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okay my question is as follows:

If you are 10 square from the target. you attack with your bow then sprint away aka (+2 movement, - 5 attack, combat advanatage). do you apply the -5 to the bow attack or not?



The move happened AFTER the attack, so the penalty happens after the attack, too.


So yes, it is usually best to attack first, THEN run.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.


Hi Community..


I have a question that arose from last nights game ..


When a power indicates that you push,pull,slide ect a creature.. are there limitation on the size of the creature.


in the example our ranger pushed a troll 2 squares (large creature).. but that raised the question what is it was a dragon ..


In the meantime I added a house rule to say that you can ony push creatures of "your size +1 size class" ..


Any help is appreciated.


Macrender.




nope, no limit. it's not always you pushing something around. and when your rogue walks up to the BBEG, and hits with knockout, and then coup-de-graces with an action point killing the mob. you can't cry over that either.


 


anyway, it's fun to have the kobold make the dragon switch places (if he fits)....

Amazed at how obtuse people can be since 1972.

I have a question about the feat "Hurl Dragonbreath". There is very little info about it in the feat info from the original Dragon Magazine or in the builder. You also don't get the info on the power card the builder generates. Since it says hurl for a burst 2 does the attack trigger an OA if I am next to an enemy? Does it count as a ranged attack?


I think I understand how the burst effect area is calculated but I could not find a clear box that says what the new breath attacks information is. I do understand that most of the data (Attack, Hit effect) stays the same.


Thanks


 


EDIT:


I think I found the line in the PH saying that it would trigger an OA since its an area attack, but then does the normal dragonborn breath weapon trigger an OA as well?


I think I found the line in the PH saying that it would trigger an OA since its an area attack, but then does the normal dragonborn breath weapon trigger an OA as well?



No. If you use Hurl Breath, it's an area attack which means it provokes. The regular dragon breath is a close attack which means it does not provoke.

Sorry for the various questions, they come to me when I'm away from the table. Does the Brutal property of a weapon affect the extra dice rolled for crits? All dmg done using the weapon?


Assuming I critical with an Execution Axe with Executioner's Bracers on does the +1d12 from the High Crit property and the +1d6 from the bracers both have the brutal 2 applied to them, making the min crit dmg +6? (assuming a non-magical weapon)


Thanks for answering the random questions I have.


 


Sorry for the various questions, they come to me when I'm away from the table. Does the Brutal property of a weapon affect the extra dice rolled for crits? All dmg done using the weapon?


Assuming I critical with an Execution Axe with Executioner's Bracers on does the +1d12 from the High Crit property and the +1d6 from the bracers both have the brutal 2 applied to them, making the min crit dmg +6? (assuming a non-magical weapon)


Thanks for answering the random questions I have.


 




Brutal applies to [W] dice only.


This means the high crit dice are effected, but any other critical dice are not.

Imagine a power has no requirement for a melee weapon, but has the range of "melee weapon". Does thatin itselfmean that the power can only be used wielding a melee weapon, or would it, for example, work for someone using a bow at melee range?

No. Definition of the "melee weapon" keywords (PH pg. 56):


A melee attack power that has a range of "weapon" allows you to attack a target within the reach of the weapon you’re wielding


Ranged weapons don't have a reach.  Also, in the weapon definitions (PH pg. 215):


You can't use a ranged weapon as a melee weapon.


Two strikes.

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

Is there a way in 4e to weild a two handed weapon in one hand? If not could you do it with penalties? If so what would they be.

Is there a way in 4e to weild a two handed weapon in one hand? If not could you do it with penalties? If so what would they be.


You can hold a 2-handed weapon in one hand, but not wield.  At level 21, you can choose the epic destiny Eternal Defender that allows you to wield weapon as if you are one size larger.  Then you could wield a 2-handed weapon in 1-hand. 

Q: If a creature with Spider Climb is overhead-and-adjacent to a PC (that is, crawling along a 10' ceiling at a location adjacent to the spot directly over the player's head) and voluntarily drops down to a PC-adjacent spot on the player's level...


