When is an enhancement bonus NOT added to a damage roll?

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Nearly all power descriptions that deal damage read "X[W] + Ability modifier" (e.g. "3[W] + Strength modifier"), but that usually leaves out feat, enhancement, and other damage bonuses.

Here is when the PHB specifically tells us how to add enhancement bonuses:

PHB, p225 wrote:
Magic weapons and implements grant their enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls only when you use powers delivered through the weapon or the implement (or directly from the weapon or the implement, for items that have attack powers).

Does this effectively mean "only add enhancement bonuses when the power has a weapon or implement keyword"? Do I add the bonuses even when a weapon's damage die (the [W]) isn't involved too? Are there powers where I don't add enhancement bonuses?

Here are two examples:

WARLOCK
With a +1 rod and 18 charisma, my level 3 warlock Goldsnicker has a +6 attack bonus and 1d10+5 damage when using an Eldritch Blast. All's good so far.

But how much damage does he deal when he uses Armor of Agathys? Notice there is no "implement" keyword in the power's description. Does he deal 1d6+4 (just CHA) or 1d6+5 (CHA + implement's enhancement)?

WARLORD
With a +4 weapon and 20 strength, my level 16 warlord Xanthos also has the Dwarven Weapon Training feat (+2 feat bonus to damage rolls). When he uses a power that says, "Deal damage equal to your Strength modifier," does he also include his enhancement and feat damage bonuses with that damage?

For example, when he dishes out a Furious Smash, does Xanthos deal 5 damage (just STR) or 11 damage (STR + 4 weapon + 2 feat)? Keep in mind that unlike Goldsnicker's Armor of Agathys power, Furious Smash DOES include "weapon" as one of the keywords.

---

Basically I want to know how each example should play out, and where in the DMG/PHB does it tell you this? It seems to be unnecessarily confusing that some powers have a different damage bonus than others (i.e., I don't think most groups would spot that the Armor of Agathys power lacks an implement keyword; I thought at first it was an error; maybe it is?).

If this is the case, do any other powers have weird alternate ways of calculating damage like this?
One important thing is the enhancement bonus to damage is applied to damage rolls. A lot of bonuses to damage only affect the damage rolls, not static damage. Since Furious Smash does not involve a damage roll, it does not get the bonus. Note that since Furious Smash does have the Weapon keyword, it would get enhancement bonuses on the attack roll!

The rule on implements adding enhancement to attack and damage rolls is in the implement section for each class (for Warlocks, page 131).
Here is when the PHB specifically tells us how to add enhancement bonuses:

Yes, but you should also look at the very bottom of page 55, the "Accessories" subsection of the "Keywords" section. That discusses the implement and weapon keywords in greater detail.

Does this effectively mean "only add enhancement bonuses when the power has a weapon or implement keyword"?

That is exactly correct.

how much damage does he deal when he uses Armor of Agathys? Notice there is no "implement" keyword in the power's description. Does he deal 1d6+4 (just CHA) or 1d6+5 (CHA + implement's enhancement)?

You've answered your own question. There is no implement keyword, so he doesn't get the implement bonus.

...also has the Dwarven Weapon Training feat (+2 feat bonus to damage rolls). When he uses a power that says, "Deal damage equal to your Strength modifier," does he also include his enhancement and feat damage bonuses with that damage?

Dwarven Weapon Training is keyed to the proficient use of axes and hammers, so it applies only to attacks with the weapon keyword, when used with an axe or a hammer.

when he dishes out a Furious Smash, does Xanthos deal 5 damage (just STR) or 11 damage (STR + 4 weapon + 2 feat)? Keep in mind that unlike Goldsnicker's Armor of Agathys power, Furious Smash DOES include "weapon" as one of the keywords.

The weapon keyword gives him the attack bonus for weapon proficiency. However as mithmurr points out, this power doesn't have a damage roll, so you can't add bonus damage to the roll you aren't making.

- Alane -
For the passage in the PHB that says you only get the enhancement bonus if it has the weapon or implement keyword, look at the bottom of page 55, "Accessories."

(Would have posted this in my first response, but I forgot where it had stated this explicitly.)

edit: And then Alane Ninja'd the info anyway, who apparently is taking lessons from the Swiss
edit: And then Alane Ninja'd the info anyway, who apparently is taking lessons from the Swiss

Oh, like you're one to complain! You ninja'd my entire answer! ;)

- Alane -
Okay, I guess that makes sense. I was lumping the other modifiers (feat, enhancement, etc.) into the "ability modifier" part of the damage expression rather than the "X[W]" part, based on this passage:

Example: Valenae. a 12th-level eladrin paladin, hits a foe with thunder smite. The attack deals 2[W] + Strength modifier thunder damage and knocks the target prone. The damage would be 2d8 (longsword’s 1d8
Probably just a bad example. It just seemed odd that you're supposed to group the feat and enhancement bonuses with the damage roll, but when you multiply the damage die, you don't multiply those bonuses as well.

Thanks guys

Not odd at all. The x[W] is the damage roll. Add enhancement bonuses, feat bonuses, and other misc bonuses to damage rolls after you roll damage.

Look at page 276, Weapon Damage Dice and you'll note that [W] stands for the damage dice of the weapon only. All other modifiers are added after the roll.

