Making this place great again

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Zardnaar wrote:
I can actually remember the forums being a great place. We used to have game authors posting along with novel authors as well.
You know what Zardnaar makes a good point. This place use to be great. Then the novel authors were driven off by people who didn't like their books hurling abuse at them. Then the game designers were driven off under similar treatment. We've had community developers come and try to clean this place up and stop the constant fighting and bickering. They've also left after failing.


I'm not interested in pointing fingers and blaming people. I've got my fair share of questionable posts. I admit these posts (some as recent as today) have definitely helped bring the community down regardless of my intentions.


This thread is about people pledging to work to make these forums a better place.


So I pledge to stop with the negative attacks against people and their play styles. I pledge to stop responding to such posts with anything except a polite request for them to stop edition warring or trolling.


To also help remind myself and others why I enjoy D&D if I post a negative comment about an edition or play style I'll post a genuinely positive comment about it as well. Too often we nitpick the things we love to death that it can be difficult to remember there's a lot about this game we enjoy. People can also feel that you don't value their contributions to the community or feel that their style of playing is valid for them and their friends.


If people find me not doing the above I ask you to please remind me that I said I would and feel free to even link to this post.


Is anyone else willing to try to work together and help make this place great again?


Do people have any suggestions on how we can achieve this goal?

That's a very admirable pledge.

 

If we all remember that just because "you" don't like it and it "didn't feel right" that doesn't mean "nobody should like it" or that "it isn't D&D" and "anyone who does is scum" this place would be a lot better.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There is a nice little self created divide here. Shame there can't be more acceptance instead. I feel that is where the future of the game should be.

All this vitriol, pushing away, retroactive retaliation, and preemptive striking needs to stop.

I keep trying but some won't let things go. Will you?

 

Because you like something, it does not mean it is good. Because you dislike something, it does not mean it is bad. Because it is your opinion, it does not make it everyone's opinion. Because it is your opinion, it does not make it truth. Because it is your opinion, it does not make it the general consensus. Whatever side you want to take, at least remember these things.

Some of us are game authors, first let me say.

 

The best way to improve the forums as you say is to follow the code of conduct.  It basically says it all, including "be polite and courteous", etc.  If some people don't want to do that, they should be reported and their doing it first shouldn't convince anyone else to follow suit.  There was a terrible exchange tonight between two posters, which ended with one calling the other "crazy and maybe evil".  You shouldn't try to stop it, because you can't.  It's up to the moderators.

 

I can advise you to try to post "just what you want", though.  Stay positive, and avoid arguments.  Many threads are greatly appreciated by the community here, and everyone should just try to contribute something they like.

Sir Antoine wrote:
If some people don't want to do that, they should be reported and their doing it first shouldn't convince anyone else to follow suit.
Deleted posts have done little over the past 6+ years. Even bans are ineffective with  community this size and such a small pool of Orcs.

 

It takes a community to build something worthwhile.

JohnLynch wrote:

 

Sir Antoine wrote:
If some people don't want to do that, they should be reported and their doing it first shouldn't convince anyone else to follow suit.

Deleted posts have done little over the past 6+ years. Even bans are ineffective with  community this size and such a small pool of Orcs.

 

It takes a community to build something worthwhile.

 

I am just trying to protect you from a lot of heartache.  You can't control what others do.  You have to let it go or it will ruin your own enjoyment of the forums.

 

The best thing we can do is try to make friends here, to find people who like what we do.  This is all owned by WotC.  It's their baby.  We're supposed to be running our own games, and using the forums to connect with others.  So if you're having a big discussion with someone and it starts getting tense, stop it before it gets ugly.  No one benefits after it gets ugly, whether it be by name calling, or taking apart another person's words and opinions to make them seem wrong.

I whole heartedly agree.   I have, and will always try my best to be kind and constructive.   The Golden Rule should still apply even on these boards.   "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you."  

 

It is ok to disagree.   Just disagree with kindness.    Sometimes, because it is difficult to detect tone in writing, posts become more inflamatory than intended.   When that happens, we should apologize and move on.  

 

I love the bumper sticker I've been seeing around my hometown.   It says "Wag more, Bark less."   That helps too (although I'm not implying that we are all dogs.  lol).

