8/12/2013 MM: "Un-Seen"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.

The art for Bob from Accounting is showing the art for what I presume is a card called Blackjack. (Edit: Now fixed)

The art for Poodle Boy is missing the artist credit (Daniel Gelon). (Edit: Now fixed)
Phil Foglio art, too risque?  Shocking!

Best laugh for me was for Portal Elf, though of course I remember all the references.  And a lot of these ring a bell as stuff Mark has mentioned before, including a Bob from Accounting card mention, but seeing it is new and I liked the chosen ability.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

Nice artwork!  Surprised WotC was able to clear the rights to show it off...

When I started work on Unhinged, a member of the brand team sat me down and asked that I not do anything that forced the opponent to act silly. I could make cards where players could opt into being silly but I wasn't supposed to force silliness upon players who might not want to be silly.



That person knew what was up.  Humor is best when it just naturally flows along with funny artwork & cards; cards that try to hard to be some kind of Truth-or-Dare "now, do something humiliating!" are very easy to misfire.  The card should have been rephrased to have the player do the Teapot dance and get some bonus.

On that note, I'd argue that Red-Hot Hottie could probably have used the "at the top of your lungs" addition stricken.  Screaming is funny, it's fine to just say screams.  There's actually a story behind this one: at the Unhinged prerelease - and yes, a semi-tournament + comedy cards is already an awkward mixture - I had an opponent who wanted to be strict on the "at the top of your lungs" bit or else lose the creature.  At the crowded, busy tournament with lots of other people who'd be disrupted, larayngitis-inducing screams.  I basically ignored him and just gave good old fashioned normal screams, but I could see that becoming an issue (since, let's face it, refusing to scream is not something that's going to happen in a realistic game.)

Also, with years of experience, I wish I had made Heads Up great and Tailspin okay so that either way you got a bonus but one was a bigger bonus.



That'd kill the flavor, though!  And potentially the usage as well if the cost went up by 2 mana.  If I'm in a Tailspin I shouldn't get a bonus!  ...I do agree that the card reads a bit weak as is, even if we assume some potential Krark's Thumb / Goblin Bookie nonsense.  Maybe make Tailspin only -2/-0?  Or make it not flip automatically, but rather have a mana cost to flip, and use the last paid mana cost?  (So your opponent can fight you with more mana to try and flip out of Heads-up, and you can do the same to try to flip out of Tailspin.)   Pure theorycraft of course since this is an ancient dead card, but my 2 cents.
Having played with Portal cards quite a lot back in the day, Portal Elf was by far my favourite card of the bunch!

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
The Serra Angel full art is pretty neat to see
The Serra Angel full art is pretty neat to see

That one, strictly speaking, is not new.

Also, what happened to the voting card?
blah blah metal lyrics
1) I miss Phil Foglio doing Magic art.

2) I'd love a full-frame Serra Angel artwork, either "Que" or the Greg Horn one.

3) I'd love to see the poison veggies as cards, especially Mad Beatdown as I;m nicknamed Beatdown Bedford.

4) Hot Picks would be great artwork for the Grand Prix Louisville playmat

5) I wouldn't be surprised if one day we eventually get a poison dual land.
Those commercials were hilarious -- when did they air?  Also, you promised a vote card and failed to deliver.
Those commercials were hilarious -- when did they air?  Also, you promised a vote card and failed to deliver.



I agree. There should obviously be a follow-up article for Unhinged 2 to make up for this shame.
(no seriously, this was a great article and I'd like to see more)
I'd love to see more of what was once planned for Unglued 2. This was awesome.
Very interesting and fun to see these clips from non-history. I think it's clear though that Unhinged was a much better set that Unglued 2 would have been. It's a pity to lose awesome things like Shameless Plug, but it looks like 2 would have had a lot of the same problems as 1. Unhinged was pretty good fun apart from the Gotcha mechanic.
I would have liked to see the Multiverse comments. If Multiverse was a thing back then.
MORE PLEASE!

Unglued 2 looks like it would have been awesome.  Also it's nice to get a look at some of the cards to go with the names from the hidden message from Unhinged.

