3/21/2008 LD: "Reincarnation"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Latest Developments, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Developing "fixed" versions of old (broken) cards, perhaps?

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Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Developing "fixed" versions of old (broken) cards, perhaps?

Or perhaps a teaser regarding the new Dark-shifted LOR legends?

i.e. The new wort art we have seen in the Future Spec. forum.
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I know of no such thing. What's seen in FSS, stays in FSS.

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Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I kinda knew Neorok SPy wasa reincarnation, but I never really thought about Brown Ouphe being printed before in Ice Age. That one totally slipped by me. Then again, I don't think I ever saw BO played way back then.
I've worked a lot with the "functionally equivalent" type comparisons, so I was aware that it was a functional reprint. However, I was somewhat surprised to find out that Arrest and Dragon Blood were (direct) reprints. This would have been trivial to find out, of course, but I'd just seen the new art so much more often, and I wasn't involved in Magic when the originals for those were released.

One thing still puzzles me, though. Atog and Chromatic Sphere were also reprinted in Mirrodin. Why weren't they mentioned in the article? Also, Lumengrid Warden is a functional reprint of Straw Soldiers/Talas Merchant.
One thing still puzzles me, though. Atog and Chromatic Sphere were also reprinted in Mirrodin. Why weren't they mentioned in the article? Also, Lumengrid Warden is a functional reprint of Straw Soldiers/Talas Merchant.

He likely forgot about them.

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Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

He also forgot about much more famous cards than that when he claimed Ornithopter was the first zero-cost card.

Also, Elvish Warrior is not an old card remodelled with a new creature type. It is simply a straight reprint, with not even the name changed. (EDIT: I see that it wasn't originally a Warrior, which might be what he meant; it got updated in one of the big creature type sweeps, I guess.)
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
As one of the very first "comes into play" creatures, Uktabi Orangutan was famous for busting Nevinyrral's Disks and Cursed Scrolls.

I... I don't think that's quite how Uktabi Orangutan became famous. ;)

Props for finding Una Fricker to illustrate Uktabi Kong, though. Just noticed that now.
One thing still puzzles me, though. Atog and Chromatic Sphere were also reprinted in Mirrodin. Why weren't they mentioned in the article? Also, Lumengrid Warden is a functional reprint of Straw Soldiers/Talas Merchant.

I think the reasons for reprinting Atog were made evident in the Mirrodin version's flavor text.
There should be more reprints in expert sets. That way we won't end up with dozens of variants on Giant Growth and Shock.
There should be more reprints in expert sets. That way we won't end up with dozens of variants on Giant Growth and Shock.

So you'd rather have dozens of reprints of Giant Growth and Shock?
This humble whirring fellow is another of Magic's most famous artifacts as the first card that cost zero mana to play, breaking the fundamental rules of mana-for-effect.

Say what? The first card to cost zero mana? [CARD]Black Lotus[/CARD] would like a word with you. I'm guessing you meant the first creature to cost zero mana.

Also, this article focuses a lot on Mirrodin. Most of these points have been made a long time ago. I didn't find anything new in this article.
Say what? The first card to cost zero mana? [CARD]Black Lotus[/CARD] would like a word with you. I'm guessing you meant the first creature to cost zero mana.

For sure. A couple years ago the Dev team said they'd be paying a bit more attention to and trying to service the Eternal formats, including Vintage, than they had in the past. Oversights like this make me wonder if Vintage or Legacy ever even cross their minds. How could you forget about the planeswalker Mox and his pretty flower?

-Thay
I was pretty disappointed with this article. It seems very irrelavent to put out an article about reprints in Mirrodin 4+ years after the set was printed. If this article came out in 2003, It'd be a great insight, but now it's just common knowledge. come on Devin, thats two misses in a row.
I was pretty disappointed with this article. It seems very irrelavent to put out an article about reprints in Mirrodin 4+ years after the set was printed. If this article came out in 2003, It'd be a great insight, but now it's just common knowledge. come on Devin, thats two misses in a row.

Unless, you know, we end up with some reprints in Shadowmoor. Lorwyn and Morningtide had plenty of them.
Unless, you know, we end up with some reprints in Shadowmoor. Lorwyn and Morningtide had plenty of them.

I don't think we need an article about the purpose of reprints when their function is so blatantly obvious, though. If it works, then it's better to have a chance for players to get a card with a new illustration and/or frame; there's no need to justify it further. Plus, there's a chance to over-saturate an archetype with relevant cards...
Unless, you know, we end up with some reprints in Shadowmoor. Lorwyn and Morningtide had plenty of them.

plenty =/= 3 (thats if you count Boldwyr Intimidator, as it was futureshifted)



sure, maybe Shadowmoor will have a bunch of reprints in it, but that doesn't magically made a bland incomplete article about reprints from a four year old set relevant right now. Just saying what I'm thinking here.
So you'd rather have dozens of reprints of Giant Growth and Shock?

It would slightly reduce the cost for constructed play, since you could use your older cards. It also reduces the potential for abuse in Extended/Legacy where people essentially run eight or more copies of the same card (Fyndhorn Elves anyone?) This also reduces WOTC's sales, so that's one reason for them to do functional reprints. Somewhat reminds me of when Homer traded all his cash for Itchy & Scratcy Bucks, and then none of the shops would take them.


