Rules you didn't realize

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oh yes, and if an Interrupt prevents an action from being completed (for example, knocking someone prone who is using a Move action, or removing the target of an attack from range of the attack), not only is the action prevented, but that action is also lost.

For example, if an melee attack is made and you interrupt teleport away, the attacker loses their standard action.

If an interrupt knocks a mover prone before they even get to move, they lose their move action.
Here's one I was shocked to discover.

Everything has at least 1 healing surge.  So monsters can take a second wind.

When GMing, I only use this when the PCs start to take down bigger enemies too fast.


Actually, that's not 100% acurrate. Having a healing surge is not the same as being able to take a Second Wind. Monsters and NPCs can't use Second Wind unless they have an ability that explicitly allows them to do so.



I stand corrected.  Page 258 of the Rules Compendium for anyone who wants to read up.  1 Surge per Tier, but still needs to have a power that allows them to use it.
As a DM, you can always add a class template to a monster which gives them Second Wind.  They still only have one healing surge, though.
#10

There are still full round actions, of a sort. This however is exclusively to the monk class (Full dicipline), which chooses one power, and makes use of it both for movement and for standard actions. A monk can't choose to use the move aspect of one power, and use another power for attack 

#55

A fighters Combat Challenge CAN interrupt a shift from an enemy, if that fighter also has Combat Superiority.


Though, something I want to know...


You can't stand up if your prone and immobilized. (True/False)
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#10

There are still full round actions, of a sort. This however is exclusively to the monk class (Full dicipline), which chooses one power, and makes use of it both for movement and for standard actions. A monk can't choose to use the move aspect of one power, and use another power for attack 



Not the same thing.  Close, but no cigar.  The Monk doesn't have to use the movement portion of the Full Discipline power if he chooses not to.  He can take a normal move action during a turn that he makes an attack with a Full Discipline power. 

#55

A fighters Combat Challenge CAN interrupt a shift from an enemy, if that fighter also has Combat Superiority.



It will interrupt the shift but will not stop the shift.  Combat Challenge does not stop movement.  And since Shifting doesn't normally provoke opportunity attacks, the Fighter is only able to damage the monster.  Now, if the fighter has a power which can prone the target and can use that power as a melee basic attack for immediate interrupts, *that* would cause the monster to stop if the Fighter hits the monster, since the monster would be knocked prone *before* it shifted out of its square. 

Though, something I want to know...


You can't stand up if your prone and immobilized. (True/False)



False.  Immobilize says that you cannot leave your square willingly.  Standing up is not leaving your square.
> A monk can't choose to use the move aspect of one power, and use another power
> for attack

Actually, he can, as long as the other power isn't a full discipline power.

> A monk can't choose to use the move aspect of one power, and use another power
> for attack

Actually, he can, as long as the other power isn't a full discipline power.



Or if he spends an action point, he can use another Full Discipline power.
#10

There are still full round actions, of a sort. This however is exclusively to the monk class (Full dicipline), which chooses one power, and makes use of it both for movement and for standard actions. A monk can't choose to use the move aspect of one power, and use another power for attack



No, wrong.  A Monk can totally use any other non-Full Discipline power to attack (or move), and he acn switch Full Disciplines with an action point.  Regardless, this is NOTHING LIKE a "full-round action" in the D20 sense.

#55

A fighters Combat Challenge CAN interrupt a shift from an enemy, if that fighter also has Combat Superiority.



No, wrong.  Combat Challenge will interrupt a shift, true, but you're referring to Combat Superiority and the ability to *stop* a move - and Combat Superiority can never, ever, ever apply to a Combat Challenge attack. Combat Challenge provides IMMEDIATE attacks.  Combat Superiority only applies to OPPORTUNITY attacks.

If you somehow got an OA when the enemy shifted, you can stop his shift with Combat Superiority, but that's rare and hard to do.  Combat Challenge attacks are really easy to get when an enemy shifts, but they're IAs, not OAs, and Combat Superiority doesn't apply.

You can't stand up if your prone and immobilized. (True/False)



False.  Nothing about "Immobilised" says you can't stand up, so you can.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
#3 - (PHB 59) Powers with a hit that also have an effect still get the benefit of their effect even if the power misses.