Did anyone catch all the vegetables?  I found the ones in Aerobics Instructor, Some Fat Pants, Botulism (obvious), Gangrene Pepper (obvious), Mad Beetdown (obvious), Portal Elf, and Dead Bunny Isle.
The poison land is great, I'd love to see those in the next un-set, I'd totally play those in black borderland, same with Bantam of the Opera and Treehouse of Dr Moreau. Seriously, I don't see why you can't put some of these in some kind of special product like the duel decks so that they can be legal in other formats. I kinda get annoyed that the Un sets have seemingly two different things going on, cards like the teapot song card or the denimwalk ability ones, and then ones like that poison dual that are a little odd, but still perfectly doable in black border. 

And Maro, on your tumblr not long ago, you asked what kind of non-silver bordered things we'd like to see in the next un-set, and that full art Serra Angel is now at the top of the list. That is just incredible. That seriously needs to go into a special product or something ASAP. 
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
The poison land is great, I'd love to see those in the next un-set, I'd totally play those in black borderland, same with Bantam of the Opera and Treehouse of Dr Moreau. Seriously, I don't see why you can't put some of these in some kind of special product like the duel decks so that they can be legal in other formats. I kinda get annoyed that the Un sets have seemingly two different things going on, cards like the teapot song card or the denimwalk ability ones, and then ones like that poison dual that are a little odd, but still perfectly doable in black border. 

And Maro, on your tumblr not long ago, you asked what kind of non-silver bordered things we'd like to see in the next un-set, and that full art Serra Angel is now at the top of the list. That is just incredible. That seriously needs to go into a special product or something ASAP. 


I wouldn't be suprised to see poisonlands the next time we see Phyrexians, especially if we see infect again.
Dead Bunny Isle could be updated and printed to fit a certain card need.

Dead Bunny Tundra

Land - Plains Island

(T: Add W or U to your mana pool)

When Dead Bunny Tundra is tapped for mana, you gain a poison counter.
Dead Bunny Isle could be updated and printed to fit a certain card need.

Dead Bunny Tundra

Land - Plains Island

(T: Add W or U to your mana pool)

When Dead Bunny Tundra is tapped for mana, you gain a poison counter.



Does that skate the edge of functional reprint? And do the poison counters matter if you're going for a T5 or less kill? 
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
I'm a little confused about the commentary on Heads Up/Tailspin. In a normal set, I understand not making a card that can be extremely detrimental to the person that plays it. In an Un Set, is it really that important for something to be good/reliable? I thought the point was to be ridiculous.

Also, did Bob from Accounting really have to be removed? By the time Unhinged came out, the commercial may have been gone, but I still think people could appreciate the absurdity of an accountant in the middle of a Magic game. His mechanic relied on other dice cards, but there was no reason to not rework him.

This was a really cool article though. It's not often a company lets you see something that they did not finish and decided not to release.
Would love a new UN set.  Between rounds at FNM the discussion comes up of great new "UN" cards to make.
One of our favorites is "Anything Imaginable".  Sorcery where you shuffle your deck, guess the top card and put onto battlefield for free or exile if wrong. 
The pair card is "Out of thin air".  Sorcery.  You may play a card from exile for X where X is it's converted mana cost.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Also, did Bob from Accounting really have to be removed? By the time Unhinged came out, the commercial may have been gone, but I still think people could appreciate the absurdity of an accountant in the middle of a Magic game. His mechanic relied on other dice cards, but there was no reason to not rework him.



I feel the same way with Poodleboy.  Besides, it would work great with flickering effects.

The Un-card I'd make would be called The Ultimate Nightmare of Mark Rosewater.  It would be a green Lightning Bolt that depicted a Killer Banana shooting out bees.
Little Teapot? ... Scoop. Go to game two. I love how remorseful MaRo is about feeling like he didn't get some of these cards right when they never saw print. Lol :-)
Teapot is totally fair. They don't HAVE to act silly.
Dead Bunny Isle could be updated and printed to fit a certain card need.

Dead Bunny Tundra

Land - Plains Island

(T: Add W or U to your mana pool)

When Dead Bunny Tundra is tapped for mana, you gain a poison counter.



