Rules you didn't realize

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"Sleep depravity", by the way, makes it sound like you're asking about molesting people in their (or perhaps, your) sleep. The word you want is deprivation.

Sorry, I keep seeing it being quoted over and over and it just bugs me.

Aah my bad, english isn't my native language.
Well there seems to be no rules about it, so I guess I'll houserule it if it comes up.
I am White/Green
For us (or at least for me) this wasn't so much a question of falling back on 3.5 as confusion regarding what counted as dice "normally rolled", since both SA and HQ are "once per turn" effects that you choose when to trigger. Would you "normally" roll the sneak attack dice on the attack you just got a crit on? Perhaps not, if I was using a multi-target attack and there was a more important target to come.

Anyway, Now I Know!

If you can roll it without getting a crit, then it's 'dice normally rolled'.

If you can only roll it when getting a crit, then it's not.

Given that you're generally going to be making one attack a round (even if it hits multiple targets), using HQ/SA/WC on someone you got a crit on makes the most tactical sense... unless, of course, it's a minion.
Unless someone can correct this, I think I have #25:
You do not need to hold a weapon in order to obtain combat advantage through a flank. You can be armed or unarmed. (PHB 285)

Yes, but it's even more than that ... if you look at the definition of unarmed, then it include "punch, kick, elbow, knee or even head butt" (p.216)

So, you could have your hands tied behind your back, or both holding implements, or whatever (e.g. one implement and one healing potion).

Under flanking it does mention "is able to attack", but in the end that only restricts you if you are stunned, unconscious, or similarly prevented from attacking.
I just ran across another one. Seeing as there we two posts at the same time for #25, I just discovered:

#27: Int 13 is a pre-requisite for Linguist. If you don't have Int 13, there is no way (that I can see) to learn additional languages.

Sly
#28: Most big creatures (including dragons and such) do *not* have threatening reach... meaning no AO's unless you are adjacent to them.
Perhaps not, if I was using a multi-target attack and there was a more important target to come.

I understand what you are saying, but there probably isn't any way to verify what you "would have done in other circumstances" (i.e. if you hadn't rolled the crit then you wouldn't have choosen sneak attack).

In practice, I presume a player would want to check the more important target first, so that if they miss they can still use their SA on a less important target. i.e. even ignoring crits it would suck if you waited for the more important target and then missed them.

So, if you already have used your SA, then roll a crit afterwards, there is no ambiguity (SA is already used up, so not relevant).

[Of course, a GM may designate the order by pointing to targets in sequence to make this easy to track, but you could probably still ask to do the important target first.]
So me shifting Zero squares qualifies as the EFFECT happening...


You might have a bonus to shifting from a Feat, another Power or a Magic Item.
Back to potions:


First,sorry for my bad English.

If We take a TWF ranger or Two-handed weapon fighter or a sword+heavy shield paladin they will have to spend an "full round" to drink a potion


1-minor to sheathe a weapon
2-minor do pick a potion
3-minor to drink a potion

With the quick draw feat will be still 2 minor actions and you will not have a weapon with you or will be just one (TWF ranger).

So the quick draw is a good feat for anybody.

Am I right?
I understand what you are saying, but there probably isn't any way to verify what you "would have done in other circumstances" (i.e. if you hadn't rolled the crit then you wouldn't have choosen sneak attack).

The rules explicitly allow you to designate quarry damage after all attacks are rolled, and SA damage after damage is rolled. But it's still maximised if you crit the chosen target.
If We take a TWF ranger or Two-handed weapon fighter or a sword+heavy shield paladin they will have to spend an "full round" to drink a potion

Yep, it works. With quickdraw you can attack and use potion (without quickdraw you can't attack):

1. Attack with weapon (standard)
2. Sheath weapon (minor)
3. Drink potion (minor) -- with quickdraw, drawing the potion is part of the action to use it.

Also, even though you have sheathed your weapon you could still make an opportunity attack with it as quickdraw again means re-drawing your weapon is part of the action of using it. (Think samuri draw and strike in one move type action) -- you would also need to drop the empty potion as a free action.

Note that a 2-hand weapon user can just change their grip to holding their weapon, instead of wielding it, although there aren't any specific rules on changing hands. Even without quickdraw, I would treat this as:

1. Attack with two-handed category weapon (standard)
2. Drop one hand from weapon (free)
3. Draw potion (minor)
4. Drink potion (minor)

Next round I would use a Draw weapon (minor) action to again wield the weapon. As pointed out above even when not holding the weapon (properly) you still flank, and can make OAs, by headbutting, for example.

And, to add another one, after re-reading flanking:

#29: You can flank, and even gain combat advantage for attacks, with a ranged weapon (or any attack). You still need to be adjacent to the target (so usually making the ranged or area attack would provoke), but still useful to know if there is something you really, really need CA for with a ranged or area attack.


