Lightning Lure question...

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I know its not the most optimal power to pick for a Swordmage, but I really like the idea of Lightning Lure. I'd like it even more if the range was more than 3 squares. Does anyone know of a way (a feat or Paragon ability perhaps) to increase the range for Lightning Lure? I don't think such a thing exists (yet) but thought I would ask those who might be more versed in all the options that are out there.
I think you are right. It does not exist yet. It is still a cool power, but the limited range gets me too. I mean, it's just so random...3 squares? Wherre did the 3 come from?
I guess they decided that it should only be able to pull a target a maximum of 2 squares, which is the end result of the limited range - after all, it also has the stipulation that if it can't pull the target for whatever reason, nothing happens.
I think you are right. It does not exist yet. It is still a cool power, but the limited range gets me too. I mean, it's just so random...3 squares? Wherre did the 3 come from?

Exactly. It's like, why not just move those extra squares and attack? Or make a charge attack? I do like the idea of chasing someone down, not having enough movement to reach them, and using Lightning Lure to draw them closer to you.
Exactly. It's like, why not just move those extra squares and attack? Or make a charge attack? I do like the idea of chasing someone down, not having enough movement to reach them, and using Lightning Lure to draw them closer to you.

Or if they're getting close to the squishy casters/strikers and you need to draw 'em off but can't really move out of combat (but ya can shift).

Also, I've seen it effectively used to pull someone into a chasm.
It is an at-will attack that pulls the target 2 squares. It is extremely powerful. Think along the lines of walls, zones, terrain, etc..
The way I see it, you get those extra 2 squares of reach whenever you need 'em, which can be handy. I mean, sure you could reach that enemy over there with a double move, but you can move then attack him...

Yeah, having that power's not bad at all. It's certainly welcome in a Human Swordmage's arsenal, at any rate.
Arcane Power should have a feat that extends it's range.
I don't have the book on me, and it depends on the wording of the ability but one of the three spellscared powers you can choose for taking the multiclass feat allows you to increase the range of one of your attacks by 1, once a day. It's not much, but it's a start. Well, maybe it's a start. If no one else gets to it first, I'll check my books and get back to you tomorrow.
I love lightning lure. Using it to pull enemies towards then into hazards, zones, and traps is really fun. It's also handy sometimes for setting up powers that rely on positioning or for AoE's.
I've run into encounters where certain enemies got added benefits for being adjacent to one another, like bonuses to attack and Armor Class, that sort of thing. Lightning Lure is very useful for pulling such pairs apart, making them easier to take down. Two squares is just the right distance for that. Consider what your character might lose if he was no longer adjacent to the party warlord? I think the range of 3 makes sense, considering the specific usefulness of this power in many situations. Also, consider powers and effects that might be on you that do damage automatically to any enemy that starts its turn adjacent to you. A very nice power, even with just the range of 3.
I'm thinking of a Swordmage/Wizard combo, using wall spells and pulling the enemy through them Or a Thunderwave + Lightning Lure combo (Get away from me, come back here, get away from me, come back there, etc.)
I personally love Lightning Lure. When building Swordmages, it's usually 1 of my 2 at will. Having a ranged attack is always a good thing to have when designing a well balanced character imo, even if the range is short on it.
Hm. A glaive is a sword/polearm.
Would Polearm Momentum work with Lightning Lure? It doesn't have the Weapon keyword though...
I've run into encounters where certain enemies got added benefits for being adjacent to one another, like bonuses to attack and Armor Class, that sort of thing. Lightning Lure is very useful for pulling such pairs apart, making them easier to take down. Two squares is just the right distance for that. Consider what your character might lose if he was no longer adjacent to the party warlord? I think the range of 3 makes sense, considering the specific usefulness of this power in many situations. Also, consider powers and effects that might be on you that do damage automatically to any enemy that starts its turn adjacent to you. A very nice power, even with just the range of 3.

But in a situation like that, sword burst is also a really good tool.

