2/3/2014 Feature: "February 3, 2014, DCI Banned & Restricted List Announcement"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Feature, "February 3, 2014, DCI Banned & Restricted List Announcement", which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.

Couldn't you have just unbanned something for a change and not banned anything? Banning Deathrite Shaman is ridiculous. And Jund is just terrible now. It had decent matchups across the board,but just feels bad now. Turn 2 Liliana of the Veil was one of the last really powerful things Jund could do and now that is gone. I absolutely hate bans and they are always at terrible times for me too. For example I just got foil Deathrite Shamans not too long ago....well a lot of good those will do me now, so thanks for that. I want to like Modern but constant bans make it really hard for me to like this format. I shouldn't have to be afraid of what will be banned when I'm looking at getting in to a archetype.

 

The format was in a fine place and over regulating it is boring. There was at least 4-5 top tier decks. BGx, Pod, UWR, G/R Tron and Splinter Twin and all of the variants involved with those archetypes. This isn't Legacy and banning everything half way decent isn't going to make it Legacy.

Banning Deathrite Shaman is ridiculous.  You're scared about attrition based cards.... so you're going to unban Biterrblossom also?  How does this make any logical sense?  There are going to be a LOT of unhappy people because of this.

I was hoping for some shaking up of Vintage, such as unrestricting Gifts Ungiven or Library of Alexandria.

 

But it could have gone a lot worse than "no changes" I suppose.

Explanation of February 3, 2014 B&R Changes:

 

We hate Sol Malka.

 

"Ban everything until Rock is good, then ban Rock."

If you look at results, BGx has done a lot worse than UWx recently. There's a lot of Jund/Junk decks out there and that is the reason we often see them in top 8s but UWx is consistently winning them and yet there was never a whisper of banning anything out of there. Completely and utterly ridiculous to remove a card (which is so easy to deal with btw) because it has early game, mid game and end game utility. Not to mention that DRS was stopping certain strategies from coming out and breaking the format (I'm looking at you Goryo's Vengeance, amongst others). 

 

Great job Wizards, "fixing" what ain't broke. Modern was a nice diverse format with no one archetype being truly dominant. Now we will see all the ridiculousness that DRS was holding at bay.

Gah.. This is just silly, wotc just stop it. I feel like you randomly throw darts to ban and unban cards in modern.

SkankyMuppet wrote:

If you look at results, BGx has done a lot worse than UWx recently. There's a lot of Jund/Junk decks out there and that is the reason we often see them in top 8s but UWx is consistently winning them and yet there was never a whisper of banning anything out of there. Completely and utterly ridiculous to remove a card (which is so easy to deal with btw) because it has early game, mid game and end game utility. Not to mention that DRS was stopping certain strategies from coming out and breaking the format (I'm looking at you Goryo's Vengeance, amongst others). 

 

Great job Wizards, "fixing" what ain't broke. Modern was a nice diverse format with no one archetype being truly dominant. Now we will see all the ridiculousness that DRS was holding at bay.

 

I'm broke

NO WAR

 

Sivitri Scarzam rose to challenge the Craw Wurm but was slain by Durkwood Boars.

Liliana emergent

I have nothing to say except THANK YOU WOTC! I really like these decisions and I've been dying to play my beloved Bitterblossoms again. Removing Deathrite Shaman and adding BB really opens up the format for grave-decks (hopefully something combo-ish will emerge) as well as making control much more viable. I'm also glad that you came around to unbanning angry kitty, that ban was just silly.

once again I would like to thank wizards for screwing thousands of people and me over for the third, forth and fifth time first storm,second eggs and now pod,rock and jund, great job killing 3 decks at once this time( and for those of you who will say pod is not dead it dead flat out  kiki pod and all other forms of pod just right out suck and do not even hold 1% of the greatness that melira pod did )   all I half to say is that iam done with modern, modern is now just as stupid as standard going back to the only format thats ever mattered legacy.