A Brave Knight of WTF - "Wielder of the Sword of Balance"

 

Rhenny's Blog:  http://community.wizards.com/user/1497701/blog

 

 

I'm all for this. Make the forums great. I'm still here after a few years but came from the Starwars forum when it was alive. The Starwars forum had a few clear elements, which the DnD forum doesn't have yet. Respect for each other and openly sharing resources or material people created for their adventures or game. We were all working together to be friends and help each other. I was a big part of helping to create starwars saga resources and engaging in group projects. I'd be scared to try that in this forum.

Prom wrote:

I'm all for this. Make the forums great. I'm still here after a few years but came from the Starwars forum when it was alive. The Starwars forum had a few clear elements, which the DnD forum doesn't have yet. Respect for each other and openly sharing resources or material people created for their adventures or game. We were all working together to be friends and help each other. I was a big part of helping to create starwars saga resources and engaging in group projects. I'd be scared to try that in this forum.

 

Your fears are justified.  The forums may be ruined for that already.  Be careful not to post something you would like to have intellectual property rights to, though, because WotC owns everything posted.

 

As for their moderators, they often unpublish threads or lock threads.  These are usually mistakes, because they could be removing posts, sending warnings to individuals, and even banning individuals and those means should be much more effective while less disruptive to everyone else.  I can't help but feel we're all be "used" when WotC unpublishes things or locks things.  If we had the right to express ourselves in a community, that wouldn't happen.

The belief in the good of humankind strengthens the good in the world.

 

Please stay polite as requested by some of your fellow posters.

 

Thank you!

 

 

___________________________________________________________

A little bit of good will is a big step towards making this planet a better place

What we need here is a team of active moderator with a Big Red Ban Hammer (BRBH for shorts), I'm a member on many boards, some of them routinely discus controversial subjects and we sure don't get that kind of abuse, all because of the BRBG.

 

Warder

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SirAntoine wrote:
There was a terrible exchange tonight between two posters, which ended with one calling the other "crazy and maybe evil". 

 

Eh, I wouldn't call it a terrible exchange. I don't take being called "crazy" or "evil" personally. But my imaginary friend who tells me to burn things does.

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(I wonder what the mods' thoughts are...)

 

I don't take anything personal, but I still may feel the need to defend something I like. Trying to see the logic in the statements of one's "opponent" and giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're onto something, seems to work for me so far. It also helps at times to step away and do something else, turning your next post over in the back of your mind for a day before replying.

 

Something else I discovered in the communities of past editions like Dragonsfoot, where many seem to have long since stopped paying attention to "new" D&D: if people aren't anxious over where the future of the game is going, they'll be less likely to attack others' playstyles. At Dragonsfoot, they're in their favorite edition all the time and it isn't going anywhere. Especially when a new edition comes, many posters here want to have the current/new version of the game be something that they will love. Bitterness easily comes of that emotional connection. Be mindful of your emotional connections, and how you act because of them.

I hope once 5th edition comes out, things might calm down after awhile(thats a big maybe). Hopefully people who dont like the new edition will go back to their game(whichever one is your fav.). I hope we dont see what happened with 4th(and maybe 3rd also) where they trolled the forums of a editon they hated or sometimes like in the area where I live never even tried it for the most part.

These new forums are terrible.

I misspell words on purpose too draw out grammer nazis.

Warder17 wrote:

What we need here is a team of active moderator with a Big Red Ban Hammer (BRBH for shorts), I'm a member on many boards, some of them routinely discus controversial subjects and we sure don't get that kind of abuse, all because of the BRBG.

 

Warder

 

I agree with this,  At this point,  I'm the only poster who didn't play 4th edition left.  Something's wrong when a substantial part of the customer base isn't posting on these boards.

 

Dreamstryder wrote:

(I wonder what the mods' thoughts are...)

 

I don't take anything personal, but I still may feel the need to defend something I like. Trying to see the logic in the statements of one's "opponent" and giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're onto something, seems to work for me so far. It also helps at times to step away and do something else, turning your next post over in the back of your mind for a day before replying.

