Is frost weapon the best enchantment in D&D?

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Talking about a friend of mine (a true expert in the rules of the game), this issue came out: is there any reason not to choose a frost weapon as your magic weapon? With the Lasting Frost and Wintertouched feats, using a frost weapon basically gives you +2 to all attack rolls and +5 to all damage rolls, since the targets you hit get Vulnerable 5 to cold and you have combat advantage against creatures vulnerable to cold while using a power with the Cold keyword (guess what? the weapon's at-will does have that), which in turn makes you more likely to hit and extend the duration of their vulnerability.
Am I missing something?

Thanks for your attention and answers.
Give me my special gloves and a vorpal scythe any day.

And I don't know if feats affect magic items.
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Ok I'm going to get allot of flack for this but I do think you missed something.

"lasting frost" gives a target vulnerability 5 when you hit with a cold Power, no where in the description of its "At-Will" power is it attacking a creature, it targets itself, by changing its damage into frost. by your logic turning the power off, which has the same "Cold" keyword would still invoke "Lasting frost".

It is not a attack power so therefore it does not activate "Lasting frost", Its at will is more like a utility power

Now the Daily power has the cold keyword and its an attack, because its adding damage and it targets a creature, and not itself. It would activate "lasting frost" and "Winterstouched"

The whole discussion is if "Lasting frost" goes off to give you the benefits of "Wintertouched" which gives you combat advantage against foes weak to cold, when you hit with a cold power, since the "At-Will" is not a cold power that targets something other than itself it does not cause either of them to activate.



Fine Print.
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Now with that said, there will be those who don't like my ruling. That's OK, you don't have to go with my ruling, It is my opinion nothing else, my interpretation of the rules. I respect your interpretation, but I wanted to show mine too since you asked.
The frost weapon combo is definitely a good one, but I'm sure there are better. I've never been great at optimization, so I couldn't really name any combos off the top of my head, but I'm sure they're out there. Also, Frost may not mesh well with your character's theme.
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If I don't want to sink two feats into using a specific magic item that may or may not be useful then I think I could afford to pass on it.

Frost is decent on ranged weapons on runners, but I'd rather a Terror weapon or loads of other kinds over Frost on most of my characters.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
Even if the combo worked it is still far from the best since it requires a feat investment to be workable (and since as more feats are released anything can happen, weapons should be judged on their own instead of whatever combo is available unless it i overpowered and this isn't so overpowered at all)
Ok I'm going to get allot of flack for this but I do think you missed something.

"lasting frost" gives a target vulnerability 5 when you hit with a cold Power, no where in the description of its "At-Will" power is it attacking a creature, it targets itself, by changing its damage into frost. by your logic turning the power off, which has the same "Cold" keyword would still invoke "Lasting frost".

It is not a attack power so therefore it does not activate "Lasting frost", Its at will is more like a utility power

Now the Daily power has the cold keyword and its an attack, because its adding damage and it targets a creature, and not itself. It would activate "lasting frost" and "Winterstouched"

The whole discussion is if "Lasting frost" goes off to give you the benefits of "Wintertouched" which gives you combat advantage against foes weak to cold, when you hit with a cold power, since the "At-Will" is not a cold power that targets something other than itself it does not cause either of them to activate.

What would you say to this when the "cold weapon" is dragon breath?
Please pread p226 of PHB.
Power
...When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item's power and the other power all apply. For instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack with a power that deals radiant damage, the power deals both fire damage and radiant damage.

So the cold identifier is in fact attached to any attacks made with the weapon. Mind you, my interpretation of the two feats is that you must prime it with a "normal" hit then the feat combo takes affect with future hits. Given the lackluster nature of feats in 4e, I consider it an A++ feat combo. I'm sure there are creatures in the game with high resistance or immunity to cold, which would pose problems, but overall, it is very powerful, especially in the hands of a rogue.
Please pread p226 of PHB.
Power
...When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item's power and the other power all apply. For instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack with a power that deals radiant damage, the power deals both fire damage and radiant damage.

So the cold identifier is in fact attached to any attacks made with the weapon. Mind you, my interpretation of the two feats is that you must prime it with a "normal" hit then the feat combo takes affect with future hits. Given the lackluster nature of feats in 4e, I consider it an A++ feat combo. I'm sure there are creatures in the game with high resistance or immunity to cold, which would pose problems, but overall, it is very powerful, especially in the hands of a rogue.

Xianqi, I have read PHB 226, thanks, however it is the later interpretation of "priming" it with a "normal" hit that makes all the difference.

As I understand your interpretation of a need for prime, with a breath weapon (which can be used only once per encounter) Wintertouched is worthless, excepting for the four Magma creatures whom are naturally vulnerable to cold per the MM.

I don't read from PHB 234 where hitting a creature with a cold weapon makes it vulnerable to cold for the purpose of Wintertouched.
If using my breath weapon doesn't allow for the Wintertouch on the first go as Lasting Frost makes the creature vulnerable 5 to cold, then it never will. I don't get a "prime" breath plus a "follow-up" breath.

So, does Wintertouched EVER apply to a breath weapon apart from Magma creatures?
With out analysing all monsters in the manual, I cannot say how useful wintertouched on it's own would be in the Heroic Teir.

There are loads of powers that would trigger it (anything with the Cold Keyword), and a Frost Weapon that has been switched on would qualify. Equally, Dragonborn Breath attack that is cold bases would also use it.

However, in the heroic Teir there are very few (if any) monsters that are vulnerable to cold naturally. You list the Magma Creatures, and the may be the only ones.

As soon as you reach Paragon the Lasting Frost feat starts giving creatures vulnerability to cold and wintertouched is suddenly a powerful feat....