PoDisDead wrote:

once again I would like to thank wizards for screwing thousands of people and me over for the third, forth and fifth time first storm,second eggs and now pod,rock and jund, great job killing 3 decks at once this time( and for those of you who will say pod is not dead it dead flat out  kiki pod and all other forms of pod just right out suck and do not even hold 1% of the greatness that melira pod did )   all I half to say is that iam done with modern, modern is now just as stupid as standard going back to the only format thats ever mattered legacy.

 

I am not too sure why you think Pod is dead, especially Melira Pod. Although, as a Melira Pod player, I am not happy with the DRS banning, I do think that a lot of thought has gone into this. Pod usually only ran 2, and most games you wouldnt have even played it. It does balance out though - Now I cannot play one to counter opponents graveyard tricks, but now most decks do not have a game 1 answer to combo-ing of with murderous redcap and friends.

 "At the time Wild Nacatl was banned" and "At the time of Modern's inception"... Oh Wizards, pretending like you actually knew what was good for us, like you actually knew how to make a new format, and act like you knew what was best for an entirely new and unplayed metagame. That's funny Wizards. Good one.

really??? ban deathrite shaman was a really crappy move. Blue still has snapcaster which now has become even more ridiculous. Why not ban pod? pod makes retarded combos which are no fun to play against, deathrite shaman was just a creature and you had many ways to shut it dowm.

 

Saying that this bans are because of jund is just dumb, jund wasn't even that good. Sure it was a powerful deck but it wasn't op.

I like the unbannings. More cards for more archetypes.

 

Banning Deathrite Shaman feels unnecessary... It was annoying in certain matchups, but you can't ban a card just because it's annoying right? I always cringe when someone casts a splinter twin on a faerie to win in the most lame way possible, but hey, if they like winning that way, be my guest, it doesn't mean the card has to go. I don't feel Deathrite was that dominant.

Personally I would've prefered a ban of either Thoughtseize or Inquisition if you wanted to hurt that kind of deck, although I can see banning Inquisition while unbanning Wild Nacatl might be a bit weird, and Thoughtseize just returned in Standard... but either way, I don't think Jund was that much of a problem.

 

As for a turn 2 Lilliana, you can always use Birds of Paradise or Elves of Deep Shadow =)

 

 

They should unban Deathrite shaman because it keeps alot of decks in the format on par with blue deaks and other over powered decks, note I was just finishing converting my Legacy JUND  deck to modern but do to this banning of DR I will  not play modern untill this card is unbanned because what to stop them banning any goods cards in the future that I use. This banning will effectivly reduce the amount of people who will continue playing this format professionally it will cause blue to increase in domance in th this format. THINK ABOUT IT!!!! + you can Counter it, Burn it and remove it with any god damed removel.

As someone who doesn't play Jund/Junk, I'm kinda happy that I don't have to face Deathrite Shaman anymore.  However, I'm not sure what it does for the format.  There are plenty of commonly run answers, including the near ubiquitous Pithing Needle.  WotC, I understand you're trying to maintain the health of the format, but I'm not sure this was the right move.  Like Wild Nacatl, this ban will likely be retracted.

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

Ikbob wrote:
As for a turn 2 Lilliana, you can always use Birds of Paradise or Elves of Deep Shadow =)

Bop and Elves are not castable off of and do not deal 2 unblockable damage or gain 2 while nerfing graveyard strategies just as a bonus. WHILE ALSO BEING A DAMN 1/2.

 

Seriously, why does it have 2 thoughness? It's absurd.

 

I am very happy with this ban

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?

What it does bud is speed up green and black decks to content with blue keeping them in check and it helps with graveyard combo decks

Fenix. wrote:

 

Ikbob wrote:
As for a turn 2 Lilliana, you can always use Birds of Paradise or Elves of Deep Shadow =)

Bop and Elves are not castable off of and do not deal 2 unblockable damage or gain 2 while nerfing graveyard strategies just as a bonus. WHILE ALSO BEING A DAMN 1/2.

