Dungeonscape Errata/Comments

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Well, I've gotten Dungeonscape and am starting to read it. I'll be using this thread to provide errata and commentary for the book (while simultaneously finishing up the final four errata entries in the Complete Scoundrel thread).

pg. 13 - The text implies that Knowledge (dungeoneering) is a class skill for Rogues.

pg. 19 - Alerach -
The character's mwk light crossbow should indicate that it has a threat range of 19-20.
The character's Arcane Dilettante ability implies that he can only use one spell-like ability (mimicing a spell of 2nd level or lower) per day when it should note that he can use two different spell-like abilities per day, one of which can be of up to 2nd level. Furthermore, the entry for the currently known abilities implies that they are spells rather than spell-like abilities.
The character's Diplomacy modifier (+2) should be noted because of his half-elf racial bonus.
The character has no ranks in Sleight of Hand, which is a Trained Only skill, and should therefore have the skill removed from his skill list.
The character has no ranks in Tumble, which is a Trained Only skill, and should therefore have the skill removed from his skill list.
Since Knowledge skills can be used at default levels to make checks with a DC of 10 there should be an annotated listing for the Knowledge (nature) skill (+5 total modifier) because of the Survival synergy that it receives.
The character has 6 skill points too many. The writer provided the character with retroactive skill points for his 4th level ability score increase.

pg. 32 - The entry for the Adamantine Hacksaw does not indicate for how many rounds the item can be used.

pg. 34 - The Acid Neutralizer entry indicates that one dose is enough for 10 cubic feet and that two doses would be needed for 20 cubic feet. This is incorrect. 20 cubic feet would actually require 8 doses.

pg. 36 - The standard Lava Stone entry indicates that it costs 24 gp and requires 16 gp in materials to create. Since alchemical items require 1/3 of their cost in materials the 16 gp entry should be 8 gp.

pg. 36 - The greater Lava Stone entry doesn't provide the material cost (it should be 38 gp) and does not indicate if the craft DC is different than the standard Lava Stone craft DC.

pg. 40 - The Boots of Sidestepping entry indicates that creating them requires 2 days and 60 xp. They actually require 3 days and 120 xp.

pg. 41 - The Dancing Lantern entry indicates that creating them requires 1 day and 40 xp. It actually requires 2 days and 80 xp.

pg. 42 - The Grasping Hook entry indicates that creating it requires 4 xp. It actually requires 20 xp.
pg. 34 - The Acid Neutralizer entry indicates that one dose is enough for 10 cubic feet and that two doses would be needed for 20 cubic feet. This is incorrect. 20 cubic feet would actually require 8 doses.

20 cubic feet is twice the volume of 10 cubic feet, so unless the rules are pretty odd, I would think two doses should be correct.

Note that there is a significant difference between 10 cubic feet and a 10 foot cube (which contains 1000 cubic feet of volume.)
I believe the OP meant "10 foot cube". Thats the standard form for acid pools.
20 cubic feet is twice the volume of 10 cubic feet, so unless the rules are pretty odd, I would think two doses should be correct.

Note that there is a significant difference between 10 cubic feet and a 10 foot cube (which contains 1000 cubic feet of volume.)

My mistake. I did mix up cubic feet with a foot cube.
For the two new creatures listed and the associated knowledge checks it references knowledge nature as the skill needed. -one is plant one is vermin- then in the description table for results of the check it lists it being knowledge the planes.

Should be one or the other, i think nature.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Not much love for Dungeonscape, huh? I thought it was great.

Anyway, anyone hav eany thoughts on the Factotum's Inspiration ability? It seemed like the explanation of how it worked was a little... sparse, just 'you gain this many per encounter'. What about between, when you run out, etc? Seems like most of these unlimited use guys (Martial Adepts, Hellreaver) have some kind of recharge.
Well, this'll go on the Comments side of Errata/Comments:

I love the Sorcerer class substitution ability. I've never been a big fan of Familiars or Animal Companions or friends, anyway.... but that's a pretty cool ability. 5x the spell level sacrificed. That could be a huge lifesaver! Man... too bad I'm already lvl 10.
I thought the fighter substitution was pretty awsome as well.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Yeah, the substitution levels were great, seriously. I get a little sniffly thinking about the Paladin version. ;)
Now my party doesn't have to have a rogue to deal with traps. That really soups up party diversity.
Oh, i forgot about the palidins. That was a great substitution, for anyone who dosnt want a mount. It isnt even dungeon specific.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Hi, I've been hearing alot about these alternate class features, but I don't live anywhere near a gaming store to look through them. Could someone give me a quick run down? Specifically, I'm playing a fighter and people have said a lot about the alternate features for them in this book. If someone could give me the details so I know whether it's worth buying to bring into my gaming circle I would appreciate it greatly!
I personally think this is one of the best books WotC has made since tome of battle.

