Tempus Fugit

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Should Wotc release Birthright 4E , do you think they should advance the timline?

Whatever your answer why? And if yes how much?

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

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Birthright

Ok lack of replies have forced me to post mine own ideas, it took me a whole three minutes to come up with this (and it shows), but hopefully it will shame somebody with talent into having a go.

This advances the timeline 50ish years

Rage of the Gorgon

551 years after the fall of Michael Roele that event which most Anuireans feared above all else happened. The Gorgon began his war of conquest! After years of preparation the armies and monsters of the Black Prince Raesene made swift and terrible inroads to conquering the divided Anuirean states, with no organised opposition and no single or small alliance of Anuirean realms able to match his military might his victory seemed assured.

Six months into his campaign however a charismatic military leader named Aedric arose, with a powerful Anduiras bloodline this hitherto unknown Warlord united the different realms and made powerful alliances with both the Tuarviel & Sielwode Elves as well as soliciting aid from the Rjuven & Brecht. A bloody 2 year war of reclamation followed until finally the Gorgon was forced back to the Gorgon's Crown.

The Second Shadow War.

Gathering his allied forces Aedric prepared to end the Gorgon's threat once and for all, sadly this was not to be as his old friends the Elven archer Mearen & dwarven crossbowman Brana brought news that a great darkness had covered the lands to the west and a force of undead, pale shadow men and demon men had laid waste to (?????), led by the Cold Rider. Gathering his exhausted forces and sending out spies Aedric turned to face this new threat only to find himself outmanoeuvred at every corner. Seemingly able to traverse the Shadow Realm at will the Riders forces could be anywhere and everywhere. After five long years Aedric determined that the only hope for victory lay in destroying the enemy headquarters at (??????), coupled with his discovery that the cold rider was the god of evil Azrai reborn and the demon men were descendents of Adurians that had worshipped him he wasted no time in moving forward with his plan.
Surprising Azrai with his boldness Aedric's forces smashed into the unprepared enemy, however even with the surprise betrayal of the Adurians, who hated their master as much as they feared him the battle soon turned against the Aedric’s forces. As all hope seemed lost and Aedric fell before Azrai's dark blade rays of light pierced the darkness and destroyed the undead, drove away the shadow men and gave even more of the proud Adurians the strength to defy Azrai. The gods had once again taken the field of battle.
Determined not to make the same mistakes that had resulted in their forebears destructions and sensing that perhaps Azrai could not truly be destroyed whilst evil existed ,and he was able to draw on the Shadow Realms power the gods had planned and waited till Azrai was at his most vulnerable. As Azrai's attention was on his mortal foe the gods completed a ritual to restore the shadow realm to its original wild and fey state and banish Azrai and his followers living and dead from that place. Having no desire to see those followers or Azrai dominate the mortal world this ritual also transformed Azrai into a new plane of existence, diffusing his power and mind and locking it forever as the place where the Shadow fell, banishing his followers to its cold embrace.

The next 50 years.

Much has changed in the last 50 years with a strong Adurian (Tiefling) realm rising where the domains of (????) once stood, many kingdoms have vanished and appeared as borders shift and change and allegiances are made. In Khinasi a new race has been discovered the Dragonborn of the dragon isles, this young and militaristic race are rare as yet but have already established a small domain bordering both Anuire and Khinasi and trade and fight with equal aplomb. And amongst the common folk, well amongst them a dream of a unified and peaceful Cerilia still exists and hope of a hero to achieve it.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

You could also ask the folks at The Piazza on the Birthright Forum there. It isn't very busy there either but at least by dropping your line in more than one spot you'll increase the chances of a bite. ;) Don't give up on Birthright discussions though.

The Piazza A renaissance of the Old Worlds. Where any setting can be explored, any rules system discussed, and any combination of the two brought to life.

Should Wotc release Birthright 4E , do you think they should advance the timline?

Whatever your answer why? And if yes how much?

Uhm, Birthright doesn't suffer from a long pre-existing campaign history like Greyhawk or Dragonlance, nor does it have overly powerful NPCs, so from that point of view there's little need of timeline advance.
The only reasons I could see for a timeline advance is to accomodate the new races and the changes in some classes -- though given the limited number of true wizards in Cerilia, even that may not be so difficult to handle.

GP
Uhm, Birthright doesn't suffer from a long pre-existing campaign history like Greyhawk or Dragonlance, nor does it have overly powerful NPCs, so from that point of view there's little need of timeline advance.
The only reasons I could see for a timeline advance is to accomodate the new races and the changes in some classes -- though given the limited number of true wizards in Cerilia, even that may not be so difficult to handle.

GP

I'd agree that a timeline advance isn't necessary. In fact, I think it's far more likely that, instead of pretending to be the same world, a 4E version would be treated as a "reboot."

I would really hate to see the new races accommodated into Birthright, though. It doesn't really fit the flavor of the setting, IMHO. Not every setting should have to make room for every available race - or class.
There's no reason to not introduce the new races. Flavour is all about presentation and ingredients. Written as in the PHB the new races don't offer anything but with a different write up.....

I don't personally see the need to advance the timeline if your not introducing the new races and realistically I don't know whether Wotc would release BR without them (if they will at all).

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

You could also ask the folks at The Piazza on the Birthright Forum there. It isn't very busy there either but at least by dropping your line in more than one spot you'll increase the chances of a bite. ;) Don't give up on Birthright discussions though.

Never will .

I'll have to register and do as you suggest.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

Must say that I loved Birthright as a setting though I did very little with it and (much to my regret now) sold my books on e-Bay last year.