Does that skate the edge of functional reprint? And do the poison counters matter if you're going for a T5 or less kill? 



It's not as functional a reprint as making a Tundra with the Snow supertype.  But yes, legal would probably want to be involved in that decision.

The card is strictly worse than Tundra, and wouldn't work in a deck like High Tide.  But yes, it would be not much of a drawback.

Similarly, you could make a legendary Tundra (rumored to be possible for Theros block) or an Adarkar Wastes with basic land types.
I made a few Un-cards back when that was the challenge in the first Great Designer Search.

I like this one the best:

U.S. Patent 5,662,332

Sorcery

Choose a card you own, from a collectible trading card game other than Magic, from outside the game.  Choose a color present on that card, and choose X, where X is a number on that card.  You lose X life.  The chosen card enters the battlefield as an X/X creature token of the chosen color.

Urza thought Phyrexia possessed great power, until the mysterious patent attorney granted him power over infinite universes.
I love to see articles like this, its nice to see new things about the history of magic. Although its a good thing some of these didnt make print.

Aerobics Instructor,  kinda funny seems like a solid design, but the art doesnt seem all that good compared to some of his other work.


Some Fat Pants, seems like a miss to me. I have been playing for a long time and never heard the term fat pants used in magic.


Que Serra Serra, funny and i like making players have to debate things, really like the art. i dont understand the name.


Botulism, this one is ok, should be green not blue.

Little Teapot, this one is a huge miss. the art may be a little funny but trying to make players do something stupid like this is just wrong. many players are adults and dont want to act like 5 year olds.

Time Walk on the Wild Side, miss, he says chaos level is high, i say its confusing and many players especially the oppenents of the one playing the card may find it hard to remember exactly what happened in a turn to reset it (especially after a large attack phase)

Bantam of the Opera, bantam means chicken? i may just be dumb but a play on words with words you have to look up in the dictionary seems like a bad idea to me.

Gangrene Pepper, feels like a yugioh card

Skeletons in the Closet, seems like a miss cause i dont see how the name connects to the card. would have been much better as a top down design.

Heads Up/Tails Spin, this one seems ok, neat idea for its time dont like the name though.

Bob from Accounting, this one is kinda funny and good design

Hot Picks, another huge miss for me, not that it is predictable or too chaotic, its that players dont want cards that they can only use once. how many players actually tore up blacker lotus chaos confetti or wrote on letter bomb?

Mad Beetdown, funnier than the pepper

Portal Elf , funny and i get a lot of the references, the elf is real ugly though

Poodleboy, hidously ugly, it may give me nightmares. love the design though, would like to see it used in black boarder mabe something like this:
Dragon bait    2R
creature- goblin
when dragon bait comes into play flip a coin,
if you win the flip sacrifice dragon bait and
search your library for a creature with cmc
5 or less and put it into play.
0/1         

Treehouse of Dr. Moreau, i hate squirrels, they seem to have ruined the power balance of creatures (flavor wise) when they came out. thinking a little squirrel can kill a pack of goblins mons's goblin raiders or a fully armored knight Kjeldoran Warrior makes me mad.

Shameless Plug, i used to be an inquest reader

Dead Bunny Isle, funny, but way too powerful. if printed in black boarder would be a vintage staple (aka tundra 4-8) 1 poison counter is almost no drawback.





   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  
Ahhhh the old Magic Commericals.  Those take me back...

And I want Bantam of the Opera.  Frown 
So, to troll a little bit here are my 10 favorite and 10 least favorite un cards in no particular order,

Favorites
Ashnod's Coupon this card would go in any deck, just wish it didnt have the eratta.

evil presents giving oppenents crappy creatures is awsome.

Censorship love the text

Cheatyface sneaking him into play is a challenge but funny everytime

Mox Lotus infinite mana and a parody of a mox and black lotus, hard to beat.

Giant Fan moving counters around, i wish this could be black boardered.

Miss Demeanor love the art, and having to complement your opponent adds lots of flavor.

Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug just love the super haste.

Staying Power soooo much potential.

save life the mana pool thing makes me laugh.