In particular, since it's ranged, the best time to use it is when you have no one adjacent to you. That makes it seem highly situational, which isn't what I look for in an at-will. If you're trying to pull an enemy off of an ally, dimensional warp can achieve the same kind of effect, or transposing lunge (if you have the enemy marked). If it's a problem with enemies bunched up and getting bonuses, then sword burst gives you big (spread) damage; they can stick together and get injured together, or spread out and lose their bonus. Plus, if they are grouped up, it makes defending easier. They may hit harder, but at least you are taking the hits, instead of the wizard.

There are a couple of builds where lightning lure beats its way into being useful, though. Normally I think sword burst and booming blade are the best tools, but if you are going for implement powers only (because you want to carry a light blade to multiclass into warlock, sorcerer, or rogue, for example, and won't have a lot of raw [W] damage to work with), then lightning lure is the obvious choice. Humans should pick it up, of course. And the idea of using it in conjunction with a zones and walls build is a good idea as well.

Anyway, that's just my read on it.
Swordburst with Arcane Reach sounds awesome in theory. I wonder if it's any good in practice.
I've seen it come up several times in discussions of optimal swordmage builds, but I have yet to try it. Seems like a lot of DEX to sink in.

Unless you're Eladrin, in which case you'd qualify automatically by epic tier if you don't muck with your DEX.
I've seen it come up several times in discussions of optimal swordmage builds, but I have yet to try it. Seems like a lot of DEX to sink in.

Unless you're Eladrin, in which case you'd qualify automatically by epic tier if you don't muck with your DEX.

You'd still need to put a point in at character creation. Its DEX 15 for Arcane reach.

Due to the swordmages lack of MAD getting Arcane reach is quite possible so long as you don't buy an 18 in INT. But even then I would still recommend it so long as your Eladrin.

It basicaly turns Swordburst into a Close Blast 3 at-will that targets Ref and only hits enemies. Thats like an At-will Dragon Breath.
Our stormsoul genasi picked up lightning lure just to have an at-will lightning power to use with his racial encounter power. Booming blade would have worked, but since he was str/int, the con bonus seemed kind of a waste.

Honestly, it doesn't get used that often. Mostly he sticks with sword burst or basic attacks. But last night we had kind of an odd situation in that there was a four-square area that teleported any of us that tried to step on it so we couldn't get to the buy on the back corner (and he also had higher defenses due to the area). Rather than waiting for the one ranged guy (the wizard) to take him out solo, he pulled the guy off the tiles with lightning lure and the melee ranger was all over him.

Yeah, its situational. But it definately does have its uses.
Well, I today pulled a troll chief who ran away from my Wall of Fire right back into it with Lightning Lure, which combined with Lightning Lure's own damage killed him...

That was pretty useful and cool. Zones make being able to move people worth it. Especially Large people who it is easier to hit zones with. :p
LL is useful for setting up flanking situations that don't require your buddies to move too much. I also use it to pull monsters out of corners, where they are unflankable.

It also shines in those "doorway fights": pull a poor sap inside the room, make his day, rinse and repeat until the other idiots wise-up and disperse (yeah, not the most heroic way to battle, but sometimes, it's necessary to fight smart to stay alive).

It's not your main at-will, it's a tool for certain situations.
Sebby
"I'm a bonster. Rawr!"
But in a situation like that, sword burst is also a really good tool.

In particular, since it's ranged, the best time to use it is when you have no one adjacent to you. That makes it seem highly situational, which isn't what I look for in an at-will. If you're trying to pull an enemy off of an ally, dimensional warp can achieve the same kind of effect, or transposing lunge (if you have the enemy marked). If it's a problem with enemies bunched up and getting bonuses, then sword burst gives you big (spread) damage; they can stick together and get injured together, or spread out and lose their bonus. Plus, if they are grouped up, it makes defending easier. They may hit harder, but at least you are taking the hits, instead of the wizard.

