4E D&D Online?

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I know a lot of folks are all up in arms about 4E and how it seems like a MMORG and all, and I won't pretend I don't seem a lot of similarities.

I happen to enjoy MMORGS, even as old as I am, and I love tabletop. In fact, I prefer tabletop, but since I can't always get a session going, MMORGs are a nice filler.

It's already been pointed out, I'm not arguing the point. My question is, when can we expect to see the online version of this. I have a hard time not seeing it happen, especially since eveything I see (so far) looks like it can go straight from book to byte.

Predictions?

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

All the online D&Di discussion is over here, including release dates, etc:

http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=878
All the online D&Di discussion is over here, including release dates, etc:

http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=878

I'm not refering to DDI, but DDO.

http://www.ddo.com/

and the next version...

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

Honestly, I have a really hard time seeing 4th ed translate well as a true MMORPG. A lot of powers revolve around movement, and I think this is best handled in a turn-based game. DDO, and every MMO I've seen, is real time.

Just my 2 cents.
I'd love a turned based game, granted not enough to buy a PSP if that's the only platform they make it for again, but a true 4E game would rock.

I personally was not into DDO myself, although I gave it a shot, and honesly not looking for a 4E version personally, but the current rules just seem....

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

Personally I rather not have a 4e MMO... I much rather have a cRPG along the lines of Neverwinter nights... which would likely be more "Turn based freindly."
I can definitely see a NWN version of 4.0 as even still to this day the original NWN is played by many both on and offline.

The problem with DDO is it's going against other established MMO's out there (such as WoW)...a rather difficult task if you ask me.

I don't expect to see a 4th ed NWN (or anything) until very late 2009, but mid to late 2010 seems more likely.
If Bioware doesn't have anything to do with NWN3, as they were only advisers in NWN2, then expect the quality of the game to head southward. Bioware needs to take it back over and put it on a PC system that DOES NOT require Vista or put it exclusive on the lackluster Xbox 360.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Well... theres those wonderful tool links but wheres the download link for them?
it all feels very guildwars to me, a few skills i can hit over and over again, moving about to dodge aoe effects..
I would love a D&D MMORPG. It's a shame one hasn't been made yet.
I would love a D&D MMORPG. It's a shame one hasn't been made yet.

Heh. This says a lot about D&D Online. ;) But yeah, I'd prefer a turnbased CRPG. I liked NWN2, but turnbased would sure be nice.
well, while we are on the subject, has anyone played the D&D Tactics on the PSP?

And, there is a D&D Online. It sucks. No, I do not talk about the DDi, it was released before the announcement of the new edition.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
And, there is a D&D Online. It sucks. No, I do not talk about the DDi, it was released before the announcement of the new edition.

I've played the game called "Dungeons & Dragons Online." I stand by my original statement.
If Bioware doesn't have anything to do with NWN3, as they were only advisers in NWN2, then expect the quality of the game to head southward. Bioware needs to take it back over and put it on a PC system that DOES NOT require Vista or put it exclusive on the lackluster Xbox 360.

you do know that Obsidian Entertainment the people that made NWN2 is mostly made of people that formerly work at black isle the company that did the Baldur's Gate series. It's not like Bioware handed it to people that hadn't proved themselves
If Bioware doesn't have anything to do with NWN3, as they were only advisers in NWN2, then expect the quality of the game to head southward. Bioware needs to take it back over and put it on a PC system that DOES NOT require Vista or put it exclusive on the lackluster Xbox 360.

Wait.. you're saying that you expect the quality of the NWN series to go downward? How much farther down can it go? I'd take an MMO over another NWN game. Ever.

Personally, if Bioware can only advise others to put out tripe such as NWN, then I say good riddance to them.
Baldur's Gate 3 or Planescape Torment 2.

Make it so.
Baldur's Gate 3 or Planescape Torment 2.

Make it so.

The Planescape: Torment 2 I could get behind.. only if there was a vow that it would be at least as good as the first one. If they can't get close, I don't want them to bother.

