soulknife), leader (ardent), and controller (psion) can all be made and I would not be unhappy.
Sorcerer the true mage!

Sorcerers use high magic not ritualistic magic like wizards.
they cast all at will with no somatic, verbal, or material components needed. they cast from within, they use the weave directly not through a focus (ritual). intelligence should be the prime req. not charisma. will is from the mind not the face. or wisdom. as they have dragon blood flowing through them, there magic is a spell like ability. they do not use spell books. (although they can have and read spell/ritual books to use as a guide to learn the feel for spells and the magic behind it) there mind is there spell book. (they learn a spell they know it) they can learn the spell behind the rituals that wizards use. they are limited in how many ritual spells they can learn. (they are learned after all) and of course they can use scrolls and magic items as well. using a wand, orb, or staff as a focus is fine.
Here are the classes I'd like to see:

Defender
Barbarian (Primal? Martial?)

Samurai (Ki)

Striker
Ninja (ki)

Monk (ki)

Swashbuckler (martial)

Scout (primal or martial)

Spellthief (arcane, too good a name for a class to disappear)

Leader

Bard (arcane?)

Controller

Druid (primal)

Sorcerer (arcane)

Wu Jen (ki or arcane)

Psion (psi)

Wilder (psi)

That's all I can think of right now.
Professor Pacali, Keeper of the Pickled Punks, Resident of the Carnival. (Please do not call me a "barker". It is insulting.)
In particular for Ki
Monks (drunken master, Dim Mak master (death touch), Wu Tang (for those of the wuxia / crouching tiger variety), Wu Jen (think Avatar Last Airbender ) paragon paths)
Ninja (ghost face killer, jonin, shinobi paragon paths
Samurai (Daimyo, Ronin, Iajutsu Master paragon paths)

Agree here would love to see samurai as a real class not some half assed add-on , coughcompletewarriorcough, and the different styles mentioned above being very good ideas for Paragon paths. Especially iajutsu master and drunken master, both lead to very different mechanical and role playing paths.

Love to see and non nerfed psionics, Soulknife & Psychic Warrior included. If summoning was such a huge problem last edition just change it completely or leave it off the power list for Psions. No more polymorph so why not limited to no summoning for psions since that seemed to be such an issue.

Druid and barbarian are sorely missed if only for the interesting options involved there.
Ki: not the "asian" power source plz!
Monk, Soulknife, Incarnate?

Psionic:
Psion, Psychic Warrior, Wilder, Ardent?

Primal:
Barbarian, Shaman?, Druid

Elemental:
Sorcerer?, Shaman?

Shadow:
Illusionist, Ninja

Arcane:
Bard

Martial:
Samurai


I'd also be really delighted to see if some classes got combined. Barbarian or Shaman taking the Totemists stuff? Monk & Psywar have always been close in my eyes. Soulknife, PsyWar, Wu Jen, Samurai, Shugenja etc could easily be paragon paths rather than entire classes, though I think it'd be cool to have them as full progressions.
I wanna see them doing something that were prestige classes previosly like an arcane archer or a shadow dancer.

but of course they need bards and sorcerers.
If you read my post, you see that I was talking about game mechanics, not role-playing. 3.x clerics were customizable, and domain spell lists, when used properly, did indeed set clerics apart. I still think 2e really did the best job of making clerics (or, rather, specialty priests) different from one another.

This just takes us back to AD&D where, essentially, every cleric is the same.

They're only the same if you're only defining your character mechanically. Cleric used to be an overwhelmingly complicated class. But fine, if you want to take your home campaign and toss in restrictions and stuff for your deities, invent a bunch of deity-specific feats, go ahead, no one's stopping you. The rules are loose and simple enough to practically encourage it.

But me? I fail to see any problems that can't be solved by a good GM and/or good roleplaying. *shrug*
All of those Power sources are listed in the 4e PH (somebody check me on this) So, Druid is the shape-shifter and Shaman is the other side of Druid? Where'd you find that out or is it just a conjecture?

Love to play a monk in 4e but unfortunately it looks like that power source will be saved for a later. Do you think they will add any new classes like Warlord in PH2 and 3? I kind of like Warlord, but I don't see any glaring holes in other areas. And what do you think Elemental is focused on?
I want my Barbarian and Druid back
They're only the same if you're only defining your character mechanically. Cleric used to be an overwhelmingly complicated class. But fine, if you want to take your home campaign and toss in restrictions and stuff for your deities, invent a bunch of deity-specific feats, go ahead, no one's stopping you. The rules are loose and simple enough to practically encourage it.

But me? I fail to see any problems that can't be solved by a good GM and/or good roleplaying. *shrug*

In general, I agree with you on your last point. However, even the designers, in the PHB, indicate that things are separated on both role-playing *and* mechanics.

Page 16, 1st column, last paragraph:

"Leaders (the role) fulfill their function through mechanics; party leaders are born through role-playing."

And that is precisely my point. Clerics of different gods are certainly (or should be) separated, in part, by role-playing. But they should also be certainly be separated by mechanics, and they aren't. In this version, mechanically, a cleric is a cleric is a cleric.