 

Seriously, why does it have 2 thoughness? It's absurd.

 

I am very happy with this ban

 

lol so mad against DS that you can't see how unhealty the ban is for the format. Try to see beyond your belly button, blue is not the only colour in magic.

martin286 wrote:

 

Fenix. wrote:

 

Ikbob wrote:
As for a turn 2 Lilliana, you can always use Birds of Paradise or Elves of Deep Shadow =)

Bop and Elves are not castable off of and do not deal 2 unblockable damage or gain 2 while nerfing graveyard strategies just as a bonus. WHILE ALSO BEING A DAMN 1/2.

 

Seriously, why does it have 2 thoughness? It's absurd.

 

I am very happy with this ban

 

 

lol so mad against DS that you can't see how unhealty the ban is for the format. Try to see beyond your belly button, blue is not the only colour in magic.

I like black as much as blue, maybe even more. Deathrite Shaman is a black card. So I do not see how being happy with this ban relates with colour preferences.

 

(by the way, Green is also my 3rd favourite color)

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
I think I'm done playing, and done convincing people to play Modern until they stop making unnecessary bans. It's really hard to justify playing a format where they ban decks/archetypes this often. It's incredibly frustrating.

evouga wrote:

I was hoping for some shaking up of Vintage, such as unrestricting Gifts Ungiven or Library of Alexandria.

 

But it could have gone a lot worse than "no changes" I suppose.

 

Both those cards are in a funny spot.  Neither of them is all that strong as a singleton, especially when compared to most of the rest of the Restricted List.  But as four-ofs?  WAAAAAYYY too powerful.  If they could be limited to, say, two-ofs, that would be a good number, but I doubt WotC would ever go that route.

 

Also, Library would immediately jump from $200 to $400+ on the spot, which would only make a lot of people mad.

The Ban on Deathrite is attempt by Wotc to treat the symptoms and not the problem that is fetchlands.  I understand that fethlands are so ingrained in modern that banning them would cause more touble than it is worth at this point but I think if Wotc could go back and put together the initial ban list again it would include fetchlands. I mean think about all the multicolored lands modern has access too and they all play the same mana base fetchlands and shocklands. Fetchlands distort they power levels of cards by putting lands into the graveyard on turn 1. We see this with Tarmagoyf and Deathrite especially, I mean it is not too uncommon to see turn 1 fetchlands into thoughtsieze where you take a non sorcery card and then turn two Tarmagofy and he is already a 3/4 and out of bolt range but without that fetch you can still bolt him without fetchlands Deathrite isn't always strictly better than Birds of Paradise. I don't think Deathrite or Tarmagoyf should be banned but I think I see what wizards is trying to do.

OMG you are kidding right WotC? Unbanning wild nactl? Do you not remember how Zoo dominated? What else have you done to slow that deck since? Its gonna be zoo, zoo, zoo again. Really glad i dont play this joke of a format unless its required for a PTQ or GP trial. Also really sick of players trying to insist this is a good format. If you wanna play an eternal format go vintage/legacy not this weak shadow of them.

ObligedRain wrote:

The Ban on Deathrite is attempt by Wotc to treat the symptoms and not the problem that is fetchlands.  I understand that fethlands are so ingrained in modern that banning them would cause more touble than it is worth at this point but I think if Wotc could go back and put together the initial ban list again it would include fetchlands. I mean think about all the multicolored lands modern has access too and they all play the same mana base fetchlands and shocklands. Fetchlands distort they power levels of cards by putting lands into the graveyard on turn 1. We see this with Tarmagoyf and Deathrite especially, I mean it is not too uncommon to see turn 1 fetchlands into thoughtsieze where you take a non sorcery card and then turn two Tarmagofy and he is already a 3/4 and out of bolt range but without that fetch you can still bolt him without fetchlands Deathrite isn't always strictly better than Birds of Paradise. I don't think Deathrite or Tarmagoyf should be banned but I think I see what wizards is trying to do.