 

Something else I discovered in the communities of past editions like Dragonsfoot, where many seem to have long since stopped paying attention to "new" D&D: if people aren't anxious over where the future of the game is going, they'll be less likely to attack others' playstyles. At Dragonsfoot, they're in their favorite edition all the time and it isn't going anywhere. Especially when a new edition comes, many posters here want to have the current/new version of the game be something that they will love. Bitterness easily comes of that emotional connection. Be mindful of your emotional connections, and how you act because of them.

 

There's nothing wrong with that.  As long as everything is "Attack the post,  not the poster",  then everything should be good if we're all adults.

 

As to Dragonsfoot,  why would they be interested?  1st edition was characterized by a large number of well done adventures,  something WOTC has completely ignored,  and their recent announcement that they're going to ignore experience doesn't help.  They're pretty much tossing out two of the bigger characteristics of 1st edition.

Wizards adventures have been failures inevery edition they have made.

These new forums are terrible.

I misspell words on purpose too draw out grammer nazis.

I think it can be achieved if even just a few small guidelines are followed:

 

* talk about things you like, as opposed to things you don't like.  Nobody thinks 5e is perfect; we all have things about it we wished were a bit different.  But rather than continue to harp over and over on those things, talk about things you do like.

 

* ease back on the hyperbole.  I've seen statements like "I'm not allowed to post unless I worship the WoTC team and 5e like everyone else?"  This sort of ties to the first point.  Just because someone only focuses on the good things instead of the negative things doesn't mean they are a fanboi of the game.  It means they don't like bringing down the forum with negativity.

 

* understand that we have a very niche hobby, so for it to grow, it takes all kinds of gamers.  I may not be a charOpper and I may not be a fan of 4e's ruleset, but welcome those players because we're all gaming nerds.  You won't see me go into optimization threads or 4e threads and say how much I don't like those games.  That would be very rude of me.

I think the overall scope and feel of these forums will change significantly once the new edition is released. No more speculation, no more "I really wish the new edition did this or that" - probably will look about how the forums did before 4e was cancelled and 5e was announced: people posting helpful advice, or offering solutions to complaints or difficulties.

 

Until then, you're going to see speculation, you're going to see argumentation over what the new edition should be, simply because we haven't actually seen the new edition yet.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

I blogged about this a while back. Clicky.

 

The edition wars really need to end, which requires all sides. Both sides need to stop provoking and responding. If someone says something disparaging or incorrect about an edition, it's important to remember that they don't need your favourite edition and their dislike has no impact on your feelings. Don't engage. 

 

WotC themselves aren't helping revitalize the community here by not finishing the forum restructuring promised seven months ago. We don't need playtest forums for a playtest that ended, we don't need a "4e General Forum" with a "Previous Editions" forum ghettoized at the very bottom of the page. A better structure to the forums will encourage discussion. 

 

However, if you want people to come and use your forums, it's important to enable all forms of access. Currently, these forums do not work on iPads. And I'm uncertain of other tablets. Which really hurts visitation.

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Sacrosanct74 wrote:

I think it can be achieved if even just a few small guidelines are followed:

 

* talk about things you like, as opposed to things you don't like.  Nobody thinks 5e is perfect; we all have things about it we wished were a bit different.  But rather than continue to harp over and over on those things, talk about things you do like.

 

* ease back on the hyperbole.  I've seen statements like "I'm not allowed to post unless I worship the WoTC team and 5e like everyone else?"  This sort of ties to the first point.  Just because someone only focuses on the good things instead of the negative things doesn't mean they are a fanboi of the game.  It means they don't like bringing down the forum with negativity.

 

* understand that we have a very niche hobby, so for it to grow, it takes all kinds of gamers.  I may not be a charOpper and I may not be a fan of 4e's ruleset, but welcome those players because we're all gaming nerds.  You won't see me go into optimization threads or 4e threads and say how much I don't like those games.  That would be very rude of me.

 

+1

B I

blacksheepcannibal wrote:

I think the overall scope and feel of these forums will change significantly once the new edition is released. No more speculation, no more "I really wish the new edition did this or that" - probably will look about how the forums did before 4e was cancelled and 5e was announced: people posting helpful advice, or offering solutions to complaints or difficulties.

