EXP penalty for crafting

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I thought I would throw this out there, since the rules are going through what seems to be a massive revision for 4E.

What I would like to see possibly change for 4E is the EXP cost for creating magical items go away. My suggestion would be to replace it with a hit directly to the Attributes, Strength and Con for instance, that would regenerate over time. The larger and more complex the item the larger the hit and the longer to regenerate. Especially complicated items would take a long time to finish as one would have to wait to regain strength to continue.

My reason, how can you possibly 'lose' experience from an action, like you learn something then forget it. And i know experience is also supposed to be physical growth and maturation, so what, you anti-mature phsyically when you craft something. That inch you grew last year is reversed??

Personally, a hit to the attributes seems a better notion to me for 'putting your being' into an object. For example, if i wanted to create a kick ass ring, if im in the middle of a quest it leaves me vulnerable for a few days as i regenerate physically from the drain. If you're in downtime alls the better, 'cause you can take the week to rest up and regain strength.

Let me know what you all think, again, im simply throwing it out there.
It's already been stated that XP costs for crafting are out.

The theory (at least one theory) as to the XP drain was because you were putting some of your life essence into the work to bind it; the same life essence that can be sapped by undead creatures (causing level loss).

Or, it was just a balancing mechanic, take your pick.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
You spark my curiosity, is there somewhere on the web where this was announced, or is it merely notated in one of the books about 4E that are out (and dont wish to buy at the moment, as the actual books themselves are going to be out soon)

:-)
You spark my curiosity, is there somewhere on the web where this was announced, or is it merely notated in one of the books about 4E that are out (and dont wish to buy at the moment, as the actual books themselves are going to be out soon)

:-)

You can check out all the accumulated info on 4th edition at Enworld which cites its sources. I recommend you book mark this site.
Direct links to the topic of xp and magic items: here and here.
I am all for removing xp costs, but only because it broke the game. Xp loss is self correcting, so you will eventually get your xp back, and still benefit from magic gear at 1/2 price.

My reason, how can you possibly 'lose' experience from an action, like you learn something then forget it. And i know experience is also supposed to be physical growth and maturation, so what, you anti-mature phsyically when you craft something. That inch you grew last year is reversed??

It is a game balance mechanic, nothing more. By definition, item creation should be cheaper than buying it on the open market (or in the very least, no more expensive). But you needed something to balance out the fact that you were effectively accessing magic eq at a discount. Apart from gp, the only other "real" currency in dnd was xp.

Plus, xp is not necessarily just physical growth. It can represent, say, a portion of your own soul or lifeforce.
Magic item creation has to deal with a couple questions:

First is: Should PCs be allowed to acquire any magic item they want solely based on item cost?

Two: Should PCs be able to spend time to make money? And if so, how much money will they make and what's to stop them from completely breaking the wealth/level guidelines?

Based on the attitude in the Magic item compendium, I'm pretty sure the designers believe that "Yes" is the answer to the first question.

The second question though is a bit more tricky. Offhand, I'd say they should establish a rate of how much a day's work (non-dangerous) earns a skilled character. Then simply set the cost of making an item equal to the market price minus the amount of you'd get back from your labor. That way the item crafter isn't making any more (or that much more) than a master cartographer or architect. Whatever this amount is, it shouldn't be anywhere close to how much money you'd make by adventuring, as a single adventure should cover at least a year's pay for working a mundane safe job, if not more.

Further, you should be able to make items faster by pouring in more gold (making the process inefficient and wasteful). This process would commonly be used by adventurers however, since they often don't have three months to wait for a ring of protection to be crafted.
Xp was exactly the reason me and a few others would never ever make items. Plus the time was just silly because the adventuring group was always on the move. I'd rather save the money to buy a magic item rather than go out and make one myself for months and months.

Glad to see it gone. Wasn't there exp cost for mundane-item creation too? I hope thats gone as well. I mean you aren't putting your lifeforce into a non-masterwork longsword you made o_o just putting time and hard work in.
Wasn't there exp cost for mundane-item creation too?

