Gleemax.com, Wizard's Announcement

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OMG that site sucks so comprehensively. As a web designer/engineer for a major government agency I would have been shot had I churned out something that is such a usability nightmare.

I can see that if that is the way they are going to launch the DI then I don't have much faith in what the next versions will be. The architecture of the site is crap, there is no meaningful information on anything - in short, it sucks.

my money is safe if that is the way it's going.
What if that personal page had a tool that allowed you to put in all the info from your current and retired D&D characters?

Why? I already have my character sheets.
It could also have information about you, your location, age if you choose, what campaigns you're currently running, etc.

Doesn't this forum already provide all of that?
If it is my personal page, how will anyone else see that information anyways?

You could personally select which information you wanted to see. Maybe you'd want to see D&D and D20 Modern content. Maybe you're only interested in seeing articles relating to Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. When it's launched, Gleemax will allow you to choose what information you want to have on the personal home page that you see when you log on.

I already personally select which information I want to see. I see the D&D main page just fine. I see Green Ronin and Mongoose and Malhavoc's webpages just fine, also. That's the information that I want to see. I wont be able to add new release information or news from 3rd party providers, so again, why?
Why two entirely separate webpages that provide the same content?
Maybe you'll find some blogs you're interested in reading.

Unless it is one from WotC employees or game book designers or freelancers... No.
Maybe one of them is the blog from your DM who posts a weekly round up for what's happened in your campaign. Perhaps he posts that just for your group to see, or maybe he makes it public and lots of other people can come along and read about the adventures of your gaming group. Maybe you'll find some other blogs about campaigns that you'll become interested enough in to want to read.

My DM doesn't use the internet. Has access at home (roommates have it), but never uses it. When I say never, I mean never. Wont happen.
Why read about others' campaigns?

As far as cost goes, we expect that most people who use the site will never pay us anything. And that's fine. But there will be some premium content that will be available for those who choose to become premium members.

[facetious=on]Ooo! I get to pay for "Gleemax" quality?![/facetious]

Again, in summary, why?
Again, in summary, why?

So, I answered your question and gave you information. I didn't get a sense that you actually considered the questions and what ways things might be of interest to you. I got the sense that you were just waiting to see ways you could knock it down and say "No! No! No!" So I am guessing that I could tell you it would mint you gold coins and your response would be, "Gold coins? Who uses gold coins today? Will my local grocer take them?! No, course not. It's stupid and useless. So again, why? Why?!" :P

But maybe I am wrong. Feel free to explain how you're honestly evaluating the possible pluses and minus of this if you'd like.
As far as cost goes, we expect that most people who use the site will never pay us anything. And that's fine. But there will be some premium content that will be available for those who choose to become premium members.

Free you say?

Things are starting to get better .
What if that personal page had a tool that allowed you to put in all the info from your current and retired D&D characters? It could also have information about you, your location, age if you choose, what campaigns you're currently running, etc.

You could personally select which information you wanted to see. Maybe you'd want to see D&D and D20 Modern content. Maybe you're only intersted in seeing articles relating to Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. When it's launched, Gleemax will allow you to choose what information you want to have on the personal home page that you see when you log on.



Maybe you'll find some blogs you're interested in reading. Maybe one of them is the blog from your DM who posts a weekly round up for what's happened in your campaign. Perhaps he posts that just for your group to see, or maybe he makes it public and lots of other people can come along and read about the adventures of your gaming group. Maybe you'll find some other blogs about campaigns that you'll become interested enough in to want to read.

As far as cost goes, we expect that most people who use the site will never pay us anything. And that's fine. But there will be some premium content that will be available for those who choose to become premium members.

I have to concur: why? I really can't see anything that that would give me that would be different from what I get off the forums as they stand.

Now, I'm all for waiting to see what the DI actually turns up like, and I'm not bitter about Dungeon or Dragon (maybe Complete Champion, but that's neither here nor there!), but I have to say that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me. (Nor is that a critisism of you personally, I hasten to add!)