I don't think so.  The only problem with the Fetchlands is availability.  Modern is a "big boy format," so to speak.  Fast fixing is part of the equation.  They're one of the last big pieces that need to be reprinted for access to the format.  Since they have yet to reprint them, I'd wager that they'll be returning to Standard when Return to Ravnica block rotates.  The only other option would be the inevitable Modern Masters 2:  Modern Harder.  Heck, the cost of fetchlands is the reason I'm only making mono-colored decks for Modern.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

i totally agree with~~darkinsanity~~banning DRS was uncalled for...always banning stuff reguardless of the reason makes people afraid to play the format for fear of what gets banned next. 'goyf is a card every1 fears and it has never even been thought of for a ban...the game has ways to deal with cards...from direct damage to removing it from the game.

also~~SkankyMuppet~~has it right as well...~Not to mention that DRS was stopping certain strategies from coming out and breaking the format (I'm looking at you Goryo's Vengeance, amongst others).~~~Modern was a nice diverse format with no one archetype being truly dominant. Now we will see all the ridiculousness that DRS was holding at bay.~~~

PLEASE STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deathrite Shaman was probably the victim of being the cheapest and most widely available to ban out of the G/B/x decks (of which Jund was the most prevalent) that played four copies each of Liliana, Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, and Deathrite Shaman along with fetchlands.   It will probably be relatively ineffective since Shaman was the weakest of the bunch.   Liliana/Confidant/Goyf with fetchlands is the real engine.  My observation on MTGO over the weekend was that people seemed to be experimenting with builds that incorporate Young Pyromancer as the auto-4 of in Shaman's place and splashed white. 

 

Fetchlands are almost certain to see a reprint sometime in the near future, probably in a limited supply set like Modern Masters II, but possibly in a fall set.

The banning of DRS is completely unwarranted and shakes up confidence in the entire format.  This was an intentionally malicious move on the part of WOTC, since I know they are capable of basic mathematical analysis, and have seen snapcaster mage decks win 60%+ of the tournaments this year anyhow (and they just buff it again by removing DRS againts flashblack).  The multitude of garbage that DRS was holding back from the format was an intergral part of what used to be called modern as well.  I see that the plans for modern are to turn it into the Yu-Gi-Oh! format of the game. 

 

Sincerely,

wiz_tards 

Ikbob wrote:

Banning Deathrite Shaman feels unnecessary... It was annoying in certain matchups, but you can't ban a card just because it's annoying right?

 

Why not? Counterspell was removed from the Core Set because it was annoying. If avoiding annoying things is one of the centerpieces of set design these days, why not go the next step and ban annoying cards from eternal formats?

 

Legacy and Vintage players, of course, have a higher tolerance for annoyance, since people play those formats to be able to use their old cards. But Modern is still aimed at relatively new players. I was going to say that Modern sells boosters, but in my opinion Legacy and Vintage also help sell boosters by demonstrating to people that their cards won't become worthless: people who say the secondary market does nothing for Wizards, so why not reprint Black Lotus, are missing that fact. Still, Modern is seen as one of the formats that sells boosters directly, a format for people who also play Standard a lot. So keeping annoying cards out of it makes perfect sense.

 

RxPhantom wrote:

Modern is a "big boy format," so to speak.

 

So I guess what I'm saying is that despite our hopes for a "big boy" format that doesn't require the expensive cards needed to play Legacy, let alone Vintage, seriously, Wizards clearly thinks Modern is a "kiddie" format just like Standard - because that kind of format serves it more directly in terms of selling cards.

 

I'm disappointed; reading the article, it seemed that their rationale for the changes was sound. The fact that only two people liked it on this thread might not prove too much; after all, people are more likely to post about something that they don't like than something they're satisfied with. But even if the changes are appropriate, the points raised by some of the posts to indicate something that is unfortunate.