As for Baldur's Gate 3.. well.. it would probably depend if Baldur's Gate still exists in the realms after the spell plague.
Honestly what I'd like to see is a turn-based Final Fantasy Tactics style game for 4th edition. Something where you make a party of characters and move them around between encounters gaining experience and such. Heck, even better would be a combination of a Tactics type game with a Diablo mechanic to make the encounters somewhat randomized.

If someone could do a 4th edition D&D video game like that for the DS, I'd almost certainly pick it up as something to play on my lunch hour or on trips.
well, while we are on the subject, has anyone played the D&D Tactics on the PSP?

And, there is a D&D Online. It sucks. No, I do not talk about the DDi, it was released before the announcement of the new edition.

Played it, it's okay, but a little frustrating at points (my wizard can't cast a fireball over a ledge, apperently).I'd recommend FF Tactics or the Wild Arms tactics-based game over it, to be honest.
There is a 4E D&D MMO.

It's called World of Warcraft.

Seriously, I like them both, but I'm flabbergasted by the similarities at this point.
For instance, to enchant an item you need residuum, a powdery substance obtained most commonly from disenchanting a magic item. In WoW, it's called Strange Dust or Magic Essence. The eladrin are blood elf clones, minus the magic addiction. And has any noticed what happened to the paladin? He's got bubble now. Sweet!
There is a 4E D&D MMO.

It's called World of Warcraft.

You do realize, of course, that you are by far and large NOT the first person to make that analogy...

Within the last five seconds...

Seriously. If you're going to slam 4e, can you at least be ORIGINAL with your complaints? Please?
There is a 4E D&D MMO.

It's called World of Warcraft.

Seriously, I like them both, but I'm flabbergasted by the similarities at this point.
For instance, to enchant an item you need residuum, a powdery substance obtained most commonly from disenchanting a magic item. In WoW, it's called Strange Dust or Magic Essence. The eladrin are blood elf clones, minus the magic addiction. And has any noticed what happened to the paladin? He's got bubble now. Sweet!

In WoW, it's one of the following:

Strange Dust
Soul Dust
Vision Dust
Dream Dust
Arcane Dust
Illusion Dust
Lesser Magic Essence
Greater Magic Essence
Lesser Astral Essence
Greater Astral Essence
Lesser Mystic Essence
Greater Mystic Essence
Lesser Nether Essence
Greater Nether Essence
Lesser Eternal Essence
Greater Eternal Essence
Lesser Planar Essence
Greater Planar Essence
Small Glimmering Shard
Large Glimmering Shard
Small Glowing Shard
Large Glowing Shard
Small Radiant Shard
Large Radiant Shard
Small Brilliant Shard
Large Brilliant Shard
Large Brilliant Shard
Small Prismatic Shard
Large Prismatic Shard
Small Glimmering Shard
Large Glimmering Shard
Small Glowing Shard
Large Glowing Shard
Small Radiant Shard
Large Radiant Shard
Small Brilliant Shard
Large Brilliant Shard
Small Prismatic Shard
Large Prismatic Shard
Nexus Crystal
Void Crystal

D&D has only one thing from disenchanting!

There are some other tiny but telltale differences.

Like, oh, for example it takes less than 5 minutes to level from level 1 to level 2 in WoW. You can go from level 1 to level 10 in less than an hour in WoW.

You can have a fight between 5 people and 20 mobs in less than 10 minutes in WoW, whereas in D&D such a fight would take over an hour.

You know, little differences.
You do realize, of course, that you are by far and large NOT the first person to make that analogy...

Within the last five seconds...

Seriously. If you're going to slam 4e, can you at least be ORIGINAL with your complaints? Please?

Yes, I do. Only saying because it's true and it's not really a slam against the game.
Yes, I do. Only saying because it's true and it's not really a slam against the game.

A slam against which game? WoW, or D&D 4th?
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
If Bioware doesn't have anything to do with NWN3, as they were only advisers in NWN2, then expect the quality of the game to head southward. Bioware needs to take it back over and put it on a PC system that DOES NOT require Vista or put it exclusive on the lackluster Xbox 360.

