8/21/2013 Feature

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This thread is for discussion of the feature article which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I'm a little underwhelmed. Everything feels a little too derivative of Greek Mythology. While I recognize that Theros is the Greek Mythology block, I was hoping for a bit more of the Magic twist most sets that are based on real-world mythology have. Nothing about it is bad per se, it just feels too literal I guess?

I am glad to see that Purphoros is a god of art. Red's artisitic side hardly ever gets real coverage, and it's nice to see the artistic side of red rather than the "Red-Smash!" side for once.
I really like the Sandman-esque perspective on Gods and belief, where peoples' belief give Gods power and in turn Gods rewards people for their belief.

I also really like how Erebos is portrayed as an anti-hero who is not evil, but misunderstood, and how even then he's still the most transparent out of the five major gods. Best take on a black theme yet.

Lastly I like how you give tribute to Vesta, goddess of the hearth and in a small way Ceres, goddess of agriculture in Karametra. I feel like they're both really under-represented in mythology but are both very important to Greek and Roman society.


kudos. can't wait for part 2.
Well, Greek mythology is kinda overdone, but at least you didn't make the Hades expy evil, so I guess it's alright. Could've been worse.
So let's see...

Heliod: Zeus*Apollon.
Thassa: Poseidon is obvious, but I wonder about the precepts of knowledge. This is arguably Apollon again (q.v. him becoming the god of oracles after he slew Python). Doesn't look like Athene's jurisdiction.
Erebos: Hades as he was actually understood by the ancient Hellenes. This alone means it's perfectly fine for him not to be hybridized with another theoi. The more we have of non-evil Hades, the better. (And if you ABSOLUTELY need an evil divinity of death, how about conscripting his Titan predecessor, Iapetos?)
Purphoros: Hephaistos, with Poseidon's temperamental side thrown in. Maybe a little of Dionysos as well?
Nylea: Artemis, easy. Odd that she approves of domesticated animals, but not agriculture and cities. Maybe just hounds and other hunting companions? It also looks like Demeter was divided between her and Karametra (Karametra's other aspect being Hestia).

I wouldn't have minded seeing more on Karametra, but it's obvious the crucial point here was to bring up the major divinity for each color.
The gods themselves are living enchantments, eh?
I think I might just have to buy some cards from this block even if I never get around to playing it. So far the art is beautiful and it's absolutely dripping with flavor.

I also love how all five gods are equally generally good people who have reckless, vengeful sides.
I was originally not interested in this block because I love Greek mythology and didn't want to see how it would be bastardized into Magic ... but this actually does look like it could be interesting. 

Have to wait and see how the cards turn out.  
Wow. My initial reaction is to be very impressed. This is no glib Greek ripoff, but there looks to be real depth here. Like others, I love how balanced the deities have been portrayed, rather than the easy stereotyping that could have happened. Delighted to see that living enchantments are definitely a thing (with what look to be temporary red ones from Purphoros), and that there are more gods than just the big 5, plus various nymphs.
Also, a leonin in the Mathias Kollros art?
Not sure what to think. They said over and over they wouldn't make the same mistake that Kamigawa did, where they put in the actual elements of the culture, instead of what the audience was expecting. So for Theros, they've basically taken Greek culture and smushed together all the stuff that we did know into something just different enough that they could trademark.

While I enjoy the Greek myths, so far the flavor of this set isn't totally winning me over. It's just Malibu Stacy with a New Hat. 

Hopefully the cards themselves will win me over, especially the new rumored dual lands. 

Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
i really hope the writer and the readers realise that hoplite is a soldier and phalanx is a formation, and i don't want to see any card with hoplite in its name showing a formation in the art or vice versa.
I'm super excited that the red god was modelled on Hephaestus rather than Ares (or Vulcan and Mars, if you prefer).  The god of the forge doesn't get enough recognition in modern references to classical mythology.

Edit:  Also, Satyrs!  Yay!  Pranks for all!
I really like this. I REALLY like this. As an ENORMOUS fan of Greco-Roman mythology, this just feels so right. I really like the feel this world is evoking so far, as well as the setup we're getting right now. I'm still not quite sure where this is going, but now I am sure that wherever it's going, I'm gonna like it.



Side note: I'm really going to have to prep myself for people not understanding some things in Theros because of lacking knowledge in ancient culture. I'm quite certain that's going to be a serious problem for me.

Momus, the Greek god of sarcasm

Pray to him.

Unbelievably awesome.

I'm always impressed by how they find visual ways to communicate an aspect of something on cards (like the orbiting glow around Darksteel, or the rusty kitchen sink look of White Phyrexians) and I love the "see the night-sky dream world through the sillhouette" look of the Gods!