What I would like to see is some mechanical differentiation between clerics of different gods. They would fulfill their roles in a mechanically different fashion from clerics of other gods. As the game is now, that isn't really possible.
Shouldn't we fill out the roles for the power sources already established before moving onto new ones?
I see the Monk coming back as a divine striker. Not sure what a divine controller would be like, someone who specializes in glyphs and wards to create hazardous areas for enemies perhaps.
A spellsword type class would make a good arcane defender, or the arcane defender could be an illusionist who uses false images and noises to confuse enemies and draw them away from other vulnerable players. The sorcerer should be an arcane leader, it maintains the charismatic aspects of the class.
I think it would be cool to have the Barbarian as a martial controller. Imagine a class with enough mobility to leap out from a protected area, like behind the defender, into a mob. He spreads out damage over the whole group for a round or two, after that he needs some healing so he leaps back behind the defender to get some help from the party's leader.
Roles are a tool for the designers and not something that should be made into a running tally. Not every power source needs a class for every role.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Bards, bards, bards.

Finally they get some love and respectability in 3e only to be left out of fourth entirely?
Bladesinger. (paragon path)

Class features:

Song of celerity:
(Encounter, minor)
Personal
Allows the bladesinger to use an at-will or encounter power of no more than 1/4 the bladesinger's level as part of this power's affect.

Bladesong style:
(Encounter, minor)
Personal, Stance
For the remainder of the encounter, the bladesinger may double any applicable dex or int bonuses to armor class or reflex defense if wearing light or no armor.

Bladesinger's Assault:
(Daily, standard)
Melee, Weapon
4[w] + dex damage, and the bladesinger may use one at-will or encounter of no more than 1/2 the bladesinger's level as part of the attack.
I don't really think there is need for a lot of new classes. I would rather they put out more powers that let you customize one of the core classes to become what others have suggested need a full class. The exception would be the hybrid-type classes that don't work well as multiclass.
I don't really think there is need for a lot of new classes. I would rather they put out more powers that let you customize one of the core classes to become what others have suggested need a full class. The exception would be the hybrid-type classes that don't work well as multiclass.

A few classes would be welcome - I wouldn't mind getting some 3.5 classes and races PHB dropped off. But like you VerysArkon, I really would appreciate more powers, feats (including racial and divine), class options, rituals, paragon paths, and epic destinies for current selection of classes. I think many hybrid class options work already quite well as multiclass, or just additional class options.

I don't have 3.5 PHB2 but just read it's review - it had 4 new classes and bunch of options for old classes. I hope 4E PHB2 follows similar path! Btw, do we have any hints about it's content yet - or actual confirmation it will actually come?

With 3.5, nothing outside core books was necessary - this time it feels to be differently. I can accept if I have to buy PHB2 and MM2, but after that I expect to have enough variety for the game. If WotC won't give us that, I'll be disappointed.
Shaper & Maker galleries
lets see
Illusionist
Bard
Barbarian
Druid (shapechanger)
Shaman
Sorcerer
Necromancer
Psion
Psychic Warrior(defender)
Soulknife(striker)
Monk
Swashbuckler (or any class that is made to be both fast and smart)

and I would like to see a priest class, a cleric with out the marital ability
and something new that makes me go WOW!
All of those Power sources are listed in the 4e PH (somebody check me on this) So, Druid is the shape-shifter and Shaman is the other side of Druid? Where'd you find that out or is it just a conjecture?

someone, somewhere, said that they heard the druid will be focusing on the shape shifting aspect of the class, and that something else will take up the old classes focus on spellcasting. Since in 3.x, the Spirit Shaman was pretty much a non-shape shifting druid, I'm guessing that something similar will be the "casty druid"

this is obviously true as I heard it on the internets.
If they're going to continue Eberron as a supported setting then they need an artificer class as well. Possibly a variant arcane controller, but could also possibly be an arcane striker.
Illusionist definitely.

I really hope they give it some of the feel the old 1e illusionist had.

Besides the obvious illusion spells, give it the fog/mist/cloud & prismatic/chromatic spice it used to have. It could be an awesome master of the new "radiant" energy type in exchange for giving up the evoker type wizard blast spells.

In addition to all current illusion spells that wizards use, illusionists should receive them at a lower level, and/or receive higher powered versions of the same spell. Ala Superior Invisibility, Phantom Steed as a Utility instead of a ritual etc.

At wills: Chromatic Orb, Dark Bolt, Disguise Self(utility) etc.

Encounter: Color Spray, Paralyzation (ala 1ed), Blindness (ala 1ed), Shadow Magic & Demi Shadow Magic, All the low end Prismatics, Lucent lance, Shadow Assailants, Shadow Grappler etc revised Silent Image, Phantasmal Force, Spectral Force type spells.

Daily: All the high end Prismatics, Phantasmal Killer, Weird, upgraded Legion of Sentinels etc.

Utilities: Blur, Mirror image, Invisibility, Project Image, Phantom Steed, Wraithform, Ghost Armor etc.

Rituals: Dream, Vision, Programmed Illusion, Permanent Illusion, Alter Reality, Shadow Summoning spells, etc.