 


  1. Does the falling creature provoke an opportunity attack?

  2. Does it have to make an Athletics check to "clear" the vertical distance (or else end its fall "over a chasm" and take damage)?

  3. If the creature is untrained in Acrobatics, does it automatically take falling damage and end up prone?

  4. What about Skulk Zombies who don't provoke OA's during their mobile melee attack?

  5. Do these answers change for a 9' ceiling or a drop into a spot not adjacent to the player?

I've scoured the RAW at my disposal and I can't find any rules for voluntarily dropping off of a vertical surface, especially at-or-near that tricky 10' limit.

Q: If a creature with Spider Climb is overhead-and-adjacent to a PC (that is, crawling along a 10' ceiling at a location adjacent to the spot directly over the player's head) and voluntarily drops down to a PC-adjacent spot on the player's level...

 


  1. Does the falling creature provoke an opportunity attack?

  2. Does it have to make an Athletics check to "clear" the vertical distance (or else end its fall "over a chasm" and take damage)?

  3. If the creature is untrained in Acrobatics, does it automatically take falling damage and end up prone?

  4. What about Skulk Zombies who don't provoke OA's during their mobile melee attack?

  5. Do these answers change for a 9' ceiling or a drop into a spot not adjacent to the player?

I've scoured the RAW at my disposal and I can't find any rules for voluntarily dropping off of a vertical surface, especially at-or-near that tricky 10' limit.




A bunch of stuff... First - I'm curious as to why jump down?  Given the height you mention, the creature is adjacent, and may attack from the ceiling - why bother going further? 

That said - falling and OA is an interesting "hole" in the RAW.  However, one of the BEST explanations I've heard to determine intent has been that falling is forced movement (pull) caused by gravity.  In such a light, the answers would be:


1. no - forced movement does not provoke
2. no - they just need the ability to "let go"
3. yes- if the critter jumps down and is NOT trained in athletics, it would need to suffer both the damage and prone condition from the fall.
4. irrelevant (see #1)
5. yes - at 9' damage is 0 (no damage, no prone)

Through the ages, many would wonder "Does art imitate life or does life imitate art?" I wonder "Does the art of discourse on the internet imitate the art of discourse in life or does the art of discourse in life imitate the art of discourse on the internet?"


1. no - forced movement does not provoke




Forced movement does not provoke... but falling is not classified as forced movement.


It cannot be forced movement by RAW, because forced movement cannot move creatures along a vertical plane.

A bunch of stuff... First - I'm curious as to why jump down?  Given the height you mention, the creature is adjacent, and may attack from the ceiling - why bother going further? 


Because the players are in a low-ceilinged sewer with thigh-deep water, and the Skulk Zombies can  hit, drop, and move away (as part of their Mobile Melee standard action), drop prone under the water (as a minor) and then move 2 or 3 squares stealthed (as a move).  The amount of damage they deal will make the players eager to get them out of the fight, so leaving them exposed on the ceiling makes them dangerous once... but hiding them in the murk and mixing them with Pack Zombies and Drowned Ones makes them dangerous two or three times.


 


 

Does the falling creature provoke an opportunity attack

This is actually not a simple question and has been subject to some discussion (example here). By strict RAW falling movement still provokes, but many prefer to treat it similarly to forced movement in regard to OA's. However, even then I personally would still not treat voluntarily jumping down as exempt from OA's.

if the critter jumps down and is NOT trained in athletics, it would need to suffer both the damage and prone condition from the fall.

I believe you mean "trained in acrobatics" here. Although athletics might cover normal jumping, reducing falling damage requires acrobatics.

I f a character is granted Invisibility from another character, do they become visible if they attack an enemy?


 


Specific instance: 


Illusory Erasure

Your magic song makes an ally abruptly disappear, giving him or her a chance to sneak up on foes.


