New player seeking build advice

12 posts / 0 new
Last post
Hey all, I played and loved 3e for a long time, wasn't too interested in 4e but I haven't gamed in a long time and some friends are running a 4e game, so I figure beggars can't be choosers, right?  And from what I've seen a lot of the splatbooks have alternate rules that cover a lot of the gripes I had with 4e when it first came out, so I'm fairly open to the system- however that's sorta besides the point.  The DM is just getting his feet wet with the system as well as all the players, so he wants to stick with core 4e phb for builds for right now, though he is also using half orcs.

Our party has not just one but two archer rangers, and a mage as well, so damage is fairly well covered.  That said.... battle clerics were my favorite setup in 3e.  I liked being able to buff up not only my party members but also myself, and lead the charge, using support when necessary, and used to love spending a lot of time twinking my character to be damn good at doing this, within practical reason.  

For this game I ran with a warlord for our first session.  i was under the impression that the warlord was a sort of front line leader, almost like a fighter/bard hybrid.  the dm generated level 1 characters for us based off advice from a computer program.... which I get the feeling was not so good.  I'm not sure if it was the setup but warlord wound up playing more as a boring minor tactical support unit that watched other units do cool stuff, while I was doing piddly damage and not adding much beyond being able to shift allies with wolf pack tactics.  I didn't feel like an awesome leader unit, and I didnt feel like I was really contributing to anything going on on the front lines damage or defense wise.

Long story short(er...shorter at least) I'm looking to try and make a character that has some tactical/support aspects but can also ideally do some damage or at least contribute to the party in other significant ways during combat, using only the core 4e phb.  Is this possible for warlords, especially warlords with a primarily ranged party?  From what I've seen clerics seem to have some aoes, some damage and some buffing/healing, would that be a better choice?  We had a paladin tank but he may not be returning so ideally I should be a class that can handle some damage and be comfortable on the front lines.  I know dragonborn can be awesome for both of these classes...but I think the race is kinda dumb.  :/

Maybe char op would be a better place for this, but I'm looking more for general advice on figuring things out myself rather than clear cut set in stone builds, not to mention being limited to just the core phb.  If you look at this like asking advice on where to find something in a department store, I don't mind finding it myself so that I learn the store layout, I would just appreciate being pointed in the right direction.  Thanks for any help!
Hey all, I played and loved 3e for a long time, wasn't too interested in 4e but I haven't gamed in a long time and some friends are running a 4e game, so I figure beggars can't be choosers, right?  And from what I've seen a lot of the splatbooks have alternate rules that cover a lot of the gripes I had with 4e when it first came out, so I'm fairly open to the system- however that's sorta besides the point.  The DM is just getting his feet wet with the system as well as all the players, so he wants to stick with core 4e phb for builds for right now, though he is also using half orcs.

Our party has not just one but two archer rangers, and a mage as well, so damage is fairly well covered.  That said.... battle clerics were my favorite setup in 3e.  I liked being able to buff up not only my party members but also myself, and lead the charge, using support when necessary, and used to love spending a lot of time twinking my character to be damn good at doing this, within practical reason.  

For this game I ran with a warlord for our first session.  i was under the impression that the warlord was a sort of front line leader, almost like a fighter/bard hybrid.  the dm generated level 1 characters for us based off advice from a computer program.... which I get the feeling was not so good.  I'm not sure if it was the setup but warlord wound up playing more as a boring minor tactical support unit that watched other units do cool stuff, while I was doing piddly damage and not adding much beyond being able to shift allies with wolf pack tactics.  I didn't feel like an awesome leader unit, and I didnt feel like I was really contributing to anything going on on the front lines damage or defense wise.

Long story short(er...shorter at least) I'm looking to try and make a character that has some tactical/support aspects but can also ideally do some damage or at least contribute to the party in other significant ways during combat, using only the core 4e phb.  Is this possible for warlords, especially warlords with a primarily ranged party?  From what I've seen clerics seem to have some aoes, some damage and some buffing/healing, would that be a better choice?  We had a paladin tank but he may not be returning so ideally I should be a class that can handle some damage and be comfortable on the front lines.  I know dragonborn can be awesome for both of these classes...but I think the race is kinda dumb.  :/

Maybe char op would be a better place for this, but I'm looking more for general advice on figuring things out myself rather than clear cut set in stone builds, not to mention being limited to just the core phb.  If you look at this like asking advice on where to find something in a department store, I don't mind finding it myself so that I learn the store layout, I would just appreciate being pointed in the right direction.  Thanks for any help!

Glad to see you have given 4e a chance Iron.

The warlord does act like a front line leader.  Only your party has no front line.  You have 3 ranged classes.  That being said, allowing your ranged party members to shift away from danger, helps then save a move action on their turn.

A warlord can have good AC and defences, with a decent amount of HP, but they are not fighters or paladins.

You would be used in the party to facilitate escapes from melee enemies and healing the group (inspiring word is a great healing power).  It is tough to give build advice without which level your char is at.  Also being limited to PHP1 removes alot of options for fine tunning your char.  



