Ability increases?

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I haven't seen anything but I haven't had time to look on the boards lately.

But does anyone know if characters will still be getting ability increases at set character levels?

If they are, and the designers are still open for suggestions, I have an idea for a change. How about adjusting specific abilities for specific classes at set levels?

An x-level fighter would get a +1 to his/her strength. That would show that as the fighter continues to use his martial abilities he would get stronger and also show that as their age increases they would not grow weaker as fast as normal people.

An x-level cleric would get a +1 to his/her wisdom. That would show that as they grow closer to their god they would become wiser. This would reflect the idea of the wise old priest of the church.

An x-level rogue would get a +1 to his/her dexterity. That would show that as they continually do small tedious or balancing work they would become more "sure footed". This would reflect that a high wire performer would get better with years of experience and a watch maker will become faster and better with years of experience.

An x-level wizard would get a +1 to his/her intelligence. That would show that as they continually read and study the art they learn and become smarter. That one is pretty self-explanatory. The more that you read the more knowledge you will gain.

An x-level warlock would get a +1 to his/her charisma. I really can't think of a good example for why charisma other then that is their primary ability for their powers.

Now the other classes would get increases but they would alternate between two abilities.

An x-level barbarian would get a +1 to his/her strength and at the next x-level he/she would get a +1 to constitution. I hope you can see why I picked those abilities without me giving examples.

An x-level ranger would get a +1 to his/her dexterity and at the next x-level he/she would get a +1 to wisdom. That would show their increased ability to move through the forests and survive in them that they have to learn.

An x-level bard would get a +1 to his/her charisma and at the next x-level he/she would get a +1 to dexterity. I am actually unsure of the bard getting both or just the charisma increases.

An x-level paladin would get a +1 to his/her strength and at the next x-level he/she would get a +1 to charisma. I think they should bet the increases to strength because of their martial background. But I think that should be alternated with charisma to show the extra time that they spend training to become leaders of armies. I had also thought about splitting it between strength and wisdom to show their closer connection to their deity. And splitting it between wisdom and charisma for the reasons for each ability listed above. I had even thought about a three way split between theses abilities but I don't think that would be fair to them. However, it would be fun to play test and see if it would work.

All of these increases could be the new set of natural ability increases and take the place of the 3.5e ability increases. Or they could be spread out and have some player chosen increases in-between these automatic ones. The nice thing about these increases is even if you multi-class you will still have to be an 8th level character to get two increases for being 4/4 in class levels.
Too limited, takes away choice, doesn't always fit all character types (a finesse fighter wouldn't work out his strength, he'd work on his dexterity and intelligence). It forces characters to a particular stereotype that they may not fit.

'Put it where you like' works far, FAR better.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I can see your point. It was an idea to see about streamlining things. And besides I never said all of my ideas were good ones. :D
IIRC, at one point they considered making the bonuses tied to race.

In SAGA, you increase two different ability scores at those levels. If we get two in 4E, then maybe one is tied and the other is not. For example, a Dwarf would increase Con and something else, while a Halfling would increase Dex and something else. A Human would choose any two different scores. He could increase Dex and Con, or Int and Wis, etc.

I'm not so sure I'd bet on it, but we'll see.
I like SAGA's method.
I like the SAGA method too. This not only helps to lessen dependence on gear, but also prevents those bonuses from being piled only on one ability score.
I would like to see ability scores increasing a bit faster, though I can already see people starting to complain while mentioning MMORPG.
Anything that takes away from the player's choice of where to put stats, shoehorns people and leads to less fun. ;)
Yeah, I like Saga's method without a fixed selection based on race. That's lame IMO.
A Human would choose any two different scores. He could increase Dex and Con, or Int and Wis, etc.

Or Intelligence and Intelligence, oh me, oh my. >_>;;
Or Intelligence and Intelligence, oh me, oh my. >_>;;

You can't increase the same ability score twice in the same instance in Saga.
Ah well, such is fate. It was worth a shot at least. Intelligence and Constitution it is.
As another option, you could just leave ability scores where they start.
That's the way it used to be, and we liked it!!!

I've never really been that fond of the 3e infinite ability score treadmill. So, my character is a halfling, but after a few levels I'm stronger than most Hill Giants... huh? I want my character to be heroic because of his experience, abilities, special items and skills, not because the ability scores of high level characters somehow magically improve.

I would like to see STATIC ability scores that can only be increased by:
* A limited set of feats
* Magic items of wonder and power (back in the day, a belt of giant strength meant something... namely that you could be as strong as a giant, which was strongER than any human you might meet.)
I've never really been that fond of the 3e infinite ability score treadmill. So, my character is a halfling, but after a few levels I'm stronger than most Hill Giants... huh?