Encounter   bullet.gif     Arcane, Illusion
Minor Action      Ranged 10


Target: One ally


Effect: The target becomes invisible until the end of your next turn, and you slide the target 2 squares.

You will be invisible for the duration granted by the power, even if you attack.  Remember that just because you are invisible, doesn't mean that you are hidden (cannot see or hear you).  Attacking ends the hidden condition derived from Stealth.  In this case, you would still be invisible after your attack, but your location would be known (if you were hidden beforehand, or would already have been known, if not).

I've scoured the RAW at my disposal and I can't find any rules for voluntarily dropping off of a vertical surface, especially at-or-near that tricky 10' limit.



The 3D rules for D&D suck.  Seriously.  You will *have* to make your own rules on this.


As for falling provoking OAs:  It probably *shouldn't*.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.

Are a Wizard's Utility Powers just like their daily powers, in that they can prepare only one of each learned level?


e.g.


Daily:  ONE each from:  1,5,9 ...       &      Utility: ONE each from 2,6,10 ....


The only distinction being that a prepared utility could be a daily use, or it could be an encounter use, but the fact remains that there may be only one used from each learned level, and it must be selected during the extended rest, just like a daily, correct?

Correct, a wizard can only select one each of their utility powers per level for usage after an extended rest.  



Example: My wizard has Levitate (daily) and Wizard's Escape (encounter) as her level six utilities.  I have to chose which to prepare, just the same as with my dailies.

I believe you mean "trained in acrobatics" here. Although athletics might cover normal jumping, reducing falling damage requires acrobatics.



belated, but thank you for the correction Embarassed
Through the ages, many would wonder "Does art imitate life or does life imitate art?" I wonder "Does the art of discourse on the internet imitate the art of discourse in life or does the art of discourse in life imitate the art of discourse on the internet?"


Heya,



 



1-When your character falls unconscious, does the ongoing effects that are affecting you still continue ?



ex: you fall at -4hp, you were affected by ongoing dmg 5. do you still continue to lose 5hps each rounds until you make a saving throw ?



 



2-When your character falls unconscious, does a zone he is sustaining automatically ends ? or its stays there ?



ex: cleric cast consecrated ground, he stands in it. he gets whacked and falls unconscious. does the zone stops ? or it stays there, then at the beginning of his turn he gets healed by the zone and become conscious and then can re-sustain the zone ? thus always getting back up at 1hp, unless taken down to 'death' negative hps ?



 



thx!


1-When your character falls unconscious, does the ongoing effects that are affecting you still continue ?


Nothing *says* they stop, so they don't stop.


 


ex: you fall at -4hp, you were affected by ongoing dmg 5. do you still continue to lose 5hps each rounds until you make a saving throw ?


That's correct.  You keep taking damage until you save, regardless of whether you're up or down.


 


2-When your character falls unconscious, does a zone he is sustaining automatically ends ? or its stays there ?


Nothing says your zones end when you fall unconscious, so they don't end.


 


ex: cleric cast consecrated ground, he stands in it. he gets whacked and falls unconscious. does the zone stops ? or it stays there, then at the beginning of his turn he gets healed by the zone and become conscious and then can re-sustain the zone ? thus always getting back up at 1hp, unless taken down to 'death' negative hps ?


That's exactly correct.


The zone ends when the power SAYS it ends - at the end of a turn where you don't Sustain it, or when you die. 


In the specific case of Consecrated Ground, alternatives to killing the cleric through mass damage include force-moving him out of the Zone (so he doesn't get healed and doesn't get up) and Stunning him (so that even though he gets up, he can't take the Minor Action to sustain the Zone and it ends when his turn ends).

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.

Question reguarding the Heirlooms of Mazgorax set (AV2 pg 134, 135).


 


Set Benefit with 4 or more Weilders states:


When a creature who wears or wields an item from this set would spend a healing surge, that creature can allow an ally who wears or weilds an item from his set to spend a healing surge instead.