There are a couple of builds where lightning lure beats its way into being useful, though. Normally I think sword burst and booming blade are the best tools, but if you are going for implement powers only (because you want to carry a light blade to multiclass into warlock, sorcerer, or rogue, for example, and won't have a lot of raw [W] damage to work with), then lightning lure is the obvious choice. Humans should pick it up, of course. And the idea of using it in conjunction with a zones and walls build is a good idea as well.

Anyway, that's just my read on it.

Sword Burst is my other at-will. I definitely end up using it more often than Lightning Lure, but I also end up using Lightning Lure at least once an encounter. More often than not, it's to pull one more person into a square adjacent to me then spend an action point to use Sword Burst.

There's been a lot of talk about Arcane Reach, but I don't see why it's that useful. All it does is give you a range of 2 instead of it being a burst 1 around you, but ultimately, it's still affecting only 9 squares. It doesn't change it into a burst 3, which would affect 25 squares. It changes it into a burst 1 that can be targeted up to 2 squares away from you rather than centered on you, which doesn't seem worth pumping 5 extra points into DEX to me since I can just teleport or move. Or am I reading this wrong?
There's been a lot of talk about Arcane Reach, but I don't see why it's that useful. All it does is give you a range of 2 instead of it being a burst 1 around you, but ultimately, it's still affecting only 9 squares. It doesn't change it into a burst 3, which would affect 25 squares. It changes it into a burst 1 that can be targeted up to 2 squares away from you rather than centered on you, which doesn't seem worth pumping 5 extra points into DEX to me since I can just teleport or move. Or am I reading this wrong?

It affects 9 squares instead of 8 squares, right.
But it's also dependent on party configuration.
If you're the only defender and they're clustered around you anyways, then it's pointless.
If there's a second defender, or a third one, and they're mixed in with him, then you'll be able to hit more targets more often.
One thing I havn't seen mentioned is that lightning lure can be used to bring foes with reach right next to you. No attack of opertunity trying to attack it. Or if you have to fight a creature that already has extra reach and uses a reach weapon. 3 spaces is perfect for not triggering its attack.
M = Me
X = 1 square
A = Ally
E = Enemy

XXMXX
XXXXX
XXAXX
XXEXX

Can I (M) use Lightning Lure to pull the (E)nemy through my (A)lly to the empty space right in front of (M)e?
If you could it would be interesting if you could provoke an attack of oppertunity there. though i think pulling definition prevents that.
If you could it would be interesting if you could provoke an attack of oppertunity there. though i think pulling definition prevents that.

I don't think it would provoke as it is considered forced movement. But I am not sure if you can pull someone through an occupied square via forced movement.
I don't think it would provoke as it is considered forced movement. But I am not sure if you can pull someone through an occupied square via forced movement.

You can't, but in the example above, you can pull around the ally, since the squares to his left and right are closer to you than the one from which the enemy leaves. So you could pull him into a flanking position with the power in that circumstance. The range of 3 also lets you grab someone just out of range of your Aegis so you can get it on them; I open combat with walk/LL/Aegis if I end up 9 squares aware from my target, which has happened just often enough to stand out.
Lightning Lure seems to have a lot of potential to be awesome, which is why I'm swapping it in for Booming Blade on my level 2 swordmage (Sword Burst is the other). I figure that aside from the strategic uses listed here, it can also line up targets for a dragon breath (dragonborn) in the same round without having to use up an action point.
M = Me
X = 1 square
A = Ally
E = Enemy

XXMXX
XXXXX
XXAXX
XXEXX

Can I (M) use Lightning Lure to pull the (E)nemy through my (A)lly to the empty space right in front of (M)e?

yes you can. when pulling an opponement each square of the forced movement must bring him closer to you. so he can end up in any square between your ally and you.

it's also a pull -> so forced movement -> no OA
I found it really useful when fighting kobolds. I would move up to one, it would shift, and then I would use lightning lure to attack it.