Q: What happens if you hit a natural 1? is natural 1 a regular miss? is it considered a "special (critical) miss"?
(if considered a critical miss, does it still trigger the effect)

We had a huge discussion about it the other day with my group.
A Nat 1 is a miss. Unless your GM has houseruled something, there are no critical misses in 4e.
#3 - (PHB 59) Powers with a hit that also have an effect still get the benefit of their effect even if the power misses.

Q: What happens if you hit a natural 1? is natural 1 a regular miss? is it considered a "special (critical) miss"?
(if considered a critical miss, does it still trigger the effect)

We had a huge discussion about it the other day with my group.


If you hit a natural 1, it is up to the DM to decide if it means anything beyond a normal miss. But yeah, if a power has "Hit: Blah blah blah; Effect: Blah Blah" then it still has the effect even on a miss. 
#3 - (PHB 59) Powers with a hit that also have an effect still get the benefit of their effect even if the power misses.

Q: What happens if you hit a natural 1? is natural 1 a regular miss? is it considered a "special (critical) miss"?
(if considered a critical miss, does it still trigger the effect)

We had a huge discussion about it the other day with my group.


If you hit a natural 1, it is up to the DM to decide if it means anything beyond a normal miss. But yeah, if a power has "Hit: Blah blah blah; Effect: Blah Blah" then it still has the effect even on a miss. 



Actually, natural 1 is just "automatic miss", and it is NOT "up to the DM to decide" if it means anything more.

DMs can add house rules for natural 1s, but that's houseruling.  By the rules, natural 1 means nothing more or less than "miss automatically".  Saying "it's up to the DM" implies that there's a DM's option choice in the existing rules, and there isn't, any more than there's a "a natural 20 automatically kills a PC" DM option.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
It used to be in the rules if you rolled a 1 'something bad happens up the DM to determine' but, obviously, because players kept whining about it a natural 1 is now only a miss.

If you're a good GM I'd recommend putting 'fumbles' back in the game. The GM usually decides the results of a fumble and Savage Worlds plays that mechanic how it was meant to be played. If you're looking for advice on how to 'house rule' a 1 fumble in 4e I'd check out that game system or an earlier edition.

I've found a trend where anything which is a 'disadvantage' to the player has been subtly worked out as the editions go by. It wouldn't suprise me very much if 1's were no longer misses in the future. In the original versions of the game player's had no access to the magic items in the DMG, fumbles were disastrous, you were lucky if your wizard had 3 hp and 1 good spell, and you couldn't pick your ability scores. Some of these changes I feel are improvements. It never hurts to pull out a copy of your old 1e books and play the game by the rules back then. It's like jumping into an icy lake. You lose so much power, and the DM gains so much control it's not even funny.

Don't get me wrong. I really like 4e, it's got some sweet stuff in it.

Hope that helps you guys out.

David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG a Free Roleplaying Game
David L. Dostaler Author, Challenger RPG (free)
It used to be in the rules if you rolled a 1 'something bad happens up the DM to determine' but, obviously, because players kept whining about it a natural 1 is now only a miss.



Actually, they realised that it was a bad rule that wasn't interesting and mostly wasn't fun, so they took it out.

It's like how spellcasters don't automatically win any more, and how level drain doesn't exist any more, and why "save or die" doesn't exist any more:  They were bad rules, that weren't fun.

If you're a good GM I'd recommend putting 'fumbles' back in the game.



Whereas if you're good at math, you'll realise that they happen way too often and disproportionately to PCs to be a good idea.

Savage Worlds plays that mechanic how it was meant to be played.



Notably,
1)  a roll in Savage Worlds coming up snake eyes only happens *at most* one in 24 times, and that's for an incompetent character.  A competent character gets that result once in 48 times, an excellent character once in 72 - and every single Savage Worlds character has access to bennies to let them say "hmm, that sucks, it didn't happen" and roll again. 
As compared to, say, D&D, where a natural 1 happens 5% of the time and most characters can't avoid it.  Those who can are almost always spending a Daily resource to do it.
2)  the effects of a fumble in Savage Worlds are specifically small and deliberately nonserious.

