So When Should We Expect Psionics?

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Heya Gang,
Anyone have any inkling when a psionics rules should hit? Maybe as a web enhancement/Dragon article? Kinda need them for the Eberron campaign that I've been running and want to bring to 4e
I am betting on the PHB II (so next year???).. i have heard it might also have the Barbarian, Druid, and sorcerer.. but of course, i don't know for sure....
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I am betting on the PHB II

Yep, to tie in with Eberron (2009).
It's been pretty firmly implied that Psionic will be one of the power sources in PHB2.

Primal (Druid, Barbarian, etc), Psionic (Psions, Mindblades, etc.), and probably only one more, I'm guessing Ki (Monk, Ninja, etc.)

I'll be interested to see how they do Psionics in 4e.
Brew'N Games: A Homebrewing Blog, Both Games and Beer. "The Sky is Falling Like a Sock of Cocaine in the Ministry of Information..." - Man Man, Black Mission Goggles
I would think it would be shadow, for the Illusionists that will be in along with the gnome.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
I'm hoping it's in PHB II, and I hope it comes a lot sooner than the middle of next year. I've looked through the new PHB, and it's cool and all that, but it doesn't really feel complete to me without the Druids, Bards, Barbarians, Sorcerers, and Monks.
You know ... I'd be happy with a Psionics handbook for 4e ;)
You know ... I'd be happy with a Psionics handbook for 4e ;)

No psionics handbook, just addition of psionics as a power source. Psionics doesn't need a handbook anymore as it won't be it's own thing that not uses the system all other classes use (with combat and utility powers and at-will, encounter and daily powers)

Compared to older editions, psionics will be an easy thing to implement. which i consider a good thing, because one rule set for all power sources is always better.
No psionics handbook, just addition of psionics as a power source. Psionics doesn't need a handbook anymore as it won't be it's own thing that not uses the system all other classes use (with combat and utility powers and at-will, encounter and daily powers)

I imagine we'll see the base psionics rules in the Player's Handbook II and then a supplement similar to Martial Power later on.
I imagine we'll see the base psionics rules in the Player's Handbook II and then a supplement similar to Martial Power later on.

You are correct.
I'll be interested to see how they do Psionics in 4e.

The same way other power sources will be done: You'll have a psionic defender (Psychic Warrior), a psionic striker (soulknife), a psionic controller and a psionic leader (psion and wilder, possibly vice versa).

As an example, a soulknife will do similar damage to a rogue, ranger, or warlock but with different side effects.
The same way other power sources will be done: You'll have a psionic defender (Psychic Warrior), a psionic striker (soulknife), a psionic controller and a psionic leader (psion and wilder, possibly vice versa).

I'm hoping for the Lurk as the psionic striker instead of the Soulknife. I'm hoping the Soulknife will be made into a feat or several feats. How cool would it be for your Rogue or Lurk to wield a mindblade with a few cool mindblade-like abilities? :D
The same way other power sources will be done: You'll have a psionic defender (Psychic Warrior), a psionic striker (soulknife), a psionic controller and a psionic leader (psion and wilder, possibly vice versa).

As an example, a soulknife will do similar damage to a rogue, ranger, or warlock but with different side effects.

That wasn't what I meant, though I agree completely.

What I meant was more on these lines.
A Lvl 20 3.X Wizard could have an unlimited number of spells in his spell book, and could prepare 40 spells a day (4 spells at each level from 0-9)
A Lvl 20 3.X Psion had 36 powers known, spread out over levels 1-9, and 343 Psi-Points to use them, allowing him to use anything from 343 uses of lvl 1 powers, to 20 uses of lvl 9 powers, to any combination of powers in between.


So, basically, I'm wondering if they'll somehow capture the flavor of that system, or if Psionics will just work exactly like Warlocks. You have these powers and you can use them x number of times. And that's it.
Brew'N Games: A Homebrewing Blog, Both Games and Beer. "The Sky is Falling Like a Sock of Cocaine in the Ministry of Information..." - Man Man, Black Mission Goggles
When Should We Expect Psionics?

Nooobody expects Psionics. it's chief weapon is surprise. surprise and fear.
I'm actually expecting the psychic warrior and the soulknife to be merged into one class. Whether that class is defender or striker, remains to be seen.
Nooobody expects the spanish inquisition. it's chief weapon is surprise. surprise and fear.

Fixed it:D
I expect we'll see psions treated the same as the rest of the classes, with daily, encounter, and at-will powers. I'm hoping for the psionic version of rituals, as well, maybe with a new controlling skill and feat.
The later the better...
The later the better...

Aw, now, don't be like that... You may not like 'em, but some of us do. And, if you're the DM, you can always allow or disallow specific power sources. For example, an EARLY Dragonlance campaign could easily disallow divine power sources... A deliberately low-magic campaign could disallow divine. I honestly can't come up with a reason to forbid martial, though.

Having a stated power source for classes gives the GM an extra tool, I like.
The later the better...

Then you probably shouldn't buy the PHBII. Or even look at the 2 page spread in the PHBI with the party fighting the white dragon. Who's that with the bald tatooed head waving a hunk of crystal? D'oh! :D
Hoping for:

Psion- controller
Psi Warrior w./Soulknife type options included- Defender
Wilder- Striker
Ardent- Leader

But I realize they might not all be there as they have said they do not intend on filling in all slots on the power/ role graph.