 

However, it shouldn't be much of a surprise, and I think it's still better to have Modern, even with its limitations, than not to. As well, if banning Deathrite Shaman does result in overpowered decks dominating the format, as some have feared, it can always be unbanned again. A balanced meta is "fun", and so people should not worry that Wizards wants a situation where a few decks dominate.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

I think they should have unbanned Bitter and WIld, but not banned Deathrite. And I am someone who has lost A LOT of games to Deathrite in Modern.

Maybe next time you can unban Seething Song? I'd like to be able to play Storm, Gruul Smash, or Super Red Burn again...

I'm in favor of the changes. Part of the point of banning/unbanning *should* be to keep formats from being too annoying, imho, and DRS is just kind of an inherently irritating card in a way that Snapcaster Mage isn't. Snappie does his thing, then is done with it; he's not out there making value turn after turn so that you kind of just want to flick him away off the table with your finger.

I'm curious to see what the two unbannings do, too. I like aggro decks, so Wild Nacatl is particularly a fun one to me.

 

Then again, I'm just a lurker to Modern because my local community *hates* it. (At our biggest LGS, which is an advanced level store [? forget the term for this at the moment--basically I mean it gets max # of prerelease boxes and so on b/c of its WPN status] and everything, we had one person show up to a Modern GPT. *One*.) I've thought about getting into it online, but I haven't committed yet. (And if I did, it might just be to a Norin's Sisters-type brew--cheap, hilarious, and unlikely to be affected by future bannings!)

I have to say though, the thought of future bannings does make me a little nervous about investing in the format. Overall, though, I think they're for the good, and we've seen that if bannings are inappropriate, eventually they're reversed. I think that'll help cards hold their value over the long term.

great. now my $8 deathrites aren't worth the paper they're printed on. oh well, this is why i play EDH.

EDH decks I play:

 

Prossh: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4101381

 

Derevi: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4115936

 

Kaalia (the beats)

 

Zur (disgusting combo)

 

Damia (Bug Elf deck)

 

Numot (Stax)

 

Griselbrand (French)

 

Ghave (Uber combo)

 

Muzzio (Oops, Blightsteel)

Smoke_Stack wrote:
great. now my $8 deathrites aren't worth the paper they're printed on. oh well, this is why i play EDH.

 

Not true, they are still seeing heavy play in legacy and they will eventually be unbanned.

 

MrSunso wrote:

Maybe next time you can unban Seething Song? I'd like to be able to play Storm, Gruul Smash, or Super Red Burn again...

 

Don't think so, wizards is against combo in modern which is ok since it sucks to play against a deck with no interaction.

martin286 wrote:

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:
great. now my $8 deathrites aren't worth the paper they're printed on. oh well, this is why i play EDH.

 

Not true, they are still seeing heavy play in legacy and they will eventually be unbanned.

 

 

MrSunso wrote:

Maybe next time you can unban Seething Song? I'd like to be able to play Storm, Gruul Smash, or Super Red Burn again...

 

 

Don't think so, wizards is against combo in modern which is ok since it sucks to play against a deck with no interaction.

 

Wizards is decidedly not anti-combo in Modern.  If anything, this banning furthers combos.  They are opposed to combos that win with consistency in the first three turns.  Thus, Splinter Twin is tolerated because it rarely goes off before T4.

 

Hey Forsythe, get your a** on this thread and explain yourself. Your comapany's reasoning for Deathrite's banning is weak at best. You and your colleagues are supposedly the best at what you do so get on here and tell us EXACTLY why DRS is warping the format. Because it's "powerful at all stages of the game" isn't good enough. We're talking about Modern here, THEY"RE SUPPOSED TO BE POWERFUL. If I wanted to play with subpar cards, I'd play limited. 