I've found a trend where anything which is a 'disadvantage' to the player has been subtly worked out as the editions go by.



"It turns out life and death on every single flat non-rerollable die roll, not getting to play, needing to rewrite your character multiple times a session, and failing embarassingly a huge percentage of the time, are not fun.  So we don't do those any more."

In the original versions of the game player's had no access to the magic items in the DMG, fumbles were disastrous, you were lucky if your wizard had 3 hp and 1 good spell, and you couldn't pick your ability scores.



Yes.  Shaving accidents often resulted in decapitation, the deadliest monster in the monster manual was a housecat, and Gary Gygax directly told people that they shouldn't bother naming their character until it was at least 9th level because there was no point in making that level of investment before then.  Oh, and getting to the "Gary thinks I should pick a name now" level required, according to him, a year of weekly play. 

These are, in fact, examples of why it was a bad system.

It never hurts to pull out a copy of your old 1e books and play the game by the rules back then. It's like jumping into an icy lake.



More like playing a slot machine:  no skill, no control, no strategy, no way to affect the odds.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
"Yes.  Shaving accidents often resulted in decapitation, the deadliest monster in the monster manual was a housecat, and Gary Gygax directly told people that they shouldn't bother naming their character until it was at least 9th level because there was no point in making that level of investment before then.  Oh, and getting to the "Gary thinks I should pick a name now" level required, according to him, a year of weekly play."

That's actually pretty epic. I didn't know he said that. Thanks, Lord of Weasels, I'll have to remember that for my games.

Seriously though. If you're a GM you want the players on their toes. Making the game harder for them or 'more random' just forces them to be more creative (an aspect sadly lacking in most games nowadays).

I would actually say the opposite of what you're saying happens when you increase the difficulty. Everyone likes a challenge. Everyone likes an underdog. The tougher the game is, the more challenging, the more fun. Most games nowadays have no chance for character death, there is no challenge, and nothing bad can happen to the characters under any but the most contrived of circumstances.

Sure, the "oops, you're dead" system of the old game was bad, but it was definately challenging to work with. If you have 3 hp and see an orc you're ten times more likely to carefully evaluate your next move. If you're playing 4e and see an orc, you kill it. Can you honestly remember the last time any of your party has run away from an orc, a goblin, or something like that?

Maybe no-one has any creativity left, but when I take away the 'fancy stuff' from my players they make the best of it and you'd be amazed to see how much more role-playing and creativity results.

I've known one player to make elaborate walls, catapults, and exploding flask of oil traps just to fight regular monsters he'd normally just kill in a micro-second in 4e and think nothing of it.

I myself tended to push people off of high places with my 1 hp wizard with 1 useless spell. I took on a 30th level mage and won. Obviously, I didn't rely on my character 'stats' alone to do that. I had to use my brain, my creativity, and my skills as a player.

I'm not trying to say 1e was better than 4e. I personally don't mind ignoring most fumbles. But whenever you cause 'problems' for the players it always forces creativity. If you put fumbles in the game it lets them role-play creatively and make the best of bad situations (like dropping a sword or tripping) instead of just trading off hp damage blow by blow.

Really, I don't care what system you're using, or which rules you want to play with. Every decision is a fine choice depending on your players. A good GM and good players can make the best of any game system and all good players and GMs should always be looking for ways to pump more creativity and role-playing into their games.

I just see fumbles as an "occassional" opportunity for that creativity. I'd ignore it nine times out of ten. It's always the tenth time, however, that people will remember for the rest of their lives. The time they dropped their sword in front of the villain and took him out with a good punch with only 1 hp left. Now 'that's' roleplaying.

David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG
David L. Dostaler Author, Challenger RPG (free)
The only "challenge" adding a fumble rule creates is players trying to figure out why AoE and multiattack builds are suddenly more incompetent than single-target and single attack builds.  (More dice rolls per turn = more fumbles...  And thus, challenging!)

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

Another challenge in writing a fumble system is that unless you have special features or items all a crit dose is max damage. A 1D4 weapon dose max damage 25% of the time anyway. In order to be fair and balanced fumbles should be just as common as that on any miss.