EDIT: Thanks Sillen for the rule on sheathe a weapon... I didn't have my books to check. It wasn't material for the actions anwyay.
PHB p.289
Draw or sheathe a weapon is listed under minor actions.
Thus putting your sword in your belt is not a move action.

You can substitute your move or standard action though to get an extra minor action (PHB p.268)
I am White/Green
OK first of all great thread, except the rediculous re-occuring extended rest discussion.

Now for the TWF ranger just do this: free action drop one weapon, minor draw potion, minor drink potion, and standard make an attack with one weapon. Next round draw a dagger/ pick up weapon on floor or use a different attack or something like that.

For the Sleep depravation issue this is all I could find PHB page 263.

You need at least 6 hours of sleep every day to keep
functioning at your best. If, at the end of an extended
rest, you haven’t slept at least 6 hours in the last 24, you
gain no benefit from that extended rest.

wich you can see that that is a big penalty to any PC. AND for PCs going without sleep i suggest use the Endurance Skill.

PHB 184
Endurance (Constitution)
Armor Check Penalty
Make an Endurance check to stave off ill effects and to
push yourself beyond normal physical limits.

failure could be lose a healing surge etc etc.
OK #30

Did you know that Twin strike damage does not get modified by any abilities i.e. STR or DEX

And when i realized this i was glad cus the Ranger in the party im DMing is just slaying bad guys like mad.

Twin Strike Ranger Attack 1
If the first attack doesn’t kill it, the second one might.
At-Will Martial,Weapon
Standard Action Melee or Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a
ranged weapon.
Targets: One or two creatures
Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; main weapon and off-hand
weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged), two attacks
Hit: 1[W] damage per attack.
Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.
# 31 Ok heres another one, Tactics test:

Situation:Your PC is alone and is 3 squares away from 2 kobold minions nobody is surprised and its the 3rd round of combat, its their turn and they both go before you, in the initiative order.

Can both of them flank you and both get combat advantage?

Yes they can. ;)

Who knows the answer?
Answer DMG 38

Monsters can also
ready within their turn without shifting their place
in the initiative order. For example, the orc raiders
can both move into a flanking position and then both
attack with combat advantage. Technically, the first
one to move would have to ready its attack until the
other one moved into position, but it all works out the
same in the end.
Basically, yes, i generally treat all monsters of type X as moving 'at the same time' unless i'm deliberately trying to make a scene of chaos and incohesion.

And nice to know i misunderstood that whole critical hit thing, i owe a couple of my players some beanies.
#32

Did you know that an elf PC with Fast runner feat and using his Action point can Run 33 squares in one round.
#32 Did you know that an elf PC with Fast runner feat and using his Action point can Run 33 squares in one round.

33 x 5 = 165 feet = 50 m

1 round = 6 seconds (right? 10 r = 1 minute?)

The world record for 100m is < 10 seconds (so either the first or second 50 m is < 5 secs) ... and the Elf can't spend an AP for the second round.

I guess olympic runners are faster.

Did I get that right?
OK #30 Did you know that Twin strike damage does not get modified by any abilities i.e. STR or DEX

Yep, no STR or DEX.

But note you still get enhancement bonus (weapon), feat bonus (e.g. racial), and other bonuses. You also get two chances to do quarry damage.

I think the char op board still has twin strike as one of the most powerful striker (damaging) at-wills.
OFF: Could you guys sticky this thread?
ON:
1/2 damage. And yes, 1/2 of 1 is 0. So that weakened fighter who used careful attack (don't ask why) and rolled a 1 did 0 damage.

Yet another reason careful attack isn't worth it.../sigh

TBP

Careful Attack is a ranger at-will attack power.

So, you as a player were making tactically unsound decisions and blaming your poor results on the powers?

Remember your Careful Attack when you come across higher level minions, like the Troglodyte Warrior (Level 12 Minion) or Legion Devil Veteran (Level 16 Minion). When dealing with minions, hitting is more important than damage dealt.
Cleave is better than Sure Strike for minion-clearing; being able to pop two at once is a much bigger gain than +2 to hit.
I highly endorse this thread. I think it would be helpful to make a compiled list in the first post, of course making sure that all of them are correct. I also agree that this should be stickied and displayed prominently in the forum. If it becomes the resource I believe it could, I believe it should also be linked to in every forum's stickies.

I'd like to open up #25 once more and add in that it's not so much 'ability to attack' as it is 'ability to make an OA'.
If you’re affected by an effect that prevents you from
taking opportunity actions, you don’t flank.

The things that do this all say that they do this; This includes dazed and surprised. (and things that deny any actions at all, like stunned, petrified, or unconscious)
Ok, I have a few.

