4e Skills: a compiled list?

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Hello all. I was wondering if anybody has compiled a list of 4e skills, as I plan to house-rule that my 3.5 game uses them. I for one find 4e skills to be a lot more... meatier and more useful. I agree with the sentiments "Who would hide but not Move Silently?" and "Who would have Spellcraft but not Knowlage(Arcana)?" and would therefore like to do away with the old skill list, but retain 3e usages, ASAP.

Edit- I added my opinion on the subject a few posts down, take a look :D
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The best guess for now is to take the SWSE list, add Craft, Profession and Perform into the mix, then change Use Computer to Use Magic Device and use the D&D knowledges, with Arcana eating Spellcraft.
Nature will probably eat survival.
There's no official list. Though we could deduce about 95+% of it. The best starting point would be SAGA's skill list minus the obvious (Computer Use, Use the Force, etc...).

Specific skills outside of the SAGA list that I've noted:

- Arcana
- Dungeoneering
- Nature

From SAGA we can gather:

- Acrobatics
- Climb
- Deception
- Endurance
- Gather Information
- Initiative
- Jump
- Knowledge
- Mechanics
- Perception
- Persuasion
- Ride
- Stealth
- Survival
- Swim
- Treat Injury

It's very possible that "Knowledge: X" is dead in 4e. Arcana, Dungeoneering and Nature hint to that. Tough to tell what the scope of the former Knowledge skill will take though.

We know that perception is mostly a passive skill now (thanks to the recent traps article). I expect that there are still cases where rolling perception still happens.

Off-hand, that's all I've got.
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Let me show you guys what I posted on EN World
I am not sure if anyone is interested, but here is what I have come up with for my 3e playgroup. I plan to use 4e style skills, and this is what I have come up with.
Acrobatics (dex) [Jump, Tumble, Balance]
Arcana (int) [Use Magic Device, Spellcraft, Knowlage(Arcana, The Planes)]
Athletics (str) [Jump, Climb, Swim]
Bluff (Cha) [Bluff, Disguise]
Diplomacy (Cha) [Diplomacy, Bluff(some usages)]
Dungeoneering (wis/int) [Knowlage(Dungeoneering)/Survival(underground)]
Heal (wis) [Heal, Knowlage(anatomy & physiology)]
History (int) [Knowlage(History, Nobility and royalty, Geography)]
Intimidate (Cha) [Intimidate, Diplomacy(some usages)]
Initiative (dex)
Insight (wis or int) [Sense Motive, Decipher Script, Appraise, Knowlage(Architecture and engineering)]
Language (int) [Speak Language, Decipher Script(some uses), ]
Nature (wis or int) [Survival(woods, etc.), Knowlage(nautre/Geography), Profession(herbalism, etc.)]
Perception (Wis) [Spot, Search, Listen]
Pastime (any as appicable) [Craft (any), Perform(any), Profession(any), Forgery]
Pilot (dex) [Ride, ]
Religion (int or wis) [Knowlage(religion, the planes(some uses))]
Stealth (dex) [Hide, Move Silently]
Streetwise (wis or int) [Knowledge [local], Gather Information, Survival(urban)]
Thievery (dex) [Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Disable Device, Use Rope, Escape Artist]

That's 20 skills if I counted correctly.

The 3e SRD has 36 skills. Tell me what you think guys.
Let your voice be heard! Tell WotC to Publish D&D 4e under the OGL!
Let me show you guys what I posted on EN World

The 3e SRD has 36 skills. Tell me what you think guys.