Not sure whether WotC will release it as a setting, though I hope they do. My reservations about it would be the effect that there might be on the flavour of the setting and the likely lack of domain rules. The principle of 4E is balance between the PCs with each character bringing something to the table. I can't see how bloodlines and ruling domains would fold easily into that concept. That said, it's early days for this edition so who knows what will be added as the years go by.

Ruling domains has nothing to do with combat, so there would be no problem from the point of view of the rules system.
However, 4e doesn't have much room for nations and large scale game, so it is unlikely that Birthright would fit into the plans.

Bloodlines could easily fit as Feats or multiclass-only classes (which is basically the same). Just like in AD&D, you give up something to get the Bloodline powers -- there, it is an XP bonus. In 4e, XP bonuses are inappropriate, but there is a large number of Feat slots that can be used for this purpose. Feats like Alertness or Wintertouched easily fit into the mold of Bloodline powers. Minor bloodline powers like Bloodmark may be given for free, or made into feats (e.g. Bloodmark could give a bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate).

GP
Ruling domains has nothing to do with combat, so there would be no problem from the point of view of the rules system.
However, 4e doesn't have much room for nations and large scale game, so it is unlikely that Birthright would fit into the plans.

Bloodlines could easily fit as Feats or multiclass-only classes (which is basically the same). Just like in AD&D, you give up something to get the Bloodline powers -- there, it is an XP bonus. In 4e, XP bonuses are inappropriate, but there is a large number of Feat slots that can be used for this purpose. Feats like Alertness or Wintertouched easily fit into the mold of Bloodline powers. Minor bloodline powers like Bloodmark may be given for free, or made into feats (e.g. Bloodmark could give a bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate).

GP

Agreed, with the introduction of multiclass classes(?) we see the perfect vehicle to carry bloodlines forward into 4E.

As to domain rulership I haven't done any work on it but I was thinking a rules expansion to the skill challenges concept might be a starting point.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

Ruling domains has nothing to do with combat, so there would be no problem from the point of view of the rules system.

My comment wasn't intended to refer to combat so apologies for not being 100% clear. One of the principles of 4E is giving each PC a role that has equal prominence in the group. This would be difficult (though not impossible) to mesh with the bloodline and domain rulership concepts of Birthright.

Don't get me wrong, I truly hope that WotC makes this happen since Birthright was one of the very best 2E settings with much to be explored. However, the domain rulership concepts made it even better and IMO it would not be the same without them.
My comment wasn't intended to refer to combat so apologies for not being 100% clear. One of the principles of 4E is giving each PC a role that has equal prominence in the group. This would be difficult (though not impossible) to mesh with the bloodline and domain rulership concepts of Birthright.

Don't get me wrong, I truly hope that WotC makes this happen since Birthright was one of the very best 2E settings with much to be explored. However, the domain rulership concepts made it even better and IMO it would not be the same without them.

Not so difficult, if based around skill challenges. They already incorporate the idea of every PC participating. Surely not too difficult to expand that to a domain turn?

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

My comment wasn't intended to refer to combat so apologies for not being 100% clear. One of the principles of 4E is giving each PC a role that has equal prominence in the group. This would be difficult (though not impossible) to mesh with the bloodline and domain rulership concepts of Birthright.

For bloodlines, I don't see the problem: each PC would choose either a Bloodline related feat or some other feat, so they would be equally powerful.
As for domain rulership, it all amounts to giving to each PC the same rank -- i.e., they are either all province rulers, all realm regents, or all non-regents.

GP
As for domain rulership, it all amounts to giving to each PC the same rank -- i.e., they are either all province rulers, all realm regents, or all non-regents.

I agree 100% with this statement.

Birthright is a fantastic setting and the domain rules added a layer to the game that whilst a little finicky offered a whole new gaming avenue (at the time).

However if the PC's split between regents & non-regents you will see a marked incidence of player boredom, 4e's philosophy of keeping the players involves is one I support and it's because I've witnessed this problem first hand.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

You don't really have to change the Shadow World that much because it is already a combination of the Feywild and Shadowfell and you don't really need to split them.
You don't really have to change the Shadow World that much because it is already a combination of the Feywild and Shadowfell and you don't really need to split them.

Why would I split them???

Oh, you mean what I wrote, that's just a three minute speculation about how Wotc might go about reintroducing BR in 4E not a statement of intent.

I was just encouraging people to speculate.

In my own house conversion, no new races, no timeline advancement. Just adding the 4E template to everything.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

I must be getting old!!

Until the above it never occurred to me that the Shadowfell/Feywild ARE basically just a split Shadow realm. Ok not exact but definitely some resemblance

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Nietzsche

TSR Worlds

Alternity

Birthright

I agree 100% with this statement.

Birthright is a fantastic setting and the domain rules added a layer to the game that whilst a little finicky offered a whole new gaming avenue (at the time).

However if the PC's split between regents & non-regents you will see a marked incidence of player boredom, 4e's philosophy of keeping the players involves is one I support and it's because I've witnessed this problem first hand.

In order to keep a regent/non-regent thing from happening I decided that my players must either all participate and be apart of the same realm and rule various posts in the realm for example the thief the guilds, law for warriors etc. Or I allow them to be bloodied and that they maybe apart of the ruling family but they have no shape in the policy making so there for the games are ran just like a normal adventure for any other AD&D setting. And when they wish to become rulers I will go back to my first rule and force them to all be apart of the same domain. But I also only use 2ed rules with some things taking from 3.5ed but not very much. My players have not played the new editions and show no interest in it.
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