New 4th edition rumors

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Let me first say that very little I'm about to say here has been officially confirmed. The designers are remaining very secretive about many of 4th edition's myriad details. What I can give you however is some unofficial information from a very credible source. I don't want to reveal that source, as doing so may very well cut me off from additional information about 4th edition.

None of this is final, as there are still many changes being made during playtest to the final product, however this is a good idea as to the direction the designers are taking.

  • Saving throws are replaced with Reflex, Fortitude and Will defenses, Saga style.

  • Ability scores have been made more complex with more variables. Percentile strength is back, though in a different form from1st and 2nd edition. In addition, being strong grants you more weapon maneuvers, similar to how a wizard gains bonus spells. Dexterity grants you extra actions (see below). It all looks great. It's nice to see the d% returned to its rightful place in generating ability scores.

  • Spell preparation is gone entirely. Spellcasting classes either behave like the sorcerer or the beguiler.

  • There are over a dozen new weapons: purely magical weapons and even firearms are present. There's a pseudolightsaber weapon called the forceblade, and even a double flintlock musket. As both sides have bayonets, you can use this weapon as something like a double shortsword as well as a pair of standard muskets. Archers also have a wide variety of new arrows and special arrowheads. Armor peircing heads, distance arrows, alchemist fire arrows and my personal favorite, the giantslayer, a huge arrow with the thickness of a spear that allows an archer to power attack. It has a reduced range increment to compensate.

  • The skill system appears very close to Saga, however it's been much expanded to make D&D more skill based. In fact, base attack bonus is gone entirely, and instead each weapon group (simple, martial, exotic) is a separate skill. Fighter types get all the groups as class skills, other classes need to buy the skills with the skill training feat. A much needed change.

  • Gnomes have been removed as a core race and replaced with tieflings and warforged. From what I saw, the warforged received a strong power boost.

  • Unfortunately, there will be no core support for monster races, they are apparently waiting to reprint a new edition of Savage Species (name still pending) that will introduce rules for monster PCs.

  • The new warlord class is incredibly powerful and versatile. While itself is merely a watered down fighter-type, similar to the existing NPC warrior, the class has great leadership abilities, and as the name implies, you'll be leading a small army. The warlord I heard about being used in playtesting had 20 followers with him, and that was only at level 5. One thing that's nice is that it's only a full round action to attract new followers, so if some of them die (which inevitably they will), you can still continue without having to head back to town to recruit. It's also very adaptable, as you can play a rather mundane warlord with humanoid troops or you can lead a squad of undead or monsters. Awesome!

  • As we suspected from playtest reports, there is an attempt made to make the wizard and the psion the same class, utilizing the same mechanics. It is unknown how far along this is. Apparently the "psionics is magic" design concept has extended yet again, this time to actually make them the same class, or at the very least, use the same spell list.

  • Characters will receive 1 feat per level now, instead of 1 every 3 levels. Also, the fighter receives real class features instead of just bonus feats. This includes warblade style maneuvers and stances, as well as other interesting abilities that seem to make the class a lot more powerful. Manuevers are now based around weapon type though, so we've seen the last of warblades executing a mountain hammer with a dagger.

  • Full attacks are gone, as is the basic move & standard round structure. The old round structure has been replaced with a more variable standard & swift system. Certain complex actions require more than 1 standard action to cast, however multiple actions are now a part of the system. Having a high dexterity gives you a number of extra actions depending on your bonus. These are usually swift actions, but if your dexterity is high enough, you can get bonus standard actions as well. Low dexterity can cost you your swift action, though even the slowest creature still gets a standard. Zero dexterity presumably prevents you from taking any action (akin to paralysis in the current edition). Spells are balanced by requiring many actions to cast. Summoning spells now require 2 standard actions instead of the old 1 round casting time. Some especially potent high level magic require 5 standard actions to cast.

  • Free actions don't exist anymore; they are now swift actions. Even speaking requires a swift action. This is apparently to make command word activation more logical. Activating a command word item is now always a swift action and is the same as speaking any word.


Anyway, I hoped you enjoyed some of these spoilers.

