My 3.5/4th ed/SAGA hybrid character sheet test :)

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based on Star Wars Saga system, some snippets of what we've heard of 4th ed, etc, here's character sheet I've made up for my own games using a mix of 'em all and my own ideas

1) From Star Wars Saga, Races who have a + bonus to a skill no longer get a bonus, instead they get to re-roll that type of skill check if they chose, but must take the 2nd roll if they opt for a re-roll. For example, elves get +2 Spot, instead, they get to re-roll Perception checks. That's quite neat, IMHO.

2) My own idea: Turn Undead as folk know, is currently broken and too much of a pain. By converting it to an opposed roll, with a -4 for non-intelligent undead like zombies/skeletons, it fixes much of this. Also, no more rolling to see how many hit dice. It just works in 20’ radius, or versus one target out to 60’ at the cleric’s choice, the 60# burst at present is too big!
Also, the cleric shoudl have the option to target one specific foe, liek a vampire lord behind his minions

Having undead with a CR = ½ the cleric’s Turning level, who fail their check, destroyed, I think is a reasonable way to allow destruction of undead by Turning. DMs should still be usign low lvl mindless undead as typical trap/summoned/simple beasties & minions, rather than worrying over the hassles of them, etc. High lvl undead should not be being destroyed by turning, as that's too "cheap" a way to kill 'em.

3) From Star Wars Saga and my own tweak: Each class has a set amount of skills they can choose (plus a bonus from Int modifier if they have any but no penalty), rather than set skill lists, which never made sense. Thus characters can be far more campaign and player specific. Star Wars Saga still limits class skills to certain groups, which is just plain wrong for D&D. Soldiers (fighters) in one millieu/nation, may be totally different than another. For example, Roman legionaries (Perception for sentry duty, Athletics for swimming) vs Cormyr Cavalry (Acrobatics for riding horse, Knowledge Nobility and Royalty to know various standards/forces perhaps)

4) My own tweak to Saga skills: D&D is *not* Star Wars or 21st century Earth. Knowledge and Craft skills are hard to come by, they must be learned, there is no Internet and very few libraries! Thus most of the knowledge skills remain. I merged some of the craft ones. Note that by intelligence or wisdom, a person can understand Nature, hence Survival and Knowledge Nature both give knowledge of nature.
-I think I should add Craft - Jewellry Making, which includes gem cutting.

5) My own tweak: Knowledge of Monsters should be a specific thing in it’s own right! While Knowledge - The Planes would obviously give knowledge of planar monsters because they are so intrinsic to many planes (fiends ot the Abyss etc), linking Knowledge - Religion to undead, Knowledge - Dungeoneering to aberrations etc, doesn’t make much sense. They may give some info, of relevance, but in general, folk should use Knowledge – Monster Lore for typical info on beasties.

6) From 4th ed snippets: *anyone* can use Disable Device on traps etc, provided they have it as a trained skill, ie non-rogues can disable hard traps now. That and the "second Wind" idea reduces the bad dependency on having to have a healer/trap picker that was a problem in D&D up till now.

7) From 4th Ed snippets/SGA system and my own tweak: As a Standard action, anyone can use "Second Wind" to heal themselves for (1/4 of their hit points, or = their Con modifier, which ever is greater, once per day. I don't agree with 2nd wind being used as a Swift action, that doesn't make sense! It's obviously taking time ot have a breather, sort yourself out, bandage or whatever, so, it must be a Standard Action.

8) I put “Forgery” into “Disable Device”, because it’s really a intelligence based skill, requiring a lot of finicky skills, it’s more like making a trap etc. It’s not Deception, nor is it Dexterity based.

9) Bards get too many skills! Most of the truncated skill list is based off SAGA, and then I worked out how many skills each class gets normally that still apply , totalled them up (and said some get extra knowledge skills rather than any choice) Bards get too many skills, IMHO, I don't know how to sort this or if it is a problem?

Until 4th ed comes out, this is what I plan to use in my own games, and test, as it seems quite a fun, cleaner system

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I agree with most of the things here, Silverblade. They make sense IMO.

Don't forget to change the Saves to Defense scores. Instead of Reflex, Fortitude and Will saving throws you have to change them to Defense scores.

I would also add some adapted talent trees from the SAGA rules. For example rangers would use some of the scout's talent trees. The same would happen with the Fighter/ soldier. Warlord's talents would be based on the Noble ones.
Spellcasters would be more difficult to convert.
I would suggest to tie the Clerics talent trees to something equivalent to the spell domains.
Following an specific deity would give the cleric access to specific talent trees. For example Olidammara could give access to the stealth talent tree or some other talent tree related to trickery. The same would happen with other deities and talent trees.

Keep the ideas flowing!!!!!!
Regarding Second Wind:

It's 1/4 of your hit points or your Con score, whichever is higher (rather than Con Mod), and can only be used when reduced below 1/2 hit points, though Saga characters start with 3(hit die) HP. I mention it because it looks like it might be an oversight, but you didn't mention it being a conscious change. It is intended to be *much* more powerful at low levels than it is at high levels. The way you've written it, low HP characters will be getting very little back from this for the critical low levels. If I'm a 1d4 wizard with a starting HP of 12 (Con 11), and am reduced to 2 in a single attack, my second wind will only give me 3 instead of 11. If it gave me my Con score I'm safe for one more hit, barring a critical, as I'm back at 12. Having to rely on my pitiful 1/4 HP I'm at 5 and the last hit I took was for 9...

That said, the existence of any version in your game automatically makes Wizards less fragile than Core 3.5.

As for the "swift action", in Saga it's conceptually Han, pinned by blaster fire, takes a deep breath (second wind), moves, and shoots all on his turn. That said I can understand your reasons, and so long as a character can Second Wind and move/do something else (i.e. not a full-round-action) then it feels like a valuable decision to make (make it's use too costly and it becomes a "durr, save it for when you're going to die and have no other options" rather than a resource to be used strategically).

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
who, squatting upon the ground,
held his heart in his hands, and ate of it.
I said, "is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter – bitter," he answered;
"but I like it,
"beacuase it is bitter,
"and because it is my heart."

ah true enough I'll move the amount healed to 1/4 or Con whichever is best

Oh yeah that's how I see it's use too, but, Han did not do it almost instanlty, which is what a Swift action is. Instead Second WInd should be an important, but as you say, not too penalizing action, so, Standard action seems fine: Han takes cover (move) steadies himself (standard), then goes out blasting on his next turn!

Thanks for the feedback, both of ya
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