The descriptions of the Gods were awesome. They're not just a re-statement of each color's basic philosophy. The Black one was especially cool for not just being some typical plotting, hateful Lord of Hell.

I liked the little details. "Heliod presides over matters of family honor, questions of morality and virtue, speeches, marriages, acts of protective bravery, dawn meals, and self-sacrifice." For modern people, dawn meals sounds such a random-ass thing to be thrown in among things such as honor or virtue. It feels like a historical text where you get the sense that ancient people had different sensibilities. 
Goblin Artisans - A Magic Design Blog by GDS2 Contestants and Collaborators
I liked the little details. "Heliod presides over matters of family honor, questions of morality and virtue, speeches, marriages, acts of protective bravery, dawn meals, and self-sacrifice." For modern people, dawn meals sounds such a random-ass thing to be thrown in among things such as honor or virtue. It feels like a historical text where you get the sense that ancient people had different sensibilities. 


Jesus is with you whenever you show an act of kindness to another, forgive a grudge, uphold truthfulness, eat cereal with your daily coffee, ....

Goblin Artisans - A Magic Design Blog by GDS2 Contestants and Collaborators
Well, it is a bit boring, sorry to say that.

I know, the color wheel is holy to WotC, but must we really repeat the known stuff about the personality of the colors in every block and every lore you craft? After 2 sentences I knew what the whole article was about.

I ask: Why not try something different? Does the number of gods really have to be 5? Does every color really need a god? Why not make 4 gods, and have facettes of his or her personality be shown in cards of different color?
That at least would have made them interesting. Now they are just a repeat of a MaRo article about the karma of the colors.

Furthermore: You really have made the names more fantasy-like, instead of changing just one letter, as for instance Helios /Heliod.

...or do you really want a Arabian Night revival in your set creation?

So much for criticism. Now I should point out:

The artwork really is awesome and had me fight through the article only to see all of it!
I have been hesitant about how much I will like the set up until now.  This article really drew me in and I'm getting excited to know more about the set/block.  Well done WotC.

***************************************************************************************

From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

So let's see...

Heliod: Zeus*Apollon.
Thassa: Poseidon is obvious, but I wonder about the precepts of knowledge. This is arguably Apollon again (q.v. him becoming the god of oracles after he slew Python). Doesn't look like Athene's jurisdiction.
Erebos: Hades as he was actually understood by the ancient Hellenes. This alone means it's perfectly fine for him not to be hybridized with another theoi. The more we have of non-evil Hades, the better. (And if you ABSOLUTELY need an evil divinity of death, how about conscripting his Titan predecessor, Iapetos?)
Purphoros: Hephaistos, with Poseidon's temperamental side thrown in. Maybe a little of Dionysos as well?
Nylea: Artemis, easy. Odd that she approves of domesticated animals, but not agriculture and cities. Maybe just hounds and other hunting companions? It also looks like Demeter was divided between her and Karametra (Karametra's other aspect being Hestia).

I wouldn't have minded seeing more on Karametra, but it's obvious the crucial point here was to bring up the major divinity for each color.



Heliod is more Apollon than Zeus (although the justice bit is very "zeusian", Apollon was worshiped occasionally as a judging god that killed the wicked, so...), Thassa I think is a bit akin to titane goddesses, though with Poseidon and Athena thrown in and mixed oddly, and Nylea has many of Gaia's traits.
IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_mc52_picMain_en.jpg)IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/73821e61e013eadf56a8e4e2226d89a3.jpg?v=90000)
Well, it is a bit boring, sorry to say that.

I know, the color wheel is holy to WotC, but must we really repeat the known stuff about the personality of the colors in every block and every lore you craft? After 2 sentences I knew what the whole article was about.


Part of the point of the color pie being so rigid is that we can second guess things. If I say "god of the forge" you say "Red". If I say "looks after wild animals" you say "Green".

But if I say "sympathetic god" do you say "black"? What about the god of "dawn meals"?

Its also nice to see new applications for the ideologies behind the color pie. White being the color of marriages makes sense, but it isnt something I have ever considered before. 

Does every color really need a god?


Yes. There is a large portion of the player base that has a favourite color or only plays a certain color, etc, and if that color was the only color that didnt get a god, then those players would be upset. They would be saying "Why didnt we get a god?!". Why should you get to say that x% of players who would want a god shouldnt get one?

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
I don't know if I'm more underwhelmed by the flavor (completely cliche, if any flavor at all) or by seeing many react positively to this kind of stuff. Diversity of opinions and tastes is good and all, but I expected a different reaction from Magic players, to what is just a plain deification of the color pie, with obvious Greek cliches attached. I would rather buy an artbook than the actual cards, even in the case mechanics turn out to be awesome. Because playing with the cards I would be too frustrated thinking how those good mechanics could have been matched to original and deep flavor instead of this. And even with the art, all those which represent the gods and their weapons would remind me the abscence of creativity of the flavor so much, that I would close the artbook and throw it away. I'd have to dodge those illustrations to actually enjoy the rest...