Happy Gaming!
Just to make sure - do we laugh now or later?
Saving throws are replaced with Reflex, Fortitude and Will defenses, Saga style.

Most likely true, and welcomed.

Ability scores have been made more complex with more variables. Percentile strength is back, though in a different form from1st and 2nd edition. In addition, being strong grants you more weapon maneuvers, similar to how a wizard gains bonus spells. Dexterity grants you extra actions (see below). It all looks great. It's nice to see the d% returned to its rightful place in generating ability scores.

Not true. They've already stated that ability score generation will give you a number between 3 and 18.

Spell preparation is gone entirely. Spellcasting classes either behave like the sorcerer or the beguiler.

Wrong, as well. The Vancian system is reduced in it's role (not all classes use it anymore), but will still exist.

The skill system appears very close to Saga, however it's been much expanded to make D&D more skill based. In fact, base attack bonus is gone entirely, and instead each weapon group (simple, martial, exotic) is a separate skill. Fighter types get all the groups as class skills, other classes need to buy the skills with the skill training feat. A much needed change.

This is false. While skills will be more like Saga, BAB is not being folded into skills.

Unfortunately, there will be no core support for monster races, they are apparently waiting to reprint a new edition of Savage Species (name still pending) that will introduce rules for monster PCs.

False. They are completely separating monsters and characters... a monster will always be written up as a monster. If they want to make them playable, they will write a separate entry for the race.

The new warlord class is incredibly powerful and versatile. While itself is merely a watered down fighter-type, similar to the existing NPC warrior, the class has great leadership abilities, and as the name implies, you'll be leading a small army. The warlord I heard about being used in playtesting had 20 followers with him, and that was only at level 5. One thing that's nice is that it's only a full round action to attract new followers, so if some of them die (which inevitably they will), you can still continue without having to head back to town to recruit. It's also very adaptable, as you can play a rather mundane warlord with humanoid troops or you can lead a squad of undead or monsters. Awesome!

Warlord isn't about mass combat or leading squads. It's about being a leader in the traditional D&D party and providing benefit and support to other characters.

As we suspected from playtest reports, there is an attempt made to make the wizard and the psion the same class, utilizing the same mechanics. It is unknown how far along this is. Apparently the "psionics is magic" design concept has extended yet again, this time to actually make them the same class, or at the very least, use the same spell list.

False. As stated by the people running that playtest, wizard was used to represent psion because they don't have the 4th edition psion (with Power Source: Psionics) created.

Characters will receive 1 feat per level now, instead of 1 every 3 levels. Also, the fighter receives real class features instead of just bonus feats. This includes warblade style maneuvers and stances, as well as other interesting abilities that seem to make the class a lot more powerful. Manuevers are now based around weapon type though, so we've seen the last of warblades executing a mountain hammer with a dagger.

We'll see maneuvers built into martial classes (Fighters and Rogues both have Power Source: Martial), but feats will remain the same (1/3 levels) with classes providing more appropriate bonus feats.

Full attacks are gone, as is the basic move & standard round structure. The old round structure has been replaced with a more variable standard & swift system. Certain complex actions require more than 1 standard action to cast, however multiple actions are now a part of the system. Having a high dexterity gives you a number of extra actions depending on your bonus. These are usually swift actions, but if your dexterity is high enough, you can get bonus standard actions as well. Low dexterity can cost you your swift action, though even the slowest creature still gets a standard. Zero dexterity presumably prevents you from taking any action (akin to paralysis in the current edition). Spells are balanced by requiring many actions to cast. Summoning spells now require 2 standard actions instead of the old 1 round casting time. Some especially potent high level magic require 5 standard actions to cast.

All this extra action stuff is false. D&D 4th will be more like Saga, with standard, move, swift, and full-round actions.
Now's good.

That credible source sounds suspicously like Ronald McDonald.

Ktulu
Let me first say that very little I'm about to say here has been officially confirmed. The designers are remaining very secretive about many of 4th edition's myriad details. What I can give you however is some unofficial information from a very credible source. I don't want to reveal that source, as doing so may very well cut me off from additional information about 4th edition.

