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Most of that makes sense. However, I think a previous CSR response told me that All Bets Are Off (pit fighter encounter power) adds its damage to both attacks, even though the second one is a punch and does 1d6 damage instead of 1W, because the power has the Weapon keyword in it.

Has it been flipped since then to be tied to [W]? Or maybe I'm just mis-remembering the CSR response (it may have only been a rules forum post and thus not official). My memory is far from flawless.

Your rogue brutal scoundrel sounds cool, but I think that would be hard to support in your ability scores. I'd rather focus on 2 or maybe 3 scores and get them really high, rather than supporting many medium or low scores. At least it seems like you'd do more damage that way, maybe not. It's a lot cheaper on the point buy to have everything around 13-14 than it is to get 16+ on two.

But anyway, I'm drifting the thread to optimization. Sorry. If CSR will ever respond I'll post their answers to my 2 questions on ranger paragon path stuff soon.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Erm, they replied not 2 minutes earlier

I'm looking into the ranger paragon path I should take, but it's brought up a lot of questions. Here are the ones we couldn't come to a consensus on:

Question 1:
At level 16 does the Stormwarden's Twin-Blade Storm replace his Blade Storm, or does it stack with it? In other words, do I get to deal damage to 2 enemies or 3 enemies?

Question 2:
If Twin-Blade Storm replaces Blade Storm instead of stacking, what happens if I'm fighting lightning-resistant enemies? (TBS deals lightning damage, unlike BS) Can I choose to use the older Blade Storm instead of Twin-Blade Storm in this situation since it deals non-elemental damage and won't get totally blocked by the creatures' resistance?

Question 3:
The Pathfinder's paragon feature Cruel Recovery lets me gain temporary HP equal to the damage dealt with Hunter's Quarry + my wisdom modifier. Let's say I roll 12 with my 3d6 hunter's quarry and my wisdom modifier is 5 (total 17 temp HP), but the enemy reduces the damage through physical damage resistance (such as Shadowraven Swarm, Monster Manual page 243).

If the damage is reduced or resisted, partially or fully, do I still gain the full amount of temporary hit points, or do I only get as much temp HP as the actual damage that got through? I'm assuming that since I dealt half damage then I'd just halve each section of damage (weapon damage, quarry, enhancement, etc), and I'd only gain some of the temp HP for a total of 6 (quarry) + 5 (wisdom) = 11 instead of 17.

Is this the intended way to rule on this?

Thank you.

********************
Page Number: 114-115
Book Name: PHB

Glad to hear you've played enough for your Ranger to reach Paragon level! Things really start to get interesting from there.

Let me take your questions one at a time.

Question 1:
At level 16 does the Stormwarden's Twin-Blade Storm replace his Blade Storm, or does it stack with it? In other words, do I get to deal damage to 2 enemies or 3 enemies?

At level 16 you have both Blade Storm and Twin-Blade storm. It makes no mention of losing one and gaining another.

Question 2 becomes unneeded, because of this.

Question 3:
The Pathfinder's paragon feature Cruel Recovery lets me gain temporary HP equal to the damage dealt with Hunter's Quarry + my wisdom modifier. Let's say I roll 12 with my 3d6 hunter's quarry and my wisdom modifier is 5 (total 17 temp HP), but the enemy reduces the damage through physical damage resistance (such as Shadowraven Swarm, Monster Manual page 243).

If the damage is reduced or resisted, partially or fully, do I still gain the full amount of temporary hit points, or do I only get as much temp HP as the actual damage that got through? I'm assuming that since I dealt half damage then I'd just halve each section of damage (weapon damage, quarry, enhancement, etc), and I'd only gain some of the temp HP for a total of 6 (quarry) + 5 (wisdom) = 11 instead of 17.

-You only receive temporary HP for damage dealt. If the monster has a 5 damage resistance, then you would get 5 less temp HP.


Let us know if you have any more questions. Have fun with your Ranger!

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So Josh was extremely helpful. Woo-Hoo!

As for resist 5, I'm wondering what happens if I roll a 7 on my weapon damage die and a 12 on hunter's quarry. Does the [W] soak up all the resist so that I heal the full amount, or does the resist apply to each piece of bonus damage separately? Or is it the DM's choice which damage soaks up the resist 5?

I'm going to post that as a followup question.

EDIT: He responded already.

Thank you very much, you've helped us a great deal.

I have one more question about resist 5 reducing the temp HP. I'm wondering what happens if I roll a 7 on my weapon damage die and a 12 on hunter's quarry. Does the [W] soak up all the resist so that I heal the full amount? Or does the resist apply to each piece of bonus damage separately? Or is it the DM's choice which damage soaks up the resist 5?

Thank you!

Hi again Dan,

The rules don't cover this particular question, so in the end it's up to the DM how to handle that. It doesn't seem unreasonable to apply weapon damage first and quarry second, but that's just my own opinion. Your DM is welcome to rule however he'd like.



Let me know if you've got anything else!

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When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Most of that makes sense. However, I think a previous CSR response told me that All Bets Are Off (pit fighter encounter power) adds its damage to both attacks, even though the second one is a punch and does 1d6 damage instead of 1W, because the power has the Weapon keyword in it.

Has it been flipped since then to be tied to [W]? Or maybe I'm just mis-remembering the CSR response (it may have only been a rules forum post and thus not official). My memory is far from flawless.

Your rogue brutal scoundrel sounds cool, but I think that would be hard to support in your ability scores. I'd rather focus on 2 or maybe 3 scores and get them really high, rather than supporting many medium or low scores. At least it seems like you'd do more damage that way, maybe not. It's a lot cheaper on the point buy to have everything around 13-14 than it is to get 16+ on two.

