4E Core Rulebooks

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Here’s the thread to share thoughts about the 4E Player’s Handbook, 4E Dungeon Master’s Guide, and 4E Monster Manual.
I hope that 4E will move back toward the sensibilities that made 1E and Classic such great, enduring games.
Haiku Police
So um, what exactly is this? Did I miss the announcement or something?
Well, what of our feedback is really going to matter here?

What I want? I want a system that preserves the motifs, mythology, and basic concept behind Dungeons & Dragons, but is actually good for real roleplaying as well as the hack-and-slash style other people prefer.

That's the kind of core ruleset I'm after. If that means ditching character classes for the sake of greater customization, so be it. If that means dropping "social" skills for characters to encourage people to actually play their roles, so be it as well.

But we'll get only what they give us, I'm afraid. Let's hope they've been listening to the vibe over the years.
I hope that 4E will move back toward the sensibilities that made 1E and Classic such great, enduring games.

I, for one, hope they don't move backwards. We already have a 1e, for crying out loud. I'd like to see them lose some of the chaff from 3e, but that's different than moving back to 1e.

I hope they move D&D forward with 4e.
Are there any dates set on when the core books will be available?
I personally would prefer if skills and feats were disentangled from the core mechanics, and relegated to "optional" status.

Let's get back to some good old fashioned Gygax. Fast prep, fast play... just spelunking, looting and slaying.

Although I don't buy 3E stuff, they got the names right on the recent products: "expedition". That's what the game is about!
Haiku Police
I personally would prefer if skills and feats were disentangled from the core mechanics, and relegated to "optional" status.

You know, something I liked about 2e was that the core books had optional rules (nonweapon proficiencies, detailed encumberance, certain classes, etc). Of course, that means the game needs to be balanced whether or not you use the optional rules.
Without going into too much detail (which might or might not be possible at this point), how different/compatible will the core ruleset be *i.e. will it resemble SWSE or something completely different, 1E for instance?*?

I would like to see something moving backward to a faster set up and play game (C&C) rather than more bulky *what do you mean the batteries in the calculator are dead again?* rule set.
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Are there any dates set on when the core books will be available?

I suspect we'll find out when the timer runs out. I don't think this section of the message boards is even supposed to be public; note which section it's under.
Man, three books again. I was kinda hoping for one...

More importantly, will it be normal book sized or a 9 x 9 square?
I, for one, hope they don't move backwards. We already have a 1e, for crying out loud. I'd like to see them lose some of the chaff from 3e, but that's different than moving back to 1e.

I hope they move D&D forward with 4e.

We're just talking personal tastes here, so we all get to have our own hopes. But just to lay down a counterpoint: we also already have Gurps, Hero and all that jazz. I don't need another "generic" fantasy game. I personally think that D&D is at its best when it doesn't try to be all things to all people... even toward the end of 1E (post Gygax) they started having you worry about whether your character could start a fire or if you knew etiquette.

Anyway, we'll see I guess. But the closer they come to "Thundarr with a bodycount" the better.
Haiku Police
less of that "strength is a better stat than cha" crap

if cha is not worth as much, let it cost less on point based systems

hell make the whole chargen point based
We're just talking personal tastes here, so we all get to have our own hopes. But just to lay down a counterpoint: we also already have Gurps, Hero and all that jazz. I don't need another "generic" fantasy game. I personally think that D&D is at its best when it doesn't try to be all things to all people... even toward the end of 1E (post Gygax) they started having you worry about whether your character could start a fire or if you knew etiquette.

See, they dealt with these kinds of tastes when they made, oh, video games. Tabletop roleplay is utterly wasted when it's useless dungeon-crawling and loot-gathering. To redo D&D to these kinds of standards would be the absolute worst kind of throwback imaginable. Everything GOOD about the game came about through the actual fleshing out of themes and settings and the whole mythology in the background. I'm sorry if you don't feel that way, but going back to the "Gygax" model would be a horrible, horrible idea.
less of that "strength is a better stat than cha" crap

if cha is not worth as much, let it cost less on point based systems

hell make the whole chargen point based

Anything that will remove the term "Dumpstat" from the gamer lexicon is a step in the right direction.
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The one word I can think of is "streamlined."

I'd love to see all three books be very streamlined and concise in the way they present information.

I'd like to see fewer classes and more build options for the PHB.

Please remove all of the variants from the DMG and just have the core rules. People are gonna make their own house rules anyway or you can release them on the internet.