None of this is final, as there are still many changes being made during playtest to the final product, however this is a good idea as to the direction the designers are taking.

[LIST]


[*]Saving throws are replaced with Reflex, Fortitude and Will defenses, Saga style.

Your post was sort-of believable, until...

[*]Ability scores have been made more complex with more variables. Percentile strength is back, though in a different form from1st and 2nd edition. In addition, being strong grants you more weapon maneuvers, similar to how a wizard gains bonus spells. Dexterity grants you extra actions (see below). It all looks great. It's nice to see the d% returned to its rightful place in generating ability scores.

Gimme a break. Percentile strength made no sense to begin with, and percentile scores aren't in SWSE, either. Streamlined, no-top-limit scores make FAR more sense and are easier to deal with.
Dude, I don't know about your source. Half of what he says is confirmed by other sources (Bruce Cordell said at the UK GenCon that saving throws would be replaced by a system that looks different, which of course is almost certainly the SWSE defense system), and the other half is... nuts.

Percentile strengths? Really?

They want to have *fewer* animal companions and henchmen/followers controlled by one player, not *more.* It's not a question of game balance but game flow -- people controlling multiple characters are basically turn-hogs making everyone wait five minutes for their turns while they take actions for each character.

Muskets? Forceblades? Magic is psionics? "Giantslayer arrows"? Individual weapon skills?

Extremely dubious, man. Extremely. Sounds more like he's telling you about his saga-inspired homebrew, not anything about 4e.
Back when 3rd edition was under construction, we had people who'd talk about their "secret information from a source I can't tell you about."

Their information was about as accurate as this guy's.
Let me first say that very little I'm about to say here has been officially confirmed. The designers are remaining very secretive about many of 4th edition's myriad details. What I can give you however is some unofficial information from a very credible source. I don't want to reveal that source, as doing so may very well cut me off from additional information about 4th edition.

None of this is final, as there are still many changes being made during playtest to the final product, however this is a good idea as to the direction the designers are taking.

  • Saving throws are replaced with Reflex, Fortitude and Will defenses, Saga style.

  • Ability scores have been made more complex with more variables. Percentile strength is back, though in a different form from1st and 2nd edition. In addition, being strong grants you more weapon maneuvers, similar to how a wizard gains bonus spells. Dexterity grants you extra actions (see below). It all looks great. It's nice to see the d% returned to its rightful place in generating ability scores.

  • Spell preparation is gone entirely. Spellcasting classes either behave like the sorcerer or the beguiler.

  • There are over a dozen new weapons: purely magical weapons and even firearms are present. There's a pseudolightsaber weapon called the forceblade, and even a double flintlock musket. As both sides have bayonets, you can use this weapon as something like a double shortsword as well as a pair of standard muskets. Archers also have a wide variety of new arrows and special arrowheads. Armor peircing heads, distance arrows, alchemist fire arrows and my personal favorite, the giantslayer, a huge arrow with the thickness of a spear that allows an archer to power attack. It has a reduced range increment to compensate.

  • The skill system appears very close to Saga, however it's been much expanded to make D&D more skill based. In fact, base attack bonus is gone entirely, and instead each weapon group (simple, martial, exotic) is a separate skill. Fighter types get all the groups as class skills, other classes need to buy the skills with the skill training feat. A much needed change.

  • Gnomes have been removed as a core race and replaced with tieflings and warforged. From what I saw, the warforged received a strong power boost.

  • Unfortunately, there will be no core support for monster races, they are apparently waiting to reprint a new edition of Savage Species (name still pending) that will introduce rules for monster PCs.

  • The new warlord class is incredibly powerful and versatile. While itself is merely a watered down fighter-type, similar to the existing NPC warrior, the class has great leadership abilities, and as the name implies, you'll be leading a small army. The warlord I heard about being used in playtesting had 20 followers with him, and that was only at level 5. One thing that's nice is that it's only a full round action to attract new followers, so if some of them die (which inevitably they will), you can still continue without having to head back to town to recruit. It's also very adaptable, as you can play a rather mundane warlord with humanoid troops or you can lead a squad of undead or monsters. Awesome!