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated.

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Im sorry I cant hear you over the sound of me giving Wizards all my money.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Im sorry I cant hear you over the sound of me giving Wizards all my money.

~ Tim

Enlighten me, what do you like exactly?

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated.



So you complain about not being one dimensional? What?
IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_mc52_picMain_en.jpg)IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/73821e61e013eadf56a8e4e2226d89a3.jpg?v=90000)
To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated.



So you complain about not being one dimensional? What?


No, I'm complaining about the opposite actually: since it's so multidimensional, why the heck should the god be a forge god?

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Im sorry I cant hear you over the sound of me giving Wizards all my money.

~ Tim

Enlighten me, what do you like exactly?


So far, pretty much everything. I totally <3 the black god, for a start. I love how bada$$ the green one is too. I liked the bit about the sparks from the red god's hammer blows could become living enchantments of their own. I like that the gods arent just one dimensional.

I grew up on films like Jason and the Argonauts, Sinbad, Clash of the Titans etc. This set is like my dream set (even more so than a Oz set). I cant imagine how Wizards could actually screw this up TBH. I am going into it with an open mind, no set-in-stone preconceptions, and I am going to enjoy the ride.

The only way they could anger me would be by not printing a mechanical owl. And really, I would forgive them anyway.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
~ Tim

Have you read the actual Greek mythology or even just wikipedia pages about the gods? I can assure you they're far *less* monodimensional than these.
I'm going with an open mind here and I still can't see how they can *not* screw it up after this! Well, don't want to ruin the fun anyway, glad to see that Wizards will apparently make money on this one too.

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Have you read the actual Greek mythology or even just wikipedia pages about the gods?


Nope. I am going all on childhood memories and nostalgia. I think that Wizards have even said that the point of this set is to give people what they think of when you say "Greek mythology" to them, rather than actually giving them (accurate) Greek mythology.

Now, for some learned people those two things are the same, and those people will be dissapointed. But for the rest of us, Wizards just found our "SQUEEEEEEEEEE" buttons (and when they push them, cash comes out).

~ Tim
p.s. I have not loved the idea of a set this much since Zendikar spoilers started.
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
@Lord Archaon: I think the point about Purphoros is that for once, the aspect of red brought to the forefront isn't rage, but artistry. There's still caprice, yes, but if you're going to have immense emotionalism (which red IS, even more than fire and seism), caprice is unavoidable. Purphoros's times of rage are effectively subordinated to his artistry. Think of them as his bouts of Mad Artist.

I think the reason we've seen rage as red's main quality recently is because of the emphasis on fire and lightning, themselves arguably stemming from the mechanical emphasis on rapid, direct damage. Those don't exactly scream artistry, since artistry usually presupposes subtlety. Mechanically, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more ways than usual to sculpt how creatures battle, in the fasion of Melee and Disharmony.


The only way they could anger me would be by not printing a mechanical owl. And really, I would forgive them anyway.

~ Tim



Now I totally want an Artifact Owl creature! That would just be awesome! Suggestions on what it should do, anyone?
 
So it seems that this will be an enchantment block. I'm curious to see how Wizards will do this. I love enchantment but I know they're not very popular with many players. It sounds like there will be living enchantments or enchantment creatures. If that's the case, they're more fragile to removal... so I'll be watching closely to see how they make such cards worth playing and how they will ease frustration for those people losing their enchantments to cheap removal. We've already seen enchantment/artifact removal spoiled in the set, but it was multi-color so slightly harder to play, but not by much...
Have you read the actual Greek mythology or even just wikipedia pages about the gods?


Nope. I am going all on childhood memories and nostalgia. I think that Wizards have even said that the point of this set is to give people what they think of when you say "Greek mythology" to them, rather than actually giving them (accurate) Greek mythology.

Now, for some learned people those two things are the same, and those people will be dissapointed. But for the rest of us, Wizards just found our "SQUEEEEEEEEEE" buttons (and when they push them, cash comes out).

~ Tim
p.s. I have not loved the idea of a set this much since Zendikar spoilers started.

Glad to see we have the love for Zendikar in common, maybe this is an omen I'll find something to like in Theros after all, although I know for sure it won't be the gods...

I knew the purpose, but it's not that which disappoints me. Or better, not the discrepancy between real Greek and fictional. I would have liked them far more different from the real ones, with only very superficial resemblances, but reinvented. Instead, I see Magic concepts crammed into Greek urnae, to stay in theme. 