A cleric, will operate similarly, albeit in PHP1 you will be better at range than a warlord.  Also in PHP1, clerics have more abilities which give temporary buffs to allies, whereas leaders, enable free moves or attacks.

I have never played 3.0 or 3.5, but from my experience with AD&D 2 ed I can tell you playing a cleric (or any leader) is much more fun in 4e when you are not "forced" into a healbot role. 

You just need to get your head around the concept of roles in 4E.  Rangers are strikers, they are made to do loads of damage and rangers are one of the best at this.  Wizards are controllers, they sepecialize in AOE, creating zones and moving enemies around.  Defenders - the critical role missing from your party lock down enemies, often giving them a choice between a low percentage attack and provoking an opportunity attack. This is a team player role, drawing the fire from the rest of the party, particularly the squishy strikers and controllers.


You were playing a leader - leaders are the ultimate team player.  You buff your allies, give them bonus to initiative, defenses, attack, and damage; provide healing; give them extra attacks.  The measure of a leader is not what the leader does, but how much better your allies are just for you being there.  And the warlord is arguably the best at this.  With a couple of rangers you should have had power to direct the rangers to shoot an additional target in place of your attack.  Everyone should have better initiative around you.  They should get crazy bonuses when using an action point.  And best, if you had to heal someone it was a minor action and you still get an action to attack (or direct an attack).


4e combat is not about how each individual character does, it about how they do as a team, how each charater sets up an attack by the next or takes that setup and makes a devistating attack.  There is more positioning and movement than in previous additions. There are more options to do cool and interesting thing (for all character, not just the casters).  And the action econimy detangles the heal from healing and lets them do cool thing along with healing.


Give it another chance. Think about it as a team, not as your character.  Don't measure your contribution in damage dealt.  There is so much more to 4e than that.


TjD

Or, to put it another way, only the peons swing weapons.  Warlords swing barbarians.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
See if you can check out what the warlord does in later levels, that might make it worth sticking to it. If not you should probably check out the warpreist, your striker oriented party is going to need some healing.

I threw something together in character builder, try this

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Foostus, level 1
Minotaur, Cleric (Warpriest)
Domain: Storm Domain
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Mace)
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Crossbow)
Theme: Chaosmade
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 20, CHA 8
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 8
 
 
AC: 18 Fort: 13 Ref: 12 Will: 16
HP: 26 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 6
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Heal +10, History +5, Religion +5
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics –3, Athletics –2, Bluff –1, Diplomacy –1, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance –1, Insight +5, Intimidate –1, Nature +7, Perception +7, Stealth –3, Streetwise –1, Thievery –3
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Chaosmade Utility: Seed of Chaos
Minotaur Racial Power: Goring Charge
Cleric Attack: Smite Undead
Cleric Utility: Storm Surge
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Blessing of Wrath
Cleric Attack 1: Storm Hammer
Cleric Utility 1: Create Water
Cleric Attack 1: Thundering Steel
Cleric Attack 1: Levy of Judgment
 
FEATS
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
 
ITEMS
Chainmail x1
Adventurer's Kit
Mace x1
Heavy Shield x1
Crossbow
Crossbow Bolts
====== End ======


So it doesnt explain much but! With every at will blessing of wratch, you pump an ally's attack roll by 2. Sound half decent?
You sound more like you want to play a leader in the common definition, and not by the 4e definition. I would play a fighter or warden if I were you. You will be a much better tank and minor controller than your warlord; however, your party also will need a healer, so get someone to play a cleric or shaman for you. If you want to take on that healing capacity, I would choose a cleric over a warlord, but they are both great classes. The limit to phb1 is your enemy right now.
Thanks for the advice all, the DM has decided to use d&d next, so it looks like I'll be moving on already, but I do appreciate those that tried to help!
So after a brief foray into next, the dm and most of the group decided to go ahead and switch *back* to 4e.  And now the dm is saying *everything* is fair game, for better or worse! 0_o

I need a character by wednesday, and feel kinda overwhelmed.  :0 but I'll try checking out some of the things you guys recommended.  Is warden a unique class?
Warden is a class, yes.  I don't entirely know what you mean by 'unique' in this context.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Warden is a class, yes.  I don't entirely know what you mean by 'unique' in this context.



I meant is it a distinct class or is it a subclass of something, im seeing it now in insider though.
It is its own class.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

  Theoretically, all of the classes are basically "sub"classes at this point. The classes from PHB 1, 2 and 3 began as seperate classes, but when the E-classes came out were then renamed, declared "sub"classes and placed under the umbrella of the larger class, which happens to share the original name. (For example, the PHB1 Fighter is now the Weaponmaster "sub"class, and falls under the Fighter class with the Slayer and Knight.)
 However, not all of the overarching classes actually have multiple subclasses under them beyond the original version - only the fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue, ranger, paladin, warlock, assassin and druid were given the E-treatment.

   The PHB 2 Warden is technically both the overarching class and the only subclass underneath it.

Show

I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

Sign In to post comments