Least favorite

Stop That dont see how flicking cards escalates to exploding someones head with cards. Also never really had a problem with people flicking cards

Bursting Beebles did not like the artist matters theme, there are too many different artists.

Emcee dont want to do it

Land Aid '04 a bit of a stretch

Persecute Artist card based on an inside joke

Goblin Mime looks like he's taking a dump

Shoe Tree messes up the board and you cant see the card when used.

Fascist Art Director another artist based card that seems like an inside joke

Knight of the Hokey Pokey i dont want to hokey pokey, i am not 5

Loose Lips hard to keep track of 
Fun article, I'd love to see more.  

I think I would have loved the vile vegitible theme, although the poison was kind of overkill.

Casual Magic player since 2003 (Onslaught Block). 60% Johnny, 40% Timmy. Want a free, graphics-based, collection database to inventory your cards? I made one! Feedback welcome. Program runs offline, includes powerful search options, art, Oracle text, data import/export, and a rigorously updated list of every card ever printed. Version 5.13 (Theros) now available!

So. Green needs an iconic creature type, eh? How about wurms!

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Stop That dont see how flicking cards escalates to exploding someones head with cards. Also never really had a problem with people flicking cards Some people do though, and if nothing else it's a one black instant discard with recursion.

Bursting Beebles did not like the artist matters theme, there are too many different artists. Neither did I, but it was a minor theme because it was one of the only -matters themes they could never do.

Emcee dont want to do it Not wanting to use the ability doesn't make it a bad card. Un cards were about fun, and it's fun to be a little silly at times.

Land Aid '04 a bit of a stretch I don't even know what your saying here, but if it's that you don't want to sing, see above.

Persecute Artist card based on an inside joke But quite a few are. I found it funny even before I knew about the story behind it.

Goblin Mime looks like he's taking a dump He's stuck in a box. It's, like, the go to mime thing.

Shoe Tree messes up the board and you cant see the card when used. I didn't like shoe tree, but that's because it's actually pretty bad as a card...

Fascist Art Director another artist based card that seems like an inside joke I'm pretty sure he just reserves the right to hate art by certain people, hence "fascist".

Knight of the Hokey Pokey i dont want to hokey pokey, i am not 5 Again, not wanting to follow the cards rules doesn't make it bad.

Loose Lips hard to keep track of That's half the point, the other being it can force your opponent to say specific words for gotcha.



So yeah, Shoe Tree sucks...

Stop That dont see how flicking cards escalates to exploding someones head with cards. Also never really had a problem with people flicking cards Some people do though, and if nothing else it's a one black instant discard with recursion.

Bursting Beebles did not like the artist matters theme, there are too many different artists. Neither did I, but it was a minor theme because it was one of the only -matters themes they could never do.

Emcee dont want to do it Not wanting to use the ability doesn't make it a bad card. Un cards were about fun, and it's fun to be a little silly at times.

Land Aid '04 a bit of a stretch I don't even know what your saying here, but if it's that you don't want to sing, see above.

Persecute Artist card based on an inside joke But quite a few are. I found it funny even before I knew about the story behind it.

Goblin Mime looks like he's taking a dump He's stuck in a box. It's, like, the go to mime thing.

Shoe Tree messes up the board and you cant see the card when used. I didn't like shoe tree, but that's because it's actually pretty bad as a card...

Fascist Art Director another artist based card that seems like an inside joke I'm pretty sure he just reserves the right to hate art by certain people, hence "fascist".

Knight of the Hokey Pokey i dont want to hokey pokey, i am not 5 Again, not wanting to follow the cards rules doesn't make it bad.

Loose Lips hard to keep track of That's half the point, the other being it can force your opponent to say specific words for gotcha.



So yeah, Shoe Tree sucks...


You kinda missed my point, it wasnt a list of bad cards, it was a list of cards I don't like and why i don't like them.
emcee is a 0/1 for 3 if you dont use its ability, and land aid seemed like they were trying too hard to make a joke out of a land search card (just an opinion),facist art director flavor text is refering to magic's art director hence inside joke, and goblin mime yes he's stuck in a box but at first glance looks like he's taking a dump into his hat. Not wanting to follow the rules of a card may not make it a bad card, but make it an unfun card.