No.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
in my old (old,old) system i had the creators take con drain-ouch!
this encouraged groups of dedicated individuals to 'pool' their abilites and spread the drain out amongst the council, we liked it fine
exp based creation is a mechanic i like, you are putting some of your essence or what not into the item, reducing yourself accordingly but with a definite benefit. sure you can get that experience back, but you will probably be at least one level behind the party for crafting that/those items. can it be broken or circumvented? well what mechanic can't?
what are they going to use now?
I agree. In 2nd edition Crafteing actually gave you XP...
in my old (old,old) system i had the creators take con drain-ouch!

There were magic ceremonies in Basic D&D that caused a permanent CON drain. I revised it IMC to a six-month heal period per point lost to make it still very significant but not permanent. One of my players had their character perform this week-long ceremony twice.

The Piazza A renaissance of the Old Worlds. Where any setting can be explored, any rules system discussed, and any combination of the two brought to life.

I don't know what method they will use in 4E, but the best method they have tried to date [in my opinion] was the RPGA rules.
1: Haveing an item creation feat simply gave you a price break on buying items of that type [for flavor I suppose your knowledge of trade secrets encouraged the shop keep to give you the fraternal discount].
2: The value of magic items you could buy was limited by your level. The character with a creation feat could get around this limit slightly for items of the correct type and could do so on behalf of other PCs.
Example [A wizard with craft wonderous item can use his discount to buy slippers of spider climb for less money and thus at a lower level then normal. He could do this for the party rogue, who's level is to low to buy them himself at this time].
System works great...
Main problem with the item creation rules was that for anyone except an artificer they sucked. Fully. No doubt, no question. Anyone who thinks otherwise has obviously never made an item by the rules given in the books. They were only useful at lower levels, where the xp smack hurt a lot and finding magical items were difficult.
Let me explain:
From lvl 9 - 10 you should gain 13Kgp according to pg135 in DMG. This means - your item maker, assuming a party of four, would usually end up sitting out 52days crafting items for everyone. Now - add gp loss from not adventuring for that long. Suddenly the items costed a lot more than they did even bought from the store. And it only gets sillier. 200 days from 14 - 15.
Make item creation quicker, take no xp, hell, lessen the extra cheapness. It's a feat - we should benefit from it. I've never had anyone who isn't an artificer ever take item creation in a campaign because it is impractical and non-profitable. Spend those 200 days levelling and getting money and go buy better items. And have fun while you do it.
Let me explain:
From lvl 9 - 10 you should gain 13Kgp according to pg135 in DMG. This means - your item maker, assuming a party of four, would usually end up sitting out 52days crafting items for everyone. Now - add gp loss from not adventuring for that long. Suddenly the items costed a lot more than they did even bought from the store. And it only gets sillier. 200 days from 14 - 15.

I bolded the part that's wrong. This isn't a MMORPG. You don't "lose" gold for using time to do stuff other than adventure. The only time that matters is time spent at the table. There are no constant ticking clock in D&D, and creating items takes virtual no time in the real world. What actually matters is the playing time it takes for you to attain wealth.

Does your DM seriously tell you "ok, you're item crafting... now wait 200 days before you can play the next session."

No, it's actually like "ok, you take 200 days crafting your sword of ultimate doom.. now it's done."

Then you go on an adventure.

It's not like you miss out on any fun because you happened to be item crafting, not unless your party is a bunch of jerks who leave you behind and don't wait for you to finish making the item. In which case, that's more of a player problem than a problem with the feat. If you've got bad team players who must use every waking hour of their character's day towards adventuring... then obviously something that involves you using game-time to make profit is a bad idea.

Other than that, game-time is incredibly cheap. You can pass 2 years of game-time in 5 seconds of real-time at the table, so who even cares how long it takes to make an item. It's not like your characters are going to die of old age.

Often, 1 week is the same as 3 months as far as game-time is concerned.