Any attack with the COLD keyword (Powers, Dragonbreath attack cold based, switched on Frost Weapon) will give the target vulnerability to cold, at which point anybody with wintertouched gets CA when using their own Cold Powers...
Any attack with the COLD keyword (Powers, Dragonbreath attack cold based, switched on Frost Weapon) will give the target vulnerability to cold, at which point anybody with wintertouched gets CA when using their own Cold Powers...

I guess I am just thick on this... Can you show me where this is written? Only Lasting Frost states that the target is made cold vulnerable. Other cold weapons/breath just do cold damage. Damage is not vulnerable, is it?

Does anyone know of any "non-Magma" creatures that are cold vulnerable?

Thanks all for your help!
I guess I am just thick on this... Can you show me where this is written? Only Lasting Frost states that the target is made cold vulnerable. Other cold weapons/breath just do cold damage. Damage is not vulnerable, is it?

Does anyone know of any "non-Magma" creatures that are cold vulnerable?

Thanks all for your help!

If you have Lasting Frost, everything is cold vulnerable after you hit it. And the +2 to attack rolls you get from combat advantage ensures it remains that way.
Now with that said, there will be those who don't like my ruling. That's OK, you don't have to go with my ruling, It is my opinion nothing else, my interpretation of the rules. I respect your interpretation, but I wanted to show mine too since you asked.

Although I like your ruling, WotC has already weighted in favor of allowing this, creating an expectation among players. Disallowing it could create issues.
If you have Lasting Frost, everything is cold vulnerable after you hit it. And the +2 to attack rolls you get from combat advantage ensures it remains that way.

I presume it follows that if you do NOT have the Lasting Frost Feat, nothing you hit is vulnerable? So (without the Lasting Frost Feat) Wintertouched is no help, but for the Four "naturally" vulnerable Magma creatures.

Published reference would be very helpful should anyone disagree with my presumption, or for that matter, Klaus the Prince's initial statement.

Thanks guys.
Clan Tura
No one in my group uses frost weapons. Yeah, they're really cool and all, but I have better things to spend 2 feats on. CA doesn't stack with more CA, so it's not like you're getting an untyped +2 to hit.
I presume it follows that if you do NOT have the Lasting Frost Feat, nothing you hit is vulnerable? So (without the Lasting Frost Feat) Wintertouched is no help, but for the Four "naturally" vulnerable Magma creatures.

Published reference would be very helpful should anyone disagree with my presumption, or for that matter, Klaus the Prince's initial statement.

Thanks guys.
Clan Tura

Did you actually read my initial statement? Because I explicitly mentioned the Wintertouched + Lasting Frost + frost weapon combo, and that combo only.
Did you actually read my initial statement? Because I explicitly mentioned the Wintertouched + Lasting Frost + frost weapon combo, and that combo only.

I read you Klaus. And I agreed. I was simply adding to it what the reality would be without having Lasting Frost, for my own clarity.

No bones here. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I read you Klaus. And I agreed. I was simply adding to it what the reality would be without having Lasting Frost, for my own clarity.

No bones here. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Oh, well, ok. The reality would be pretty sucking, in fact. My bad, I misunderstood you.
Oh, well, ok. The reality would be pretty sucking, in fact. My bad, I misunderstood you.

And so, in the time before Paragon - where Wintertouched exists without Lasting Frost - what IS the use of Wintertouched???
And so, in the time before Paragon - where Wintertouched exists without Lasting Frost - what IS the use of Wintertouched???

None. That's the reason you should take Lasting Frost at 11th level and, at the same time, retrain another heroic feat for Wintertouched. ;)
Frost weapon is by far not the best enchantment. Just think about that it doesn't work as most WANT it to ...

Lasting Frost gives vulnerability to cold until next turn. Wintertouched gives combat advantage on enemy vulnerable to cold. So far so good.

However, a Frost-enchanted weapon is not a power with the cold keyword. Also, the at-will power from a frost weapon only changes the damage type of the weapon, it is not a power with which you attack an enemy!
So the only way to use those two feats with a frost weapon is with it's daily power which is somehow crap to waste two feats for one use per day.

The dragonborn breath instead IS a power with cold keyword (if you deal cold damage with your breath) which makes use of the two feats.

ad Topic: Because of this I think the Frost-enchantment is, if at all, a mediocre enchantment.
However, a Frost-enchanted weapon is not a power with the cold keyword. Also, the at-will power from a frost weapon only changes the damage type of the weapon, it is not a power with which you attack an enemy!

FAQ number 15 contradicts you: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396
People are still arguing that this combo doesn't work... and not reading their books?

And no, even with the combo, a Frost Weapon is FAR from the best weapon enchantment out there. It's excellent for a rogue in a small group, but there are far better combos available.

EDIT

Felt that I should add that people only feel that this is such a good combo because the material available is limited right now, three books, with a fourth soon to release, makes intensive combos seem better than they really are.
Please pread p226 of PHB.
Power
...When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item's power and the other power all apply. For instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack with a power that deals radiant damage, the power deals both fire damage and radiant damage.

So the cold identifier is in fact attached to any attacks made with the weapon. Mind you, my interpretation of the two feats is that you must prime it with a "normal" hit then the feat combo takes affect with future hits. Given the lackluster nature of feats in 4e, I consider it an A++ feat combo. I'm sure there are creatures in the game with high resistance or immunity to cold, which would pose problems, but overall, it is very powerful, especially in the hands of a rogue.

They're not reading the thread either. The combo is awesome, but you don't benefit from the combo until you've hit the target once to grant the vulnerability to cold, all following attacks gain the combat advantage and vulnerability.

Guy I quoted is correct.