I am not, it has to be said, the type of person who is at all interested in non-constructive add-ons. I don't have a mobile, but if I did, it would do one of two things; recieve and send out phone calls. Anything else (including texting) is a wasteful extra. What you have said sounds an awful lot like mobile phone gimics; nothing of particular useful interest. I can't see blogs all being Lady Despina's Virtue (or probably even any)...

So what advantage would this forum offer me, the miserable old bugger who would rather dip his bones in liquid anti-caesium than go to a Myspace page?
To put my own spin on Vargasan's post.

What if that personal page had a tool that allowed you to put in all the info from your current and retired D&D characters? It could also have information about you, your location, age if you choose, what campaigns you're currently running, etc.

I for one would rather as little personal information be on the internet as possible, so no.

And, like Vargasan, I have a nifty little thing called a character sheet to store all my characters and their information on. I don't need to put it up on a site that I can't access when my internet service is down (which happens frequently enough to matter where I live).

And it's no business of anyone save me and my players as to what the current campaign is.

You could personally select which information you wanted to see. Maybe you'd want to see D&D and D20 Modern content. Maybe you're only intersted in seeing articles relating to Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. When it's launched, Gleemax will allow you to choose what information you want to have on the personal home page that you see when you log on.

Like Vargasan, I check out only what I want to check out.

Everytime the D&D homepage shows Eberron, or DDM articles, I *gasp* skip over them!*gasp*. Sure, I wouldn't mind not even seeing the articles (and really, DDM has it's own section, quit trying to hog the main D&D page!), but hey, there are a lot of things I deal with each day that I'd rather not, and I'm not suffering that badly over that.

Maybe you'll find some blogs you're interested in reading. Maybe one of them is the blog from your DM who posts a weekly round up for what's happened in your campaign. Perhaps he posts that just for your group to see, or maybe he makes it public and lots of other people can come along and read about the adventures of your gaming group. Maybe you'll find some other blogs about campaigns that you'll become interested enough in to want to read.

I'm a member of another site which introduced a blog feature earlier this year, and I have never posted to it, or bothered to look at it beyond the initial "curiosity" look.

Sure, there may be people out there that enjoy blogs, but I'm not one of them. And since I'm likely to be the DM for any group I game with, any of the players seeking to read up on my games in blog format will be sorely disappointed (though I suspect they'll live).

Right now, I'm about as interested in WotC's ill-named Gleemax as I am about the DI, that is, interested in additional information about it, but just about as likely to spontaneously grow wings and a dragons' tail as to partake of this digital-only offering.
The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.
The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.

Well, it is something "big" don´t you agree? Nobody knows exatly what this Gleemax is or will be. Even now I am confused on what in the blue heck is that site. People are trying to give their feedback. As much I want just to wait till the features are running to test then and give feedback, I have to agree. For now, all I see is more of the same.

Something I would sugest would be a way to play D&D(the table top game) in a forum format, with dice rollers and sheets. That would be a feature I now I would use it.
The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.

Or that we are only interested in how this latest revelation relates to the DI, and are engaged enough to express how unattractive the planned "features" are to us.

Although I'll be sure to notify you personally Mike, if I ever make use of any of the features of Gleemax out of more than passing curiosity.

But I wouldn't hold my breath on that if I were you.
Mike - you still really haven't explained, as far as I can tell, how Gleemax (it's god awful color scheme and all) will be different than the forums now.

I'm not a tech person. I don't have interest in blogs - I've never read one. I don't have interest in a podcast - up until yesterday, I didn't even know how to listen to one, and I still have no interest now that I know how.

I see no reason to maintain my character sheets on Gleemax when I already have my character sheets.

So, I'm not looking for gold coins; but I am looking for what makes Gleemax.com different than what I have now.

John Ling

Lead Pathfinder Developer for Frog God Games

The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.

Not necessarily; I only read this thread because I saw you posted in it and followed the links out of morbid curiousity. I do not have any expectations for the DI, since as a whole no large company or organisation so far this year I have had dealings with had displayed anything resembling coherent thought, competance or sanity (EA, Virgin Media, BT, the local council, the UK government to name a few off the top of my head). I have no hope - but no prejudice either - about the DI. Surprise me. You really can't disappoint me...