 

Until then, you're going to see speculation, you're going to see argumentation over what the new edition should be, simply because we haven't actually seen the new edition yet.

 

I think you are right.  Personally, my favorite threads are the ones that share experiences, share resources, share options and ideas.   All of that tends to develop as the game is played.

 

Sacrosanct74 wrote:

I think it can be achieved if even just a few small guidelines are followed:

 

* talk about things you like, as opposed to things you don't like.  Nobody thinks 5e is perfect; we all have things about it we wished were a bit different.  But rather than continue to harp over and over on those things, talk about things you do like.

 

* ease back on the hyperbole.  I've seen statements like "I'm not allowed to post unless I worship the WoTC team and 5e like everyone else?"  This sort of ties to the first point.  Just because someone only focuses on the good things instead of the negative things doesn't mean they are a fanboi of the game.  It means they don't like bringing down the forum with negativity.

 

* understand that we have a very niche hobby, so for it to grow, it takes all kinds of gamers.  I may not be a charOpper and I may not be a fan of 4e's ruleset, but welcome those players because we're all gaming nerds.  You won't see me go into optimization threads or 4e threads and say how much I don't like those games.  That would be very rude of me.

 

Right, right!

A Brave Knight of WTF - "Wielder of the Sword of Balance"

 

Rhenny's Blog:  http://community.wizards.com/user/1497701/blog

 

 

This forum has been mostly edition wars since its inception, with an occaisional though provoking post or bit of humor, but mostly edition wars.  At first is was 2e vs 3e then 3e vs 4e (it could have been vs 2e too, but all the 2e people left long before) then 4e vs essentials (no longer vs 3e because all 3e folks since had fled) and now it is 5e vs all comers and I'm no longer able to peg who is who or what is what. At least the d20 is still a d20 and orcs are orcs, or at least there were until the cartoon art.  Ugh.

 

 

 

 

Wuzzard wrote:

This forum has been mostly edition wars since its inception, with an occaisional though provoking post or bit of humor, but mostly edition wars.  At first is was 2e vs 3e then 3e vs 4e (it could have been vs 2e too, but all the 2e people left long before) then 4e vs essentials (no longer vs 3e because all 3e folks since had fled) and now it is 5e vs all comers and I'm no longer able to peg who is who or what is what. At least the d20 is still a d20 and orcs are orcs, or at least there were until the cartoon art.  Ugh.

 

 

 

 

 

 I thinki there were places to hide thouh so maybe it was not as noticable. THe FR boards were a lot morre active and I missed a lot of the upheavals of 2007/2008 by staying in the Star Wars sections. Most of the old sub forums are gone and the D&DN playtest one is the only remaining forum that is somewhat active. I think the previous editions section gets more posts now than the 4E and FR sections. Very few posters left now and there has been a mass exodus. 

 

 Nice story from 2003. I bought a Elaine Cunningham Book (the last Daughter of the Drow series) and it was missing some pages have reprinted several pages as filler. I popsted about it on the forums and EC herself noticed, PMed me and a few weeks later a new signed copy arrived in the post. Around that time Gygax was posting on Enworld as well so you could actually talk to WoTC/TSR staff past and present. Frank Mentzer still posts on Dragonsfoot.

 

Shortly after that an team of trolls ap[parently went on the offensive in the FR novels section which resulted in that entire section of the forums being removed .

 I only heard about it IRL from one of those who was semi involved. he dodged the ban hammer due to not being the worst offender. Said individual repeated the same trick in 2008 or so and was a member of the 4vengers so go figure. LAst I heard he ended up hating on 4E as well and went to Australia but IRL he was a decent guy to talk to so. I do not recall a massive we hate AD&D crusade on the forums although the occasional hate 3.0 post was created by someone who liked AD&D. It was rare from what I can recall though.

 

 

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

The_Jester wrote:
WotC themselves aren't helping revitalize the community here by not finishing the forum restructuring promised seven months ago. We don't need playtest forums for a playtest that ended, we don't need a "4e General Forum" with a "Previous Editions" forum ghettoized at the very bottom of the page. A better structure to the forums will encourage discussion. 

This x1000.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

I don't think it will get any better, the edition wars will probably only get worse when 5e gets released.  I don't want that to happen but I don't see it going any other way.