I believe Climb, Jump and swim should be separate skills. I can climb very, very well. I rock climb as a hobby. I cannot jump to save my life. I can barely swim.
yes, but you are no hero... ;)

i hope there will be possibilities to add numbers on partial aspects of a skill check, or combine a skill check with different ability scores... but maybe its not worth the effort...
I've worked on a skill system in 3.5e keeping the same skill points for each class as they are. The list is the following (in brackets which the new skills comprise of the old ones):

Acrobatics (Balance, Escape Artist, Tumble)
Alchemy (Craft [alchemy])
Calligraphy (Decipher Script, Forgery)
Climb (Climb)
Concentration (Concentration)
Deception (Bluff, Disguise)
Diplomacy (Diplomacy)
Disable Device (Disable Device)
Fingerly [sorry, I'm Italian and I don't know how to translate "Manualità"] (Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Use Ropes)
Gather Information (Gather Information)
Handle Animal (Handle Animal)
Heal (Treat Injury)
Intimidate (Intimidate)
Jump (Jump)
Knowledge (Appraise, Knowlegde [as the old individual knowledges])
Ride (Ride)
Sense Motive (Sense Motive)
Senses (Listen, Search, Spot)
Speak Language (Speak Language)
Spellcraft (Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)
Stealth (Hide, Move Silently)
Survival (Survival)
Swim (Swim)

Craft, Profession and Perform are not presente, the first two for their uselessness, the second is now a special feature of the bard (the only class who added ranks in).
Profession is pretty much confirmed as gone, but Craft is important enough that it'll either stay or get folded into another set of skills. I could see the Knowledge-type skills including Craft.
Acrobatics (tumble, balance, escape artist)
Arcana (knowledge: arcana, spellcraft, and possibly concentration (tho I think concentration is gone))
Climb
Craft
Deception (bluff, disguise)
Dungeoneering
Endurance
Gather information
Initiative
Jump
Nature (knowledge: nature, survival)
Perception (listen, Search, spot)
Persuasion (diplomacy, intimidate)
Stealth (hide, move silently)
Swim
Thievery (pick pockets, open locks, disable traps, slight of hand)
Treat Injury

There are likely a few more knowledge-ish skills and maybe perform. It's likely pretty close tho, even if the names aren't exact.
yes, but you are no hero... ;)

You don't know that... and my fiancee would say otherwise. >:o

Also, skills are used for both heroic and nonheroic characters. So a balance must be found, and in the case of Climb/Jump/Swim they are all general fitness skills, however, they require considerably different knowledge and muscle memory.
You don't know that... and my fiancee would say otherwise. >:o

Also, skills are used for both heroic and nonheroic characters. So a balance must be found, and in the case of Climb/Jump/Swim they are all general fitness skills, however, they require considerably different knowledge and muscle memory.

I think what he means is "you are also unlikely to be able to kill a red dragon after haveing a sword run threw you 12 times, or till a field for 12 hours a day with only a piece of hard tack for food"

D&D skills have never been nore shall they ever be balanced around what a real person can or can't do.
D&D skills have never been nor shall they ever be balanced around what a real person can or can't do.

OMG, quoted!
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I vaguely recall 'lore' appearing as a skill in a D&D article concerning a Vampire Encounter.

Sounds like a catch-all skill for Knowledge: Local and History.
I vaguely recall 'lore' appearing as a skill in a D&D article concerning a Vampire Encounter.

Sounds like a catch-all skill for Knowledge: Local and History.

Interesting...
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This is the list I've been using in my game

Academics
Acrobatics
Arcana
Climb
Craft
Deception
Dungeoneering
Endurance
Heal
Initiative
Insight
Intimidation
Jump
Nature
Perception
Perform
Persuasion
Religion
Ride
Stealth
Streetwise
Swim
Thievery

Pretty close to the lists others have put up. I tossed out Knowledges and folded them either into other skills or into the new skill Academics, which includes history, geography, and some applications of local. If you are talking about who a specific person is, that's streetwise. Nobility and Royalty is included in Persuasion, which is close enough to etiquette that I didn't think it needed a separate skill.

I agree with the above poster that climb, jump and swim should be separate skills. One of the main reasons I used to lump them together was to entice people to get them so no one was stuck not being able to swim, but now that everyone progresses in all skills to some degree, that is no longer a concern.