 

These thoughtless decisions demonstrate a C- effort from a company that treats the Magic community like mindless consumers. Your entire company needs to get your a** in gear and be better at what you're paid to do. And I'm not just talking about this banning. I'm talking about Mind Seize. I'm talking about Commander's Arsenal. I'm talking about your inability to put out three decent sets in a row. The list goes on. Just because you've had some success the last few years doesn't mean you're giving us your BEST effort. If I had to sum up your performance in one word it would be: Inadequate

The problem with these bans is not the individual cards, it's in the way they push the format. Wild Nacatl is actually a good unban, it makes no sense to not have it in a format with delver. 

 

Howver, bitterblossom is not. On it's own, it seems like a fair card and it is. In Jund, that card is no problem. But the real issue is the faeries decks it resurrects. You thought DRS was too annoying? Spell stutter sprite is going to ruin your day. 

 

Now, let's go in depth on DRS. First, the complaint against it hosing graveyard strategies. Excluding DRS and snapcaster, only two decks really use the graveyard: living end and goryo's vengeance. DRS was never a real problem for living end. The deck could easily outface it and win when the end resolved. Goryo's vengeance was a good deck to keep in check: it fulfilled all the criteria of something too broken. It could consistently resolve it's griselbrand or emrakul provided it didn't face a shaman. Once it resolved the threat, it was very difficult to defeat. Shaman was a nice plug, keeping it from being a highly uninteractive consistent combo. DRS shaman also had another, more important function. Modern "wants" to move toward a landscape of potent combos and the blue decks that can counter them and follow up with strong clocks. In fact, it is these decks that have been the recent top performers. The missing ingredient here is fair green decks. Unbanning Nacatl does push the format back toward zoo aggro, abd that helps, but DRS was the only way B/G/x could consistently gain value as the game went on. And it's often terrible value. 2 life here and there becomes much less potent as the opponent tends to start doing broken (or at least much stronger) things. And the B/G/x decks haven't been so hot recently. But they pushed the format in a healthy direction : decks needed to be prepared for the fair game. Now, this archetype has no way to gain value except Lilliana. 

 

These bans push the format in a terrible direction (excepting Nacatl) and should be immediately retracted

well in response to eveyone. Lets not forget Protour RTR one year ago. Return to Ravnica made jund broken beyond what it originaly was.  I was runing jund in standard. I did not own the cards to play it in modern. nor did I have the $$$ to buy those suport cards. Yet when I watched any modern tournament weather a grand prix or protour or even a iq for modern, jund was the deck your playing against. if fact it is in the 85-99% that this type of deck you'ed be playing against in a sanctioned tournament. I do think wizards mad a erorr here. jund in modern as of 13 months ago was a tier one deck. and with the advent of devotion now and the abilites that acompany devotion is what I feel wizards may have had in mind when tey first banned bloodbraid elf.  Lets not forget R&D knows what is coming out next, and with devotion and deathrite and elf= banned. because of cascade and  graveyard abilities and devotion to any color of the shard. I can see why this hapend. Yet dark confidant and tarmogoyf are still at large and i believe Jund will emerge yet again with devotion and pack rat with lavamancer in the lead instead of BBE and Deathrite. I will most likely now build my bant hexproof for modern instead of jund. JB.

erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px" title="view quote" rel="nofollow">There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'

Half a year later, when they care, they'll reverse the decision to ban DRS, but only with the premise that an unbanning requires a banning, and they'll put some other deck archetype under (as long as it's not Delver).

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Power creep has made nacatl a normal card. To the few that think zoo will be the only dominant type your wrong. Jund is very strong, you go to a local shop 6/10 are playing UWx/R why? Because it's the only good response to not playing jund. Then who wins anyway? Mostly jund. Throw in tron winning and one random, the rest is uw and jund. That's the truth, deathrite powers it. I'm not a fan of the banning but it wasn't that unthinkable, remember when this card came out? People were saying how could this card exist in the first place.
Qilong wrote:

Half a year later, when they care, they'll reverse the decision to ban DRS, but only with the premise that an unbanning requires a banning, and they'll put some other deck archetype under (as long as it's not Delver).

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