As for the Monster Manual, make each monster fit on one page and leave the ecology and personality to the settings.
If this happens to be a hoax of some kind, then I salute you for the effort.

If not, bring it on!
Is Incarnum going to be in the core books?

Will it be updated if not?

Is Psionics going to be in the core books?

Will it be updated if not?

Is Tome Of Battle going to be in the core books?

Will it be updated if not?

What is going to happen to the Fighter class?

Will iterative attacks still exist?

Will spell growth stay as is, with 9th level spells at 17/18 for Wizards and Sorcerors?
Lets have some details!

WHAT WILL THE 4th ed CORE SETTING BE?
Yes, I know I'm shouting.
Brew'N Games: A Homebrewing Blog, Both Games and Beer. "The Sky is Falling Like a Sock of Cocaine in the Ministry of Information..." - Man Man, Black Mission Goggles
Serious question: will the skills be like Saga's?

If so, can we please get an alturnate/optional system out ASAP?

This is the very most important point for me. Once that question is answered, I can move on (one way or another!)
What are we looking at for cost this time?

Will Psionics be updated?

Is that ugly logo staying?
I want the books to be standard sized (why do people want 9x9? So they don't fit on your bookshelf?).

I would also like to see an better index and table of contents
1) What Core Base Classes will be available?

2) What Core Races will be available?

3) What are you doing about the Magic System?

4) Will we be seeing the end of the oh so clunky Iterative Attacks (I hope so)

5) What will the Combat Round length be? (6 Seconds, 3 seconds?)

6) I have heard rumours of Kit type modifications. Will there be no more Prestige Classes?

7) Will we be given more/better Optional Rules or will this be a cohesive Rule Set?

It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

I reckon the community's gonna be split into nice, equal halves about that logo. I, personally, think it's great, and would love to see it on a book. I reckon it would be best printed dead-centre, with some sepia picture in the background. Much like the logo at the top of the site, in fact.
I reckon the community's gonna be split into nice, equal halves about that logo. I, personally, think it's great, and would love to see it on a book. I reckon it would be best printed dead-centre, with some sepia picture in the background. Much like the logo at the top of the site, in fact.

In all honesty, it wouldn't be so bad if the shadowing wasn't so heavy.

Its like seeing a pale chick with too much eyeliner. It looks tacky.
I want a system that preserves the motifs, mythology, and basic concept behind Dungeons & Dragons, but is actually good for real roleplaying as well as the hack-and-slash style other people prefer.

I thought hack-and-slash was the motif, mythology, and basic concept behind Dungeons & Dragons. :D
All i truly... DEEPLY hope for is....

DO NOT CHANGE THE KOBOLD APPEARANCE I have seen them change from little rat things to lizard people and I gotta say...2 foot lizard men with a drop of dragon blood in them that look kinda unthreatening and such is a perfect look for them, the LIKE to be underestimated. Much better than ugly rat people.

Heck if you have to, keep the 3/3.5 art and dont make a new drawing. They are perfect... except...

in their description about what color their scales range from... PLEASE include green, it says like reddish to like brown but there is tons of WOTC books that have them green.

i will keep posting this on and off >_> must get point across! you can change their stats but not their looks!
I want tons of cool art in my Player's Handbook. If the equivalent of 30% of the pages were images that'd be awesome! I can't wait to see new pictures of iconic characters replacing Mialee, Lidda, and Krusk.

They should keep Regdar.

And please don't waste any art on Full Page battle scenes or Full Page art greyed out behind text blocks. Every character class, race, weapon, armor, monster, and advanced class should have at least one iconic picture.
I haven't even seen a sample of what 4e would look like for game play. For those who are worried that their 3e and 3.5e books are going to be invalidated, please don't worry you can still play the 3e/3.5e rulebooks if you want. I'm going to. And I will decide once I see something that is printed in 4e(not any of the speculation that I've seen about what it's going to look like).

If I have the hints right from the stat blocks that have been released, I'm talking the newer ones not the ones originally released 3/3.5, and the new setup for the Magic Items I think I have a pretty good idea of how 4e will look. One question I have is how is the Psionic system going to be updated?
I'd like to see the following:

-A basic game system very similar to 3.5
-Better encounter/challenge scaling
-Better balance between classes through all levels
-Less dominant role of equipment
-Less multiclassing (especially "dipping" classes for a level)
-Better copy editting and clearer more streamlined rules
-More reason to use classic fantasy weapons and fighting styles
-Less dominant role of trippping, grappling and reach.
-Fewer one shot/spell/efffect kills beyond dumb actions and vastly overmatched opponents
-Clearly addressing the limitations and how to play a character with lower mental stats.
I want something in a system that will not make my previous books useless stat wise. I've worked hard to make my campaign balanced, and although I will follow into 4th edition, I really hate the idea of converting EVERYTHING.