Substitution levels are soooo much better than base classes. It gives the writers a chance to make every base class fit the theme of the book and give the book a better cohesion throughout.
The fighter allows you to give up two bonus feats, level 2 and 6. and in exchange you deal a good ammount of damage on a successful bullrush when you push your opponent into walls, a bonus to breaking down doors/walls, and a bonus vs traps. Ill let someone else get specific cause i dont know the exact Terms of service.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

This is a great book. Especially the random dungeon themes. I often need just a little inspiration when I create an adventure and this is definetly inspiring. I also liked the Encounter Template section.
i LOVE dungeonscape. by far one of the best books WotC has made in a while.
Just thought you should know. the countdown continues...
I would recomend this book to anyone who wants to dm. Possibly even over the actualy DMG. which in reality ive only ever used for random npcs, treasure, items, and xp.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

There is so much that's good about Dungeonscape, I hardly know where to begin. Beyond the awesome class substitution levels, and the inspirational advice for DMs, I really liked the concept of encounter templates.

We all know that different characters play different complementary roles within the party, and that we should strive to craft encounters that play to the different strengths and weaknesses of each different character. We are pretty much left to our own devices when it comes to crafting such encounters, however.

The encounter template concept formalizes an approach to designing encounters that many of us have stumbled onto intuitively over the years. Such design processes usually begin with a problem statement like: "I need to create an encounter that will provide the rogue skirmisher with an opportunity to shine". This leads to questions like "how do I ensure that the party tank remains tied up in melee long enough for the rogue to penetrate the back ranks so that he can take out the enemy wizard who is wreaking havoc on the party with his spells", and "how do I keep the party blaster from stealing the rogue's thunder during such an encounter?". Once you have solved all of these problems the first time, you have the makings of an excellent encounter template that you can reuse throughout the campaign.

I'd love to see more encounter templates linked to different character archetypes which DMs can draw upon to help showcase the abilities of different characters. The books often talk about giving each character their time in the spotlight, but they are largely silent on how exactly you should go about doing this. The Dungeonscape encounter templates offer the first glimpses of a solution to these problems.
Time for a bit more errata.

pg. 51 & 52 - The NPC Reactions and Adaptation sections of the entry both list the Griffon as an example Beast Heart Adept monstrous companion yet Griffons do not appear on any of the class companion lists.

pg. 52 - Daktar -
The character's short sword attacks should note the weapon's critical threat range.
The character is built weaker than the elite ability array but stronger than the standard ability array. Increasing the character's Constitution to 16 is the easiest way to fix the problem; just give him 9 more hp and an additional +1 to Fort saves.
The character's Ranger bonus feats should be indicated as such.
The character's Weapon Focus feat should note that it applies to the short sword.
Since you can make DC 10 Knowledge checks without any ranks in the skill, the character's Knowledge (nature) skill modifier of +1 should be noted due to the Survival synergy.

pg. 53 - Bonecracker -
The Girallon's swim speed should be changed to a climb speed.

pg. 54 - The Trapsmith's spells are potentially unbalancing to the game. Assuming that the character has a caster level equal to his class level then a character who takes all of the levels in this prestige class has a caster level of 5. This qualifies him to take the Craft Wand feat. Many of the spells on the character's spell list are normally too high in level to make wands of and ALL of them are at a lower spell level than can be found for any other class (some of them are a full three levels lower than normal). This means that the character can make wands of a limited number of spells for a fraction of the cost paid by any other character and can make wands that no other character can make. To fix this problem I would get rid of the Spells Known table and give the character a number of 1/day spell-like abilities (chosen from the provided list) equal to the Spells per Day entry on Table 3-3. While this does potentially let the character use stoneskin 1/day without paying the material cost this is still significantly better than letting him crank out cheap wands of stoneskin.

pg. 55 - The Quick Fingers prestige class ability seems to stack with the quick fingers alternate Rogue class ability in such a way as to actually slow down the character's attempts to disarm wicked difficulty traps.

pg. 57 - Twitch -
The character's medium size should be changed to small.
The character's senses entry should include low-light vision.
The character is missing his two bonus languages.
The character is short 3 hp.
The character's trap sense bonus should be noted on both the AC and saving throw lines.
The character's AC line should note his AC bonus versus giants.
The character's saving throw entry should note his racial bonus to saves versus illusions.
The character's speed should be 20 ft.
The character's attack options entry should note his bonus to hit kobolds and goblinoids.
The character's gnomish spell-like ability to speak with burrowing animals should be noted.
The character has 1 feat too many.
The character's Craft (alchemy) modifier should be noted because of his racial bonus and the fact that, as a spellcaster, he can use the skill.
The character's Jump modifier of -4 should be noted because of his speed penalty and Tumble synergy bonus.
The character's Survival modifier should be noted because of his conditional Search synergy bonus.
The character is either 10 or 14 skill points short, depending on whether he raised his Intelligence score at 4th or 8th level (and assuming that he didn't take any of his skill ranks cross-class).
How is a Gnome with a strength of 10 carrying so much stuff without becoming encumbered?
Beast Heart Adept (or as I will demand my players call it "Monster Buddy") is fantastic. I really liked this book old fashioned lateral thing for dungeons and a good ammount of humour.