 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.

Paraxis wrote:

I don't think it will get any better, the edition wars will probably only get worse when 5e gets released.  I don't want that to happen but I don't see it going any other way.

 

if you don't want that to happen, you realize you have control of it, right?

I personally would argue that stricter/more even moderation should be enough to handle the forums. I rarely see the mods do much of anything anymore, outside of the occasional copy paste "Don't break the CoC here is a link" and an outright refusal to discuss it. 

 

We need actual clarity on what is/isn't allowed, and we need people enforcing it consistantly and fairly. 

 

On a similar front, we need an actual place to go do debate the merits of edition v edition, and a blanket ban on that sort of talk is terrible. Throw a sub forum out and call it "The edition wars" and just let people go at it. So long as they stay within the realms of Decency (Defined by the CoC) we should be fine. Then when it comes up in a normal thread the mod can swoop in "There is a subforum for this, go there. No more edition war talk" and a check back the next day or so. If it crops back up, delete posts and start the temp bans. 

 

Also finishing the restructure would be nice. I feel like since the initial gleemax forum migration they have been in a constant state of "Under construction". 

 

If you want forums, you need to support them. 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

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I will enter one rather acid observation.  Take it for what it's worth.  It is my obsevation that all too often those that complain about the "sordid state of these forums" (and not just these particuar forums) are too often a large part of the actual problem.  Enough said.

 

-Polaris

When I think about online communities I frequent, I think of things in terms of three questions:

 

1. Are the forums a friendly place to have a discussion?

2. Are interesting discussions going on there?

3. Is there a reason to visit those forums over another? i.e. is the experience there unique enough that I value visiting it and contributing.

 

Common sense perhaps but the intersection of those three questions might be what the original poster is trying to get at.  

 

Maybe?

 

 

masterfat78 wrote:

Wizards adventures have been failures inevery edition they have made.

 

Sorry for pointing this out but this right here is a text book example of one shouldn't post, it's abrasive and rude and just dangle there like a bait for those who find great adventures in WotC past and present and the thing is that it's very easy to say the exact same thing without being rude about it.

 

Warder

My Ignore List: blacksheepcannibal

lokiare

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Polaris

Warder17 wrote:
Sorry for pointing this out but this right here is a text book example of one shouldn't post, it's abrasive and rude and just dangle there like a bait for those who find great adventures in WotC past and present and the thing is that it's very easy to say the exact same thing without being rude about it.

 

Warder

Yes, you can say the same thing more politely, but comparing the overall success of WotC adventures past and present to other companies - like ones that start with "Path" and end with "finder" you have to admit there is a distinct dichotomy of success there.

 

But I suppose we should just treat each other with kid gloves?

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

I don't know about letting mods go or anything like that, I have no idea how forum mods function, if they are volunteers or paid employees.  I do think that the mods being harsher on people, better organizaion of the forums, and getting one forum section for Q&A by WoTC would go along way to a better forum for all.  One of the things I like about the Savage Worlds forum is the creator of the game has a Q&A thread, you post a question and know one else is allowed to respond, he will get to it and does so very regularly.  It keeps things clear and concise about rules and shows that he cares about the community and his customers.

 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.

blacksheepcannibal wrote:

 

Warder17 wrote:
Sorry for pointing this out but this right here is a text book example of one shouldn't post, it's abrasive and rude and just dangle there like a bait for those who find great adventures in WotC past and present and the thing is that it's very easy to say the exact same thing without being rude about it.

 

Warder

 

Yes, you can say the same thing more politely, but comparing the overall success of WotC adventures past and present to other companies - like ones that start with "Path" and end with "finder" you have to admit there is a distinct dichotomy of success there.

 

But I suppose we should just treat each other with kid gloves?

 

Besides, if we continue to hide the truth about how aweful most of their adventures are, WoTc will never get their acts together and actually create some adventures that are worth playing.

JohnLynch wrote:
Do people have any suggestions on how we can achieve this goal?

A lot of this comes down to the moderation style here. Other places I visit have proactive mods who spot problematic posters early, warn them, perm ban them, and ban their new accounts. Here the system is reactive. That means we have to react appropriately.