By this point, it's more like prodding a dead Elf with a stick or that sort of feeling you get when you're watching the universe fall apart and trying to work out the full depth of how totally you are screwed.

Not that I'm bitter toward reality or anything.



Edit: Plus, what Z said.
Something I'm worried about:
What about this message board and the regular D&D site? Is Gleemax going to replace these things?
Something I'm worried about:
What about this message board and the regular D&D site? Is Gleemax going to replace these things?

I hope not, because if we lose search again in the transition, I may actually cry. And you don't want to make a Lich cry do you1?



1Technically, that sentence should probably be more of a statement. With agressive undertones.
So, I answered your question and gave you information.

So there is no answer to my question? No answer to "Why"?
Why was this huge amount of money put into something completely unnecessary?

I didn't get a sense that you actually considered the questions and what ways things might be of interest to you. I got the sense that you were just waiting to see ways you could knock it down and say "No! No! No!"

I didn't have to wait to see ways to knock it down. They came right to me. You guys were the one that linked Gleemax on the main D&D page. You walked into me. :D

So I am guessing that I could tell you it would mint you gold coins and your response would be, "Gold coins? Who uses gold coins today? Will my local grocer take them?! No, course not. It's stupid and useless. So again, why? Why?!" :P

Hells yes! I'll take gold coins. Wait, are they online content only? Will they have DRM? ;)

But maybe I am wrong. Feel free to explain how you're honestly evaluating the possible pluses and minus of this if you'd like.

I can honestly say I'm trying to evaluate the possible pluses. I just haven't seen one yet. From what you told me, it is unnecessary. Think of all the Community Liasons and Editors that WotC could have hired, but instead sunk into a gimicky, completely unnessary website. Community Liasons and Editors are necessary.

There are a few minuses (less money for employess, less resources to focus on a few products, a terrible web design team), but not that many.
I'm upset that it's a waste of resources that doesn't provide anything that is really necessary to the D&D hobby. Beyond that, I'm indifferent. It's just a website of nothing. The wizards webpage already provides all the pluses that Gleemax does, the possible pluses are just gimicks that do nothing.

I don't have a mobile, but if I did, it would do one of two things; recieve and send out phone calls.

I just got a mobile phone recently. I specifically asked the sales rep which phone had the least features and went with that one. No MP3 player. No camera. I needed a phone.

That could be part of the reason I'm upset with DI killing the magazines. I want the magazines. I don't need a character generator, I don't need character storage, I don't need a blog, I don't need my life story on a corporate site, I don't need my DM typing out a "minutes of the game", I don't need ... etc. You get the picture. It's all unnecessary.

As my dad has always told me, more pieces is just more that can go wrong.
The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.

I believe you are seriously misunderstanding us.

The fact that we are reading this thread and are engaged enough to actually reply means that we are interested in making sure the Digital Initiative gives us what we want.

Since the only features I saw on gleemax were a forum and a poll, I chose to express my concern for those features. Speaking of which, did you check out that forum I asked you to? It really does have a nice layout, Jay Thorne did an excellent job on it.

As more features become available, I'll be more than happy to tell you how I think they could be made better (and I expect that you'll add my thoughts to everyone else's, using a tally point system, and then decide from there what changes will be best for the majority of people).

To answer your questions on a personal page with info about me and my characters: I choose to interpret "personal" as "a page with personal info" as opposed to "a page for me" like someone else did. As a person who has recently given up two gaming groups and moved from the most beautiful state in the American Union to an area where he doesn't know anyone at all, I would love that feature. It should also have a means of searching, at least by location. This way, I could find a new gaming group

Which brings me to another suggestion: Community pages, for groups of people to participate in. This could work very similarly to how LiveJournal works, which is also open source code. In lue of ARS, LJ would be a nice substitute. It's not as easily searchable, but at least it's more searchable than the forums WotC uses currently. And it's more user friendly, and has a better layout, etc etc. Honestly, pretty much any forum system you choose out there will have a better layout than the current system.