I agree this article was kind of bland, unless it's a stealth Shadowmoor preview that will make more sense in the coming weeks (ie, there's a lot of reprints in the set).
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Yes, I felt that this column spent a lot time saying, "In a block in which half the cards are artifacts, old cards that refer to artifacts play much differently."
plenty =/= 3 (thats if you count Boldwyr Intimidator, as it was futureshifted)

Direct reprints:
Boldwyr Intimidator
Elvish Warrior
Fertile Ground

Reprints except creature type:
Avian Changeling (was Wild Griffin)
Fencer Clique (was Wayward Soul)
Game-Trail Changeling (was Fangren Hunter)
Hornet Harasser (was Disease Carriers)
Woodland Changeling (was Grizzly Bears, among others)

Then there's the Shock/Tarfire thing.

I do agree, that it's less than some other sets had (Mirrodin's count is really exceptionally high), but they certainly didn't neglect the reprints entirely.
Some cards are destined to never meet reincarnation, nor Nirvana. These cards are "dead men walking" and are restricted or banned in Eternal formats, but are perfectly fine in Extended.

Mind's Desire is one such card. It floats around in its middle-aged Extended years, but it always feels depressed knowing it will die forever and it's deck archetype will never see an Extended-to-Legacy conversion. He knows he will be played as a one-of in a few Vintage decks, but it's just not the same.

When his death sentence was scheduled to occur this October, he prepared for the worst. However, Wizards said "you can live another year, Mind's Desire. However, in return we shall deny you the means to ever touch the Extended metagame again." And with that Mind's Desire lost the Invasion sac-lands, Cabal Ritual, Burning Wish, and everything else that made him viable.

I cry for Mind's Desire, and his impending doom.

EDIT: Could this article have been about how Mirrodin was a chance for designers to bring all these old cards back in an artifact heavy environment and change how they play almost entirely (see Terror, Shatter) or could this have been a soft confession that the Mirrodin design team was lazy? :x
I was pretty disappointed with this article. It seems very irrelavent to put out an article about reprints in Mirrodin 4+ years after the set was printed. If this article came out in 2003, It'd be a great insight, but now it's just common knowledge. come on Devin, thats two misses in a row.

An interesting topic is an interesting topic, whether it's about the latest set or not. And frankly, I'd much rather read about Mirrodin than Morningtide. (Not to deny that there are some problems with this article, but they're not the ones you bring up here.)
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
I thought it was ok, if a bit easy-to-write. It doesn't hurt to have the specific reprint justifications broken up like that. (Although yes, they have repeatedly said "OMG look how good Shatter is!" before.)

Like many of you, I take it as an implication of Shadowmoor. Enchantment block perhaps?

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I liked this article a lot. Yes, it was about a comparatively old set, but I feel Mirrodin was used simply because it was a good, simple situation for demonstrating the changing values of cards when they are reprinted.
Rules Advisor. Used to play a lot of old Extended tournaments, now I just play prereleases and casual kitchen-table games with friends. My regular decks, many of which have been evolving for years: Contested Cliffs Beasts Coastal Piracy Hana Kami Spirit recycling Rout Multiplayer control Seizan, Perverter of Truth Commander
I was hoping to see a few sentences devoted to the reasons for doing a straight reprint, versus a retitled reprint.
I caught a lot of the reprints in Mirrodin, but until now I had no idea that Cathodion and Dragon Blood were reprints. They seemed like such good fits in that block (i.e. a Su-Chi homage and a Modular creature pumper), that I never questioned them.

Re: Mind's Desire. It's a one-of in Vintage because it's restricted, because it's crazy good. That's hardly a sign of it being a dead card. I think we may never see an Vintage format that doesn't have a place for Mind's Desire.
Enchantment block perhaps?

Idllyic Tutor. Intriguing theory.
This humble whirring fellow is another of Magic's most famous artifacts as the first card that cost zero mana to play, breaking the fundamental rules of mana-for-effect. The designers also knew he'd be good with two of our major block themes: both Equipment and affinity for artifacts. Unfortunately, the department did not foresee just how good this little 0/2 would be with Equipment and the overpowered affinity for artifacts, and the whole affinity mechanic proceeded to annoy people in Standard, Block Constructed, and Extended for years. (Oops.)

Wait, what?
I was a little confounded by the article, just because I expected them to mention Graceful Reprieve.
I'd have to say that while this article was interesting in how it showed the cards with their reprinted selves. It is definitely lacking and feels like Devin ran out of time for this article.

Anyway, I agree that I would definitely like to see a reason for a renamed card reprint vs. a straight reprint. I'm guessing the answer would be "because we wanted the same card with different flavor." Which I, as a Vorthos, can appreciate.

I would also like to see more reprints of some old classics than whacky variants because the variants are always strictly better than the original, and obsolete the original entirely. I dislike having many of my cards obsoleted every set. Their only justification seems to be that the new version is weak to different cards and better in other areas because of the change, but usually the advantage they gain is tremendous while they're only weak to a few cards specific to that set. Hardly a weakness at all.
While the variants do often end up strictly better than the original, I think they're doing a rather good job of either making it worse in some respect (e.g. a cost of 1CC instead of 2C) or making it strictly better than a card that was already obsoleted long ago (a 2/2 with an ability for no longer obsoleted anything). Many old cards still don't have a strictly better version printed, regardless of the many variants they've had.
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