  • As we suspected from playtest reports, there is an attempt made to make the wizard and the psion the same class, utilizing the same mechanics. It is unknown how far along this is. Apparently the "psionics is magic" design concept has extended yet again, this time to actually make them the same class, or at the very least, use the same spell list.

  • Characters will receive 1 feat per level now, instead of 1 every 3 levels. Also, the fighter receives real class features instead of just bonus feats. This includes warblade style maneuvers and stances, as well as other interesting abilities that seem to make the class a lot more powerful. Manuevers are now based around weapon type though, so we've seen the last of warblades executing a mountain hammer with a dagger.

  • Full attacks are gone, as is the basic move & standard round structure. The old round structure has been replaced with a more variable standard & swift system. Certain complex actions require more than 1 standard action to cast, however multiple actions are now a part of the system. Having a high dexterity gives you a number of extra actions depending on your bonus. These are usually swift actions, but if your dexterity is high enough, you can get bonus standard actions as well. Low dexterity can cost you your swift action, though even the slowest creature still gets a standard. Zero dexterity presumably prevents you from taking any action (akin to paralysis in the current edition). Spells are balanced by requiring many actions to cast. Summoning spells now require 2 standard actions instead of the old 1 round casting time. Some especially potent high level magic require 5 standard actions to cast.

  • Free actions don't exist anymore; they are now swift actions. Even speaking requires a swift action. This is apparently to make command word activation more logical. Activating a command word item is now always a swift action and is the same as speaking any word.


Anyway, I hoped you enjoyed some of these spoilers.

Happy Gaming!

Yeah from what i gather from our playtesting, the bulk of all of this is garbage. Where did you get this information? While I am bound not to discuss the testing so far. I can tell you that you have most if not all of your material information wrong.

Almost completely BS
Who cares about these "rumors" anyway? Sure, 3.5 has some problems; most of them can be solved by using house rule-variants. In my opinion, 4th edition is coming out far too soon. my Leather cover 3.5 PHB is not even 3 years old and they're coming out with an entirely new version of the game?!?!? While I'm not closed minded to change, the previous changes from 1st, to 2nd, to 3rd Editions had at least 10 years inbetween the update. Why just a few short years now? An update booklet could support the current edition of the game without having to resort to a whole new platform. Most if not all gamers I know won't be making the shift to 4.0. As for myself, I'm still curious about 4th Ed.
I guess we laught now =)
Why just a few short years now?

Well, for one, it has been 8 years since the last full edition (3rd).

Secondly, because of modern technology. Back in the early days of D&D, communication and feedback with developers was extremely limited. You met them at conventions and made points to them about faulty mechanics, or write letters to Dragon about how things should be changed. Today, we can communicate with them quickly and easily. Instead of it taking years for them to receive feedback about broken mechanics, core changes needed, or poorly designed products, that all comes in a matter of days, weeks, and months. This allows a much faster turnaround for fixes and rule changes, which allows for quicker revisions and edition releases.
If Sarge can make stuff up about 4e, so can I.

Here are my unofficial rumors from a source I can't disclose.

  • Gary Gygax was a prominent contributor to the system's mechanics. Or it might have been Bobby Fischer. They look pretty similar these days.
  • 4e will have eight starting classes: Druid, Hunter, Mage, Paladin, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock and Warrior.
  • Sixteen pages of the DMG will be devoted to critical hit charts.
  • 4e will reintroduce the ceiling on female strength, but there will be ways to circumvent this using 'Flaws'.
  • The full character sets of the Dwarven and Elven alphabets will be included in the PHB, along with tutorials for writing in these scripts.
  • Talent trees consist of 1st-ed-style secondary skills and personality enhancements, rather than class abilities. This is to facilitate roleplaying , which is much more important than you munchkin optimisers getting a bunch of new toys.
  • Spellcasters no longer get a Concentration check to resist interruptions, and neither can they move on the same turn that they cast. If anyone farts near the caster, they lose the spell.
  • The current range notation of n-dicetype + modifier (e.g 2d6+3) is being replaced by pure numerical ranges (5-15). This is because the present notation is too dumbed down, and it's time to make gamers start using their brains again.
  • Each race in the PHB will have five or six different subraces to choose from, some of which will be strictly better than the original.
  • Melee combatants who strike a living creature three times in a row with an edged weapon must make a Strength check on each subsequent round to hold onto their weapon, which has become slippery with blood.
  • The Warlock will use a demonic servant to perform all its combat and spellcasting duties. This will make the warlock distinctive, and leave him or her free to roleplay.
Now, I'm gonna look at this with a wee bit of skepticism, but you never know.