As far as having your character online... Meh. I don't see a use in it, but I don't see it hurting anything by being there. A character generation tool on the other hand, would be the bomb. Especially if it were updated with new rules info every time a book was released! I can understand WotC running some DRM stuff here, I mean, what's the point in publishing a book with all the feats/PrC's/spells in it if everyone can just login to a site for free and get all the info they need to use it? So I'm not advocating that this part be free (although, if it were, I certaintly wouldn't complain), but available would be great.

I see the most use of this coming not from players building characters, but actually from DMs creating NPCs on the fly. Seriosuly, who wants to spend 32423 hours creating an NPC that exists for, as someone else put it, 4 rounds of combat?

And we all know what happens when you decide that the NPC is going to be a noncombatant so you'll skip the stats gen ...

.... that's right, you don't even get to finish describing that the person accidently dropped something when the fighter screams "I trip him!" and the barbarian says "CLEAVE!" and the wizard is hollering "Fireball, fireball!!"

Anyways, I have digressed.

To summarize, we're not replying because we are interested in gleemax, we're replying because we're interested in shaping the Digital Initiative. It's a subtle but very important difference.

Dennis Stout
So, I'm not looking for gold coins; but I am looking for what makes Gleemax.com different than what I have now.

I'm totally calling dibs on your gold coins.

The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.

I don't understand this statement at all except by what Zherog said:
Mike - you still really haven't explained, as far as I can tell, how Gleemax (it's god awful color scheme and all) will be different than the forums now.

We'll have interest in Gleemax because we're already doing what Gleemax provides on this website? I'm not sure I understand at all.

The reason I'm posting here is more of a "What the?" I'm not so much interested in Gleemax as to understand what the whole point of it is, and why I had to lose my magazines for it.
So, I'm not looking for gold coins; but I am looking for what makes Gleemax.com different than what I have now.

As far as I can tell, they're adding features but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be ones that you personally will use. Is it bad for a company to add features to their website even if every customer doesn't use them, ofcourse not.

One of the things that I've seen popping up a lot on the Internet in the wake of MySpace and Facebook are targeted social communities. You can think of some of the features Mike has described as "MySpace for Gamers".

Personally, I'm excited about the features mentioned. If I can configure my homepage so I don't see D&D Miniatures content, like I'm stuck seeing on the D&D homepage now, I'm happy.

I currently post all of my characters on a private forum for all of my gaming group to see, now I can just use the online tool to put them up on my gamer profile. I also post a recap of each gaming session online because my players are notorious for forgetting details. Do I currently have a private forum for this? Sure. Does everyone? No.

Edit: But I agree, Gleemax? I think one of the original appeals of Facebook was that college kids could say to each other "Look me up on Facebook, my name is Limit". I can assure you, I don't want to ever say Gleemax out loud.
One of the things that I've seen popping up a lot on the Internet in the wake of MySpace and Facebook are targeted social communities. You can think of some of the features Mike has described as "MySpace for Gamers".

All I can say to this is, "Oh, God."

Personally, I'm excited about the features mentioned. If I can configure my homepage so I don't see D&D Miniatures content, like I'm stuck seeing on the D&D homepage now, I'm happy.

Was it really worth WotC spending on that money on the second website so you wouldn't have to see DDM news? You could have had a new editor for those D&D books instead. Now was it worth it?

I currently post all of my characters on a private forum for all of my gaming group to see, now I can just use the online tool to put them up on my gamer profile. I also post a recap of each gaming session online because my players are notorious for forgetting details. Do I currently have a private forum for this? Sure. Does everyone? No.

I'm sure that most that would use such a feature, are already using such a feature. Blogger and LiveJournal are free and already useable. You already use such a feature. Why use Gleemax when you're already doing what you need?
The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.

So, basically, you ran out of "good" things to say about Gleemax, and so it's turned into "Oh, I know you guys will like it. Just trust me on this one." Not the first time I heard that one.