Well, given that any such grand title would require anywhere between three and five years of production I might dare say that if it did not require Vista/Windows 7 then it would be bollocks. The industry as awhole needs to move forward as new technologies come around, and yes that includes moving to a pure DX10 platform.

Nvidia and ATI/AMD+Intel are pushing for Physics next, how cool would that be in a D&D CRPG game? I would have no objection to spending a couple of grand on a machine that could deliver that sort of experience at that time.
Well, given that any such grand title would require anywhere between three and five years of production I might dare say that if it did not require Vista/Windows 7 then it would be bollocks. The industry as awhole needs to move forward as new technologies come around, and yes that includes moving to a pure DX10 platform.

Nvidia and ATI/AMD+Intel are pushing for Physics next, how cool would that be in a D&D CRPG game? I would have no objection to spending a couple of grand on a machine that could deliver that sort of experience at that time.

If a game is exclusive to a bad OS, then the company producing that game is going to lose customers. I seen the new Shadowrun game in the half price bookstore for 20 bucks, a whole table full and brand new, never opened packages. Microsoft need to dump the DRM now, while they have the chance.

If NWN3 requires WINvista, then I will have to wait till a patch for XP is available to allow us to have Direct X 10. It will happen.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
A slam against which game? WoW, or D&D 4th?

Either game. I wasn't trying to say that 4th ed is bad because its taken some of its ideas from MMOs like WoW. There are enough people doing that and I'm not one of them. I'm merely saying that if you want a MMO that is based on D&D 4e, or plays like it, you can play WoW.
I'd actually really enjoy another Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance using 4e rules. I really liked that game and it was a shame we didn't see more of them. I think that'd be a great way to experience 4e.
If you want a great D&D based game. Find up The Temple of Elemental Evil. It bridges between real-time and turn based effortlessly and is D&D3.5 based.
It was put out by the guys who made Vampire: Bloodlines... another amazing game.
If you want a great D&D based game. Find up The Temple of Elemental Evil. It bridges between real-time and turn based effortlessly and is D&D3.5 based.

I think we're the only two guys on the planet that actually liked that game.
If a game is exclusive to a bad OS, then the company producing that game is going to lose customers. I seen the new Shadowrun game in the half price bookstore for 20 bucks, a whole table full and brand new, never opened packages.

That has less to do with the OS and more to do with the fact that it is a POS game. I mean, really. Shadowrun, as a FPS? What the *&^% were they thinking???
It would be cool a on-line videogame of Ravenloft, and other of Dark Sun. Birthright is perfect for on-line game of trade and politics simulation and massive batlles (like the real time strategy D&D: dragonshard).

Have you seen anything about my sims: kingdoms? Would you like a on-line D&D social life simulation videogame (like Sims saga)?

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

If 4E's going computer (more than alrady, with DDI and all :P),
then I suggest bringing back the system from the awesomest D&D CRPG of all: ToEE.
(yes, I chose my name because of that game)
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/toee/0c192c1cefb74a2a598eb6d51c35fdc7.jpg)
57117398 wrote:
You blew me apart. That's not necessarily fatal.
http://iris.alphachat.net/?uio=d4&channels=gleemax Chat for all you folks. Rude and Azuro, you two especially. Get on chat more.
Yes!!! Long live the Temple of Elemental Evil! :D

After such a disappointing game that was Neverwinter Nights 2, I truly hope we can get some other modules in a Temple of Elemental Evil style .

Fond memories of that game :D. I'm still trying to get the original adventure :D.
Are you threatening me master jedi? Dungeons & Dragons 4e Classic - The Dark Edition
Yes!!! Long live the Temple of Elemental Evil! :D

After such a disappointing game that was Neverwinter Nights 2, I truly hope we can get some other modules in a Temple of Elemental Evil style .

Fond memories of that game :D. I'm still trying to get the original adventure :D.

To be honest, I really enjoyed NWN2 for the first two thirds. Its tutorial was the most awesome I've played for many years. :D

The third act (starting
Show
when Shandra was killed
) sucked balls, however. A great game ruined by the ending.

