4e armored elves

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Is anyone besides me bothered by the elves in plate armor issue? I have heard from multiple sources that the 4e rule set gives elves a bonus to movement rate, a good thing. But players are using the bump to movement to negate the movement penalty for heavy armor! Yeah just what we need Legolas in full plate. Clearly for role playing reasons any advantage elves gain in movement should be contingent upon wearing light armor. Save the heavy armor for the stumpy legged dwarves!
Weren't all the elves that we saw fighting in LotR movies that weren't Legolas wearing full plate?
If extra movement is a benefit of being an elf, why should they be punished for wearing heavy armor? I have seen plenty of depictions of elves wearing heavy armor all across fantasy.
I like the extra movement idea. It kind of makes the elves of normal D&D similar to the ones from Dark Sun.
I am glad to hear it, as well as to know that it is optional as is most of what we have heard (mages in armor has gotten a lot of response, both positive and negative, as well).

And on the matter of elves in plate, has anyone else ever played a Champion of Corellon? Fast moving, heavily armored, warrior elves for the win!

An elf in plate is just like a dwarf in leather, you really don't know what to expect anymore... but in a good way.
Elves should wear plate every now and then. Not all of them or anything, but Elven Knights ought to exist.
Weren't all the elves that we saw fighting in LotR movies that weren't Legolas wearing full plate?

More like banded mail, actually.

But the point certainly stands - there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the elf in full plate. Although their natural abilities may still encourage them to wear something else.

The way I'd look at it between elves and dwarves is that elves naturally have a faster movement that is then slowed down by armour - so they're not as slow as other races in armour, but an elf with the same feats in light armour may have the speed to be able to pepper the slower races with ranged attacks with immunity - they still have incentive to wear lighter armours. Dwarves, on the other hand, aren't slowed down in the first place, so based purely on speed alone they have no incentive not to wear heavier armours.
Admittedly still using 3rd Edition terminology which may not be wholly accurate in 4th ... If your elf has a 12 DEX or less and Heavy Armor Proficiency, wearing Full Plate is probably a good idea.

There's no reason an elf wouldn't wear heavy armor if it's the best choice available given his preferences and abilities.

Every time someone uses an example from one author as an excuse to complain about something irrelevant, it makes me that much happier I don't read novels. What Legolas may, or may not, have done is irrelevant. He is not a D&D character.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
  • D&D =/= LOTR
  • Legolas =/= all elves
  • Cramming all members of a race into a single iconic image = bad idea
  • D&D =/= LOTR
  • Legolas =/= all elves
  • Cramming all members of a race into a single iconic image = bad idea

Your math is impeccable, Mr. Pants.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
If elves have an extra speed boost that can counteract the penalty of heavy armor then they still have an incentive not to wear heavy armor. Sure they move at normal speed in the armor, but they'd move even faster without it. I'd imagine that for the character archetypes that prefer speed (elf rogue, elf ranger), the extra defence of heavy armor would still be less advantageous then the speed they're giving up.
Is anyone besides me bothered by the elves in plate armor issue? I have heard from multiple sources that the 4e rule set gives elves a bonus to movement rate, a good thing. But players are using the bump to movement to negate the movement penalty for heavy armor! Yeah just what we need Legolas in full plate. Clearly for role playing reasons any advantage elves gain in movement should be contingent upon wearing light armor. Save the heavy armor for the stumpy legged dwarves!

Who says that elven increased movement will work in heavy armor? I mean every movement bonus in 3.x was either negated by heavy armor or reduced. And well I don't really see a reason for 4th edition to change that.
If elves have an extra speed boost that can counteract the penalty of heavy armor then they still have an incentive not to wear heavy armor. Sure they move at normal speed in the armor, but they'd move even faster without it.

wow it took 11 posts for someone to state the obvious point missed in the thread.nothing has ever stopped elves from wearing armor. there are plenty of elven paladins running around in plate. But a racial speed boost is still not going to put scouts in plate.
A boost in speed is going to motivate elves to avoid armor, if it slows them down. The great thing about moving faster than your opponents is that you cheat them out of melee combat. Every action you get over your opponents brings you that much closer to defeating them.
well I remember reading some were in the new 4th ed articals that there is not going to be to many changes to the way armer interacts with the PC. Now it also said that it is early and that this may change. I personally have no issues with allowing every race ware heavy armer and penalizing them all the same, Unless they have a racial benefit like the dwarves...