But anyway, I'm drifting the thread to optimization. Sorry. If CSR will ever respond I'll post their answers to my 2 questions on ranger paragon path stuff soon.

I don't know, I was just extrapolating from what I can see in RaW. Also, with the Brutal Scoundrel Pit Fighter, I wouldn't really focus on Wis, just let the tier bumps help it. Cha, maybe, I might work on that, but I was just thinking about it off-handedly.

"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006

Dilige, et quod vis fac

I have a question regarding multiple implements. If I am using Master's Wand of Thunderwave in order to cast the Thunderwave Spell, and I am also wielding a Thunderwave Staff, can I link the power between the two Implements? Specifically, if the Thunderwave Staff has a higher enhancement bonus, can I use that higher enhancement bonus, or must I use the bonus from the Wand? Also, can the Thunderwave Staff's daily power be used to convert the push effect to damage when Thunderwave is cast from a Wand?

Thank you.

The short answer is Yes.

Basically a wand grants YOU a power, and how you cast/focus it is up to you. So you could use the Master's Wand of Thunderwave's power, make it a burst 1, and focus it through the staff, using the staffs higher bonus, then use the Staffs daily power to knock them prone.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

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Aaron
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Awesome

"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006

Dilige, et quod vis fac

Customer Service Answers aren't Official Right???? - This answer scares me.

Q: Does a Warlock wielding both a Rod of Reaving (PHB 240) & a Rod of Corruption (PHB 239) have the ability to curse a minion, deal the 1 or more points of damage from the Rod of Reaving's property then since the minion has only a single hit point it dies activating the Rod of Corruption's property spreading the curse to all enemies within 5 squares of the orignal minion giving each of them the 1 point of damage and if they are minions does the cycle continue?


A: Implements can be weilded in each hand to gain the properties of both. If you Dungeon Master is willing to allow your Warlock access to both of those implements, you could utilize both effects as described in your e-mail (effectively becoming a minion-killer of doom).

Good Gaming!


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Evan
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I can see an Army of Minions now, one of them spots a lone warlock advancing toward their lines as a Warlord orders everyone to get spaced with 5 squares between them in each direction.
Hm. I just got an answer recently from CS on Alchemical items:

In the rules for alchemy, some items - such as Alchemist's Fire (for example) - have power entries that say:

"Power (Consumable * Fire): Standard Action. Make an attack: Area burst 1 within 10; +4 vs. Reflex; on a hit, deal 1d6 fire damage; on miss, deal half damage."

Do you add your 1/2 Level modifier to that +4? If I was a level 4 character (and thus had a +2 level bonus), would my total attack with a flask of Alchemist's Fire be +6?

You will add have[sic] your level to the attack. This is actually in the Player's Handbook on page 276 for Attack Results. The +4 bonus that the Alchemist's fire provided is considered the attack modifier and the base attack bonus of half your level is still added to that. So in your example, yes you would have a total of +6 to hit at 4th level.

Hm. I just got an answer recently from CS on Alchemical items:

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard! A level 26 character wielding the most powerful alchemist's fire (a level 26 item) will have a +42 to hit vs. Reflex, making it the most accurate attack in the entire game.
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That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard! A level 26 character wielding the most powerful alchemist's fire (a level 26 item) will have a +42 to hit vs. Reflex, making it the most accurate attack in the entire game.

I didn't come up with the answer; I just asked.

For the record, I agree. It makes it entirely too accurate, which means that if I had the energy to resubmit, I would. In fact, I think I will resubmit the question.

EDIT: I did not notice this, but there is a note that WotC is "still working on the question," and it's listed as unresolved - I think they're taking another look at it, and may reverse the original answer.
Customer Service Answers aren't Official Right???? - This answer scares me.

(snip)

I can see an Army of Minions now, one of them spots a lone warlock advancing toward their lines as a Warlord orders everyone to get spaced with 5 squares between them in each direction.

Hmmm... It sounds like (from the CSR's wording) you need permission from your DM to do this, as though it wasn't entirely within the rules. Perhaps it has to do with the "holding vs wielding" rules. You can hold both rods, but only be wielding one at a time. And you can have both a magical shield and magic bracers, but only one of them is functioning at once. That said, rods with passive powers may work differently.

Mock:
It'll be interesting to see what they do with this, if they are indeed reevaluating it.

It may be okay since you are working with a consumable item that's more expensive than arrows and takes time & components to make, and doesn't necessarily do a huge amount of damage for the amount of work that goes into it. That said, players with lots of money and/or time on their hands could stockpile loads of alchemical attack items and just unload them during a boss battle or large-scale fight.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Hmmm... It sounds like (from the CSR's wording) you need permission from your DM to do this, as though it wasn't entirely within the rules. Perhaps it has to do with the "holding vs wielding" rules. You can hold both rods, but only be wielding one at a time. And you can have both a magical shield and magic bracers, but only one of them is functioning at once. That said, rods with passive powers may work differently.

The DM's Permission part comes from the fact that the DM has absolute control on what items come into his game and exactly how they work when they do. Few if any DMs would allow both items into their game at the same time and also allow them to stack. That said, if they do, go nuts.
Mock:
It'll be interesting to see what they do with this, if they are indeed reevaluating it.

It may be okay since you are working with a consumable item that's more expensive than arrows and takes time & components to make, and doesn't necessarily do a huge amount of damage for the amount of work that goes into it. That said, players with lots of money and/or time on their hands could stockpile loads of alchemical attack items and just unload them during a boss battle or large-scale fight.