Again these are just cards I do and dont like has nothing to do with their power levels or if they are good cards or not (I like ashnods coupon and its useless game wise). These are just my opinions. If you disagree feel free to post your own list of likes and dislikes.
Bleah.  What do you get when you combine a bunch of cards that play badly with another bunch of cards that appeal to the sort of people who think funniness is the same thing as hysteria?  Unglued 2, apparently.  Every single one of those cards was one where my first thought was "I'm so glad they didn't actually print that" for one reason or another.

Maro makes (slightly) more subtle, but very similar, design errors in very recent black-border land, too.  Among many, many others, Goblin Test Pilot makes a great example: let's make a funny card!  Okay, here's a card that is complete bullcrap on every level!  Hilarious, right?  Because I can't do anything without being incredibly heavy-handed about it, and I happen to believe that unplayable drek that shouts at players to look and see how funny it is, is funny.  Maybe next we can make a card called Goblin Pie-Face that's funny that's a clown that's funny because it hits itself in the face with pies which is funny and the ability could be "T: Oogity Boogity!  Blarfle garfle wok wok!  Also constructs."  Don't forget it'll play well with our audience since half the people who play Magic are 12-15 year-old boys, and that will justify every decision I make to turn the card into complete bullcrap on every level.
Inside jokes about Magic in a set that's a self-parody of Magic? Impossible!

Que Serra Serra is a reference to the song Que Sera, Sera, BTW. It's actually a rather clever joke, IMO.
Just because Goblin Test Pilot isn't powerful, doesn't mean it's not fun. I taught some new players magic and dragons maze was the first set that came out after I started. I had a box and asked them if they wanted to draft and every time a test pilot was drawn the games became much more fun. In 1 on 1 games I'd never play it, but cards with random chance have a neiche in multiplayer games and they belong there. I feel Un cards are similar. 1 on 1 Un games aren't the most fun either, but multiple players makes the list of things to keep track of larger and makes the cards that require you to keep track of things more interesting. If you look at un cards, a large portion of them are stickly worse than their black bordered cousins.
I made a few Un-cards back when that was the challenge in the first Great Designer Search.

I like this one the best:

U.S. Patent 5,662,332

Sorcery

Choose a card you own, from a collectible trading card game other than Magic, from outside the game.  Choose a color present on that card, and choose X, where X is a number on that card.  You lose X life.  The chosen card enters the battlefield as an X/X creature token of the chosen color.

Urza thought Phyrexia possessed great power, until the mysterious patent attorney granted him power over infinite universes.



That would be fantastic, though WOTC is loathe to admit the existence of other card games (unless it's to steal the idea of mythic rares). 
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013

For those who weren't aware, Mark has spoken about the poison land cycle before.  Here in 2010


What you might not know (or know if you read Aaron Forsythe's articles) is that I put a third poison card in the design:

Poisoned City
Land
T, Receive a poison counter: Add W or U to your mana pool.

This card was killed at the time in development for being too strong in a vacuum. I tried putting the cycle in Scars but development made it clear to me that the full cycle wasn't going to fare any better. In any environment where poison wasn't dominant, these cards were almost as good as Alpha dual lands and that was better than development feels dual lands are supposed to be.


and here is Aaron Forsythe talking about it in 2007


Poisoned City
Land
T, Receive a poison counter: Add W or U to your mana pool.

That land is a lot more interesting in the context of the theoretical block from which it comes, a block where poison can be used both as an offensive weapon and as a resource. But outside of that block, it's just really good. There aren't any playable poison cards that may make you shy away from tapping this any fewer than nine times in a game.


So those of you saying you'd like it?  They know.  It was killed for being overpowered.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

I LOVE BOB!

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.


Favorites
Ashnod's Coupon this card would go in any deck, just wish it didnt have the eratta.

Giant Fan moving counters around, i wish this could be black boardered.


Both of these are possible.
R&D's secret lair (the lik works, the card image doesn't show up because of a glitch with gatherer.
bioshift
Bioshift only moves +1/+1 counters, but Fate Transfer or Leech Bonder will do what you want. (Any permanent can be animated if necessary.) Or from back in the day, Power Conduit.