 

If someone makes a post that is intended to provoke, then no one should respond. No one should lecture or object or anything else. People should report and move on.

 

Posts that aren't real attempts to converse are pretty easy to spot. One or two sentences, inflammatory and accusatory language, rude tone, no real content pertinent to the thread... it's an easy formula to derail and provoke.

 

Sometimes a lengthier post with more thought is still an attempt to bully others into silence, usually by very direct, personal insults. In that case mods usually delete the insulting part instead of the whole post. Respond to the remaining content if you wish, but that poster may not stop being rude.

 

Sometimes a legitimate attempt at conversation can feel provocative because of someone's attitude or word choice. That's when it may be wise to PM the other poster and say briefly what it will take to make a better conversation. It's important to remember that different tastes are not against the rules though, so if you ask someone to explain his or her tastes, you may not like the reasons.

 

Forums where devs and authors post always treat these people with the utmost respect. Posters who troll VIPs or derail their threads don't get lectured or argued with - they get deleted and banned. Since the mods are separate from the community here, we have to report posts if we expect to have that type of environment.

truth/humor
Ed_Warlord, on what it takes to make a thread work: I think for it to be really constructive, everyone would have to be honest with each other, and with themselves.

 

iserith: The game doesn't profess to be "just like our world." What it is just like is the world of Dungeons & Dragons. Any semblance to reality is purely coincidental.

 

Areleth: How does this help the problems we have with Fighters? Do you think that every time I thought I was playing D&D what I was actually doing was slamming my head in a car door and that if you just explain how to play without doing that then I'll finally enjoy the game?

 

TD: That's why they put me on the front of every book. This is the dungeon, and I am the dragon. A word of warning though: I'm totally not a level appropriate encounter.

XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:

 

blacksheepcannibal wrote:

 

Warder17 wrote:
Sorry for pointing this out but this right here is a text book example of one shouldn't post, it's abrasive and rude and just dangle there like a bait for those who find great adventures in WotC past and present and the thing is that it's very easy to say the exact same thing without being rude about it.

 

Warder

 

Yes, you can say the same thing more politely, but comparing the overall success of WotC adventures past and present to other companies - like ones that start with "Path" and end with "finder" you have to admit there is a distinct dichotomy of success there.

 

But I suppose we should just treat each other with kid gloves?

 

 

Besides, if we continue to hide the truth about how aweful most of their adventures are, WoTc will never get their acts together and actually create some adventures that are worth playing.

 

Say what you like, just don't be a jerk about it. And if you have a problem with WotC adventure design than open a thread about it, don't bomb drop a post and run away, and the same goes for any other topic.

 

Warder

My Ignore List: blacksheepcannibal

lokiare

englishlanguage

verdegris_sage

Polaris

speaking of making this a better place, we could make progress if we cut back on the "unless I say how bad the product is, there's no way WoTC will ever know" types of posts.  None of us are that special, and more often than not is just an excuse to be negative

Always remember that the words that are appearing on a screen belong to an actual, living person and there's probably much more to them than what they express on the internet at this particular moment. If possible, try to find some common ground with those you dissagree with; it helps you to see them as other people. As for trolls, if their goal is to get people upset over something dumb, I try finding a way to move the subject to something less controversial that people might be interested in talking about.

If someone is wrong about something, explain why you dissagree in a way that doesn't feel like an attack. And always acknowledge what they are doing right in your view, even if if's mostly not something you aggree with.

 

Also, I find that the nicest threads are ones where people are doing something creative, like coming up with a campaign setting or inventing some thing that helps people handle the math for some aspect of adventuring. I reccomend threads like that.

"In this world.., you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

Elwood/James Stewart [link]
 
Were you a D&D Next playtester? If so, you'll be able to access this elegant and finely-crafted set of BOOKMARKED PDFS! Every file has been bookmarked, linked, and annotated to make your life easier when looking up that one rule you always forget!