What this has got me thinking about is what April Fools Joke is WotC gonna play concerning D&D 4e, really the month before 4e, we're gonna get something I feel.
Well, for one, it has been 8 years since the last full edition (3rd).

Secondly, because of modern technology. Back in the early days of D&D, communication and feedback with developers was extremely limited.QUOTE]

Heheh, trust me, I know all about the early days of D&D; I've been playing for 23 years now. Actually, it has really only been 4 years since the 3.5 update which was, in many ways, a new edition. Why else would they call it 3.5? Your second reason makes sense. A third reason is obvious; Hasbro wants to make more money, plain and simple. If everyone goes out and buys all new sets of books, that's a lot of coin that they can make. I can't blame them, if I was running the business I'd probably do the same.
For someone like me who's been playing & DMing for so long it just seems like the move to 4th is happening too soon. I'm sure that when they come out with the books there will be problems with the new system just like there were when 3.0 came out. Spells that were out of balance, classes that were too powerful in relation to their counterparts, etc, etc. I'm entirely sure that the developer of 4th cannot possibly concieve of every possible rules/spells/psionics Snafu but they'll do their best. Onslaught, this is where you can laugh! One rumor I'll start; they will do away with the monk... again. He was there in 1st, gone in 2nd, back in third.... if the cycle continues, he'll be gone again!!!! ;) I think...
One rumor I'll start; they will do away with the monk... again. He was there in 1st, gone in 2nd, back in third.... if the cycle continues, he'll be gone again!!!! ;) I think...

If they do that, will they then bring him back just before 5th edition comes out? Secrets of the Scarlet Brotherhood (I think that was the title) did that for monks in second edition just before the switch to 3rd.

And if this is the place for starting rumors, then I guess nobody's heard yet that they're planning on banning drow from ever taking the ranger class, duel wielding scimitars, or having wondrous figurine animal companions...
If Sarge can make stuff up about 4e, so can I.

Here are my unofficial rumors from a source I can't disclose.

  • Gary Gygax was a prominent contributor to the system's mechanics. Or it might have been Bobby Fischer. They look pretty similar these days.
  • 4e will have eight starting classes: Druid, Hunter, Mage, Paladin, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock and Warrior.
  • Sixteen pages of the DMG will be devoted to critical hit charts.
  • 4e will reintroduce the ceiling on female strength, but there will be ways to circumvent this using 'Flaws'.
  • The full character sets of the Dwarven and Elven alphabets will be included in the PHB, along with tutorials for writing in these scripts.
  • Talent trees consist of 1st-ed-style secondary skills and personality enhancements, rather than class abilities. This is to facilitate roleplaying , which is much more important than you munchkin optimisers getting a bunch of new toys.
  • Spellcasters no longer get a Concentration check to resist interruptions, and neither can they move on the same turn that they cast. If anyone farts near the caster, they lose the spell.
  • The current range notation of n-dicetype + modifier (e.g 2d6+3) is being replaced by pure numerical ranges (5-15). This is because the present notation is too dumbed down, and it's time to make gamers start using their brains again.
  • Each race in the PHB will have five or six different subraces to choose from, some of which will be strictly better than the original.
  • Melee combatants who strike a living creature three times in a row with an edged weapon must make a Strength check on each subsequent round to hold onto their weapon, which has become slippery with blood.
  • The Warlock will use a demonic servant to perform all its combat and spellcasting duties. This will make the warlock distinctive, and leave him or her free to roleplay.