Okay, on the bounce-back, another CS rep confirmed that you add 1/2 Level to the attack:

It was sent up to me so that I could review the question and make sure the answer that was given was correct, sorry about the delay.
You do add half your level to the attack roll for alchemical items as per the attack roll section of the Player's Handbook on page 27.
I have marked your email as feedback about the alchemical items so your concerns about the high attack modifiers at later levels.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

I'm guessing the last sentence is missing a word or two, but the gist seems to be that he fired it further along as feedback.
The DM's Permission part comes from the fact that the DM has absolute control on what items come into his game and exactly how they work when they do. Few if any DMs would allow both items into their game at the same time and also allow them to stack. That said, if they do, go nuts.

True. That said, Enchant Magic Item should be able to produce each item, so the DM may have to go farther than not including those items in his treasure parcels and shops to keep a player from getting both. And it might be cruel to deny the players that ritual. Instead of restricting the players that much, it may be easier to simply house-rule the way the items work so that it only cascades once, or not at all. So I'm thinking giving them the items is fine as long as you restrict their potency together (as you said, few DMs would allow the effect to stack if they allowed both items together).

I would be interested in knowing from CS if it's common, in a more general sense, for passive effects like these to be active on both items in your hands when you hold two of them. For example, you can hold two implements, but are both active all the time, or is it only the one being wielded for the attack that kills the creature and presumably starts the cascade? I suspect there's a more general guiding rule here that would be helpful for us to know, whether it's being used for this ruling or trampled on. Might be worth a followup question. *shrug*
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
My question:

PHB, page 88

The swordmaster paragon path grants a level 12 utility power called Fantastic Flourish. It is minor action that triggers when you strike an opponent in melee. However, it is a ranged power (range 5). This means that when you use the power as intended, you will take an opportunity attack from the monster you are fighting. This seems contradictory to the nature of the fighter class. Has there been errata/explanation of this already, or are you supposed to be taking opportunity attacks when using this power?
My question:

PHB, page 88

The swordmaster paragon path grants a level 12 utility power called Fantastic Flourish. It is minor action that triggers when you strike an opponent in melee. However, it is a ranged power (range 5). This means that when you use the power as intended, you will take an opportunity attack from the monster you are fighting. This seems contradictory to the nature of the fighter class. Has there been errata/explanation of this already, or are you supposed to be taking opportunity attacks when using this power?

There's no errata for that, but you should forward that along to CS. It's an interesting question.
True. That said, Enchant Magic Item should be able to produce each item, so the DM may have to go farther than not including those items in his treasure parcels and shops to keep a player from getting both. And it might be cruel to deny the players that ritual. Instead of restricting the players that much, it may be easier to simply house-rule the way the items work so that it only cascades once, or not at all. So I'm thinking giving them the items is fine as long as you restrict their potency together (as you said, few DMs would allow the effect to stack if they allowed both items together).

That's stupid. Don't take away the whole ritual, just say "you can't make that item" if you don't like it. Take away the minimum possible thing to keep the game working.

Myself, I give minions effectively infinite HP and they just die as soon as they're hit by an actual attack roll. Fixes lots of "problems".
Well, minions with infinite health that cannot be killed by any means except a direct hit are a problem in their own right (especially dodgy ones, but not only them). The whole idea with minions is they go down easy. With your solution, a player could never ever ever kill a minion by cleaving into him (fighter at-will), no matter how much damage the player does or how often he does it. You can kill the non-minion that's one level higher that way, but the minion is immortal until hit directly. Powers like Unyielding Avalanche become useless against a minion swarm. That makes minions far more powerful than I think they should be, and that seems like a more broken rule than the existing one. It fixes some DM problems and creates new ones for players.

I'd rather give them about half the amount of health that's appropriate for their level & creature type, i.e. the skeleton minion has about the half amount of health (or less) as the closest non-minion skeleton (say, 10-20 hp). Then at least powers that deal damage without an attack roll are still meaningful, but they can't be used to "cheese kill" mass swarms of minions.

Though frankly I suspect that it was intended that way -- a storm warden or fighter with cleave/unyielding avalanche should be tearing through minions like tissue paper without having to hit every single one individually with an attack roll. Unless these are immensely high-level minions, why shouldn't they?
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
The whole idea with minions is they go down easy. With your solution, a player could never ever ever kill a minion by cleaving into him (fighter at-will), no matter how much damage the player does or how often he does it.

I don't know if English is your first language or not, but "effectively" and "literally" don't mean the same thing. If a minion somehow took enough damage that a normal monster would have been killed, then I'll have them just die like they should. However, this is fairly hard to do without ever hitting them with an actual attack roll, so I don't worry about it. I don't even track the damage they've taken, I just estimate if they've taken too much automatic damage or not.

Powers like Unyielding Avalanche become useless against a minion swarm.

And said power is still so good against normal, elite, and solo monsters, that I don't really care if it's not good against minions. I'm a fighter in another game where the DM hasn't used minions beyond the 2nd battle, and I still plan on taking Unyielding Avalanche.

Though frankly I suspect that it was intended that way -- a storm warden or fighter with cleave/unyielding avalanche should be tearing through minions like tissue paper without having to hit every single one individually with an attack roll. Unless these are immensely high-level minions, why shouldn't they?

Because to me it defeats the point of the wizard class and others who have actual area attacks.
I don't know if English is your first language or not, but "effectively" and "literally" don't mean the same thing. If a minion somehow took enough damage that a normal monster would have been killed, then I'll have them just die like they should. However, this is fairly hard to do without ever hitting them with an actual attack roll, so I don't worry about it. I don't even track the damage they've taken, I just estimate if they've taken too much automatic damage or not.

Fair enough, though I would hate that as a player because now the enemy minion dying is entirely up to the DM's subjective whims instead of using exact HP like the other enemies. A house rule like that should be discussed with the players because they may be counting on the minions functioning as written in the book (and I assume you've discussed it with them and they're okay with it), and a rule like that creates some big weirdisms in when things die.

