4/10/2014 CT: "Phenomenal Cosmic Powers"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Command Tower, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com

Commander has no sideboard.

I got two interrelated questions about Kruphix, the first one was if the not emptied uncolored mana will remain there even during the opponent's turn, and the second one is that, if that's is the case, if someone exiles your Kruphix, will the mana be there until the current phase finishes, or it will disappear with Kruphix.

 

I hope I've explained myself a little bit

@hyuganofis: the answer to both rulings is yes. See rulings for Omnath. You can use the mana on your opponent's turn, and if he leaves the battlefield, you have until the end of the turn to use the mana.

 

SClone wrote:

Commander has no sideboard.

 

Little known fact:  Technically it actually does.

Here's the official rules page.

http://mtgcommander.com/rules.php

 

Check out the "Optional" tab and the first subsection is for sideboards.

Similarly the "Play" tab, item number 15, specifically calls out effects like wishes (and thereby spawnsire) that grab cards from outside the game.

 

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

But at least Omnath specifically says your mana pool doesn't empty; Kruphix doesn't, and so is actually pretty confusing. 

 

It just says if unused mana would empty, it becomes colourless instead. This seems to imply the mana simply becomes colourless before your mana pool empties. There's obviously some rules templating that is being skipped over here for the sake of the space on the card.

 

Should they really be doing that?

Thanks a lot, @Aelvr!

Hotspur000 wrote:

But at least Omnath specifically says your mana pool doesn't empty; Kruphix doesn't, and so is actually pretty confusing. 

 

It just says if unused mana would empty, it becomes colourless instead. This seems to imply the mana simply becomes colourless before your mana pool empties. There's obviously some rules templating that is being skipped over here for the sake of the space on the card.

 

Should they really be doing that?

You seem to be overlooking the word "instead".

orcishartillery wrote:

 

Hotspur000 wrote:

But at least Omnath specifically says your mana pool doesn't empty; Kruphix doesn't, and so is actually pretty confusing. 

 

It just says if unused mana would empty, it becomes colourless instead. This seems to imply the mana simply becomes colourless before your mana pool empties. There's obviously some rules templating that is being skipped over here for the sake of the space on the card.

 

Should they really be doing that?

 

You seem to be overlooking the word "instead".

 

If they're trying to fit all that in by simply using the word 'instead,' I think they did a pretty poor job or writing up the card. 

 

 

Yeah I was confused by the wording of this card too. To me it reads:

 

"If unused mana would empty from your mana pool, that mana becomes colorless" before emptying from your mana pool. "Instead" is not clear at all. Leaves a lot to be desired. It doesn't specifically say the colorless mana doesn't empty from the pool. It sounds like the mana changes color before emptying. And "instead" seems to imply "instead of being colored" but empties all the same.

 

I agree. Very poor job.

 
"Rock beats scissors, paper beats rock, scissors beat paper, rock beats scissors..." I'm not interested in what card beats what. That's a circular discussion.

I will also state that I did not at all get the impression (and still do not) that the rules for Kruphix allows for the mana to remain in play.  The intent of the text may be trying to state that; however that is not how I or several people I know have read it.  My friends and I all thought this was some gimmick ability to play off of a card that hadn't been previewed yet.  Or, after some discussion on it, that their was some odd rule nuance that none of us were grasping.  Hence why I came here.

 

I would go ahead and get the errata written for this one guys.  Current text just does not work as intended.  Not a hater, just giving honest feedback on a card I've been looking forward to.

Yeah ... it seems like this a card that needs errata before it's even released to make it work. 

I've been around the game for a while, and I was also confused about whether the now colorless mana stuck around. Omnath spells is out, Kruphix doesn't. The text box is pretty filled though, I can understand why they went with instead....instead.

I think what they should have done is, instead of 'You have no maximum hand size' (because really, how often do people hold more than 7 cards unless they're doing something crazy?) they should have written 'your mana pool does not empty after phases'.

 

They took up necessary space with something basically unnecessary. 

 

: put a drop counter on this.

Remove a drop counter: pull .