Yay for hyperbole and blatant ignorance of the system.

First off, a Halfling's maximum STR score to start is a 16 (18 with the -2 STR penalty from race). At Lv. 20, they'll be no higher than a 21 in STR, barring any magical items, wishes, etc.

Considering that the 2nd Edition STR score of 19 is equal to a 24-25 in 3rd Edition (the same STR as your typical 3.x Hill Giant), I'd say you're way off base.

19-23 are what would've been your 18/xx scores in 2nd Ed. Except instead of starting out with those from 1st level, you have to build those through level gains.
IIRC, at one point they considered making the bonuses tied to race.

In SAGA, you increase two different ability scores at those levels. If we get two in 4E, then maybe one is tied and the other is not. For example, a Dwarf would increase Con and something else, while a Halfling would increase Dex and something else. A Human would choose any two different scores. He could increase Dex and Con, or Int and Wis, etc.

I'm not so sure I'd bet on it, but we'll see.

I've gotten the impression that they won't do something like this (as far as making a stat increase raise dependent during level-up). Rather, a Dwarf's constitution does more (additional special abilities and such) than a Human's, so the Dwarf certainly has more incentive to increase his con. You could also potentially use feats and talents as a Dwarf to make your constitution even better.

That's the impression I've had, anyhow.
Wait, where did anyone get the impression that races aren't going to have ability bonuses and penalties?
One thing that occured to me reading this thread was "How does this play with rolling/point buy?"

If characters are going from levels 1-30 and getting more stat increases per level, it might be necessary to reduce initial stats. Otherwise the characters could end up with god level stats.

Going back to 3d6 rolling for stats or a smaller point buy combined with larger stat increases would be interesting.

Jay
Wait, where did anyone get the impression that races aren't going to have ability bonuses and penalties?

I said during level-up. I have no idea if they are changing anything about bonuses or penalties during character creation. It is possible they will.
One thing that occured to me reading this thread was "How does this play with rolling/point buy?"

If characters are going from levels 1-30 and getting more stat increases per level, it might be necessary to reduce initial stats. Otherwise the characters could end up with god level stats.

I think they might reduce or eliminate stat-boosting items. Not sure though.
One thing that occured to me reading this thread was "How does this play with rolling/point buy?"

If characters are going from levels 1-30 and getting more stat increases per level, it might be necessary to reduce initial stats. Otherwise the characters could end up with god level stats.

Going back to 3d6 rolling for stats or a smaller point buy combined with larger stat increases would be interesting.

Jay

If it does work like Saga (and I think it should), you'll just wind up with two good stats instead of only one that stuck out like a sore thumb like you did in 3.x.

But I also think Drachasor's right in that the ability-boosting items will be reduced, at the very least. Quite likely, considering the devs have stated that characters will be far less reliant on enchanted equipment for success.
I think they might reduce or eliminate stat-boosting items. Not sure though.

I think they will do this. They have said that they want the focus to be more on the character than the equipment. Also, this is a 3.x houserule of one of the designers. (another had level 1-20 spells...)
I think they will do this. They have said that they want the focus to be more on the character than the equipment. Also, this is a 3.x houserule of one of the designers. (another had level 1-20 spells...)

I'd like that a lot from a logic standpoint. While I can see some items somehow enhancing a character's innate intelligence, etc., items that do that are far too common. They need to be scaled back or eliminated in my opinion.
I'd like that a lot from a logic standpoint. While I can see some items somehow enhancing a character's innate intelligence, etc., items that do that are far too common. They need to be scaled back or eliminated in my opinion.

Yeah, I hope they get rid of them completely myself (and tome's that increase attributes as well).
I would like to see ability scores increasing a bit faster, though I can already see people starting to complain while mentioning MMORPG.

I've been House Ruling ways of increasing ability scores faster for years. Latest trick has been using the rules from Conan d20, where you get your usual +1 every 4th level, but you also get +1 to all six ability scores at 6th level and every four levels after that.

Actually thinking of going +1(free)/+1(fixed) every 4th level, and then +1(all) at 6th and every four thereafter. As long as I pair it with 25 point buy, it doesn't get too unreasonable.
Personally I was hoping that they'd bump it up to a +2 at every x/levels. Then at least players would be guaranteed to feel a difference. I know I'm not the only person whose hit 4th (or 8th ,12th ect...) level and had all even ability scores.

I like the idea of one fixed and one free ability score increase (perhaps they can stagger them so players will see an increase of some sort more often)