Yes there are many ways for adventurers to gain extra benefit from crits ( like high crit, or magic weapons but ) naked mechanics in a vacume max damage is all you get.

Fumbles then should only be a concern when there is an equivelent item or feature that provides extra penalty on a 1.

Examples would be the goblin fanatic from Warhammer Fantasy ( including Blood Bowl ) with the unweildy ball and chain that hits its self in the head, or a risky spell or weapon trick power that explodes in your face on a 1. ( wild sorcerers have such a class feature )
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
So, a couple pages back there was a short comment about item daily uses that fired off a storm of replies about the Rules Compendium and 4E Essentials where the limitation was allegedly removed?

1)  Is there a consolidated list of the rules changes?
2)  Are there still limits on item daily usage by tier?
So, a couple pages back there was a short comment about item daily uses that fired off a storm of replies about the Rules Compendium and 4E Essentials where the limitation was allegedly removed?

1)  Is there a consolidated list of the rules changes?

I certainly don't know of one.
2)  Are there still limits on item daily usage by tier?

The rule is in the Player's Handbook, but not  in any Essentials rule book.  Either way, you hardly notice it at low level as you're unlikely to have more than one item daily, anyway.
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Omission doesn't seem like a good justification for throwing out a PHB core rule...

I'm surprised so many are stating it as fact around here.  Was there another CS response or anything else to back this up other than  "It seems like it should have been in that paragraph, so it has therefore been removed!" ? 
Omission doesn't seem like a good justification for throwing out a PHB core rule...

I'm surprised so many are stating it as fact around here.  Was there another CS response or anything else to back this up other than  "It seems like it should have been in that paragraph, so it has therefore been removed!" ? 



The designers said, outright, repeatedly, in Dragon magazine and in their official blogs and in their announcements, that that rule was removed from the Compendium because they wanted to remove it from the game.  The replacement is the item rarity rules, which prevent you from buying a ton of low-level highly-useful-Daily items by making it impossible to buy or make items that have useful Dailies.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
So instead of a rule to prevent abuse (by limiting usage in a clearly understood way), we now have no rule aside from the DM saying "No" to prevent players from crafting 25 wondrous items that are 10+ levels below them with their disposable income?  Saying "you can't buy that" is irrelevant when anyone can be a Ritual Caster and get Enchant Magic Item.

This really doesn't seem well thought out...

Every player will be insane to not stock up on 5 pearls of power.  Carry 4-5 Flutes of the Dancing Satyr and enable free shifting for the whole party for whole encounters...

 
So instead of a rule to prevent abuse (by limiting usage in a clearly understood way), we now have no rule aside from the DM saying "No" to prevent players from crafting 25 wondrous items that are 10+ levels below them with their disposable income?   



No, we have the item rarity rules, which are clearly understood and which also prevent the abuse.  In a way that is easier to explain and easier to track than Daily Item Powers Per Day was.

Saying "you can't buy that" is irrelevant when anyone can be a Ritual Caster and get Enchant Magic Item. 



Enchant Magic Item can only make Common items.  It cannot make Uncommon or Rare items.

This really doesn't seem well thought out...



That's a different argument.  A side effect of the rarity rules is to heavily limit the variety available.  Worse, some of the most powerful (and least interesting) items are Common, which makes them even mroe ubiquitous - but there's less tracking.

Every player will be insane to not stock up on 5 pearls of power.  Carry 4-5 Flutes of the Dancing Satyr and enable free shifting for the whole party for whole encounters...



Pearl of Power - Uncommon
Flute of the Dancing Satyr - Uncommon

Neither one can be made with Enchant Magic Item, or purchased.  So players will not be "insane to not stock up", they will be unable to stock up.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.


Enchant Magic Item can only make Common items.  It cannot make Uncommon or Rare items.





Where you get this from?  From the Compendium:

Enchant Magic Item:

You touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item of your level or lower. The ritual’s component cost is equal to the price of the magic item you create. Alternatively, you can use the ritual to upgrade a common, uncommon, or rare item to a more powerful version of the item that is 5 levels higher.

 
sadly, as good a job as it does, the Compendium does not provide the complete or most current rules.  

a good place to get the info you seek is in the Dragon 390 article explaining the new rarity rules, specifically "Like rare items, uncommon items must be found. They are seldomly up for sale and few people know how to craft them." (emphasis mine)

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Enchant Magic Item can only make Common items.  It cannot make Uncommon or Rare items.