 


Say a cleric were to use healing word on a fighter and roll such that the target would spend a surge and regain an additional 12 hit points. Using the benefit of the set, the fighter allows his ally a swordmage who is too far away from the cleric to spend the surge instead.


 


Question 1. Who gets the additional 12 hit points from Healing Word?


  a. The fighter - as he was the target of the healing word.


  b. The swordmage - as he was the one who spent the surge and regained hit points.


  c. Neither - the fighter was the target of healing word but the additional healing doesn't occur because the fighter didn't spend a surge.


 


Question 2. Would this still work if the fighter had no surges remaining?


  a. Yes


  b. No


  c. A fighter out of surges ? Seriously ?


 


Question 3. What the heck is the swordmage doing so far away from the Cleric, doesn't he know NOT to split the party ?


   a. No, He's an idiot.


   b. Yes, but the GM moved him over there cause the guy's a bit of a jerk.


   c. Who cares? Rocks fall, everyone dies!


 

Oh and one more ponderable for you...


 


A Drow holding a sunrod uses his Cloud of Darkness.


Cloud of darkness produces a *gasp* cloud of Darkness (that for some reason or another isn't a zone... but that's another question) which blocks line of sight, but not line of effect. Since the sunrod which is inside the cloud of darkness still has line of effect, it would still illuminate the area within 20 squares of it, resulting in an area which is being illuminated by a light source from within a cloud of darkness.


Is this correct or incorrect ?


Is this right or is this seriously wrong?

Two questions came up in a recent game:


1. Does Untyped ongoing damage stack? A monster I was running was hit with two different powers. One did 10 untyped ongoing damage, and the other did 5 untyped ongoing. I understand that it would have to save v. both, but would it take 15 damage at the start of its turn or just 10?


2. With the Fighter Paragon Path Dreadnought, the Unfailing Resources path feature is a free action. Could a character who is dominated use this feature to shrug off the domination? A dazed character may use free actions (domination includes the dazed condition), but domination seems to imply that you are not in control of your character... This is a very powerful feature in either case.


Thanks 


1. Does Untyped ongoing damage stack? A monster I was running was hit with two different powers. One did 10 untyped ongoing damage, and the other did 5 untyped ongoing. I understand that it would have to save v. both, but would it take 15 damage at the start of its turn or just 10?




No, Ongoing Damage of the same type(or Untyped) does not stack(PHB1 p.278).  Merely the largest value stays of the same types(or Untyped).  Multiple types of Ongoing Damage though can be on a single target, each with their own saving throws.
Funny thing really, could have sworn that Untyped Damage "merged" somewhere before double checking myself.



2. With the Fighter Paragon Path Dreadnought, the Unfailing Resources path feature is a free action. Could a character who is dominated use this feature to shrug off the domination? A dazed character may use free actions (domination includes the dazed condition), but domination seems to imply that you are not in control of your character... This is a very powerful feature in either case.




My call is no.  Dominated states that the Dominating Creature chooses the Action for the Dominated.  It seems to be meant as a step worse then Stun in that matter, where it not only prevents the player from taking any action but turns your turn against yourself and your allies.  If it was a "No Action" style feature or power, then he could throw off the Stun/Dominated Condition.  There is at least one No Action Utility power out there for this reason to grant Saving Throws or remove a condition, see Warlock Level 16 Utility power Painful Transference.

I don't really understand how the "Boundless Endurance" power (Level 2 fighter utility) works, I understand the concept of regeneration but what I don't get is how long the effect lasts, does it last until he is at full hit points again, does it last until he is not bloodied, does the effect last the whole battle? Maybe i'm missing something but the description seems pretty vague, any help is appreciated.

 Hi everyone !


My question is about one of the uses of the heal skill :


Use Second Wind: Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her second wind (page 291) without the character having to spend an action. The character doesn't gain the defense bonuses normally granted by second wind.


Question : Can we use this on an unconscious target ?