Like other posters on this thread, I'm not interested in fancy gimmicks or a site that duplicates the function of this one (but with a worse default color scheme). If this Gleemax thing actually has anything we'd be interested in, tell us about it, and preferably in detail. Vague statements proclaiming it to be great and wonderful, but with no explanation and with assumptions like "I know you'll all like it" just make it look more and more worthless. The only reason I'm looking at this thread is because I'm curious of what grand scheme of WotC is gonna replace those great magazines that were Dungeon and Dragon. So far, my expectations that it'll be just some poorly thought out money-grubbing scheme by Wizards of the Coast seem to be holding true. If it's not, please prove me wrong.
The simple fact that you folks are reading this thread (and are engaged enough to actually reply) tells me that you'll find plenty of interest in Gleemax.

Heh. Nah, that's merely why people look at car crashes, in the now-hopeless possibility that a hard copy of Dragon and Dungeon magazine will fly out and hit them in the windshield. :D
Was it really worth WotC spending on that money on the second website so you wouldn't have to see DDM news? You could have had a new editor for those D&D books instead. Now was it worth it?

Since I don't buy D&D books but will likely subscribe to the Digital Initiative, very.
What if that personal page had a tool that allowed you to put in all the info from your current and retired D&D characters? It could also have information about you, your location, age if you choose, what campaigns you're currently running, etc.

Oh, you mean like a signature?

You could personally select which information you wanted to see. Maybe you'd want to see D&D and D20 Modern content. Maybe you're only intersted in seeing articles relating to Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. When it's launched, Gleemax will allow you to choose what information you want to have on the personal home page that you see when you log on.

Already do--I decide what I click and where I go.

Maybe you'll find some blogs you're interested in reading. Maybe one of them is the blog from your DM who posts a weekly round up for what's happened in your campaign. Perhaps he posts that just for your group to see, or maybe he makes it public and lots of other people can come along and read about the adventures of your gaming group. Maybe you'll find some other blogs about campaigns that you'll become interested enough in to want to read.

Google?

As far as cost goes, we expect that most people who use the site will never pay us anything. And that's fine. But there will be some premium content that will be available for those who choose to become premium members.

Online-only premium content? No thanks.
So, basically, you ran out of "good" things to say about Gleemax, and so it's turned into "Oh, I know you guys will like it. Just trust me on this one." Not the first time I heard that one.

Sorry, I should have elaborated more. It had reached the time where I had to leave work and hit the gym if I wasn't going to blow it off, yet again.

The fact that you guys are interested in reading message board content tells me that you'll be interested in what the Gleemax site has to offer. The people who have no interest in blogs from their favorite designers, messages or info from their favorite community members, any form of D&D related tools, or D&D news of any sort might not find it as appealing. But I don't think there are too many of those. Especially not here reading this thread.

The Gleemax name is just a name. Google and Wii were names that many people thought would never catch on and they have.
It sounds cool enough to me. I wouldn't have thought I would enjoy message boards so much before I started coming here, I imagine I'll find plenty to like in the new setup too.

But yeah, it would be a lot better if the entry screen had a more neutral theme, and you could "opt in" to the silly stuff rather than having to opt out. And the name is dumb too, but whatever.
Gleemax seems to be a WotC initiative riding on the coat-tails of rather successful social networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace.

I'm sure you've heard of them.

Lots of people meet others using those two resources, but what Gleemax will do is provide a user base that is supposedly guaranteed to have similar interests as you.

For myself its most obvious use would be to find new players in the area, but it's not limited to just that.

Based on what I read (I only skimmed it) there's no threat of it replacing the current forums. It's something else entirely. Basically a gamer's club where you don't need to play games, but have the opportunity to meet gamers.

I may or may not use it, but I can definitely see a use for it, but just like any community, it's up to those who belong to it to make it useful and positive.

As for why Wizards would make this?

1) It keeps people playing their games.

2) It may cause Magic players to try Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons players to try D20 Modern, and D20 Modern players to try Star Wars, and etc.

3) There are that would like to play the sorts of games we enjoy, but have difficulty due to their inability to find people in their area. This can potentionally help those and provide benefit to them, as well as bolster interest and sales for WotC.

4) With the local gaming stores seemingly slowly dying out thanks to online vendors it is becoming harder to meet new gamers face to face. This provides an alternative.

Of course, these are just guesses as to the motivations.

I have a question though: Will pages displaying or mentioning non-WotC games be censored, even if WotC games are being mentioned/used?