Where you get this from?  From the Compendium:

Enchant Magic Item:

You touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item of your level or lower. The ritual’s component cost is equal to the price of the magic item you create. Alternatively, you can use the ritual to upgrade a common, uncommon, or rare item to a more powerful version of the item that is 5 levels higher.



Either they've changed it *back* since I last looked, or the updates doc (and the Compendium) are out of date (which is super-common with post-Essentials rules changes), or the ritual really has never been changed.

It doesn't matter, though - Rules Compendium pg 277, explaining item rarity, says outright that Uncommon items cannot be purchased or crafted by PCs.  (And I can show you article after article from the writers of the game, in official rules documents, explaining how uncommon+ items can not be made or purchased by PCs.)

If Enchant Magic Item hasn't actually been updated to make it clear, that's funny, and that should be fixed because it's confusing - but the rules on creating magic items say uncommons can't be created, and Enchant Magic Item doesn't contain a specific exception to allow it to break that general rule.  It *does* have a specific exception to allow it to upgrade Uncommons and Rares.

In the mean time, you've seen exactly why "unlimited low-level items" cause a problem.  You described the problem yourself.  The old system (limiting daily item powers per day) solved the general case of "cheap dailies", while failing on per-Encounter powers and requiring more tracking.  The new system solves both, but at the cost of a greatly decreased variety of items the players can choose from.

It's also worth noting that LFR uses yet another third system:  A character can have no more than one magic item per level, no more than one Rare item, and no more than one of any enchantment.  But LFR is a heavily gameplay-centric environment - they don't particularly care if a rule makes sense inside the game world, they care that it is balanced and paperwork-easy for a pickup game with strangers.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
It's also worth noting that LFR uses yet another third system:  A character can have no more than one magic item per level, no more than one Rare item, and no more than one of any enchantment.  But LFR is a heavily gameplay-centric environment - they don't particularly care if a rule makes sense inside the game world, they care that it is balanced and paperwork-easy for a pickup game with strangers.



Actually, LFR lets you have no more than one *uncommon* item per your level (without some story award saying otherwise) and only one rare per tier.  However, most of the rare items which have been released in LFR are self-levelling items, so if you get a rare weapon, you won't have to worry about upgrading it for each new plus (at level 16 or 21, for instance.) 
It's also worth noting that LFR uses yet another third system:  A character can have no more than one magic item per level, no more than one Rare item, and no more than one of any enchantment.  But LFR is a heavily gameplay-centric environment - they don't particularly care if a rule makes sense inside the game world, they care that it is balanced and paperwork-easy for a pickup game with strangers.



Actually, LFR lets you have no more than one *uncommon* item per your level (without some story award saying otherwise) and only one rare per tier.  However, most of the rare items which have been released in LFR are self-levelling items, so if you get a rare weapon, you won't have to worry about upgrading it for each new plus (at level 16 or 21, for instance.) 



They must have changed the rules since I gave it a shot - used to be, you could only keep one item per level, no matter how many adventures you went on or what you used during play.  That was before rarity, though.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
It's also worth noting that LFR uses yet another third system:  A character can have no more than one magic item per level, no more than one Rare item, and no more than one of any enchantment.  But LFR is a heavily gameplay-centric environment - they don't particularly care if a rule makes sense inside the game world, they care that it is balanced and paperwork-easy for a pickup game with strangers.



Actually, LFR lets you have no more than one *uncommon* item per your level (without some story award saying otherwise) and only one rare per tier.  However, most of the rare items which have been released in LFR are self-levelling items, so if you get a rare weapon, you won't have to worry about upgrading it for each new plus (at level 16 or 21, for instance.) 



They must have changed the rules since I gave it a shot - used to be, you could only keep one item per level, no matter how many adventures you went on or what you used during play.  That was before rarity, though.