Give us something VERY similar, work out the balance issues, update 3e/3.5e don't completely revamp the system.

I'd like spell points instead of Vancian, TOB instead of Fighter, etc. Not a completely new system.

But I don't think we have to worry about them moving from d20 system

Peace,
Pyre
Wow. DOuble post 5 minutes apart! Go me!
Well, what of our feedback is really going to matter here?

probably nothing until its time for 5th edition to come out.

i am sure the books are already for the printer for the Feb-May release.

if they really have something they will take from these forums and apply to the 4th editions books and not just core i hope they would get rid of the terrible artwork. get rid of the full page artowrk with overlaying text.

put text in proper blocks (not wrapping around floating images), and put the text on a white background for legibility.

nobody really cares about how fancy the pages are to looking like a tattered scroll or page out of Divinci's Codex when they go to look up a rule. they want to be able to find the things they are looking for and be able to read it.
Can we put all the Player's stuff in the PHB for the first time in D&D history? That means the prestige classes (I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume they're sticking around) and the magic items go there. Even if it means the PHB is longer and more expensive than the DMG, and even if it means players won't typically pick up the DMG once they figure out what's going, this is a Good Thing. Players shouldn't need a DMG.
My biggest question is this: how much will our opinion matter, or are the rules already set in stone and you're basically spending this next year drumming up excitement and printing the books?
Will you be going over the wording in the Core books with a fine tooth comb? One can not fail to remember the missing line about PrC not counting against Multi-classing XP penalties in the 3.5 DMG. I would very much insist that editing blunders like that be stringently avoid. Also will Monster and NPC stat blocks be 100% correct. It has come up before that monster and NPC are either over or under skilled, missed qualified feats, and general something that a DM would shred and tell a player to do again.

Since these are the Core books every I should be doted and very T crossed if you get my meaning.
What are people's thought on the "preview" books?
I actually like the square format. I've gotten so used to Saga that my other books feel weird. A square just seems more natural. Though a 9.5"x9.5" square might be better.
Here's a press release from The Wargamer:

http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=4514

Whether you storm a mad wizard’s tower every week or haven’t delved into a dungeon since you had a mullet and a mean pair of parachute pants, one thing is certain, millions of D&D® players worldwide have anticipated the coming of 4th Edition for many years. Today Wizards of the Coast confirms that the new edition will launch in May 2008 with the release of the D&D Player’s Handbook®. A pop culture icon, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS is the #1 tabletop roleplaying game in the world and is revered by legions of gamers of all ages.

The 4th Edition DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game includes elements familiar to current D&D players, including illustrated rulebooks and pre-painted plastic miniatures. Also releasing next year will be new Web-based tools and online community forums through the brand new DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Insider (D&D Insider⁚) digital offering. D&D Insider lowers the barriers of entry for new players while simultaneously offering the depth of play that appeals to veteran players.

The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options, and reduce the amount of “prep time” needed to run the game. D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the Internet — the perfect option for anyone who can’t find time to get together.

“We’ve been gathering player feedback for eight years,” said Bill Slavicsek, R&D Director of Roleplaying and Miniatures Games at Wizards of the Coast. “Fourth Edition streamlines parts of the D&D game that are too complex while enhancing the overall play experience. At its heart, it’s still a tabletop game experience. However, D&D Insider makes it easier for players to create characters, run their games, and interact with the rest of the D&D community.”

Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January—Wizards Presents: Classes and Races⁚ and Wizards Presents:
Worlds and Monsters⁚. The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D EXPERIENCE⁚ gaming convention in Washington D.C. in February 2008.
The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

Since its first release in 1974, the fantasy roleplaying game DUNGEONS & DRAGONS has taken millions of players on imaginary adventures of epic scale. Today, D&D is universally regarded as the original game that created the roleplaying game category, and the inspiration for generations of game designers. D&D is enjoyed by millions of players worldwide, while countless more remember it with fond nostalgia.

All I want is for Psionics to be core.

Then I will be happy.
This is insane.
I bought 3.5 and watched my Sword and Fist, etc grow dusty. I will NOT buy this crap. There is nothing wrong with the basic game.

And the fact that every D&D Miniature will be obsolete is insane. Some of us have invested a lot of money into the damn game.

Wotc won't get another penny from me.