And English is not a second language for me, but that doesn't mean you should assume I'm incompetent or unable to understand the language just because I didn't understand what you meant by "effectively" in this case. You did not explain what you meant until now. Please don't be rude about it.

Because to me it defeats the point of the wizard class and others who have actual area attacks.

I suspect the reason minions don't take damage on a miss is so a wizard can't throw a fireball into a room and wipe them all out with the miss damage. That rule is less for the fighter on-miss powers etc, the wizard was the problem that lead to that rule. Even with the rule, wizards will always be better minion killers than fighters or stormwardens unless the minions are much higher level and their defenses are very hard to breach.

Even with classes like stormwarden that can kill minions without an attack roll, the wizard has plenty of area burst 2 and close blast 5 spells by level 11-16 that cover way more area than the storm warden (who can insta-kill at most 3 minions per turn with his class feature) and almost always kill much more. Wizards also have effects that deal damage without an attack roll (Wall of Fire and Wall of Ice, Cloudkill, etc). If a swarm of minions run into my cloudkill or wall of fire, does that not kill them? They're supposed to be weak, but if they have as much HP (for non-direct hits) as normal enemies then they're no longer true minions. Now a fighter poking the minion by rolling a 1 on damage is more effective than the wizard whose wall of fire rolled higher damage against it. Subjective calls from the DM like "hmmm, I think the wall did enough to kill it this time" are just going to complicate it further for the players. They figure they damaged that minion and it ought to be going down instead of still blocking their path to more threatening enemies.

Minions are supposed to be super weak and any kind of damage they don't dodge should end them. The storm warden's blade storm or fighter's unyielding avalanche means he's swinging his blades in a frenzy around him and getting damage in somewhere, somehow against nearby enemies. Minions are meant to go down with even minor hits. The idea is they're dangerous on offense, but so weak compared to you that any kind of damage kills them except a miss.

As I said before, creating a house rule like this may solve some problems on your end, but it creates a whole lot more problems, especially for the players who are wondering why that minion is able to withstand a wall of fire but not a weak dagger poke. Damage and death have become subjective now. At that point it's probably better to do what you mentioned above, and not use minions in your campaign anymore after the first or second battle.

Anyway, this is derailing a thread that is meant for a different purpose, and for that I apologize. If you want to PM me or start a thread in the house rules forum we can discuss it further.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Here are the answers to your questions.

1.) What are the item slots?


--Item Slots are described on page 224 of the Player's Handbook. Within the broad category of clothing, items are grouped by kind of clothing - whether you wear the item on your head or your feet for example. These are called item slots, and they provide a practical limit to the number of magic items you can wear and use.

2.) What is meant by use/using? (Words that occur repeatedly in rules text that lack rules definition.)

-- Unfortunately, I cannot answer a general question such as this. If you have a question about a specific power please let me know.

3.) What is meant by wielding? (Currently covered for Rogue Weapon talents specifically, which may not apply in the general case. Welcome to making rulings for exception based design, and again rules text making repeated use of words without rules definition.)

-- To wield a weapon is to handle or hold a weapon with the purpose of attacking with it. If you are not going to attack with it you are just holding the weapon.

4.) If weapons are a single item slot how does this affect using two weapons (Rangers, and Tempest Fighters in particular)?

-- Weapons do not take up item slots. The hand item slots are listed on page 247.

5.) If each Implement type is an item slot how does this affect a character using two implements?

-- Implements do not take up item slots.

I hope this information is useful.

Good Gaming!

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Seeking further clarification on Use/Using and Wield/Wielding especially as they apply to implements.

The rules on Item Slots mean that the restriction on Rings is an exception to the general rule of "as many as you like" much like the Item Slots and Holy Symbols create exceptions.
And English is not a second language for me, but that doesn't mean you should assume I'm incompetent or unable to understand the language just because I didn't understand what you meant by "effectively" in this case. You did not explain what you meant until now. Please don't be rude about it.

Ah yes, I suppose I was a bit rude. Sorry for that.

However, the rest of your post I'll respond to in a PM, because, as you say, this is not the thread for it.
Adventurer's Vault stuff

*Alchemical Items*. I'm confused about the cost to make/buy alchemical items. What is the Market Price? Is that just the cost to buy the formula? And what is the Component Cost? Is that the price listed for each level of a given item? If one of my players wants to *make* an alchemical item, how do I determine how much it will cost? Market Price plus level-appropriate Component Cost? What about if said player goes into an alchemist's shop and wants to buy one. How much should he expect to pay? The same price as making it? Just the market price? Just the component cost? It's not at all clear.

Formula cost is how much it costs to learn or be taught a specific formula. Component cost is how much it costs to buy individual components you might need. The price to buy a pre-made potion is listed in the full description of the Alchemical item.

I'm still confused. Is the price listed under "Market Price" how much it would cost to buy a premade alchemical item? If so, then it costs the same to buy the *formula* as it does to buy a premade item, and it therefore costs even more to make it yourself as you have to not only pay for the formula but also the component cost. Am I reading that right?

There's no price given for purchasing alchemical items beyond the creation cost. It works the same as a magic item, costing the same to buy or create one. It's up to the DM and the player to work out some increased price for selling or buying if they want to do so from there, as there's no rules regarding that yet.


Thanks, and have fun with Alchemy!

OK thanks. So if I just wanted a baseline price for purchasing an alchemical item, I can just say "market price + level appropriate component cost" and be done with it? And that's the same as making it. I'm happy with that.

You can do whatever you'd like, as I said there's no actual rule. That method certainly seems workable to me though.

Well, that wasn't particularly helpful ... I love the "have fun with alchemy!" comment though.




*Armor of Exploits*. This magic armor states that you can store an at-will or encounter power from one of your allies (as well as yourself). If
you choose to store one of somebody else's powers, do you use their attack/damage values or do you recalculate them to be in line with your own?
It doesn't say.