I'm REALLY hoping for a 4e wilder!
Hopefully, if they do indeed only have a couple Psionic classes in the PHII, the rest are included in the Eberron Campaign setting.
Aw, now, don't be like that... You may not like 'em, but some of us do. And, if you're the DM, you can always allow or disallow specific power sources. For example, an EARLY Dragonlance campaign could easily disallow divine power sources... A deliberately low-magic campaign could disallow divine. I honestly can't come up with a reason to forbid martial, though.

Having a stated power source for classes gives the GM an extra tool, I like.

actually, I suppose the "psychic" part in 4th is probably ok since you don't need a seperate rulebook with a different engine that 3.5 suffered from and currently "psychic" is just a damage type and doesn't require anything special to use it. It's just considered normal magic and falls under the same rules as other magic.

As of right now, I'm still in 3.5 and psionics are not allowed in the group that I play in.

Hopefully, WOTC does not release a special psionic book with different mechanics for 4th. The main selling point of 4th is in it's simplicity and I can't imagine WOTC making the same mistake twice as they did with 3.5 and turn the gaming system into an experimental dumping ground.
I'm pretty sure we'll see psionics in PHB 2 in some form or another. I think it's been all but officially confirmed. After all, if you turn to page 50/51 in the PHB, you can see a character that looks an awful lot like the 3.x Psion.
I'm pretty sure we'll see psionics in PHB 2 in some form or another. I think it's been all but officially confirmed. After all, if you turn to page 50/51 in the PHB, you can see a character that looks an awful lot like the 3.x Psion.

I hope so, cuz I want to get a feel for what a Kalashtar will be like in Eberron.

EK
I'm thinking we'll see the base Psion and Psychic Warrior (or whatever they'll be called) in PHB II. I bet we won't see Soul Knife until Eberron. Why Eberron? Every other picture of a Kalashtar seems to be a soulknife.:P
I think it is unlikely but possible due to the highly polarizing nature of Psionics (or Psi as it will be called in 4th), that Psi will get its own book, and not be a part of the PHB.

I'm fine either way, but i think it might be a consideration to appease the very vocal very ANTI Psi segment fo the D&D community.
I think it is unlikely but possible due to the highly polarizing nature of Psionics (or Psi as it will be called in 4th), that Psi will get its own book, and not be a part of the PHB.

I'm fine either way, but i think it might be a consideration to appease the very vocal very ANTI Psi segment fo the D&D community.

While I understand what you say in regards to psionics, I really don't think they'll do a separate book.

The two main issues I've encountered regarding psionics are:

1. They are too 'sci-fi' for fantasy.. Ironically, I've heard this said from someone who absolutely loved Illithid (mind flayers). Go figure.
2. They are unbalanced, while certainly true in some past edtions (2e, I'm looking at you) in 3.x they seemed quite balanced. In fact, I found the psionic system would have made a better magic system.

So, while the first point is a matter of taste and preference, some people will like it others don't. That can't be changed. I'm sure there may be someone that doesn't like the martial or divine power sources for example. Currently there is psychic damage in the game, all the classes operate under the same mechanic and scheme (wizards very slightly different, as they get more powers technically). So, the second issue, is a moot point, as psionics will not, unless for some fool reason WotC decides to change it, not operate under a different framework. So they will be as balanced, in terms of the system as any other class.

So, really, as I said earlier the only issue is the flavour of psionics that most will either like or hate. Considering how fluff open the new books are, it could easily be changed by a DM so it isn't psychic, only mind affecting magic. Easily enough to get around. Some will still whine about psionics, but someone would whine if they didn't come out. Either way, someone comes on the forum and whines.

Now, other reason why I think that psionics will be done in the PHB2, is, as others have said, Eberron. Psionics is as somewhat integral part to the setting, now that psionics (my belief) will be the same as any other class, it might as well be put in for the Eberron books coming out in the same year. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the PHB2 had a decisive Eberron feel. Because Gnomes are needed, and must be expanded upon. Shifters, are the same way, Goblins (all three types) have an important role, half-orcs ditto, and Kalashtar need to be added. Warforged got an article, but I'm going to guess that will either be reprinted in the Eberron setting, along with the Artificer class. Possibly Kalashtar will be in that book, though putting them in the PHB2 gives a reasonably well thought out psionic race to tie into the powers, and without the fluff, they can work in any setting, along with their enemies, the quori - which will possibly be in MM2 also in 2009. Really, take much of the fluff out of Eberron, which you shouldn't as a rule, and the monsters work fine every setting.

So, I'm willing to bet my 3.x book collection on the fact that psionics will be PHB2.
I'm wondering if the Psionic power source will be confused with the Psychic keyword of the wizard and warlock...
I'm wondering if the Psionic power source will be confused with the Psychic keyword of the wizard and warlock...

Psychic damage, which some spells/powers deal, should not be exclusive to the Psi power source, though most of the time it will be a Psi powered class that would deal it normally.

The PHB lists all the damage types, not just the ones that happen to be used by the classes/races within.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
I'm wondering if the Psionic power source will be confused with the Psychic keyword of the wizard and warlock...

I don't think it will be a big issue. I expect the psionic power source classes to have the majority of their powers doing psychic damage. Much in the same way that most of the clerics powers do radiant damage.
The sooner we get Psionics, the quicker I'm forking over some dollahz!

Well that and a book that shows some detailed crafting options. I'm not really liking the lact of crafting in 4E.

In short - Geif m0r b00gz nuw!
some have hypothisized on which classes are going to be in...

using the letters we know are the first one of the class, we can guess the following.


B
B
D
I
S - Soulknife
S
T - Telepath
W - Wilder (though a Witch for shadow is more likely)
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)