And yes, ToEE was cool. Buggy, but cool. The story was close to nonexistant ( :P ), but the gameplay and especially combat was the one most closely resembling pnp DnD ever.
So can anyone say if there will be a 4th ed computer game? I don't care if it's MMO, single player or what. I just would love to see one. I'd most like to see a NWN 3 using 4th ed. (Hopefully they make the Toolset easy to use. I mean REALLY easy. It's too complicated. It was bad enough in NWN 1. Part 2 made if even worse.)

I wouldn't mind a single player 4th ed game either though. An MMO could be cool if they actually try at it. DDO is awfull. I beta tested it. I was saddened to see them pretty much ruin Eberron and D&D. I think 4th ed's system would lend itself to a computer game very well because it's already been said it's somewhat styled with some ideas from MMOs and video games already. Game Informer had a article on 4th ed and pretty much stated it is the way it is to draw in video gamers who have never played D&D or pencil and paper RPGs. I like this. Good thinking IMO.

BTW if there are any NWN 2 people out there let me know. I'm looking for some decent worlds to play on. (Perhaps with a Eberron mod or a Oriental adventures or just someone who can help me learn to script.:-p)
I would like for there to be a D&D Online, 4th Edition. It should use turn-based mechanics for combat, with standard movement outside of combat.
To be honest, I really enjoyed NWN2 for the first two thirds. Its tutorial was the most awesome I've played for many years.

You're right, I've played worse games than NWN2. However, it was much less than it could be. For example, they kept most of the music and sound effects from the first game. Not necessarily a good thing.

Although NWN graphics and textures were good, its animation is years behind most contemporary computer games. Come on, what's with that swing? Wielding every weapon as if it were a club :P.

All of that was forgivable if not for the MMO nature of NWN2 quests . Go there. Fetch this. Explore that. Most of those quests doesn't even pretend to be something else than a slaughterfest. It goes against one of the hallmarks of 4th edition design: create INTERESTING encounters. I didn't feel like NWN2 gave me exciting encounters or compelling quests. I felt like grinding through countless enemies just to follow the story, that was at least mildly entertaining. After a bug in the middle of the first or second act barred my progress trough the game, I gave up playing it just for the story's sake.

It pales in comparison to the first one. It could be much more innovative and create a much immersiver gameplay if Obsidian didn't opt for "update the textures, leave everything else like it was before". Never2 isn't much of a sequel, it is simply Neverwinter with uptaded graphics and a not so entertaining campaign.

Of course, that is my humble opinion, feel free to disagree! ^^
Are you threatening me master jedi? Dungeons & Dragons 4e Classic - The Dark Edition
slightly offtopic

You're right, I've played worse games than NWN2. However, it was much less than it could be. For example, they kept most of the music and sound effects from the first game. Not necessarily a good thing.

To be honest, I really didn't notice. But I agree, NWN2 could have been better by leagues.

Although NWN graphics and textures were good, its animation is years behind most contemporary computer games. Come on, what's with that swing? Wielding every weapon as if it were a club :P.

Wait, you can't do that? :P

All of that was forgivable if not for the MMO nature of NWN2 quests . Go there. Fetch this. Explore that. Most of those quests doesn't even pretend to be something else than a slaughterfest. It goes against one of the hallmarks of 4th edition design: create INTERESTING encounters. I didn't feel like NWN2 gave me exciting encounters or compelling quests. I felt like grinding through countless enemies just to follow the story, that was at least mildly entertaining.

Well, In my opinion the main show stopper was the series of quests you had to perform in order to
Show
get into the third district in Neverwinter
. That was rediculous. But other than that, I found the quests to be relatively interesting compared to other games. Of course, there were some stereotypical quests, but come on, which game doesn't have those? ;)

After a bug in the middle of the first or second act barred my progress trough the game, I gave up playing it just for the story's sake.