You use your stats when you use the power stored. It's as if you used that power yourself.

That clears that up.
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Well, that wasn't particularly helpful ... I love the "have fun with alchemy!" comment though.

I didn't think it needed clearing up, personally - and the second answer you received [from Josh] should have needed no further clarification.


A character wishing to use a formula must buy the formula and learn it or else pay someone to teach it to him or her (the same market price).
Alchemical formulas have a cost and creation time that the character creating an alchemical item must spend. The components used in alchemical formulas are the same as those used for rituals (PH 300).

{emphasis mine}

The market price of the formula is the cost of learning the alchemical recipe or formula. The component cost of the formula is the cost of crafting the alchemical formula into the finished product.

The book does not list a market price for a finished alchemical item. It is the same as the component cost to create said item (just like for a magic item).

Yes, the 'market price' of the formula seems a waste at first glance, as the cost to purchase an alchemical item is the same as to make one...thus the cost of the formula is wasted gold.

Except that once you pay the cost of learning the formula, you then can make as many of that item as you want, as long as you have the proper materials at hand (PHB pp300 for types of components). This is the same as the 'wasted' cost of learning the brew potion or enchant magic item rituals. The cost of those rituals is wasted if you can always purchase the items you wish whenever and wherever you wish. But since in most games you can't, you pay for the ritual (or the formula) to be able to make things on the fly.
More Alcehmy Questions:

The text says you can choose to get the Alchemist feat instead of the Ritual Caster feat. If I do this as a wizard, do I get three 1st-level alchemic formulas for free instead of three rituals? Do I automatically learn free new alchemic forumlas at later levels like a wizard would pick up free rituals?

What if I am a cleric? Do I get two free alchemic formulas at first level in place of a cleric's standard rituals?

The text also implies you need a book to store formula in, but it also says you can be taught new formulas. Is it strictly necessary to buy some kind of alchemy book (of which there don't seem to be any price or weight listed) or can I just assume that my charcter memorizes the formulas?

One more thing, are the atatck rolls listed for many of those alchemical items static? Or do I add other modifiers to it such as my Dexterity modifier (in the case of ranged attacks) and my 1/2 level modifier?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

********************
Page Number: 20-21
Book Name: Adventurer's Vault
Hello Juddson,

There's no mention in the book on whether it allows a wizard or cleric taking it in place of their rituals to get any starting formulas. As such, it's up to the DM on whether or not to allow that. I know in the game I'm running, I've allowed that, as it certainly seems reasonable.

There's also no mention of a formulas book, so no mention of a cost for that book. Again, it's the DM's decision on how to work that.

As for the attack rolls, you always add 1/2 your level. There's no mention of adding dexterity, so even though it might seem logical when using attaching the substance to an arrow, the rules don't allow for it.

Hope that helps. Please let me know if you need anymore help!


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What is the point of the Key Skills if NONE of the alchemical items require you to make a skill check? Do you have to have the key skill in question in order to make a specific alchemical item (such as Arcana or Thievery for Alchemist's Fire)?

********************
Page Number: 20-21
Book Name: Adventurer's Vault
Juddson,

Thank you for writing.

In order to make an alchemical item, you need the Alchemist feat and they item appropriate key skill. You still need the key skill in order to make the item, even though no skill check is required.

Good Gaming!


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I recently asked a bunch of questions about Flaming Sphere (partially motivated by the discussion on whether it can fly or not), a power that has caused us no end of rules annoyance. I went into a lot of detail in my questions since it is my general experience that asking detailed questions will get you better answers. I got my answers from Chuck if that matters to anyone.

Here are the questions and answers (with my comments):

1) When sustaining the sphere:
a) Do you need line of effect to the sphere?
b) Do you need line of sight to the sphere?

1) There are no line of sight or effect requirements for sustaining the Flaming Sphere.

Comments: In other words, it's enough to stay within ten squares, even if there is a nine-square-thick wall between you and the sphere. I don't think this is much of a problem, though someone who really wanted to could probably find a way to abuse it.

2) You can use a move action to move the sphere up to six squares. Which, if any, of the following are true?
a) The sphere can move up stairs and inclines a medium-sized character could move up.
b) The sphere can move down stairs and inclines a medium-sized character could move up.
c) The sphere can fly up into the air.
d) The sphere can't move over a precipice.
e) Assuming e is false: If moved over a precipice, the sphere falls.
f) If moved onto a liquid surface (e.g. water) the sphere will sink to the bottom.
g) Assuming f is true: After sinking to the bottom, the sphere has to stay on the bottom and can't move up (unless able to move up inclines etc if such are present).
h) Assuming f is true and g is false: The sphere can move up, but will sink again if it doesn't end its move on firm ground.
i) Assuming f is false (i.e., the sphere will not sink in liquid): The sphere can move down below the surface.
j) Assuming f is false and i is true: If moved below the surface, the sphere can move up again.
k) The sphere ignores difficult terrain.
l) The sphere can move up along walls and other vertical surfaces as long as it stays in contact with the surface.
m) The sphere can move along a roof as long as it stays in contact with the surface.

2) The Flaming Sphere has a standard move of six, so it move 6 square along a surface in much the same way a walking creature would.

Comments: This doesn't specifically ask what happens with water, but I'll assume it will at least move over the surface rather than sink.

3) When moving the sphere, which of the following are true?
a) You need line of sight to the square you're moving the sphere into.
b) You need line of sight to the square you're moving the sphere from.
c) You need line of effect to the square you're moving the sphere into.
d) You need line of effect to the square you're moving the sphere from.

3) There are no line of sight or effect requirements for moving the Flaming Sphere, but you did need to direct it, so if you can not see where you are telling it to go there maybe miss communication, but that would be up to your Dungeon Master.

