Scourge warlock optimization

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Hi.
I just created a tifling infernal pact scourge warlock. My wife wants a PC that deals pain, abundant pain.
Con and Int are the most important scores. Charisma comes third for this class of warlock.
Unfortunately, tiflings get +2 Int and +2 Cha and there's no race that has +2 to my most important scores. Well, maybe something strange like a gith in the  third players handbook, witch I don't want in this campaign. I like tiflings.
I used the second method for generating my scores and came up with this (racial bonuses included):
Str 8
Con 18
Dex 10
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 13 
Also, I used the Tymanther forgotten realms background for a +2 to athletics.
Feat: hellfire Blood for +1 to attack and damage with fire and fear powers.

My concers are the following:
-The 17 AC I have with light armor and concealment seems  a bit low for a character the needs to stay close her enemies to benefit from bonuses like prime  shot, warlocks curse, etc.
-She's going to have to manouver expertly to obtain that +2 shadow walk concealment or otherwise probably loose HP. Infernal pact doesn't teleport.
-How will she avoid continuous attacks of opportunity by stepping away from melee if shes relentlessly followed by an enemy in a small dungeon.

Anyone with this type of warlock experience who can help?
There are several races that can get +2 to Constitution and Intelligence over than Githyanki, namely Hobgoblin, Warforged, Tinker Gnome and Genasi. What sources do you have access to?

Your ability scores are too low. WIth 8/17/10/16/10/11 before racial modifiers, you should still have 3 points left.  
Thanks but I don't have and don't realy like those other races. Warforged, I'll look into though.
I have players handbooks 1&2

I took the scores from the table in handbook 1 page 18:
18/14/11/10/10/8
With the racial bonuses for a tifling I upgrade to:
18/16/13/10/10/8 
This seems correct to me. If they are wrong, I'd glad to raise them.

The game isn't till Friday so it's still open for modifications. Id realy love to keep the tifling though.

thanks 
Because of the point buy system's escalating ability score cost, it costs more to buy a natural 18/14/11 for your CON/INT/CHA and take the INT/CHA bonuses rather than to buy a 16/16/13 and take the CON/CHA bonuses. (Note, you could also go 17/15/13 and still have a 12 to plug into DEX to qualify for Dual Implement Spellcaster at Paragon tier.)

It may not be the most optimized Warlock, but a player in my game is currently using the following build, which accomplishes much of what you have outlined here:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... 
Nobodies outright stated it yet, but Tieflings racial modifiers are +2 Cha; +2 Con or +2 Int. Ever since PHB3, races have started getting choices for stat mods.
Thanks. Ill see Howe to fit that in.
Paragon path is to far ahead for me to consider. I don't think we'll afford the time to get there.
Im realy interested in any insight on how to handle warlocks during encounters and how to equip and evolve them in the first levels of the game.
Is armor or an Implement the first buy?
Should she stay back and renounce bonuses or get her hands dirty and provoke attacks of opportunity moving away from melee combat?
I didn't know there was a revision to tiflings I that manual. What page? It only covers other races as far as I know...
Here is the Rule Update Archive

The tiefling stat choice is mentioned in the pdf for Players Handbook 1. A lot has changed since the books were written, most of it for the better. It's up to your group if you want to implement all the changes.

It is likely she will get beat up some. That should be okay since she has a bunch of HP and surges with CON as her primary score. Her boon grants additional toughness through temporary HP.

If she needs to move away from something, she can shift. It won't be enough to trigger Shadow Walk, but it prevents taking OAs.

Her best bet is to work with the defender. Defenders make it a bad idea to attack people other than them, so if she draws OAs it will trigger the defenders punishment as well as the generic -2 from the mark.
Great advice. I'll check those updates.I was hoping not to depend on temporary hit points too much, but it seams there's no way around it.
Defender, well... Shes going to hang around with a monk a psion and maybe an avenger Cool

What equipment should she spend her gold on? 
Here's the Warlock Handbook. It has equipment suggestions at the bottom of page 1 and top of 2.
Can you use the warlock´s curse per turn o per round? Whats the diference?
I suspect one of them includes free acctions and such.
Could I deal the curse damage with my tiflings infernal wrath free action even though I may have used it previously during my standard action?
Does it apply to the 2nd 1d6 from hellish rebuke?
Can you use the warlock´s curse per turn o per round? Whats the diference?
I suspect one of them includes free acctions and such.
Could I deal the curse damage with my tiflings infernal wrath free action even though I may have used it previously during my standard action?
Does it apply to the 2nd 1d6 from hellish rebuke?