TBP
What about this power then? Would you then add the implement damage to the secondary damage if the targeted creature moved closer to you in the next round?

Dire Radiance Warlock Attack 1

You cause a shaft of brilliant, cold starlight to lance down from above, bathing your foe in excruciating light. The nearer he moves toward you, the brighter and more deadly the light becomes.

At-Will Arcane, Fear, Implement, Radiant
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Constitution vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier radiant damage. If the target moves nearer to you on its next turn, it takes an extra 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.

Increase damage and extra damage to 2d6 + Constitution modifier at 21st level.

What about this power then? Would you then add the implement damage to the secondary damage if the targeted creature moved closer to you in the next round?

Yes, since it has the implement keyword and has a damage roll.

TBP
Yes, since it has the implement keyword and has a damage roll.

TBP

Okay, I know how irritating this is, but I don't have my PHB handy, as I'm at work - but!

If I use the Fighter's at will Cleave ability, I would naturally gain enhancement bonuses on the initial attack.

Since STR damage is automatically applied to the adjacent creature, that damage does NOT benefit from enhancement/feat/power bonuses, correct? It's just static STR?

To clarify - I swing at a kobold, and deal 1[W]+7 STR damage to it (+1 enhancement bonus, +1 feat bonus). My unmodified STR bonus is only a +5 though, so I deal 5 damage to his buddy?
Okay, I know how irritating this is, but I don't have my PHB handy, as I'm at work - but!

If I use the Fighter's at will Cleave ability, I would naturally gain enhancement bonuses on the initial attack.

Since STR damage is automatically applied to the adjacent creature, that damage does NOT benefit from enhancement/feat/power bonuses, correct? It's just static STR?

To clarify - I swing at a kobold, and deal 1[W]+7 STR damage to it (+1 enhancement bonus, +1 feat bonus). My unmodified STR bonus is only a +5 though, so I deal 5 damage to his buddy?

You are correct. See, it's not that hard when you have the book...but not having it makes it tougher, I know ^_^

TBP
Sorry guys, I hate to resurrect a long dead thread like this but I have used the search function and couldn't find the clarification I was after.  

My group is new to 4th Edition (little late to the party, I know) but we have one rule we keep debating... does a weapon's enhancement apply to each [W] of a damage roll, or is it applied after?  

ie: a power does 2[W] + Str damage... assuming the weapon damage die is 1d10, Str bonus is +2 and weapon is +1... is this:

1d10 + 1d10 + 2 (str) +1 (weapon)

or

1d10 + 1 (weapon) + 1d10 + 1 (weapon) + 2 (str)

?

Thanks in advance!

^.^ 
Sorry guys, I hate to resurrect a long dead thread like this but I have used the search function and couldn't find the clarification I was after.  

My group is new to 4th Edition (little late to the party, I know) but we have one rule we keep debating... does a weapon's enhancement apply to each [W] of a damage roll, or is it applied after?  

ie: a power does 2[W] + Str damage... assuming the weapon damage die is 1d10, Str bonus is +2 and weapon is +1... is this:

1d10 + 1d10 + 2 (str) +1 (weapon)

or

1d10 + 1 (weapon) + 1d10 + 1 (weapon) + 2 (str)

?

Thanks in advance!

^.^ 

All bonuses are applied after all variable damage dice such as [W]s or other damage rolls (like from implement powers) are accounted for, so the correct answer in your example above is:

1d10 + 1d10 +2 (str) + 1  (enhancement) + # feat + # power bonus + # other + etc.

It may actually be clearer to just think of it as 2d10, or 4d10 instead of 1d10 + 1d10.

If you're doing an implement power like Fireball, which does 4d6 + Intelligence modifier damage instead of including a [W], then the calculation is:

4d6 + Int modifier + Implement Enhancement + Feat bonus, + power bonus etc.







Sorry guys, I hate to resurrect a long dead thread like this but I have used the search function and couldn't find the clarification I was after.  

My group is new to 4th Edition (little late to the party, I know) but we have one rule we keep debating... does a weapon's enhancement apply to each [W] of a damage roll, or is it applied after?  

ie: a power does 2[W] + Str damage... assuming the weapon damage die is 1d10, Str bonus is +2 and weapon is +1... is this:

1d10 + 1d10 + 2 (str) +1 (weapon)

or

1d10 + 1 (weapon) + 1d10 + 1 (weapon) + 2 (str)

?

Thanks in advance!

^.^ 

All bonuses are applied after all variable damage dice such as [W]s or other damage rolls (like from implement powers) are accounted for, so the correct answer in your example above is:

1d10 + 1d10 +2 (str) + 1  (enhancement) + # feat + # power bonus + # other + etc.

It may actually be clearer to just think of it as 2d10, or 4d10 instead of 1d10 + 1d10.

If you're doing an implement power like Fireball, which does 4d6 + Intelligence modifier damage instead of including a [W], then the calculation is:

4d6 + Int modifier + Implement Enhancement + Feat bonus, + power bonus etc.










Great, thanks.  That is what I figured... if it got applied to each [W] that would start to add up WAY too quickly once you started getting into higher enhancements like +5 or something!

We usually do refer to 2[W] as 2d10 or whatever it may be but I wanted to try to be as clear as possible.

Thanks again!

Wow this thread was full of misinformation 5 years ago!
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.