Thanks for your answers, my gaming group hasn't reached a common agreement about this rule


Edit : thanks for the swift answer ! i didn't post a thanks message to avoid burdeing this useful forum


I don't really understand how the "Boundless Endurance" power (Level 2 fighter utility) works, I understand the concept of regeneration but what I don't get is how long the effect lasts, does it last until he is at full hit points again, does it last until he is not bloodied, does the effect last the whole battle? Maybe i'm missing something but the description seems pretty vague, any help is appreciated.




There are three different ... well I guess you could call them qualifiers.  First is that the Regeneration only occurs while the character is bloodied but also needs to have at least 1 hit point to take effect, so the healing occurs until the character is no longer bloodied or at 0 hit points or lower.  Yet it is a Stance which gives Regeneration while bloodied.
Another way to state this is when the character is in that stance, has his hit points in a range of 1 to his Bloodied Value inclusive, he gains heals 2+Con hit points at the start of his turn.


My question is about one of the uses of the heal skill :


Use Second Wind: Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her second wind (page 291) without the character having to spend an action. The character doesn't gain the defense bonuses normally granted by second wind.


Question : Can we use this on an unconscious target ?




Yes.  As while the unconscious character normally can't take any actions, making a DC 10 Heal check allows an unconscious ally to use their Second Wind because the unconscious character doesn't use/spend any action themselves.  Similar to various No Action powers that can work through Stun, Domination, and Unconscious, compared to Free Action ones which cannot.

Heirlooms of Mazgorax set (AV2 pg 134, 135).

Set Benefit with 4 or more Weilders states:


When a creature who wears or wields an item from this set would spend a healing surge, that creature can allow an ally who wears or weilds an item from his set to spend a healing surge instead.


Say a cleric were to use healing word on a fighter and roll such that the target would spend a surge and regain an additional 12 hit points. Using the benefit of the set, the fighter allows his ally a swordmage who is too far away from the cleric to spend the surge instead.



Okay!


Question 1. Who gets the additional 12 hit points from Healing Word?

  a. The fighter - as he was the target of the healing word.


  b. The swordmage - as he was the one who spent the surge and regained hit points.


  c. Neither - the fighter was the target of healing word but the additional healing doesn't occur because the fighter didn't spend a surge.



*A*.  Healing Word lets the Fighter spend a surge and regain xd6 additional HP.  He's giving up his surge-spending to someone else, but that doesn't change the "regain xd6 additional"


Question 2. Would this still work if the fighter had no surges remaining?

  a. Yes


  b. No


  c. A fighter out of surges ? Seriously ?



*A*.  When you get to spend a surge but have no surges, you regain 1HP - so there's nothing stopping the Cleric from dropping Healing Word on the Fighter.  And since the fighter "gets to spend a surge", he can pass that surge along.


Question 3. What the heck is the swordmage doing so far away from the Cleric, doesn't he know NOT to split the party ?

   a. No, He's an idiot.


   b. Yes, but the GM moved him over there cause the guy's a bit of a jerk.


   c. Who cares? Rocks fall, everyone dies!



*D*: Swordmages *love* being far away from the target they have Marked, since their Mark-punishment doesn't depend on being adjacent or even near.  This is valid tactical positioning!

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.


A Drow holding a sunrod uses his Cloud of Darkness.


Cloud of darkness produces a *gasp* cloud of Darkness (that for some reason or another isn't a zone... but that's another question) which blocks line of sight, but not line of effect. Since the sunrod which is inside the cloud of darkness still has line of effect, it would still illuminate the area within 20 squares of it, resulting in an area which is being illuminated by a light source from within a cloud of darkness.


Is this correct or incorrect ?


Is this right or is this seriously wrong?



This is both correct and hilariously wrong.


By which I mean, yeah, that's how it works - there's a nice bright area with a black blob in the middle, and the *light source* is inside the blob.  Because D&D really doesn't care about the details like that.


I would, however, totally not fault a GM who said "Uh, no, sunrod doesn't illuminate from inside the Cloud Of Darkness any more than it illuminates from inside a bag".