Just some of the things I'd like to see :D
I don't really see a need for a sorcerer in 4th edition to be honest. Not really sure what you would do to make it stand out.

My vote is for:

Shadow:
Bard-Leader
Illusionist-Controller
Necromancer-Striker

Primal:
Druid-not sure, could justify any of them, depending on which MMORPG they model it after.
Barbarian- Striker

Psionic:
Psion-could go leader or controller, most likely which ever of the two the druid is not, unless the druid manages to be defender, then it is anyones game
Psychic Warrior- Defender
Soul Knife- Striker
I hope they have some interesting martial type characters, atleast one of which is keyed to int and cha. Swashbuckler/duelist/samurai etc. My favourite character concept is a smart fighter-type who is not magical, barbaric or nature-oriented, just a skilled, tricky badass. Warlords meet this criteria, but they are leaders, I want a defender type class that uses int and cha, and does damage comparable to fighters/rangers/pallys.
I would love the following classes as soon as possible;

Knight/Cavalier (mounted warrior)

Druid

Barbarian

Bard

Assassin
monks

druids

psions

bards

swashbuckler/fencer/dervish (some dex based fighter that would be a great class for drizzt. ranger is fine, but their melee attacks are STR based, which doesn't work. this could also just amount to more/new powers for either the fighter or the ranger.)

pugilist?

beguiler (if bard doesn't already fill this role)

samurai

ninja

now that i'm thinking of it, you guys should just re-release the Oriental Adventures book and put all the Asian-flavor classes in there--monk included.
The omission of the bard is nigh-inexcusable. I hadn't taken that verbage in Races And Classes about bards still being under development to mean that they wouldn't make the PHB. Jeez.

I feel your pain. My favourite 2nd Edition/3rd Edition character I've ever played was an Ice Barbarian Skald (using the kit from "The Complete Bard's Handbook") from Dragonlance. I too miss the Bard.
In the meantime, however, I think a Warlord with the Inspiring Presence feature and the right choice of Powers can properly simulate a Skald until we have a true Bard class.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well. Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead. - [i]Hávamál[/i] D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. )
All classes in PH1 with some of the actual 4th ed promises, a lot of options, and a whole new rules system.
If they're going to continue Eberron as a supported setting then they need an artificer class as well. Possibly a variant arcane controller, but could also possibly be an arcane striker.

Keith Baker's blog mentions a full write-up for the Artificer in the July Dragon.
What I would like to see? hmmmm....

Bruce Cordell on Psionics and "whoever" did the work on 3E Faerun's Shadovar working on the Shadow power source. A Primordial influence on the elemental power source would be nice too, drawing on the Elemental Chaos and the Primordials as a cleric draws on faith and the gods or a warlock draws on ambient magic and his pact.
How about a class that can go back in time and save the DnD design philosophy from the clutches of the black-hearted 4e development team?

I'm disgusted with this—character classing on rails. The elimination of prestige classes is but one of the many design desions—too many to list here—that takes choice away from the gamer.

I play in the RPGA, and from the makeup of that group, Living Forgotten Realms is going to be much more sparesly populated; I fully expect that most of the old hands will be gone, and tabletop gaming the worse for it.

Seriously, Wizards should have a focus group with all the people angry about 4e just so they can understand HOW it is that they are ******* us off. As things are going now, I'm going to sit through 4e RPGA modules thinking "THis would be so much more fun with my mindbender." Or my Blade Bravo. Or my Master Thrower. Or those levels of Drunken master I JUST got access to when they pulled the plug on Living Greyhawk.

Wow I'm madder than I thouht. I think Im going to go punch my 4e PHB.
Do people really want a huge proliferation of classes that had little difference in role from each other?

Doesn't class proliferation create balance problems, unecessary book-keeping and memorising, and increase the need and misuse of optimization?

A lot of classes seem to be catered for under the 4e PHB classes with some minor flavour tweaking - couldn't a fighter simulate a barbarian, or a paladin a mounted warrior or a wizard a sorceror?

I think that very few new classes are required in PHB2+. I would rather see more ways of altering existing classes in order to get options - more powers etc.

So, with that in mind the only classes I'd really like to see are:

Druid
Bard
Monk
Some psionic class
Playing Scales of War

Rogue.jpg

How about a class that can go back in time and save the DnD design philosophy from the clutches of the black-hearted 4e development team?

I'm disgusted with this—character classing on rails. The elimination of prestige classes is but one of the many design desions—too many to list here—that takes choice away from the gamer.

I play in the RPGA, and from the makeup of that group, Living Forgotten Realms is going to be much more sparesly populated; I fully expect that most of the old hands will be gone, and tabletop gaming the worse for it.

Seriously, Wizards should have a focus group with all the people angry about 4e just so they can understand HOW it is that they are ******* us off. As things are going now, I'm going to sit through 4e RPGA modules thinking "THis would be so much more fun with my mindbender." Or my Blade Bravo. Or my Master Thrower. Or those levels of Drunken master I JUST got access to when they pulled the plug on Living Greyhawk.

Wow I'm madder than I thouht. I think Im going to go punch my 4e PHB.

FAILURE.