Sweet, I heard those exact same rumors. My source is Larry, the Hairy Dairy Man. Larry eats his own poo.
Heheh, trust me, I know all about the early days of D&D; I've been playing for 23 years now. Actually, it has really only been 4 years since the 3.5 update which was, in many ways, a new edition.

I disagree : while 3.5 included some major changes in some aspects of the game (some class improved, some spells changed such, as haste that was too powerful for spellcaster in 3.0, ...), the whole game structure was still the same.

Some feats, skills, and spells have been changed, but the skill, feat and spell system behind them is still the same in 3.5 that it was in 3.0.

I can take a 3.0 adventure and use it in 3.5 with only a few changes. Sure, the spell list and tactics of my evil Archmage might have to be reevaluated (no haste for exemple, and some buff no longer last for hours), but custom monsters or non spellcaster NPCs can almost be played as written in 3.0
Hey Sarge, long time no see...
What this has got me thinking about is what April Fools Joke is WotC gonna play concerning D&D 4e, really the month before 4e, we're gonna get something I feel.

That actually worries me, because they probably will, and it's not that we'll be tricked(since we know it's coming), but it will be severely annoying and incredibly inconvenient.
If Sarge can make stuff up about 4e, so can I.

Here are my unofficial rumors from a source I can't disclose.

  • 4e will have eight starting classes: Druid, Hunter, Mage, Paladin, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock and Warrior.

That last should read Forum Warrior, part of the new D&D online presence. They're actually fairly weak during tabletop gaming but exceptionally powerful during any online session... ;)
A lot of folks are saying that Sarge "had them" until Item X or Y. Me?
He had me until this:

...

Good to see Sarge is still around.

The Greendale Campaign

 

I was there at the dawn of the Third-and-a-Halfth Age of Dungeons & Dragons. I saw action during the Crisis of Infinite Foundations, stood on the ramparts of the Citadel of Mirth, delved deep into the debauchery of the Forum of the Adult, and fought alongside the Infernal Bovine on the fields of the Eberron War. I weathered the Ponystorm. I witnessed as the orcs came for the wizos, and I wept mightily. I saw the realm crack as the Fourth Age came upon us, and I witnessed the eldritch tendrils of the dread Gleemax. Now I watch as the winds of change sweep the land as the Fifth Age is dawning. I have walked these Boarderlands for many a long year, and bear many scars in my soul. Yet I remain the White Sorcerer, ever in your service. TWS out.

I disagree : while 3.5 included some major changes in some aspects of the game (some class improved, some spells changed such, as haste that was too powerful for spellcaster in 3.0, ...), the whole game structure was still the same.

Some feats, skills, and spells have been changed, but the skill, feat and spell system behind them is still the same in 3.5 that it was in 3.0.

I can take a 3.0 adventure and use it in 3.5 with only a few changes. Sure, the spell list and tactics of my evil Archmage might have to be reevaluated (no haste for exemple, and some buff no longer last for hours), but custom monsters or non spellcaster NPCs can almost be played as written in 3.0

I (and many people I know) measure new editions by when I have to buy all new books. This did happen with 3.5, which will have had a 5 year life when 4e comes out.
Who says that 3.5e had a 5 year life? I just bought Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium, like 2 months ago. (!!)

That's my vent.

Otherwise, I am looking forward to 4e (I probably won't buy any product unless it is 4e compliant from now on). I am a total Rules Fanatic -- meaning, I enjoy reading the rules and seeing how they interact.

These spoilers, while somewhat dubious, do give food for thought and may provide an unintentional insight into a house-rule mechanic some day.
If they do that, will they then bring him back just before 5th edition comes out? Secrets of the Scarlet Brotherhood (I think that was the title) did that for monks in second edition just before the switch to 3rd.

And if this is the place for starting rumors, then I guess nobody's heard yet that they're planning on banning drow from ever taking the ranger class, duel wielding scimitars, or having wondrous figurine animal companions...

Now THIS is one rumor I can support fully. I would love to see that in text. Not that I've never played a dual-wielding drow, but he was using twin longswords, and also out-and-out evil. Definitely not emo.