Value Added Crafting

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I have a question about the craft skill for, I guess, people familiar with Saga (since I suspect the new skill systems will be similar).

How are purely value added craft skills handled?

I mean, for artistic endevours, or jewelry.

It seems odd that in 3rd ed -- to produce a wood carving, for example -- one must spend a huge amount of money on supplies to make a valuable carving.

So I can't just take a free piece of driftwood and use my dagger to carve it and produce an item that has any value at all (since I didn't spend any money on materials).

Or maybe making jewlry, like a gold ring. Making a simple gold ring doesn't require any more gold than just a single gold piece, snd I'm not really usign up any more materials than the gold itself and whatever coal I need to melt the gold and whatever other disposable sundries (with a mostly negligible value, I would think) I might need.

Or a painting, or a drawing? Do I really need to go through hundreads of pencils to produce a valuable drawing?

How does Saga handle making something valuable out of something valueless?
From the 3.5 SRD :
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm)

You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)

But as some D&D designer said, the game is about being an adventurer, not a successful crafter/artist/aubergist/mayor/ ...

I have a campaign where the PCs have a job in a workshop (both as a cover, and to have something to do between adventures), but I don't even use the above rule : I say that all money gained working is invested back into the workshop or to pay the rent, and that's all.

D&D economy is just used to allow the players to buy/sell stuff, it is not intented to be a realist economic model.
From the 3.5 SRD :
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm)



But as some D&D designer said, the game is about being an adventurer, not a successful crafter/artist/aubergist/mayor/ ...

I have a campaign where the PCs have a job in a workshop (both as a cover, and to have something to do between adventures), but I don't even use the above rule : I say that all money gained working is invested back into the workshop or to pay the rent, and that's all.

D&D economy is just used to allow the players to buy/sell stuff, it is not intented to be a realist economic model.

A lot of win in this post, good sir or madam.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I agree that jtrowell's post is good. But his screen name is remarkably similar to "j troll"... :D
I agree that jtrowell's post is good. But his screen name is remarkably similar to "j troll"... :D

I assumed his real first initials and last name were 'J.T. Rowell', myself.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
In fact my usual nickname/pseudo is "Jack Trowell", from my first character in Vampire back in the old days (aaaargh, going to be 30 years old in a few weeks !)

I made the name up from scratch, a a first version *was* a "J. Rowell", so you're not too far Salla. :D

Back on topic, I expect 4th edition to remove craft and profession skills, while easily allowing to maybe give them for free as character flavor (some loose ruling about "non-adventuring skills")
Back on topic, I expect 4th edition to remove craft and profession skills, while easily allowing to maybe give them for free as character flavor (some loose ruling about "non-adventuring skills")

That troubles me. If they're some kind of "free background perk", I have a player who will FILL his character sheet with them. He plays a cleric that:

- started the game with ranks in Craft (gemcutting)
- purchased some ranks in Profession (herbalism)
- then, after their NPC teamster quit the job, decided to take over and took ranks in Profession (teamster)

Imagine what he'd do if he didn't need Concentration, Knowledges and Spellcraft!
That troubles me. If they're some kind of "free background perk", I have a player who will FILL his character sheet with them. He plays a cleric that:

- started the game with ranks in Craft (gemcutting)
- purchased some ranks in Profession (herbalism)
- then, after their NPC teamster quit the job, decided to take over and took ranks in Profession (teamster)

Imagine what he'd do if he didn't need Concentration, Knowledges and Spellcraft!

That's sort of neat, and I admire his attention to non-combat character building. I'm curious: how much opportunity do you provide in your games for him to use his "downtime" crafting skills, does he get much enjoyment out of crafting, and how do the other players react to it?
That's sort of neat, and I admire his attention to non-combat character building. I'm curious: how much opportunity do you provide in your games for him to use his "downtime" crafting skills, does he get much enjoyment out of crafting, and how do the other players react to it?

That is really the key to the thread right there. How much non-adventuring (classic dungeon or social-political) downtime does your table sit through? One game I play in has a pretty hefty amount of role-play but when it comes time to deal with potion and wand making, or even the rogue's artistic make-up skills (disguise skill) being used to earn some side profit, it is glazed over unless the interactions are also campaign plot line related.

The DM and a player actually playing out their time gem cutting and brewing while the rest of the players sitting around for 30 minutes is not my idea of fun. It gets worse when the DM tries to "balance" things by letting each person have their time. suddenly you are killing two hours or more in one on one play.

YMMV, but I would expect most tables to find this style more annoying than fun.