You can only pick one found item per level.  Yes.  But if you have the gold for it, you can buy as many common items as you can afford.  So, yes.  Only one found magic item per level. 
I have the sense the system is screwed up past the point of anything sensible...best course is to keep the old item daily restrictions.  It's far preferable in my opinion than an artifical "You discovered a glowing amulet in the dragon's horde!.  Oh...you already found an item this level?  That sucks...I guess you'll just have to give it away".

Ridiculous. 
I have the sense the system is screwed up past the point of anything sensible...best course is to keep the old item daily restrictions.  It's far preferable in my opinion than an artifical "You discovered a glowing amulet in the dragon's horde!.  Oh...you already found an item this level?  That sucks...I guess you'll just have to give it away".

Ridiculous. 



Well, the "one found magic item per level" has been in place since the beginning of LFR.  It's a way to keep PCs from getting lots of magic items and then selling off the extras for lots of gold.  One of the treasure bundles you can pick regardless of how many times you've taken it is "More gold" which is usually a generous portion size of gold for your level.  If you take that a few times, you have a lot of gold, which is useless unless you like common items or rituals (or alchemical items, which LFR has ruled those are all common except for a select few from MME, I believe.)
So me shifting Zero squares qualifies as the EFFECT happening...

You might have a bonus to shifting from a Feat, another Power or a Magic Item.



And there is feats and gears wich gives you an extra shift distance of 1 or more, so you could always shift a minimum of 1 even on a miss.

I have the sense the system is screwed up past the point of anything sensible...best course is to keep the old item daily restrictions.  It's far preferable in my opinion than an artifical "You discovered a glowing amulet in the dragon's horde!.  Oh...you already found an item this level?  That sucks...I guess you'll just have to give it away".

Ridiculous. 



Well, the "one found magic item per level" has been in place since the beginning of LFR.  It's a way to keep PCs from getting lots of magic items and then selling off the extras for lots of gold.  One of the treasure bundles you can pick regardless of how many times you've taken it is "More gold" which is usually a generous portion size of gold for your level.  If you take that a few times, you have a lot of gold, which is useless unless you like common items or rituals (or alchemical items, which LFR has ruled those are all common except for a select few from MME, I believe.)



Common items are useful- sometimes very useful, if you know what I mean (and you should).

They just usually aren't as useful as the rarer items.
So instead of a rule to prevent abuse (by limiting usage in a clearly understood way), we now have no rule aside from the DM saying "No" to prevent players from crafting 25 wondrous items that are 10+ levels below them with their disposable income?  Saying "you can't buy that" is irrelevant when anyone can be a Ritual Caster and get Enchant Magic Item.

This really doesn't seem well thought out...

Every player will be insane to not stock up on 5 pearls of power.  Carry 4-5 Flutes of the Dancing Satyr and enable free shifting for the whole party for whole encounters...

 

Rarity actually does prevent it. If you use rarity (which you shouldn't). Your assumptions are wrong. ^.^

Also many rules were changed by omission via the RC. Was completely intentional, do you have any idea how confusing it would be to add another 25 pages to the RC which basically consisted of "So this rule that you probably don't know about because you picked up the RC as the definitive rules source is no longer a rule. Have a nice day."
I have the sense the system is screwed up past the point of anything sensible...



No, it really isn't.  Item rarity works just fine, if you use it - at the cost of being more work to keep the flow of interesting stuff coming, because the things players can buy on their own is very limited.  So it's got a downside.

best course is to keep the old item daily restrictions. 



That's a perfectly fair option, which doesn't address the number of cheap ENCOUNTER powers available.  So you've still got the "buy 10 of this item!" problem, just with different items.

It's far preferable in my opinion than an artifical "You discovered a glowing amulet in the dragon's horde!.  Oh...you already found an item this level?  That sucks...I guess you'll just have to give it away".

Ridiculous. 



Yes, but that's the LIVING FORGOTTEN REALMS rule.  Pickup D&D, with strangers.  Which is why nobody in a real game actually uses it.

Using rarity means one problem (prevalence of overpowerful extremely-low-level items) disappears and another (boring choices for buy/make) appears.  Using Daily Item Powers fixes the Golf Bag Full Of Wands problem, but leaves you with the same problem with Encounter powers and a related problem of a huge SELECTION of powerful dailies even if you can't use them all.