The real problem I have is that as a bard, I would like to be able to play several instruments, act, and sing. But I do not want to have to spend 5 of my maybe 7 trained skills to get that ability. It seems like there should be a way to simulate being able to do multiple types of performance without forcing a bard to waste all of his skill points simply for flavor.
This is the list I've been using in my game

Academics
Acrobatics
Arcana
Climb
Craft
Deception
Dungeoneering
Endurance
Heal
Initiative
Insight
Intimidation
Intimidation
Jump
Nature
Perception
Perform
Persuasion
Religion
Ride
Stealth
Streetwise
Swim
Thievery

Do you mean to have intimidate there twice, or is that a typo (I assume typo).
Yeah, typo (fixed)
Craft, Profession and Perform are not presente, the first two for their uselessness, the second is now a special feature of the bard (the only class who added ranks in).

craft:
was not useless... but three different crafts for smithing seemed a bit expensive for the usefullness in a system where nothing gets damaged by chance...
craft poison, craft alchemy or craft traps was actually quite good

profession:
there actually were some uses... but I also disencouraged players to get them and instead used them as a commoners skill which combines different uses of other skills:

Profession sailor:
- use rope
- balance
- climb
- survival (not getting lost on sea)
- knowledge (sea)

perform:
really a dumb skill to punish bards... you must have it capped and you got only 4 skillpoints in 3.0
3.5 made it slightly better, but a bard got less versatile... 6 skillpints but each perform skill taken individually

other skils you didn´t mention:

use magic device:
a skill to punish rogues and bards....

concentration:
a skill to punish spellcasters... (why not a caster level check) or for skill uses, or for skills just a skill check...

spellcraft:
a skill to punish spellcasters... (why not knowledge arcane)
craft:
was not useless... but three different crafts for smithing seemed a bit expensive for the usefullness in a system where nothing gets damaged by chance...
craft poison, craft alchemy or craft traps was actually quite good

profession:
there actually were some uses... but I also disencouraged players to get them and instead used them as a commoners skill which combines different uses of other skills:

Profession sailor:
- use rope
- balance
- climb
- survival (not getting lost on sea)
- knowledge (sea)

perform:
really a dumb skill to punish bards... you must have it capped and you got only 4 skillpoints in 3.0
3.5 made it slightly better, but a bard got less versatile... 6 skillpints but each perform skill taken individually

other skils you didn´t mention:

use magic device:
a skill to punish rogues and bards....

concentration:
a skill to punish spellcasters... (why not a caster level check) or for skill uses, or for skills just a skill check...

spellcraft:
a skill to punish spellcasters... (why not knowledge arcane)

Craft: maybe you're right...
Profession: you too can admit it's actually useless in game.
Perform: I'd substitute with a level check or similar.
Use magic device: incorporating it in Spellcraft, it becomes natural rogues to have Spellcraft as a class skill (I never found a player putting any rank in this skill).
Concentration: using a Will saving throw instead of it?
Spellcraft: I mentioned it...
I've worked on a skill system in 3.5e keeping the same skill points for each class as they are. The list is the following (in brackets which the new skills comprise of the old ones):

Acrobatics (Balance, Escape Artist, Tumble)
Alchemy (Craft [alchemy])
Calligraphy (Decipher Script, Forgery)
Climb (Climb)
Concentration (Concentration)
Deception (Bluff, Disguise)
Diplomacy (Diplomacy)
Disable Device (Disable Device)
Fingerly [sorry, I'm Italian and I don't know how to translate "Manualità"] (Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Use Ropes)
Gather Information (Gather Information)
Handle Animal (Handle Animal)
Heal (Treat Injury)
Intimidate (Intimidate)
Jump (Jump)
Knowledge (Appraise, Knowlegde [as the old individual knowledges])
Ride (Ride)
Sense Motive (Sense Motive)
Senses (Listen, Search, Spot)
Speak Language (Speak Language)
Spellcraft (Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)
Stealth (Hide, Move Silently)
Survival (Survival)
Swim (Swim)

Craft, Profession and Perform are not presente, the first two for their uselessness, the second is now a special feature of the bard (the only class who added ranks in).

