Turn Undead is being fixed, right?

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A big deal has been made about simplifying grapple, so I hope that similar attention is given to the much more byzantine turn undead mechanic. I myself love the direct damage variant from 3e complete divine because it is simple and effective at all levels of play. Although I'm not married to turn attempts doing direct damage; I wouldn't mind keeping the traditional effects of turning so long as it remains consistently effective at all levels. Read: clerics should have to overcome an undead's CR, not its HD!
The zombie article suggests that turn undead has been replaced with more limited repel undead ability that just keeps them away from the cleric. How it works is not addressed at all. Given the way 4e seems to work though, I would suspect it is an attack vs the undead's will save.

I would hope that smite undead is an option for clerics also if turn has been reduced in power dramatically. But nothing has mentioned yet.

Jay
Even beyond the fact that it gets pretty useless at high levels, I've never been fond of Turn Undead. First, you have the weirdness that every cleric, philosophy, and god on the face of the universe has some bugaboo about undead. Pelor, Wee Jas, Obad-Hai, I get. Kord? Olidammara? Why would they care?

Secondly, depending on how the DM adjucates it, when it works it's either overpowered or useless. Either the undead run off and are never seen again, effectively destroying them even if the turning didn't, or they come back a few rounds later and all you did was, perhaps, buy some time that you probably didn't even need.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Turn Undead does not become useless at higher levels. The only useless feature is that it does not turn Outsiders anymore which was a fan requested feature.

At higher levels, when a cleric may face multiple powerful liches or vampires or ghosts, Turn Undead becomes a feature to help forestall teamwork between intelligent undead or to enlist the power of such an evil being, should the cleric be evil.

As to goodly cleric disliking of undead, consider what the powerful undead do in the world: most are evil and most render cadavers incapable of being raised except by the most powerful of spells (True Resurrection). This hampers goodly clerics who desire to keep a safe stronghold inhabited by those who live their natural lifespans. Also, notice how most goodly outsiders do not dabble with undead minions while most evil outsiders do.

Finally, this is not entirely true for all campaign settings: those which have a valorization of good necromancy will indulge good undead, alternate abilities of undead, clerical powers dealing with communication with spirits for information and assistance rather than turning, etc.
It doesn't really bother me that all clerics have some type of relationship with undead, but it would be much cooler if turn/rebuke was one of several options available to a divine caster.
It doesn't really bother me that all clerics have some type of relationship with undead, but it would be much cooler if turn/rebuke was one of several options available to a divine caster.

...and it would be cooler still if turn/rebuke was a list of options, like favoured enemy. Why not a preist of Corellan Lorethian (sp?) who turns Goblinoids? Or a cleric of Pelor (sp?) who turns Shadowfell creatures? Or even a divine personal trainer of Kord who can rebuke intelligent beings under 10 strength? (okay... that last one is stupid)
I think turning should be a feat or talent in a tree that allows you to select from a list of targets, appropriate to the clerics faith/philosophy. I also like the idea of turning doing damage rather than the fear/destroy effect.

The books with feats that allowed other abilities to be used were something I liked too.
Other than the rule being fixed (as it most certainly will be), I like the tactical options that arise from "turn undead keeps them at bay, not sends them running off".

If, say, the cleric turns undead to keep 5 of 8 zombies at bay, it "forces" the party to stay packed close together to avoid the greater pack. Then, assuming this has a duration and the cleric is free in following rounds to attack, the party finishes off the 3 zombies that kept attacking and moves past the turned ones.

Now that's pretty boring, but imagine the "multiple kinds of monsters" philosophy of 4E. The zombies are not alone, but supported by a spellcaster (necromancer, anyone?). Then the cleric turns the undead, essentially forming a zombie wall around the group. But now they're vulnerable to fireball (and fireballs score crits!). So the rogue will need to tumble about (acrobat talent tree, anyone?) the zombies and get at the necromancer. The zombies then (if they're controlled by the caster, otherwise they should be too stupid to care) move to attack the rogue. The wizard needs to do something about that...

And so on, so on.

Much better than the Cleric turns undead, the zombies run off for 10 rounds while the necromancer stands there, alone and unprotected as the fighter charges at him.

All in all, I think turn undead will be much cooler the way it seems to work in 4E. Provided that the rule is changed to something less cryptic (attack vs. will, as has been said above). And not making it an automatic cleric feature is also a nice idea. Give the cleric choice between turning undead or, I don't know, wearing heavy armor.
I didn't have a problem with undead turning in 3.x. True, higher level undead were hard to get, but if you focused on Turning by having a good charisma, taking a feat or two, and prepping the right spells, it still had a good chance of being effective, even against turn resistance.

It also gave the cleric a chance to shine, which (depending on the kind of cleric you built) was an infrequent occasion.

In 4e, I'm fine with turning being thrown in as an optional clerical talent/power.
Clerics a chance to shine? I don't know who your clerics are but they need to play with some of the guys I know. Clerics rock so hard they are already a prestige class.

The problem with turn is it is all or nothing. Super butt-kicking for justice or useless.

Undead are especially nasty encounters for their CR and turn undead vulnerability is taken into account. The Radiant Cheese Weasels and Disciple of the Sun turn them to piles of ash... so much for that encounter. But really, no one complains when it happens because facing undead is staggeringly yucky without an effective turning cleric. I really hope that turn undead is weaker and undead are accordingly less nasty.



....
"We got rid of the advanced Bodaks the old fashioned way!"
"How is that? You bring a Pelorite?"
"Nah we dominated the cleric of Nerull who was the commander"
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