 

 

NO WAR

 

Cartoon The Fish

Got blocked out of twitter

looks like Mtg hasn't given up using the word "battlefield" which is completely unnecessary as the board is be considered the default state

The text reads just like any other replacement effect, though.  "Does the mana empty like normal at end-of-step/phase?"  "No, it becomes colorless instead."  Even in English, saying "Yes, it becomes colorless instead" doesn't make any sense.

You have no maximum hand size is very important. I understand that in standard this may never come into play, but in Commander, where I plan on playing this, it is very important. As a matter of fact, the second part is the part I don't really care that much about. That being said, I don't think this needs errata. Omnath does spell it out, but Omnath is also targeting only green mana. If I produce 10 colorless mana with Omnath in play, it goes away. (Side note, Omnath and Kruphix do not get along.) Kruphix as written says "If unused mana would empty from your mana pool, that mana becomes colorless instead." How in the name of timing rules could that mean anything but it changes and stays. Otherwise you would be stuck in a phase if you had mana left over at the end of it. Ok I have 1 green mana, I end first main phase. Oh look this card says if I have mana left over it becomes colorless mana, now I go back into my first main phase. I end it again. Oh look I had 1 colorless mana, it converts to 1 colorless mana and I go back into my first main phase... . So really we have a relacement effect. Mana doesn't empty, it becomes colorless. No different than if the card said "If a player would draw a card, that player discards a card instead."

Aelvr wrote:

@hyuganofis: the answer to both rulings is yes. See rulings for Omnath. You can use the mana on your opponent's turn, and if he leaves the battlefield, you have until the end of the turn to use the mana.

This is false. You only have until the end of that step or phase.

Itty bitty living space.

 

Anyway, Kruphix is no less clear than any other replacement ability.

 

Important thing: Magic syntax is actually very particular. If you were going to world this ability it had to be done this way, or broken into two abilities. Breaking it into two abilities is an ineligant solution and there isn't room for it. Also, why have replacement abilities if you're not going to use them when appropriate.

 

Replacement wording:

"If unused mana would empty from your mana pool, that mana becomes colorless instead."

 

Static+Trigger wording:

"Mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end.

At the end of each step or phase, unused mana in your mana pool becomes colorless."

 

The second wording is super messy, but it's literally the only alternative that doesn't involve free ballin' it with the game rules.

"no, I had 13 mana stored in my mana pool"

 

is that a memory  issue ?

NO WAR

 

Cartoon The Fish

Got blocked out of twitter

looks like Mtg hasn't given up using the word "battlefield" which is completely unnecessary as the board is be considered the default state

I understand templating and card room... but I'm looking at Ajani, and noticing the incredibly small text size. And then I look at Kruphix and think, thiiiiittt.... they done effed up.

"Rock beats scissors, paper beats rock, scissors beat paper, rock beats scissors..." I'm not interested in what card beats what. That's a circular discussion.

damage "markers" are removed at the beganning of your end step

NO WAR

 

Cartoon The Fish

Got blocked out of twitter

looks like Mtg hasn't given up using the word "battlefield" which is completely unnecessary as the board is be considered the default state

I've been thinking more about it. The problem is that the way it's worded now, the 'instead' at the end seems to refer only to the colour of the unused mana.

 

"If unused mana would empty from your mana pool, that mana becomes colourless instead." 

 

It should read:

 

"If unused mana would empty from your mana pool, that mana becomes colourless instead of empyting." 

 

Just those two words would solve the problem, and they would've fit on the card.

 

 

Flyheight wrote:

 

SClone wrote:

Commander has no sideboard.

 

 

Little known fact:  Technically it actually does.

Here's the official rules page.

http://mtgcommander.com/rules.php

 

Check out the "Optional" tab and the first subsection is for sideboards.

Similarly the "Play" tab, item number 15, specifically calls out effects like wishes (and thereby spawnsire) that grab cards from outside the game.

 

 

The actual rules are on http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/100cardsingleton-commander , and are based on those rules you mentioned.

Optional rules are by default non-active.

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