Hello all,

 

Ordinarily this thread would either be moved to Community Business or closed. However since this is where you all seem to primarily discuss things together I'm going to leave this thread open and here for the time being. In order for that to remain the situation the thread needs to remain polite, positive, and constructive. Please be extremely careful to avoid anything that could be disruptive and to treat each other respectfully. Treat each other humanely. And that includes the ORCs. If you want to complain about moderation in a constructive manner, that's fine. Please avoid disparaging or insulting language and I'm going to have to ask that you folks avoid calling for anyone's firing, either in R&D, web development, or in moderation. For that type of thing you'll have to contact us via the help page.

 

So far, for the most part, this is being a reasonable and constructive discussion. I'd like to not have to shut it down. Help me out with that goal. I'd offer cookies as an inducement but I'm still working on that cookie downloading  device, so my appreciation and admiration is all I can offer.

 

 

Thanks, and carry on,

 

Monica

Sacrosanct74 wrote:

speaking of making this a better place, we could make progress if we cut back on the "unless I say how bad the product is, there's no way WoTC will ever know" types of posts.  None of us are that special, and more often than not is just an excuse to be negative

Negative posts without substance may be worth reporting if you think they are attempts to get an angry response or turn a distinct thread into one of the five topics that keep coming up. If someone can't muster more than "This edition sucks" or "This product rocks" plus a few adverbs, there's definitely nothing worth responding to. That person thinks he's here to vote or to reveal his super-important verdict (as you described) and nothing you can say will change that.

 

Negative posts with substance are those "different opinions" everyone is allowed to have.

truth/humor
Ed_Warlord, on what it takes to make a thread work: I think for it to be really constructive, everyone would have to be honest with each other, and with themselves.

 

iserith: The game doesn't profess to be "just like our world." What it is just like is the world of Dungeons & Dragons. Any semblance to reality is purely coincidental.

 

Areleth: How does this help the problems we have with Fighters? Do you think that every time I thought I was playing D&D what I was actually doing was slamming my head in a car door and that if you just explain how to play without doing that then I'll finally enjoy the game?

 

TD: That's why they put me on the front of every book. This is the dungeon, and I am the dragon. A word of warning though: I'm totally not a level appropriate encounter.

People complain about the ORCs? I've never seen an admin here do anything that I really disagreed with.

 

I really wish people would understand that something like this: "I really don't like this game mechanic, I think it is trash. It's wholly worthless, and only people that play the game in a silly manner really enjoy it" is not trolling. Could the statement be made more eloquently? Sure. Really, just saying that you don't like something is generally not much to discuss - actually backing up your point is better, and backing it up in a way that is generally polite is better yet.

 

But no matter how rudely put, somebody disagreeing with somebody else does not constitute trolling, doubly-so if it's on-topic discussion. Even changing the topic to something else related to the forums is not trolling - this is done all the time, politely and impolitely, although it is considered good form to make a new thread if there will be whole discussion on another non-thread-related topic.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

What's an ORC?

"In this world.., you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

Elwood/James Stewart [link]
 
Were you a D&D Next playtester? If so, you'll be able to access this elegant and finely-crafted set of BOOKMARKED PDFS! Every file has been bookmarked, linked, and annotated to make your life easier when looking up that one rule you always forget!

JohnLynch wrote:
Is anyone else willing to try to work together and help make this place great again?


Do people have any suggestions on how we can achieve this goal?

A little bit from each of us goes a long way.  For my part, I post rarely.  I wouldn't consider that great advice to everybody (you might enjoy being an active member of this board), but I find it tends to keep me honest.

 

I like armchair game design.  I like D&D (in almost all its forms).  Back when new packets were coming out regularly, this was a great place to watch the development of a new edition in real time (sort of...), and feel like I was helping propagate new design ideas, even if it was just amongst us gals out in the community.  The developers at WotC may not have read a single post, but I didn't care.  I lived (still do) for this sort of thing.

 

So I only post for one gosh darn reason, and that's because there's something interesting about the design of D&D I want to talk about.  I barely even look at threads that have run on for more than 5 pages, because the evidence is overwhelming that all the actual ideas have already been hashed out in the first couple of pages, and everything after that is...

 

Well to be honest, I'm not sure what it is, exactly.  Duck duck goose or something!

 

So I kind of pride myself on being constructive when I can, and just straight up quiet when I can't.  Even if all you can contribute is your silence, you can still do something about the state of the forum.

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