That's basically the deciding factor on its usefulness for me.
One of the things that I've seen popping up a lot on the Internet in the wake of MySpace and Facebook are targeted social communities. You can think of some of the features Mike has described as "MySpace for Gamers".

MySpace elicits a negative reaction from many gamers. Ever wonder why that is? It's probably a lot of reasons, but I know that for many it's because the people on sites like that are exactly the type of people many gamers hated in high school and college and possibly still detest. Gleemax is aiming to be the site where the other folks are gamers interested in the same thing you all are.

Personally, I'm excited about the features mentioned. If I can configure my homepage so I don't see D&D Miniatures content, like I'm stuck seeing on the D&D homepage now, I'm happy.

When the site is fully functional, this is the type of thing we're looking to provide. Allowing people to pick the type of information they see on their "home page" when they log into Gleemax.
To answer your questions on a personal page with info about me and my characters: I choose to interpret "personal" as "a page with personal info" as opposed to "a page for me" like someone else did. As a person who has recently given up two gaming groups and moved from the most beautiful state in the American Union to an area where he doesn't know anyone at all, I would love that feature. It should also have a means of searching, at least by location. This way, I could find a new gaming group

Right. I could have worded it better. You'll have a "home page" that you can arrange to display the information you're interested in seeing each time you log on. You can also set up a personal info page (if you want) that will provide as much information about yourself if you want.

One of the major goals of the site is to help players find Good DMs and DMs find Good players.

Which brings me to another suggestion: Community pages, for groups of people to participate in. This could work very similarly to how LiveJournal works, which is also open source code. In lue of ARS, LJ would be a nice substitute. It's not as easily searchable, but at least it's more searchable than the forums WotC uses currently. And it's more user friendly, and has a better layout, etc etc. Honestly, pretty much any forum system you choose out there will have a better layout than the current system.

I'm not sure exactly how this will work, but we definitely want to encourage user generated content as much as we can. One the biggest areas of value that I suspect will come of this is that any player who is interested in creating content will be able to set up a page and let others view and comment on it. Different people could also collaborate on things, either pubicly or privately.

I see the most use of this coming not from players building characters, but actually from DMs creating NPCs on the fly. Seriosuly, who wants to spend 32423 hours creating an NPC that exists for, as someone else put it, 4 rounds of combat?

Yeah, maybe it's a ME thing, but I think it would be pretty cool if I posted a character and some DMs decided to use it as an NPC. Well, in my case I'm sure they'd make it a villian...but you know what I mean.
I have a question though: Will pages displaying or mentioning non-WotC games be censored, even if WotC games are being mentioned/used?

That's basically the deciding factor on its usefulness for me.

Gleemax is a site for gamers. It doesn't matter if they play WotC games or the games of our strongest competitors, we want it to be THE place where people can go to find other like-minded folks who are knowledgeable about whatever game they are interested in learning about.

In a lot of ways, the site should be a real boon for smaller independent publishers, since it will allow people to talk about lots of different types of games in a single space.
Gleemax is a site for gamers. It doesn't matter if they play WotC games or the games of our strongest competitors, we want it to be THE place where people can go to find other like-minded folks who are knowledgeable about whatever game they are interested in learning about.

In a lot of ways, the site should be a real boon for smaller independent publishers, since it will allow people to talk about lots of different types of games in a single space.

I agree on it being a boon for smaller publishers. I'm curious to see if viral marketing will become prevalent.

I'll be taking a peek now and again. Hopefully you guys end up with a strong and positive community.
The fact that you guys are interested in reading message board content tells me that you'll be interested in what the Gleemax site has to offer. The people who have no interest in blogs from their favorite designers, messages or info from their favorite community members, any form of D&D related tools, or D&D news of any sort might not find it as appealing. But I don't think there are too many of those. Especially not here reading this thread.

Couldn't the Wizards of the Coast main D&D webpage provide all of that (and often does, I'm including the forums in that statement)? The D&D related tools have yet to prove useful (even eTools). Gleemax still seems unnecessary.