#33: Temporary hit points don't stack. The first couple of gaming sessions under 4th edition my Paladin had almost as many temp hit points each encounter as he did normal hit points. I was a little disappointed when I found out they don't actually stack.

#34: You can only use an Immediate Interrupt once per Round. Some of the Kobolds we faced were ridiculously hard to kill until we figured this one out.

#35: You can not use an Immediate Interrupt on your own turn. Our Wizard was a little disappointed that he couldn't activate Shield in response to an OA when he cast Thunderwave with two Kobolds in front of him. :D

#36: You can only use one Channel Divinity power during an encounter, regardless of how many you know.

That's all I can think of at the moment.
OK #30

Did you know that Twin strike damage does not get modified by any abilities i.e. STR or DEX

And when i realized this i was glad cus the Ranger in the party im DMing is just slaying bad guys like mad.

Twin Strike Ranger Attack 1
If the first attack doesn’t kill it, the second one might.
At-Will Martial,Weapon
Standard Action Melee or Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a
ranged weapon.
Targets: One or two creatures
Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; main weapon and off-hand
weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged), two attacks
Hit: 1[W] damage per attack.
Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.

I Was about to post this as i just remeberd a few rules i didnt relise within the first 5 days of playing.
#35: You can not use an Immediate Interrupt on your own turn. Our Wizard was a little disappointed that he couldn't activate Shield in response to an OA when he cast Thunderwave with two Kobolds in front of him. :D

Thunderwave is a close blast, and as such does not provoke OA from enemies. Only "Ranged" or "Area" attacks provoke. (p290, PHB)
True players may not take extended rest without 12 hours inbetween, But dosnt mean they cant stop and play poker with each other then move on to the next room after 12 hours have gone by.

Which some of my players have done ... And we used it alot in the H2 Adventure the whole thuder spire thing, Thus we had much easyer time, Becouse we played poker for 12 + hours before "Teleporting" to the next area, Thus all dailys and encounters and such was there.


37) The Human perservances allso adds to death saving throws. thought it only gave to Saves


Now this one is new and is acouly a question

QUEST XP : Give out to each player that amount of Divide it among the number of players? I Beleve each player but one buddie thinks its Divided to each person.
Thunderwave is a close blast, and as such does not provoke OA from enemies. Only "Ranged" or "Area" attacks provoke. (p290, PHB)

I don't have my PHB with me, but I swear I read somewhere that close blast falls under "Area" attacks, as does close burst. I'll try to remember to look for it tonight when I get home.
I don't have my PHB with me, but I swear I read somewhere that close blast falls under "Area" attacks, as does close burst. I'll try to remember to look for it tonight when I get home.

PHB p56 if you want to check... "Close" is one of the 4 attack types and as such would not fall under any other category. They are separate and distinct.

Following a power’s action type on the same line is the
power’s attack type and its range. The four attack types
are melee, ranged, close, and area. Each of these
attack types (fully described in Chapter 9) has rules
for range and targeting.

Even though these terms are called “attack types,”
they apply to utility powers as well as attack powers.

QUEST XP : Give out to each player that amount of Divide it among the number of players? I Beleve each player but one buddie thinks its Divided to each person.

You're correct, quest xp is given to each PC not divided.
Ok, I have a few.#34: You can only use an Immediate Interrupt once per Round. Some of the Kobolds we faced were ridiculously hard to kill until we figured this one out.

Oooaww. That completely ruins my 'retreating Dragonshield Wall', damn rules.


#35: You can not use an Immediate Interrupt on your own turn. Our Wizard was a little disappointed that he couldn't activate Shield in response to an OA when he cast Thunderwave with two Kobolds in front of him. :D

Thunderwave is a close attack, it doesn't provoke OA's. If you're making OA's on your Wizard when he uses Thunderwave, you owe him alot of beanies.

37) The Human perservances allso adds to death saving throws. thought it only gave to Saves

Human perseverance adds to all Saving Thows. A Death Saving Throw is still a Saving Throw.

There is only one 'kind' of Saving Throw in 4E, and that is a Saving Throw. Some Saving Throws mean different things when you succeed or fail, but all Saving Throws are Saving Throws, and all succeed on a 10.
Thunderwave is a close attack, it doesn't provoke OA's. If you're making OA's on your Wizard when he uses Thunderwave, you owe him alot of beanies.

Hmm, well I'll reread it tonight. Assuming you guys are correct then we definitely owe him a lot of beanies.