Comments: This came up when the party was fighting a black dragon. At that time I ruled that the sphere could be given a direction to move in, but the character didn't know which square it was in - if it bumped up against something that square of movement would be lost. It worked well enough, though it got a bit fiddly for me to keep track of where it was.

4) Which, if any, of the following will provoke an attack of opportunity against the Wizard (based on Flaming Sphere being a Ranged power)?
a) Sustaining the sphere.
b) Moving the sphere.
c) Making an attack with the sphere.

4) Making the attack with the Power that creates the Sphere.

Comments: Nothing ambiguous about that, and a reasonable ruling, I think.

5) How does the sphere interact with allies with regards to flanking?
a) Do attacks made with the sphere gain combat advantage against enemies that have an ally on the opposite side of the sphere?
b) Do allies get combat advantage against an enemy that has the sphere on the opposite side of them?

5) Conjurations are not allies and so do not flank.

Comments: The answer to the previous question also implies that the attack the sphere makes is a ranged attack and flanking would then be a moot issue anyway.

6) Will the power end and the sphere disappear in any of the following circumstances, and if so, which?
a) You don't have line of sight to the sphere?
b) You don't have line of effect to the sphere?

6) No.

7) When attacking with the sphere, which of the following are true?
a) You need line of sight to the sphere.
b) You need line of effect to the sphere.
c) You need line of sight to the target of the attack.
d) You need line of effect to the target of the attack.
e) The target of the attack must be within ten squares of you.

7) Much like moving the sphere you are directing it so it would up to your Dungeon Master if there is an issue.

Comments: A real non-answer again. I'll have to think some more on how to handle this, but my gut instinct is that you should need line of sight to the sphere and line of effect to the target (i.e., you could attack a target you can't see if you suspect they're there), but the target need only be adjacent to the sphere and not necessarily within ten squares.
If a PC used a power to slide the NPC into an area spell that deals damage upon entering the area (such as Blade Barrier), can the NPC take the damage multiple times by being slid in and out of the area over and over again (with only a single slide effect)? In other words, does the NPC in the attached diagram (see below) take 3d6+Wis damage, or (3d6+Wis) x 2 damage?

IMAGE(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh275/Ravingdork/BladeBarrierSample.jpg)


********************
Page Number: 67
Book Name: Player's Handbook


Juddson,

Hello. Very cool grid! The answer is yes, if you slid a creature in the way illustrated, he would take the damage from the blade barrier twice.

Please write us back if you require any further assistance.


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Wow. My control wizard just got a hell of a lot more powerful. I can now slide enemies in and out of hazardess zones to get x3, x5, or x10 damage from my zone spells (depending on how far I can slide the poor bastard). :D
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I assume you need to move them out and back in to get the repeat damage, which is too bad. Otherwise you could get 5x damage with this simple slide:

s xxxxx e<br /> a<br /> <br /> s = start<br /> e = end<br /> a = attacker

It looks like the damage triggers when they enter the zone, not on entering one of the spaces in the zone. Or maybe not? It depends on what "If a creature enters the barrier’s space" means.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
I assume you need to move them out and back in to get the repeat damage, which is too bad. Otherwise you could get 5x damage with this simple slide:

s xxxxx e<br /> a<br /> <br /> s = start<br /> e = end<br /> a = attacker

It looks like the damage triggers when they enter the zone, not on entering one of the spaces in the zone. Or maybe not? It depends on what "If a creature enters the barrier’s space" means.

I seriously doubt you would get x5 damage with your example.
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yea, doesn't work that way. It makes sense that dragging them through 5 squares of spinning blades or flame would damage them for each square, but the rules don't seem to support it.

Though I should mention that when you drag someone through a blade barrier etc, it's a good idea to not pull them out of it when you're done -- the last square of forced movement should be inside the zone. That way (if the zone still exists) you get to damage them one more time when they start their turn.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
That way (if the zone still exists) you get to damage them one more time when they start their turn.

Pure evil. :D
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II didn't think it needed clearing up, personally - and the second answer you received [from Josh] should have needed no further clarification.



A character wishing to use a formula must buy the formula and learn it or else pay someone to teach it to him or her (the same market price).
Alchemical formulas have a cost and creation time that the character creating an alchemical item must spend. The components used in alchemical formulas are the same as those used for rituals (PH 300).

{emphasis mine}

The market price of the formula is the cost of learning the alchemical recipe or formula. The component cost of the formula is the cost of crafting the alchemical formula into the finished product.

The book does not list a market price for a finished alchemical item. It is the same as the component cost to create said item (just like for a magic item).

Yes, the 'market price' of the formula seems a waste at first glance, as the cost to purchase an alchemical item is the same as to make one...thus the cost of the formula is wasted gold.

Except that once you pay the cost of learning the formula, you then can make as many of that item as you want, as long as you have the proper materials at hand (PHB pp300 for types of components). This is the same as the 'wasted' cost of learning the brew potion or enchant magic item rituals. The cost of those rituals is wasted if you can always purchase the items you wish whenever and wherever you wish. But since in most games you can't, you pay for the ritual (or the formula) to be able to make things on the fly.

So the gp amount listed under Market Price for any given item is only for the formula? And the amount listed for each level of a given item is the component cost? And when you make an item, all you pay is the component cost (assuming you have already paid for the formula)? And if you want to buy an item, you only have to pay for the cost of the components used to make it (ignoring any markup for the moment)?
"The Curse of Knowledge: When you know something, it's difficult to imagine what it's like not to know it."

~ Steven Pinker

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Welcome to Icewind Dale (Legacy of the Crystal Shard)

DMing for My Wife (and Our Friends) (Lost Mine of Phandelver)

 

I recently finished a conversation with CS about some issues I've been wondering about.

