Yoink, Yuck & Iunno

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Let me preface this by saying I have already decided that I will not be buying 4e unless the system is so spectacularly wonderful that I orgasm when flipping through the core book in the shop. I am quite happy with tweaking 3e and I don't see the need for anything more than tweaks.

That said, I do recognise that 4e has some decent ideas which I will most likely nick for my own games. So, here I'm gong to list the things I like, don't like and not sure about.


Talents. I've always liked talents, ever since I got hold of d20 Modern. I think I'll mod the classes so they get talents.

Skills. Combining certain skills makes sense. Hide/Move Silent = Stealth. Consider it used.

Racials. Racial abilities having greater impact? And for longer? yes thanks.

Magic items. No need for a feat for each type of item. Sounds good to me. Also, no more xp drain for crafting? Brilliant! I'm going back to the way 2ed did it. Kind of. Find a recipie, gather the materials, make item. Maybe there will be a slight chance of Con damage or something if you stuff up.[Edited in]


Alignment. Sorry, I like alignment the way it is. I see no need to change it. Possibly clear up the definitions but thats it.

Devils & Demons. Again, no. Devils = Lawful and Demons = chaotic irrespective of what they look like. I've never had a problem using them like this so I see no reason for change here.

Skills. SAGA style. Nope. Even the Star Wars player in my group doesn't like it. I'll stick with skillpoints thanks.

Maneuvres. No, If I wanted to play a swordsage, I'd play a swordsage. I like ToB but thats not how I envision my Crusading Knight(TM).

More powerful 1st level. Also no. If I wanted to be three times as tough as the town guard, I'd start the game at level 3.


Magic. Getting rid of Vancian is good. What they're replacing it with..well I haven't seen enough to truely know how I feel about it. The Traditions put me right off though.

I'll update this list as I get more info.

So how about you? Whats your Yes/No/Shrug list like?
I hope you browse the 4e books at arms' length...

Since I'll be buying 4e, I guess I'm gonna 'yoink' the whole thing. The wizard tradition thing has been the aspect that's given me the most reservations, but it's possible that seeing the whole elephant will get me on side.

What I like about 4e (some more rumored than confirmed) is the following.
  • The new magic system, with Vancian banished to the outhouse.
  • De-emphasis of alignment.
  • No more level drain or save vs die/suck.
  • Race given a greater role, and magic items given a lesser one (Sayonara, Xmas tree)
  • Talent trees for classes
  • Monsters and NPCs that don't take forever to create
  • Toughened 1st-level heroes, permitting more spectacular fights from the outset.
  • Faster, more fluid combat, and less work for the DM (both before and during the game)
  • Classes being able to use class-related abilities in every encounter
I don't really have a Yes/No/Meh list, but I do have opinions. So, I'll pick apart yours and give my opinions on them.

Talents: There must be something similar. I love the flexibility.
Skills: Saga-size skill list, KISS this. This is mandatory if a skill point system is kept (which will bother me if it is, I like the Saga system).
Racial Impact: I love it. Scalable racial ability, effectively racial paragon replacement-levels built into character progression, I like it.
Alignment: Remove it as a Mechanic, its nothing more than character information.
Devils & Demons: I love the change. It makes more sense to me, which means more fun for me.
Maneuvers: Not a huge fan of them, but they can work as a mechanic add-on for some classes.
More powerful 1st level: Hell yes. The average town guard is a 4th-level non-heroic anyway.
Magic: Holding on making a decision yet. I like what I've seen in Saga, ToB and ToM, so my hopes are high.

Talents: No reason not to use them, though I never agreed with THEIR definition of "dead levels"

More Powerful First Level: This, to me is one of those "duh, why didn't I think of that" ideas. Characters are a step above the common man, having more story durability

Racial Impact: Yes, please. Can I get some cultural impact to go with that?


Eladrin: I'm keeping elves as they are, and they are not gaining the name eladrin

Magic Traditions: I'm keeping the old schools of magic. I have no use for traditions


Alignment: I generally don't pay much attention to unless a character is grossly evil whilst claiming good. Otherwise, it just affects spells.

Demons & Devils: I use my own cosmology, so I don't much care. Never used the eyrinies much either

Magic: Don't like the vancian system, but not overly fond of per encounter. I'd rather a spell point system that works.

Item Focuses: I like the idea of using a staff, wand, orb or other item to replace material components, but not much interested in the way their going with them as required items that grant only certain spell paths.
I apologize if this sounds snarky, because I do not intend it as such, but isn't this thread in effect capturing the essence of Rule 0?
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