I think the best way to describe manualita is probably the term sleight of hand. Sleight of hand generally implies some form of finesse with the hands.
My personal guess is skills without combat use (Craft, Profession for the most part, etc) will be removed, and it will be a matter of simply putting in your background that you're a good swordsmith, or you used to be a sailor. Perhaps speak language will be on this list, but I'm not so sure about that one.

Concentration will likely be removed. It mostly served to allow for a possibility of failure when a wizard cast a spell, and now they have to roll like the fighter does. Its purpose doesn't exist anymore, and any scraps left over could simply be caster level checks (or the equivalent).

Other skills I see as being combined:
-Athletics: jump, climb, swim. Regardless of real-world relation between these three, the fact is that they're all situational enough that none of them alone would be worth the skill point as much as one spent in a combined skill (stealth, acrobatics)
-Acrobatics: Balance, tumble, (escape artist?). These two (or three) go together. I can't remember a character in my games who spent points on Balance without spending points in tumble, or vice versa.
-Stealth: Hide, Move Silently.
-Sleight of Hand: Sleight of Hand, Open Lock, Disable Device, (use rope?). Fine dexterity skills.
-Perception: Spot, Listen, Search. Pretty much confirmed.

Knowledge and social skills: they could go several different ways here, so I'm going to leave this out for the time being.
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The PHB is suppost to be set for Galleys. So, a set list of Skills must be arround someplace. :D
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I think the best way to describe manualita is probably the term sleight of hand. Sleight of hand generally implies some form of finesse with the hands.

Oh, you're right! Thanks, I didn't consider it!
Well, here are some skills I know with absolute certainty will be showing up in the new edition.

1) Acrobatics: This skill is a combination of balance and tumble, but not escape artist (which really isn't about acrobatics). Part of escape artist is subsumed into sleight of hand, while the combat portion is now just grappling rules (although sleight of hand would probably give a bonus to opposed grapple checks).

2) Stealth: Combination hide and move silently.

3) Sleight of Hand: Has all the same uses from the old skill, plus it includes escape artist (the ability to escape bonds, handcuffs, etc), and use rope for purposes of tieing someone up really really well. Open locks is not part of this skill, instead becoming part of the mechanics skill. The escape artist function of Sleight of Hand only applies to passive bonds and situations, not against opponents actively trying to maintain a grapple. You could use this to escape out from under a pile of quarterbacks (um... orcs in full plate of course), but you couldn't use this to escape from a person trying to wrestle you to the ground, since he can actively oppose your movements. It does grant a bonus on opposed grapple checks, however, and size does matter in a grapple.

4) Mechanics: This skill includes crafting of gear and pully devices, traps, and opening locks. While some will argue that opening locks requires a certain finesse, a person will never be able to open a lock without first understanding how the locking mechanism works. Sleight of hand would possibly give a +2 bonus for purposes of opening locks, but without this skill it would be virtually impossible for a thief to understand how the lock works.

5) Arcana: Combination of the old Knowledge: Arcana skill with Spellcraft and Use Magic Device. All three skills were logically part of the same thing, which is understanding how magic functions. In its simplest form, it allows a person to understand what all the gibberish on that roll of parchment is, and in its more complex form it allows a person to incant the right words or perform the right actions to activate a magical device.

I'm also fairly certain we'll still see climb, jump, and swim as seperate skills. The craft skills would still be present, although craft: trapmaking is now part of the mechanics skill.