I haven't read much of this thread, so forgive me if the question has already been added or the format is off.
Customer (Scott Fernandez) 09/26/2008 11:29 AM
I have searched the books currently out and have not found text that indicates that untyped bonuses don't stack. The sidebar on page 275 of the PHB tells us that typed bonuses don't stack, but about untyped bonuses they say, "Most of these are situational and add together with other bonus you have, including other untyped bonuses."

Does this mean that all untyped bonuses stack, even if from the 'same source'? If not, please explain where they specify the 'same source' text and also please explain when the 'same source' would apply, as it seems unclear what 'same source' would mean. (or at least please give me a good reason for your ruling, preferably based on either text or what the designers say, rather than simply giving me 'what makes sense', which is biased by last edition's rules.)

On a tangential topic, for penalties the sidebar specifies that they don't stack if they're "from the same power." Does this mean penalties from the same 'feature' or 'effect' (not from power) DO stack?

One last thing: How do you handle identical things that aren't bonuses or penalties interacting? For example, nothing seems to indicate that only the highest resistance or vulnerability of a specific type would apply, and seems to actually imply that they stack, since multiple other things specifically mention that they don't stack. (regen, ongoing damage, identical effects from powers)

And finally, are these intended to be as they seem to be written or not? If not, could you please pass this on to someone who can make the appropriate clarifications, hopefully in 'updates'?

********************
Page Number: Any
Book Name: Any
Response (Support Agent) 09/26/2008 07:02 PM
Scott,

Many bonuses will specify what type they are. Other bonuses of that same type will not stack with each other. For example, If you have two feats that give you a +2 damage feat bonus to a weapon, your damage feat bonus will be +2 and not 4.

Bonuses that do not have a type of bonus (such as Feat, Enhancement, etc) will stack with other untyped bonuses, and other typed bonuses.

Penalties always stack unless they're from the same power. If two creatures have the same aura that gives you a -2 to your attack roll, then your penalty is -2, not -4.

Please let me know if you have any more questions!

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Customer (Scott Fernandez) 09/27/2008 04:16 AM
I'm sorry, but that answer was quite unhelpful. You didn't really answer my question, other than perhaps affirming that yes, everything untyped stacks (though I'm not sure if that's what you were trying to say.) Also, what you stated for penalties and your example for what you stated are conflicting. First you say that it only doesn't stack when they're from the same power and then say that auras would be affected. Auras are most definitely not powers. Lastly, you didn't even address my question about resistances and vulnerabilities stacking.

I have searched the rules for answers to these questions and not come up with much, but this is not from an inability to read or comprehend. I don't need any help ascertaining that which you have provided, and in fact gave the very page number that has text explaining said concepts (not to mention I specifically said that the text said that typed bonuses don't stack and untyped ones do.) However, I want either helpful guidance to where the rules explain this matter or to notify those who can make changes of these problems if they were not intended. I don't think there is any text clarifying this, but I could be wrong and have missed something, so I give that as a potential solution as well.

In other words, I'm asking about how the rules are supposed to work about lots of different types of stacking. Specifically, I'm looking to see whether the idea of a 'same source' not stacking died out or was simply inadvertently left out of this edition, and furthermore whether these things were supposed to work the way they seem to.
Response (Support Agent) 09/27/2008 07:39 AM
Hi Scott,

This email is to inform you that we have received your incident and have escalated it for further review. A representative should be contacting you concerning your incident in 24-48 hours or less. We apologize for this delay and appreciate your patience while we work to resolve this.

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Response (Support Agent) 09/29/2008 12:29 PM
Scott,

Resistances and Vulnerabilities do not stack, if you have resistance 10 poison and resistance 5 poison you remove 10 points of poison damage per instance of poison damage.

All untypes bonuses stack.

Penalties always stack unless they are from the same power, so if you had a penalty from a class feature or other source it would stack with itself.

Please let me know if this does not answer all of your questions.

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Customer (Scott Fernandez) 09/29/2008 02:00 PM
Thank you for the appropriate answers. My last query is about clarification on the resistances and vulnerabilities; Could you explain the justification for that answer, be it text or reliable information on intent? I've been trying to find some justification in the text for such a ruling, but I failed to find any. If there is no such justification proving that they don't stack, then could you explain how my reasoning that they then follow the appropriate text and so all apply (stack) is incorrect?

I assume that the other two answers use as their justification the text I provided and do not have conflicting text elsewhere. (or are intended)

Response (Support Agent) 09/30/2008 10:21 AM
Scott,

Unfortunately, there isn’t an official answer for the situation you describe. I’ve passed along this conversation to the game’s developers. Hopefully, we’ll see an update or FAQ entry covering it soon, but until then it’s up to the campaign’s Dungeon Master to decide. The DM is always the final arbiter on how they want their campaign to run.

Have fun!

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Overall, I'm satisfied that they said 'we don't know' instead of giving a false/uncertain ruling. I don't think it's actually uncertain, but admitting an inability to answer with certainty is definitely better than contradictory or wrong rulings.
My questions:

1. Kukri: The entry on the table on page 9 does not point to footnote
2, which indicates that a rogue can treat it as a dagger, but the
description of the kukri on page 10 does. I'm assuming the latter is correct
in this instance.

2. Bags of Tricks: The intro text states that you must spend a healing
surge to activate a bag, but their "statblocks" do not. They indicate that
the bags' powers are merely dailies requiring a standard action to use.
Which is correct?

3. Flaying gloves: The hand slot magic items table on page 131
indicates that 4th level Flaying gloves cost 2600gp but the "statblock" on
page 133 indicates it is only 840gp, which is the same price as the other
two 4th level hand slot items.