MySpace elicits a negative reaction from many gamers. Ever wonder why that is? It's probably a lot of reasons, but I know that for many it's because the people on sites like that are exactly the type of people many gamers hated in high school and college and possibly still detest. Gleemax is aiming to be the site where the other folks are gamers interested in the same thing you all are.

Actually, I don't know if it's the same for all those gamers, but it's not because it's "the type of people I hated in high school/college". I think it's the maturity level. The extremely low maturity level.
I was immature in high school, I'll admit it, but I'm 26 now. I've grown up. From what I've seen so far of Gleemax's forum, and most (video)gaming forums/websites, they're wrought full of that immaturity. The D&D forums are rarely (at least the parts I visit) immature. People express themselves in a mature, rational manner, rather than resorting to "Internet/Leet Speak" and "STFU/RTFM" acronyms.

By your logic, to show my dislike, and distaste, for Gleemax, I need to stop looking and posting in this thread. Well, no. I will look and post so that I can contribute and hopefully change Gleemax into something I'll actually like. I had to lose my magazines, something I really liked, for something that just feeds my distaste for the internet, a MySpace/Facebook wannabe.

I don't see Gleemax as a "MySpace that's raised to gamer levels", but as my beloved D&D being lowered to "MySpace" levels.
I was immature in high school, I'll admit it, but I'm 26 now. I've grown up. From what I've seen so far of Gleemax's forum, and most (video)gaming forums/websites, they're wrought full of that immaturity. The D&D forums are rarely (at least the parts I visit) immature. People express themselves in a mature, rational manner, rather than resorting to "Internet/Leet Speak" and "STFU/RTFM" acronyms.

Well said, but you forgot the include that Myspace is a breeding ground for the ill-informed.

I don't see Gleemax as a "MySpace that's raised to gamer levels", but as my beloved D&D being lowered to "MySpace" levels.

Very well said as well.

This whole DI thing, as well as the recent feeling of all of the D&D books of the past year, has been this dumbing-down of D&D to "MySpace" levels.

This is just the culmination of this dumbing down.
As far as cost goes, we expect that most people who use the site will never pay us anything. And that's fine. But there will be some premium content that will be available for those who choose to become premium members.

What's to prevent this premium content from being spread to those who don't pay?
Dumbing things down does not neccesarily come at the expense of fun/value.

I can accept that this may not be for you though.

Currently I don't even have a use for it, but I can see it being a helpful resource if I ever move.

You both are right about MySpace and FaceBook and all those other places being full of children, adolescents, vagrants and hoboes, but I can get along with those people as long as there's some form of commonality between them and myself. There's also the fact that such people do not make up the entirety of those sorts of communities.

The final truth of it is this relies entirely on the community that it attracts. For now I will hope for the best and maybe I will use it in the future.

Why anything?
Just plain Stupid and Down Right Ugly is all I can say
Oh dear.

Is it just me, or is WotC going through a mid-life crisis? Giving itself a 'hip', digital makeover, and trying to ditch their 'old' gamers for younger trade-up gamers.

I feel betrayed.
So, I answered your question and gave you information. I didn't get a sense that you actually considered the questions and what ways things might be of interest to you. I got the sense that you were just waiting to see ways you could knock it down and say "No! No! No!" So I am guessing that I could tell you it would mint you gold coins and your response would be, "Gold coins? Who uses gold coins today? Will my local grocer take them?! No, course not. It's stupid and useless. So again, why? Why?!" :P

But maybe I am wrong. Feel free to explain how you're honestly evaluating the possible pluses and minus of this if you'd like.

His arguement does get us thinking though.

-Is the Character sheet option a unique or interesting tool? What features does it have? Will it recalculate saves, BaB, skills, etc as I enter info or are we effectively spending time to write a second character sheet?

-Will OGL content be allowed/included?

-What safeguards will be provided to ensure that info I provide about myself is not stolen/hacked?

-How will the DI be funded if it is not a pay site? Will this effect the cost of your products?

-What services does the site provide that cannot be emulated or bypassed by search engines, current blogs, or sites such as Yahoo Groups?