Thumbs up to the authors.
Um dude, you realize that point buy is not a necesity, and not all characters have average HP. being shorted 3 hp is not a mistake necesarily.
Um dude, you realize that point buy is not a necesity, and not all characters have average HP. being shorted 3 hp is not a mistake necesarily.

For the purpose of example NPC stat blocks WotC uses average hp, so being three short is an error. The only time they don't seem to use average hp is during an adventure when PC's run into several opponents of the same type (ie. 3 kobolds).

Also, the ability arrays are designed to assure that opponents properly fit their challenge ratings. If the opponent doesn't have an appropriate set of ability scores then they are not necessarily a challenge of the indicated difficulty.
Sorry for the delay. Here are a few more entries.

pg. 105 - Ascomoid -
The creature's low-light vision (normal for beings of the plant type) is not noted.
The creature's spore jet ranged attack should indicate that it is "+6 ranged touch" instead of "+6 touch".
The entries "plant immunities" and "plant traits" do not provide sufficient information to use this stat block without referring to other books.

pg. 106 - Rot Grub Swarm -
The entries "swarm traits" and "vermin traits" do not provide sufficient information to use this stat block without referring to other books.
The swarm should list a Move Silently skill modifier because of the +8 racial bonus to such checks (for a total modifier of +10).
Although the swarm's Hide modifier is technically correct I still find it odd that 1,500 rot grubs can hide just as easily as a single rot grub.
The creature's Infestation ability should note the atttribute upon which the reflex saving throw is based (possibly dexterity).
For the purpose of example NPC stat blocks WotC uses average hp, so being three short is an error. The only time they don't seem to use average hp is during an adventure when PC's run into several opponents of the same type (ie. 3 kobolds).

Also, the ability arrays are designed to assure that opponents properly fit their challenge ratings. If the opponent doesn't have an appropriate set of ability scores then they are not necessarily a challenge of the indicated difficulty.

he probably had Toughness at one point but that feat got removed and Hps werent adjusted.
pg. 111 - Ixxiata -
The creature's CR is only correct if levels in the prestige class are considered to be non-associated levels.
The character's 60' Darkvision is not listed.
Orc is not on the character's list of racial bonus languages and the character is also short three languages.
Because the creature's ability array seems to have been built using the 25 point system his hit points should have been maximized at first level; therefore he is 4 hp short.
The DC of the creature's Mind Blast should be 21 instead of 22 (10+spell level of 4+charisma bonus of 5+ability focus feat bonus of 2).
I do not believe that the creature's class levels should add to the manifester level of it's racial psionic abilities.
The creature does not actually have the alarm or clairvoyance/clairaudience spell-like abilities, it instead has a supernatural ability which resembles a more limited version of both. Therefore, this should have been listed as an entry under SQ.
The creature's dimension door spell-like ability should be 6/day instead of 5/day.
The creature's Appraise modifier should be listed because of his Craft synergy.
The creature has at least 23 skill points too many (assuming that only 17 skill ranks were purchased cross-class).
Yeah, the substitution levels were great, seriously. I get a little sniffly thinking about the Paladin version. ;)

Yeah, and the Ranger var is fantastic.
pg. 111 - Acidborn Shark -
As a (former) animal a shark should have low-light vision since the entry does not specifically note that it doesn't have the trait.
The creature is 1 skill point short.

pg. 113 - Guardian Gorgon -
The creature is missing the scent ability.
The creature has 1 hp too many.

pg. 114 - Elder Sentry Pudding -
The creature's Will save should be +8.
The creature's Wisdom and Charisma scores should be 11 instead of 10.
The creature is 12 skill points short.
Oh, Wizards. Why do you even put sample statblocks in your books?
pg. 111 - Acidborn Shark -
As a (former) animal a shark should have low-light vision since the entry does not specifically note that it doesn't have the trait.
The creature is 1 skill point short.

pg. 113 - Guardian Gorgon -
The creature is missing the scent ability.
The creature has 1 hp too many.

pg. 114 - Elder Sentry Pudding -
The creature's Will save should be +8.
The creature's Wisdom and Charisma scores should be 11 instead of 10.
The creature is 12 skill points short.