@SkyknightXi: I love that aspect of Red, but then why not making an Artist God instead of a Forge God? That would have been much more fun to me. Instead of fire, destructive sonic harmonics could have been its favorite form of destroying stuff, or who knows. More imagination, that's what I would have liked. I'll really dig seeing new combat mechanics, but I doubt those will be actual pervasive mechanics. Maybe just one card or two.


Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Maybe because artistry is one of Purphoros domains? It's blatantly stated in his worship section, you know. Not to mention the fact that it's the drive behind his work.

Since when did artistry and craftmanship become incompatible?
IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_mc52_picMain_en.jpg)IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/73821e61e013eadf56a8e4e2226d89a3.jpg?v=90000)
Maybe because artistry is one of Purphoros domains? It's blatantly stated in his worship section, you know. Not to mention the fact that it's the drive behind his work.

Since when did artistry and craftmanship become incompatible?


Since the instrument of the god is a crude hammer and he enjoys lava and volcanos? Flavor is not only made by words.

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Since the instrument of the god is a crude hammer and he enjoys lava and volcanos? Flavor is not only made by words.



Did we look at the same picture, or are you just being sarcastic? That hammer didn't look so crude to me. In fact, it looked rather ornate.

Since the instrument of the god is a crude hammer and he enjoys lava and volcanos? Flavor is not only made by words.



Did we look at the same picture, or are you just being sarcastic? That hammer didn't look so crude to me. In fact, it looked rather ornate.


True, I said crude referring to the actualy crude nature of the hammer as a tool, a symbol which doesn't absolutely speak "fine arts" to me.


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I'm super excited that the red god was modelled on Hephaestus rather than Ares (or Vulcan and Mars, if you prefer).  The god of the forge doesn't get enough recognition in modern references to classical mythology.

Edit:  Also, Satyrs!  Yay!  Pranks for all!



Completely agree - Hephaestus is my favourite of the Olympians. 
True, I said crude referring to the actualy crude nature of the hammer as a tool, a symbol which doesn't absolutely speak "fine arts" to me.



Oh, I guess that makes sense. To play devil's advocate a bit, I'm a musician by trade and I can say that practicing feels a lot more like taking a hammer to your instrument/ego than what the pretty, exciting end result might imply. Like.... Beethoven going throuh 800 different takes on Ode to Joy before he settled on one he liked.

I personally like Porphorymorphisysus or whatever his name is. He shows a different side of Red we don't often get to see, the side that's more than "smash and burn" or dumb, voracious Goblins. Although, as dumb as they are, Goblins always have shown a very... odd... sense of ingenuity.
@LordArchaon

Now you're just knocking hammers.

I think that introducing the gods first is a mistake. This article probably would have been better implemented as part 2 or, in that I'm really not inclined to care about the deities of a place I don't know anything about. All this really serves to do is drive home the point that yes, we really are doing the Greco-Roman thing. Innistrad was mostly just horror trope but was fleshed out as a wrold right from the start.

I do like the way the Gods are tied to the colors, though. Both Red and Black needed that push towards depth. Now we just have to do green.

I'm not really excited for the implication that this set will feature creature enchantments. I really hopre that this is not the case, or that it is implemented in a better fashion than "1G: This enchantment becomes a 2/2 creature". Especially since enchantments don't interact very well with temporary creatures. Maybe if we're lucky we get Licids back? You could have things like Pacifism Licid, Stab Wound Licid, Rancor Licid, etc. I hope they just went with Licids.
I seem to remember the rules people not being fond of licids. Though maybe that's just because of Dominating Licid.
I don't think Licids are bad... as long as they don't hop around at instant speed, especially after blocking.
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To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs?

A god of passion and creativity being linked to both the arts and the crafts makes perfect sense.

No, I'm complaining about the opposite actually: since it's so multidimensional, why the heck should the god be a forge god?

Because a god based on Hephaestus is a far better match for Magic's needs than any other option.

Apollo may have been the actual god of music, but you can't base a red god on Apollo because Apollo is way too closely associated with light and the sun, both of which need to be associated with the white god. Athena may have been the actual goddess of the arts and crafts, but her primary association these days is wisdom, civilization, and perhaps strategy, which again should belong to other colors' gods. But Hephaestus as the god of the forge is instantly recognizable to anyone and popularly associated with all of the most important physical aspects of red--fire, stone, mountains, volcanoes, and so on and so forth.

You could make a red god based on Apollo or Athena, but you'd be fighting people's mental preconceptions in doing so. Basing the red god on Hephaestus instead makes those preconceptions work for you and provides instant resonance. Why wouldn't you make the red god the god of the forge?

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