This kind of disturbs me though, because if "Close" attacks don't generate OA's then what is the point behind abilities and feats that only come into effect when you make an OA? It's incredibly easy, after all, to avoid provoking OA's completely. I don't know how it has gone in your games, but in ours OA's are a very rare event. We started playing 4th two weeks after the rules came out and in that time I think there have been a total of 4 OA's generated by bad guys and maybe 10 generated by the party and that's counting those generated by close attacks. So if you remove the ones generated from close attacks then it's probably more like 2 and 4. And to be honest, even those could probably have been avoided.
I think the point is to try to put your opponents into a position where they have to choose between exposing themselves to an OA or something equally bad - making a sub-optimal attack or staying in a situation where they are easily attacked, for example.
You're correct, quest xp is given to each PC not divided.

OMFG!!!! You're right!!

I owe my players beaucoup XP! At first I thought you were wrong, and went to look it up. In so doing, I found you to be absolutely correct!!

Page 122 of the DMG says so: "When a group of characters completes a 10th-level major quest, each individual in the group gets 500 XP, regardless of how many characters are in the group."

Looks like we all have things that we can learn from each other!

TBP
You're not really *meant* to be taking a lot of OAs. Much of their effectiveness lies in the fact that the threat of provoking one will often cause someone to change their tactics, or at least not perform an action that they otherwise would, so as not to provoke one.

Feats and such that make OAs more dangerous reinforce this effect - a really dangerous OA is an even bigger disincentive for the person to provoke one.
PHB p56 if you want to check... "Close" is one of the 4 attack types and as such would not fall under any other category. They are separate and distinct.

Yeah, the terminology there is very unfortunate. Ranged attacks are attacks made at range, unless they are bursts in which case they are area attacks, and attacks covering areas are area attacks only if they have range; if they don't they are close attacks and not area attacks and even though some close attacks are used to target a single target at range it is not a ranged attack.
This kind of disturbs me though, because if "Close" attacks don't generate OA's then what is the point behind abilities and feats that only come into effect when you make an OA? It's incredibly easy, after all, to avoid provoking OA's completely. I don't know how it has gone in your games, but in ours OA's are a very rare event. We started playing 4th two weeks after the rules came out and in that time I think there have been a total of 4 OA's generated by bad guys and maybe 10 generated by the party and that's counting those generated by close attacks. So if you remove the ones generated from close attacks then it's probably more like 2 and 4. And to be honest, even those could probably have been avoided.

Generally the threat of an OA should be the important thing; i.e. a monster won't pass the fighter to get to the wizard in the back because of the threat of an OA, and an artillery foe will be afraid to use his powerful ranged attacks because someone's right on top of them. Remember that all Ranged and Area attacks still provoke, not to mention most movement.
My players were very disappointed with this one :

#38: You get a saving throw to avoid forced movement into hindering terrain.
I think the point is to try to put your opponents into a position where they have to choose between exposing themselves to an OA or something equally bad - making a sub-optimal attack or staying in a situation where they are easily attacked, for example.

My point though, is that it is extremely easy to avoid OA's and the 'equally bad' options you pointed out. Unless the DM is playing the bad guys as if they were unintelligent then they are going to work just as hard as the players to avoid situations that give them little to no option. They are going to shift away from the guy that would get an OA before doing anything that would provoke it (granted, if it's a fighter they shift away from then he's going to get his Combat Challenge attack). As I said before, in the time my group has been playing 4th edition the number of OA's have been very limited.
Generally the threat of an OA should be the important thing; i.e. a monster won't pass the fighter to get to the wizard in the back because of the threat of an OA, and an artillery foe will be afraid to use his powerful ranged attacks because someone's right on top of them. Remember that all Ranged and Area attacks still provoke, not to mention most movement.

Except Shifting doesn't provoke (except for the Fighter's Combat Challenge), meaning the artillery foe can shift out of reach of the guy right next to him and then fire away. As for 'passing the fighter to get to the wizard in the back' it's actually very easy to run far enough around the fighter to get to the wizard without provoking OA's. Unless, of course, you have multiple fighters standing around the wizard protecting him from all sides which is rarely the case in my experience.

My point is that there are so few things that provoke OA's that I'm surprised that so many abilities and feats are dependent on them.
Except Shifting doesn't provoke (except for the Fighter's Combat Challenge), meaning the artillery foe can shift out of reach of the guy right next to him and then fire away. As for 'passing the fighter to get to the wizard in the back' it's actually very easy to run far enough around the fighter to get to the wizard without provoking OA's. Unless, of course, you have multiple fighters standing around the wizard protecting him from all sides which is rarely the case in my experience.

That situation still forces a foe to shift where he could otherwise spend his movement getting into a better position. He doesn't really have the chance to even try to escape his oppressor or move to get a good shot unless he sacrifices his attack. As well, a fighter simply has to get adjacent to an enemy to keep him from moving. Even if the foe chooses to provoke, he might not escape, due to Combat Superiority.

Either way, OAs are very influential... though still not the most important aspect of combat. All those extra feats are only useful for someone who really wants to prove a hindrance to foes.