Use rope is gone. Most adventurers are assumed to be able to tie a basic knot. Also, certain professions automatically include variants of use rope. A sailor, for example, knows how to make really sturdy knots and loops for various purposes on ship. Similarly, an executioner who regularly hangs people probably knows a thing or two about nooses. The sleight of hand skill allows for a special exception, and that is turning that 50 feet or so of silk rope into a viable straight jacket.
here is mine, and probably subject to more change/collapsing (i.e. the spellcraft into arcana sounds reasonable to me)



Skill Name Prime Stat Old Skill/s
Assess WIS Appraise & Sense motive
Agility* DEX Balance & tumble
Athleticism** STR Climb, jump & swim
Burglary DEX Disable device & open locks
Concentrate CON
Craft_______ INT
Decryption INT Decipher script & forgery
Disguise CHA
Escape* DEX
Guile CHA Bluff & intimidate
Handle Animal CHA
Heal WIS
Knowledge; INT
Magecraft INT Spellcraft & psicraft
Perform_____ CHA
Politics (subterfuge?) CHA Gather info & diplomacy
Profession___ WIS
Ride DEX
Sleight of Hand* DEX
Status WIS Listen, search & spot
Stealth* DEX Hide & move silent
Survival WIS
Use Device CHA Use magic & use psionic
Use Item DEX Use rope and other

Skill Feats:
Acrobatic +2 agility +2 athleticism
Agile +2 agility +2 escape
Alertness +4 status
Animal affinity +2 handle animal +2 ride
Athletic +4 athleticism
Deceitful +2 disguise +2 decryption
Diligent +2 assess +2 decryption
Deft hands +2 sleight of hand +2 use item
Investigator +2 politics +2 status
Magical aptitude +2 magecraft +2 use device
Negotiator +2 assess +2 politics
Nimble fingers +4 burglary
Persuasive +4 guile
Self sufficient +2 heal +2 survival
Stealthy +4 stealth
Skill focus +3 selected skill
Elf: alertness ½ Elf: investigator Dwarf: Diligent replacing the racial mods

i know some are a bit of a stretch (assess mostly) but there are multiple examples of quite diverse uses of the same skill already
i like and use craft and profession quite a bit for storyline enhancement
Here's my speculation (skills in boldface are one's I imagine will be there):

Arcana (Arc) (Kn-Arcane, Spellcraft)
Acrobatics (Acr) (Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Tumble, Swim)
Bluff (Blf) (Bluff, Disguise)
Diplomacy (Dpl) (Diplomacy, Kn-Nob'ty&Roy'ty)
Dungeoneering (Dng) (Kn-Dungeoneering)
History (Hst) (Kn-Geography, Kn-History)
Husbandry (Hsb) (Animal Handling, Ride)
Insight (Ins) (Appraise, Sense Motive)
Intimidation (Inm) (Intimidate)
Language (Lng) (Speak Language)
Mechanics (Mch) (Disable Device, Kn-Arch&Eng'g, Open Locks, Use Rope)
Nature (Nat) (Heal, Kn-Nature, Survival)
Perception (Per) (Listen, Search, Spot)
Religion (Rlg) (Kn-Planes, Kn-Religion)
Streetwise (Sws) (Gather Info, Kn-Local)
Thievery (Thv) (Decipher Script, Forgery, Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand)

I don't think there will be any money-making skills (Craft, Perform or Profession). I also think Concentration and Use Magic Device have gone the way of the dodo. I think all of that's just going to be background fluff.

That makes sixteen skills, whereas 3rd had nearly 60 (counting each Craft, Knowledge, and Perform separately).
Does anyone know if the craft skill is gone for certain?
At this point I've decided to use in my 3.75 game a skill for each power source. Use Magic Device will be a part of each of these skills. So a rogue wants to use an arcane wand then learn the skill Arcane.
Does anyone know if the craft skill is gone for certain?

Not for certain, though I could see it folded into a skill like Mechanics, along with Disable Device and Open Lock.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
With the Pit FIend article, Bluff, Intimidate and Religion are confirmed skills.
I for one don't like the shrinking skill list.
Yes, it makes character generation and leveling up choices easier, but at the expense of diversity. Also just because you're good at hiding doesn't mean you know how to effectively move silently so combining the 2 skills together doesn't make much sence to me. (but then i actually ADDED like 10 new skills to my 3rd edition games, so what do i know.)
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