(Also:  Cloud isn't a zone to avoid the rules for Zones applying to it.  There are a bunch of things to boost zones, move zones, destroy zones, etc, and they don't want to apply 'em to Cloud Of Darkness.)

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.

1. Does Untyped ongoing damage stack? A monster I was running was hit with two different powers. One did 10 untyped ongoing damage, and the other did 5 untyped ongoing. I understand that it would have to save v. both, but would it take 15 damage at the start of its turn or just 10?


Actually, it would only have to save once.  When you take multiple ongoing damages *of the same type*, only the largest applies.  All the rest simply vanish.  Which means that he's taking Ongoing 10 (Save ends),  nothing else.


Now, if that had been ongoing 10 and ongoing 5 fire, he'd take 15 and have to save separately.


2. With the Fighter Paragon Path Dreadnought, the Unfailing Resources path feature is a free action. Could a character who is dominated use this feature to shrug off the domination? A dazed character may use free actions (domination includes the dazed condition), but domination seems to imply that you are not in control of your character... This is a very powerful feature in either case.


The key is in the wording of Dominated:  You're Dazed so you get only one action, and the dominator chooses "your action" in the context of the Daze.


Being Dominated doesn't restrict Free Actions in any way.  So yes, if you are Dominated Save Ends, you can spend 10 HP to end it as a free action.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.

I don't really understand how the "Boundless Endurance" power (Level 2 fighter utility) works, I understand the concept of regeneration but what I don't get is how long the effect lasts, does it last until he is at full hit points again, does it last until he is not bloodied, does the effect last the whole battle? Maybe i'm missing something but the description seems pretty vague, any help is appreciated.


You're probably missing the "Stance" keyword.  A Stance lasts the whole battle, or until you use a different Stance.


So, what Boundless Endurance does is put you into a Stance.  That Stance gives you "Regeneration 2+CON while Bloodied".  So, until the Stance ends, whenever you are Bloodied at the start of your turn you Regenerate 2+CON.


Is that clearer?

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.


1. Does Untyped ongoing damage stack? A monster I was running was hit with two different powers. One did 10 untyped ongoing damage, and the other did 5 untyped ongoing. I understand that it would have to save v. both, but would it take 15 damage at the start of its turn or just 10?


Actually, it would only have to save once.  When you take multiple ongoing damages *of the same type*, only the largest applies.  All the rest simply vanish.  Which means that he's taking Ongoing 10 (Save ends),  nothing else.


Now, if that had been ongoing 10 and ongoing 5 fire, he'd take 15 and have to save separately.




They don't stack, but nothing says the lower one just vanishes. You should take 10 untyped damage, but make two saving throws--one for the 10 ongoing and one for the 5 ongoing.

They don't stack, but nothing says the lower one just vanishes. You should take 10 untyped damage, but make two saving throws--one for the 10 ongoing and one for the 5 ongoing.


PHB1 278 "Ongoing Damage" : If you save versus an ongoing damage type, you stop taking ongoing damage of that type.  Multiple different types explicitly require separate saves.  Multiples of the same type lead to "only the higher number applies".


PHB1 279 "Saving Throws": A single save ends an effect.  Definition of effect:  "an effect is a single condition or one type of ongoing damage", unless it's a double-effect with a "save ends both".


Multiple ongoings of the same type take only one Save to end, regardless of number or sources of effects.


 


What's NOT clear:  Do penalties to one save apply to all of them?  If I do Ongoing 10 (save at -8 ends) with my Orbizard, and then the Fighter does Ongoing 15 (save ends), does the target have ongoing 15 (save ends) or ongoing 15 (save at -8 ends)?  Personally, I think only the number changes, not the save penalty, for the reason that 278 says "only the higher number applies", not "only the effect with the higher number applies", but I can see arguments both way - so I err on the side of the PCs.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.


They don't stack, but nothing says the lower one just vanishes. You should take 10 untyped damage, but make two saving throws--one for the 10 ongoing and one for the 5 ongoing.