4. Light chariot: The section entitled "cover" in the Light Chariot's
statblock reads: "A heavy chariot provides cover to its driver and
passengers." Obviously this is just a cut-and-paste error and, since the
light chariot indicates that it can only hold one Medium creature, it should
read something like "A light chariot provides cover to its driver."

5. Bonegrim armor: The level-ups are at 19, 24 and 29 but the
auto-increases for the armor's properties are at 18, 23, and 28. Is that
correct? If not, which set of numbers is wrong?


Paul's answers:

1. You are correct. The kukri is treated as a dagger for the rogue's Weapon Talent.

2. You do have to spend a healing surge in order to activate the bag's power.

3. The chart is wrong. You will want to go by the actual description.

4. Thanks for pointing that out!

5. Unfortunately, there isn’t an official answer for the situation you describe. I’ve passed along this conversation to the game’s developers. Hopefully, we’ll see an update or FAQ entry covering it soon, but until then it’s up to the campaign’s Dungeon Master to decide. The DM is always the final arbiter on how they want their campaign to run. Have fun!

"The Curse of Knowledge: When you know something, it's difficult to imagine what it's like not to know it."

~ Steven Pinker

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Welcome to Icewind Dale (Legacy of the Crystal Shard)

DMing for My Wife (and Our Friends) (Lost Mine of Phandelver)

 

So the gp amount listed under Market Price for any given item is only for the formula? And the amount listed for each level of a given item is the component cost? And when you make an item, all you pay is the component cost (assuming you have already paid for the formula)? And if you want to buy an item, you only have to pay for the cost of the components used to make it (ignoring any markup for the moment)?

That is exactly how I understand it, and what CS Josh stated in his answer. That is how existing magical crafting (potions, weapons/armor, etc.) works, which is why it seems the most obvious answer.

As a DM, I personally make house rules to make it make just a tad bit more sense (to me and my group) - but I don't bother with fleshing out a 'realistic economic model', as it seems almost impossible to do with a fantasy based rules system. I jus ttry to make it make more sense, ala the crafters you buy from DO mark things up a tad bit, you can recover more than 1/5 market value from selling items, you can sell mundane items, etc. But that is all house rules and outside the scope of this topic.
That is exactly how I understand it, and what CS Josh stated in his answer. That is how existing magical crafting (potions, weapons/armor, etc.) works, which is why it seems the most obvious answer.

OK. I didn't get that from Josh's answer, so thanks for helping.
"The Curse of Knowledge: When you know something, it's difficult to imagine what it's like not to know it."

~ Steven Pinker

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Welcome to Icewind Dale (Legacy of the Crystal Shard)

DMing for My Wife (and Our Friends) (Lost Mine of Phandelver)

 

OK. I didn't get that from Josh's answer, so thanks for helping.

I think it is because Josh didn't spell it out as I did - he assumed you would already be familiar with the way potions and magic items work, and take from it that alchemy works the same way. I have seen a similar trend in other CS answers, and while for some it saves typing/reading, for others it only serves to create confusion.
I think it is because Josh didn't spell it out as I did - he assumed you would already be familiar with the way potions and magic items work, and take from it that alchemy works the same way. I have seen a similar trend in other CS answers, and while for some it saves typing/reading, for others it only serves to create confusion.

Exactly. And I think the fact that the alchemical item format is a combination of the rituals format and the magic items format was contributing to my confusion.

On a side note, I've got some more answers of mixed usefulness related to the FRPG that I'll post later.
"The Curse of Knowledge: When you know something, it's difficult to imagine what it's like not to know it."

~ Steven Pinker

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Welcome to Icewind Dale (Legacy of the Crystal Shard)

DMing for My Wife (and Our Friends) (Lost Mine of Phandelver)

 

I asked CS about timing of Divine Challenge damage, whether it acted like an interrrupt or a reaction.


The damage from Divine Challenge is done before the mark attacks. So if you deal enough damage to kill it, the attack will not go through.

I asked about the various wands in Adventurer's Vault that add a little extra flourish to specific wizard/warlock powers and that also have that specific power built-in. I asked whether the "flourish" applied to just the built-in power or whether a wizard/warlock casting that power on their own could get the wand's enhancement. (FYI, I used the master's wand of magic missile as an example.)

Fortunately, CS said:
The property from Master's Wand of Magic Missile applies to Magic Missile, both cast by a Wizard or from the Wand.

"The Curse of Knowledge: When you know something, it's difficult to imagine what it's like not to know it."

~ Steven Pinker

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Welcome to Icewind Dale (Legacy of the Crystal Shard)

DMing for My Wife (and Our Friends) (Lost Mine of Phandelver)

 

I asked how radiant vulnerability interacts with insubstantial. The answer is that the raw radiant damage from the initial attack is halved by insubstantial, but any additional radiant damage added by the vulnerability is not halved.

So a spectre taking 8 radiant damage from an attack would take 4 from the attack + 5 from the vulnerability for a total of 9.
I assume you need to move them out and back in to get the repeat damage, which is too bad. Otherwise you could get 5x damage with this simple slide:

s xxxxx e<br /> a<br /> <br /> s = start<br /> e = end<br /> a = attacker

It looks like the damage triggers when they enter the zone, not on entering one of the spaces in the zone. Or maybe not? It depends on what "If a creature enters the barrier’s space" means.

Can't get 5x, but you can get 3x...

2 4<br /> s1x3x5e<br /> a

...since a slide does not have to be a straight line. Heck, in the original posting, the character could have gotten 3x damage from entering the first square, doubling back over it, then tripling back into it (not to mention leaving it in the Blade Barrier for the beginning of it's turn):

s123B s543B s56 B<br /> BBB BBB BBB<br /> a a a

Slides and zones combine for uber-pwnage.
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