These are just a few that come to my mind. I'm not out to tear you down, but I would like these and a few other questions answered.
This gleemax website really doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. On the one hand, it's trying to be a social networking site like facebook or myspace. It seems like gleemax will at least succeed at that. But both facebook and myspace (particularly facebook) emphasize intuitive, easy-to-use interfaces, along with a very modern graphical style. To use a really tired buzzword, they're very "Web 2.0." Gleemax certainly isn't- in fact, the clashing colour scheme and poor support for alternative browsers makes it look like something straight out of the '90s. The menu system is pretty poor too- I have no idea how to become one of these "minions," or why I should want to; it's not intuitively obvious what "Pixels" or "Minions Speak" will lead to; the sidebar menu content keeps changing from page to page and isn't very helpful; both the forums and the photo gallery are hosted off-site, which makes navigating back to the home page a pain.

The fact is that there's a reason why facebook and myspace look the way they do. With social networking sites, the website itself generally tries to be as unobtrusive as possible and let the users create the experience themselves (this is another aspect of that "Web 2.0" buzzword the marketing folks love). Youtube is another good example of this philosophy, although it's not a social networking site. Gleemax is the complete opposite. Sure, users will be able to customize some of these things once the site's off the ground, but you need to make people stay around long enough to do that too. Besides, the entire concept of "let's have a crappy interface and let the users customize it until they like it" is pretty out-of-date.

Finally, basing your entire website around a gimmicky in-joke that the Magic forums ran into the ground about a year ago is a terrible design decision. Seriously, most of that stuff belongs on a site like fatmouse.org, not a serious social networking site run by a large corporation.
This feels very much like the space you can have when you pay for premium content on the Everquest 2 website. Guilds can create their own website with the tools provided by sony. They have their forums, news sections, blogs, stats about guild members characters etc...etc.

Nevermind the look of the thing.. that is just superficial. And if it's just the gateway to my D&D section...i'll probably never see it....Much like the WotC website that i never see because my link goes directly to the D&D section.

As for those that say why or what's in it for me i would be tempted to say...maybe nothing...maybe nothing of what is being offered by the new DI and the new website...with all it's new features...has any interest for you...Maybe you'll stick with what you are accustomed to and nothing will change for you. Maybe you get absolutely nothing new from this if nothing that is being offered is interesting to you. You'll lose nothing (excetion being made for the magazine thing). You'll get your free forums, your free news about new products, some free adventures from time to time and web enhancment.
And those that pay...will get all that crapy new stuff they are taking about...those maping tools and character generation tools and articles about their campaign settings. You loose nothing and a bunch of people get what you don't like...

It's a god darn perfect world!

Pat
I'm just here for the train wreck :D :D
As for those that say why or what's in it for me i would be tempted to say...maybe nothing...maybe nothing of what is being offered by the new DI and the new website...with all it's new features...has any interest for you...Maybe you'll stick with what you are accustomed to and nothing will change for you. Maybe you get absolutely nothing new from this if nothing that is being offered is interesting to you. You'll lose nothing (excetion being made for the magazine thing). You'll get your free forums, your free news about new products, some free adventures from time to time and web enhancment.
And those that pay...will get all that crapy new stuff they are taking about...those maping tools and character generation tools and articles about their campaign settings. You loose nothing and a bunch of people get what you don't like...

It's a god darn perfect world!

Pat

Except, in exchange for something that is redundant to the main D&D webpage, I lost my magazines, which I loved. Also, by the looks of things, we'll lose these forums as well, because they'll just be redundant. Also, if you'll look in the Questions thread above, you'll see that there is apparently information about Gleemax in the podcast that they have on there. That's another "online downside". How do I know if there is information in that podcast that I'll actually use without listening to the whole thing? I hate morning radio because there's too much talk and no music. Is this what I should expect from the podcasts?

Also, the resources that were poured into the redundant* Gleemax, could have been more useful for everyone. Better editors for the books, errata for the already erroneous books, more Community Liasons so we don't have to share with MtGO and run Mike ragged. Those are all things that I "lose" because of Gleemax, including the magazines.

(* Yes, redundant. There's a forum here. There is news here. There is everything already here. Why build a whole new apartment building elsewhere, when you've already got most of the floors already completed here?)