PHB1 278 "Ongoing Damage" : If you save versus an ongoing damage type, you stop taking ongoing damage of that type.  Multiple different types explicitly require separate saves.  Multiples of the same type lead to "only the higher number applies".



There is no "type" in the first section. It says:
"Each round at the end of your turn,
make a saving throw (page 279) against ongoing
damage. If you succeed, you stop taking the
ongoing damage."


The other sections (as you pointed out) talk about different damage types and like damage types. Nothing in the like damage types say you do not make a saving throw against each. It only says the highest damage applies. The example goes on to show you that they are talking about taking damage, and not the effect itself. It says nothing about saving throws to override the general "1 save vs each effect."


PHB1 279 "Saving Throws": A single save ends an effect.  Definition of effect:  "an effect is a single condition or one type of ongoing damage", unless it's a double-effect with a "save ends both".

Multiple ongoings of the same type take only one Save to end, regardless of number or sources of effects.



That is not the definition of "effect." Those are examples.
The sentence you are using to get that defining is this:
"Sometimes an effect is a single condition or one type of ongoing damage."


It goes on to give another example:
"Another kind of effect is like an
imp’s hellish poison, which includes both ongoing
poison damage and a –2 penalty to Will defense. You
don’t make separate saving throws against the ongoing
poison damage and the Will defense penalty; you
make a single saving throw each round against the
hellish poison itself."


In this example, it labels the source as the effect, not the ongoing damage or the Will penalty. If you were to gain ongoing 5 poison damage from Nasty Bite and ongoing 5 poison damage from Vicious Sting, you would have to save against each effect.

What is not clear is whether or not you have to make a saving throw against each identical effect from the same power. Like if you had ongoing 5 poison damage from Nasty Bite and you were hit by Nasty Bite again. Math wise, you should save against each itteration so the monster that does ongoing damage doesn't fall farther behind (DPR) a monster of the same level and role that does not do ongoing damage.


------


Even the CS response that mvincent is using as rules clarification agrees that ongoing 10 damage and ongoing 5 damage requires two saving throws.


From the 1st page in this topic:


How do I make saving throws against the same ongoing effect from multiple enemies? Per CS (here): "We know it's a little unclear, so we spoke to the developers and here's how it works. If you have more than one *identical* effects on you, only one effect applies, and only 1 saving throw is require to shake them all. If the effects are even slightly different, (like if they have a different ongoing damage amount, or if you have a dazed effect as well as a (dazed + slowed) effect), then you make separate saves."


 


EDIT:
In addition to the above points, the PH has this to say about durations (PH 278):


Conditional Durations: These effects last until a
specified event occurs.
...
Save Ends: The effect ends when the target
makes a successful saving throw against it.
...
Overlapping Durations: If a target is affected by
multiple powers that have the same effect but end
at different times, the effect with the most time
remaining applies.

So, from this, we see that a "Save ends" effect lasts until it is saved (surprise). The overlapping duration rule does nothing in this case, because the effect that has the longest duration is not determined until the last successful save against that effect--the one that lasts the longest is the last one to be saved.



When you get to spend a surge but have no surges, you regain 1HP - so there's nothing stopping the Cleric from dropping Healing Word on the Fighter.  And since the fighter "gets to spend a surge", he can pass that surge along.




Unless I've missed something, you regain 1 hp when you're out of surges only if you're dying.  However, you're right as to the rest: there's nothing stopping a cleric from using Healing Word on someone without surges; it'll simply have no effect on them.

As for the item, I think a DM could validly rule that the Heirlooms of Mazgorazx benefit couldn't be used if you were out of surges (the power is triggered when the wearer "would spend a healing surge" not "is given the opportunity to spend a healing surge" and someone without surges would not be spending a surge), but since it could easily be argued either way, most DMs are likely to let it go.

resulting in an area which is being illuminated by a light source from within a cloud of darkness.

Is this correct or incorrect ?


From this thread's FAQ: "Do light spells illuminate magical darkness? No. Discussed here and here."
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