So if the Elf wants to ware heavy armer at the expense of movement then let them.... I do not think that it is fair to put a restriction on them to get the bonus. I believe that the R&D team at WOC are trying to get away from that. That was the norm with 3.0 and 3.5 D&D but not with 4.0. My understanding is that they would like to remove most or all restrictions and make every thing for all races and classes Equal but to have certain races excel at certain things more than the others.

This is what I under stand:
4 ED = Less restrictions and penalties for the PC.
4 ED = Streamlined game that has balanced classes, races, skills, powers
4 ED = Character options and more powers, not more monsters and thier unique powers
4 ED = More story driven

I am sure that there other points that I am missing but I am sure that you get the point that I was trying to make about the armored elf.
wow it took 11 posts for someone to state the obvious point missed in the thread.nothing has ever stopped elves from wearing armor. there are plenty of elven paladins running around in plate. But a racial speed boost is still not going to put scouts in plate.

*cough*

The way I'd look at it between elves and dwarves is that elves naturally have a faster movement that is then slowed down by armour - so they're not as slow as other races in armour, but an elf with the same feats in light armour may have the speed to be able to pepper the slower races with ranged attacks with immunity - they still have incentive to wear lighter armours. Dwarves, on the other hand, aren't slowed down in the first place, so based purely on speed alone they have no incentive not to wear heavier armours.

Seventh post.
What will be next? Elves with great swords?

ejem...
the funny thing is that 4e elves are closer to Lotr elves now than before.

Now elves are as tall or more than humans.
Now elves are closer to nature and they features and description is less arcanish.
Now elves are helps others to see what they see, just like in the lord of the ring when legolas tell aragorn about the riders and how the captain is taller than the others and others features like his feet size.
the funny thing is that 4e elves are closer to Lotr elves now than before.

Well, nobody said 4E wasn't going to have its sucky parts.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Seventh post.

Sorry missed that one..

Anyway now that the elf has been released we see they get 7 square movement. Wearing heavy armor in 3.x reduced 6 square movement to 4 square movement. It leads me to assume then that armor penalties will simply bee square reduction so heavy armor will cost 2 squares dropping the elf to 5 squares.

That's my wild theory.
The way I'd look at it between elves and dwarves is that elves naturally have a faster movement that is then slowed down by armour - so they're not as slow as other races in armour, but an elf with the same feats in light armour may have the speed to be able to pepper the slower races with ranged attacks with immunity - they still have incentive to wear lighter armours. Dwarves, on the other hand, aren't slowed down in the first place, so based purely on speed alone they have no incentive not to wear heavier armours.

It depends on whether or not dwarves will have a base lower speed in this edition. I sincerely hope not.

There's always an incentive to be faster. It's up to the player to weigh the benefits and disadvantages of doing so.
I'm not bothered by the idea in the least. If a character wants to still be fast in the heaviest armor, and chooses a race because of this, that should be their prerogative. I doubt elves in full plate will be moving than the base speed of humans. They may move just as fast, which is ok with me, but so long as they are still slowed by armor, that is just fine with me.
Let your voice be heard! Tell WotC to Publish D&D 4e under the OGL!
Hooray for pigeonholes and stereotypes!

Let's make it so Dwarves can't use magic at all again! That was fun, wasn't it?
Hooray for pigeonholes and stereotypes!

Let's make it so Dwarves can't use magic at all again! That was fun, wasn't it?

Funny how ambiguous the terms 'archetype' and 'stereotype' are. :D
Let your voice be heard! Tell WotC to Publish D&D 4e under the OGL!
The difference between archetypes and stereotypes is that you don't have to follow an archetype if you don't really feel like it.
It depends on whether or not dwarves will have a base lower speed in this edition. I sincerely hope not.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Dwarf speed at 5 squares.

Which, is they then aren't slowed by heavy armour, would be great compared to humans (and similar).
The Elf may still run faster in plate armor, but don't forget that there MIGHT still be a 'max dexterity when wearing this armor'.

With a +2 Dex being one of their primary advantages, it would only be a character who didn't follow the encouraged racial pattern who'd be wearing armor that gives them a 12 max dexterity.

Granted, if plate armor tends to reduce the movement by a set number of squares, the elf's increase of 1 square becomes a larger advantage. However, if the movement is reduced by a % and then rounded down like a lot of things in D&D, the elf's movement advantage disapears.

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