Neither of these is "screwed up past the point of anything sensible."  LFR's solution is, but that's because it's LFR:  Pickup D&D with strangers will ALWAYS be "screwed up past the point of anything sensible" and this rule just exists to make sure it stays playable.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Thanks for the sensible and well-written reply LoW.  My summary of your post breaks it down to:  

"One rule exists for a set of circumstances (LFR) that probably don't apply to you.

One was the original RAW.  

Both rules suck because they leave significant issues in the balance between magic item power (based on number of items) and gameplay fun"


The other mechanism I'm seeing employed is to accept the removal of the daily item usage limit and ignore item rarity.  The result is that people CAN fill their bags of holding with cheap items that are 1/day each.  At the end of the day, they still need to take actions to draw them out to use them.  It consumes party resources to get these items made.  It hasn't broken the game yet and is pretty fun to play, so far. 
Thanks for the sensible and well-written reply LoW.  My summary of your post breaks it down to:  

"One rule exists for a set of circumstances (LFR) that probably don't apply to you.

One was the original RAW.  

Both rules suck because they leave significant issues in the balance between magic item power (based on number of items) and gameplay fun"



Not quite.  Both rules have a downside - neither one really "sucks".  The Dailies-items-per-day rule was arcane and required extra tracking in a way that wasn't really fun, and it severely limited the available design space for useful non-daily items.  The Rarity rules eliminate the tracking *and* open the available options for what an item can do immensely, as well as creating a space for items that are more powerful, or whose power is harder to quantify - at the cost of making the available pick-your-own items less interesting.

The other mechanism I'm seeing employed is to accept the removal of the daily item usage limit and ignore item rarity.  The result is that people CAN fill their bags of holding with cheap items that are 1/day each.  At the end of the day, they still need to take actions to draw them out to use them.  It consumes party resources to get these items made.  It hasn't broken the game yet and is pretty fun to play, so far. 



Except it doesn't "cost party resources" to make them.  Not significantly, not once you level up more.  For the cost of a single L20 item, you can buy *125* L5 items.  Buying a low-level item is a rounding error of cash for a party 15 levels up from it.  And it usually doesn't consume the actions of anyone who wants to abuse it - some of the nastiest items don't have to be wielded, and for others, the mechanisms to get rid of the action cost are either cheap or included in something else they wanted to do anyway.

The solution we've had that works is telling the players *not to load up on items for all occasions*.  "Don't abuse it" solves all problems, including the one you're likely to run into:  Since you've said it's totally legal and okay as long as you can pay for it, you've defined the behaviour as "not abuse"

Of course, the solution that works for my group isn't going to work as a general rule, because it assumes good-faith adult actors with a similar definition of "abuse".
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
hi im new to d & d if my 1[w] is 1d10+8 and the power add str mod +5 do i at it all up and that is my dmg







































hi im new to d & d if my 1[w] is 1d10+8 and the power add str mod +5 do i at it all up and that is my dmg



There no such thing as "my 1W is 1d10+8".  1W is always a die roll, ranging from 1d4 to 2d8.  Yours is "1d10".  Whenever you roll weapon damage, you add some modifiers - Enhancement bonus from a magic weapon, Feat bonus from Weapon Focus, stat bonus if the power you're using adds a stat bonus, etc.

Most likely, your "1d10+8" already includes your Strength bonus, and is the result calculated for a specific power.

What's your class, level, and Feats?  From that, we can explain the calculations in more detail.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Hello all. I was making an archer ranger on the character builder and was buying magic items. I was wondering if you add the enhancement bonus from magic ammunition (for example, +5 quarrel of biting) and the enhancement bonus from whatever weapon you are firing out of (for example, +5 magic longbow) to attack rolls. I know that bonuses from the same source don't normally stack but it seems odd to me that WotC would give magic ammunition enhancement bonuses when you'll never find a level 25 archer ranger firing out of a mundane bow. They are more likely to be using a weapon with a plus six enhancement bonus, a bonus that would make the enhancement on magic ammunition null. Any response will help and thanks in advance.