You're not actually referring to the bug in the
Show
Sea Ghost
quest, when the second wave of enemies doesn't spawn and prevents you from completing the quest which is necessary for the main plot?

If you are, I feel your pain. Had to replay 4h after loosing my last save game to this bug.

It pales in comparison to the first one.

Here I must disagree. NWN1 was bad. I mean, really bad. The quests were even more boring and predictable (act 1: you have a main area, 4 surrounding areas, and need to find 4 things; act 2: you have a main area, 3 surrounding areas, and need to find 3 things; act 3: you have a main area, 3 surrounding areas, and need to find 3 things) and the whole henchman thing made it look like some Nodwick comic (sure, the henchman teleports to the nearest temple to be resurrected ).

Also, the story was godawful (seriously, who the **** came up with this creator race BS? ), and the "incident" with
Show
Aribeth going Blackguard over the death of her lover
without you being to prevent it while standing like 4m away from her is something I've striken from my memory.

NWN1 is very bad DM railroading on steroids, much more than NWN2, and certainly too much to be any good.

Last but not least, the final fight in NWN1 was lousy. I had a paladin 6/sorcerer 1/dragon disciple 10 with Strength 34 and a Greater Swordman's Belt (or whatever those things were called that gave you DR 15/bludgeoning). I didn't even need a single heal potion because the mobs in the final room couldn't even seriously hurt me.

It could be much more innovative and create a much immersiver gameplay if Obsidian didn't opt for "update the textures, leave everything else like it was before". Never2 isn't much of a sequel, it is simply Neverwinter with uptaded graphics and a not so entertaining campaign.

Again, I must disagree. First, the tutorial is better by several orders of magnitude. Then, you actually have interesting companions, which is something NWN1 lacked completely. The introduction of Neeshka, the ramblings of Khelgar, the jealousy of Elanee whenever your avatar is getting "comfortable" with another female.

Also, the scene in which
Show
Crossroad Keep is under siege
is plain awesome! :D Not to forget the scene when
Show
you're put on trial for manslaughter
. This was done better and more intimidatingly than the same scene in NWN1, again by orders of magnitude. ;)

Of course, that is my humble opinion, feel free to disagree! ^^

I think I just did that. :P


But anyway, on topic: I'm rather curious when (not if) we are going to see a 4E computer game. NWN3, BG3, PT2, DDO2, I guess we've got enough candidates for a possible transition to 4E. Only time will tell which of these it is. ;)
I would like for there to be a D&D Online, 4th Edition. It should use turn-based mechanics for combat, with standard movement outside of combat.

While I agree that this would be preferrable for a [single-player] DnD experience, I think it is not really appropriate for an online game.

First, online games need a wide target audience to be an economical success. If you make the game turnbased, you're shooing away a large potential audience. Just look at the strategy genre: while turn-based games provide a deeper and richer experience in both tactics and strategy, they are all but extinct. With an online game you need to appeal to the masses, not to some hardcore fans (if you can do the latter, that's bonus points :P ).

Second, turn-based games run into serious problems in multiplayer. Again, take a look at the strategy genre. Turn-based games definitively take longer to play out than real-time games, because each player gets [unlimited] time to think about his moves and actions. Grinding everything to a full stop in an online game to give the fighter enough time to think about which opponent to mark or something like that won't get you any fans.

Imagine there's a combat at the gates of a city. In a real-time simulation all people not wanting to get involved can just run by. In a turn-based simulation, however, all people getting within a certain distance are automatically forced into turn mode, and have to wait and stop-go-stop-go their way to the city gates.

If you've ever played on a NWN server that did not restrict Time Stop, you know how annoying it is to be forced to sit and wait for a long time repeatedly because some caster is throwing around Time Stops in some cave you couldn't even see.

Third, while 4E does place a heavy importance on movement and position, it does basically away with the need to have a turn-based system due to things like spell-duration measured in rounds or things like multiple AoOs per round, loads of extra actions (due to feats, spells, or abilities), etc. While all systems running 3.5 in real-time were more or less a complete mess, 4E seems to work more smoothly with real-time. I think someone should give it a try.