This might be a bit closer to hairsplitting...except for the Elder Sentry pudding, that one I agree does need a modded will save.
Here is some more errata.

pg. 115 - Hivenest Minotaur Zombie -
I think that the alignment should probably change from N (the alignment of the swarm) to NE (the alignment of the zombie).

pg. 124 - I noticed in passing that the Glacial Jet Trap doesn't provide an AC for the block of ice. Other than this I don't plan to actually check any of the traps in the book for accuracy. If anybody else wants to try, then feel free.

pg. 142 - Annotation 4 for table 7-1 indicates that calcified web walls increase the Climb DC by 5 while the second line of page 23 indicates that it reduces the DC by 5.

pg. 142 - The slick property on the table indicates that it increases Climb DC's by 10 while the entry on page 144 indicates that it increases the DC by 5.
This is more of a comment: The factotum's Cunning Strike ability seems really awful in comparison to simply using Cunning Insight's plus-to-damage mode. I understand that these can stack, but at just 1d6 per point spent, I would be hard-pressed to come up with an organic scenario that justifies the ability. I can't even think of another class ability that is as poor in cost-benefit ratio and circumstantial usefulness.
This is more of a comment: The factotum's Cunning Strike ability seems really awful in comparison to simply using Cunning Insight's plus-to-damage mode. I understand that these can stack, but at just 1d6 per point spent, I would be hard-pressed to come up with an organic scenario that justifies the ability. I can't even think of another class ability that is as poor in cost-benefit ratio and circumstantial usefulness.

It's a good stealth knockout ability. It's not useful for a long encounter, but if you just need to stealth dispatch one enemy it can be all you need. Remember not every encounter is against high level baddies, sometimes all you need is one good stealthy whack. A rogue is meant to be able to stealth standard gaurds that patrol hallways and the like, with this ability a factotem can too. Remember if you can keep being stealthy, you can turn each gaurd into an individual encounter, this can be the difference between whether you get noticed or not. The point of Factotem is to be able to do what other classes can do in a pinch.
the Deadwood terrain gives a morale bonus to undead. Undead don't benefit from morale bonuses.
It's a good stealth knockout ability. It's not useful for a long encounter, but if you just need to stealth dispatch one enemy it can be all you need. Remember not every encounter is against high level baddies, sometimes all you need is one good stealthy whack. A rogue is meant to be able to stealth standard gaurds that patrol hallways and the like, with this ability a factotem can too. Remember if you can keep being stealthy, you can turn each gaurd into an individual encounter, this can be the difference between whether you get noticed or not. The point of Factotem is to be able to do what other classes can do in a pinch.

So, if you encounter:
  • a single guard at a time
  • who can't detect your presence beforehand (or your party's, I suppose)
  • and is low enough level to die in one shot from a handful of d6
  • and you never miss

...then it lets you dispatch them without incident. Awesome.

That's one of the more reasonable scenarios I've seen for this ability, but it's still uncommonly bad. At the level difference you would need in order to be somewhat sure of a one-shot kill (just 20 hit points requires 5d6 to get through on average with weapon damage included, which makes you at least level 8. 30 hit points probably needs 7d6, which makes you level 14), what character can't do this?
I know. Its really pathetic.
the Deadwood terrain gives a morale bonus to undead. Undead don't benefit from morale bonuses.

D'oh!
the Deadwood terrain gives a morale bonus to undead. Undead don't benefit from morale bonuses.

I have thought that any intelligent undead can allow the morale effect to affect them.


The SRD, in Magic Overview under Saving throw, states:

Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.

The Players Handbook in the same section gives an example of an elf being put to sleep by a sleep spell, beacuse he wants to, even though is is IMMUNE to sleep effects.

Undead are IMMUNE to Morale effects, doesn't mean they can't allow them to affect them.
:D

---EDITED--
found this in the DND glossary under Morale:
"Nonintelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses."
There is no save tied to Deadwood terrain.

If you're undead, you get a morale bonus from standing on top of it. If you're not, you don't get the bonus.

And then, the other part kicks in. Since you're undead, morale bonus means nothing to you.

There is another terrain - Elementum or something. It deals elemental damage to you, but infuses you attacks with more damage.
So let's asume you're a Fire Elemental. You stand on the terrain and fire starts flowing from the terain to your claws or whatever it is that elementals use. Great, you hit people with more awesome. Also, the terrain burninates you. But guess what? You don't care, since you're Fire elemental and you're immnune to that damage.
Beast Heart Adept (or as I will demand my players call it "Monster Buddy") is fantastic. I really liked this book old fashioned lateral thing for dungeons and a good ammount of humour.

Thumbs up to the authors.

Mmmm. Beast Heart Adept.

I love combining this PrC with the fighter, since you have to be at least level five to meet the prereqs of this PrC.
There is no price listed for masterwork drills.
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