Once per turn you can deal the extra damage.

PHB covers what a round consists of and what a turn consists of, as well as when you can deal your curse damage, though replace the instances of dealing damage to turn, rather than round.    
Can you use the warlock´s curse per turn o per round? Whats the diference?
I suspect one of them includes free acctions and such.
Could I deal the curse damage with my tiflings infernal wrath free action even though I may have used it previously during my standard action?
Does it apply to the 2nd 1d6 from hellish rebuke?


Each individual in the combat get one turn during a round of combat.  You can deal Warlock's Curse damage once per turn - so, if you can find a way to attack cursed targets on other turns than your own (opportunity attacks, leader-granted attacks, immediate actions), you can deal curse damage once per other combatant's turn.

You only apply it once per instance of damage, so no, it doesn't apply to the second d6 of Infernal Wrath.  I'm fairly sure it relies on you hitting with an attack to trigegr, so it doesn't actually apply to Wrath at all.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Yes, curse applies to the second instance of Hellish Rebuke as long as it's not the same turn. For example if you used HR and then immediately walked into damaging terrain to set it off, you wouldn't get curse because both instances of damage are happening on the same turn.

And it does work with Infernal Wrath. I think space is thinking of the old version of IW (wasn't it errata'd at some point?) or a different power.

I take it back. I don't think it works because curse requires you to hit an enemy with an attack. IW doesn't hit, it just deals an effect. Thought space was referring to IW rather than curse.
Actually, Warlock's Curse can't apply to Infernal Wrath or the extra damage from Hellish Rebuke as Curse specifies 'when you hit a target', and neither of those damage instances have attack rolls, so you never 'hit' them
The extra damage for HR is in the "hit" line of the power.
The extra damage for HR is in the "hit" line of the power.

Yeah.  The same Hit line as the initial damage, which is when you applied your curse damage.
Actually, it's not of interest if it's in the hit line or not. Things that apply on a hit require a hit roll to occur right before, of which there's only one in Hellish Rebuke's example.
Actually, it's not of interest if it's in the hit line or not. Things that apply on a hit require a hit roll to occur right before, of which there's only one in Hellish Rebuke's example.

Doesn't sound like any rule I've heard of before. You have a citation? 

As far as I'm concerned, there are two constraints here. 

Did you hit with the power? Check.
Is it a new turn? Check.
But you DON'T hit with the power during the second instance of damage.  It just deals damage.  There's no hit there.
Yes, but you hit with a power to get the damage roll at all.. If you had not hit with a power, it would not be happening.

It's exactly the same situation as if you had a power that said 'Hit: 2d6+stat damage, 2d6+stat damage (this is a separate damage instance)'.  The fact that it happens on a different turn is irrelevant.

If it was an Effect: line, you'd have a point.  but it's not, it's part of the power's Hit: line.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
That seems a dodgy interpretation of the rules. The compendium is down as I'm writing this, but I believe the wording on Warlock's Curse is something along the lines of 'Once per turn, when you hit an enemy with a power...', which would mean you had to Hit the enemy (ie, rolled to attack) on the turn you want to use the curse. This is automatic damage, so it shouldn't apply, in a similar way to how something that happens 'when you hit an enemy' can't apply to a Magic Missile, since there is no 'to hit' roll
"If you hit a cursed enemy with an attack, you deal extra damage. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. You can deal this extra damage only once per turn."

I think it's ambiguity of "attack" here. "Attack roll" would require the second instance to hit. "Attack power" would not. The RC says "attack" can mean either.

Looks to me like curse is tied to the damage roll rather than the attack roll. You make an attack, you hit, and when you roll damage you can choose to apply curse. I don't see any time restriction that says the damage roll has to be immediately after the attack roll, and the restriction is just once per turn, not once per hit or once per power.

I'd argue that it's not automatic damage at all. It's completely contingent on the power hitting, every bit as contingent as the initial damage. That's why it's in the hit line.

I'm not positive that I'm right here. I just want to have a good answer if it comes up at our table.
Me too. I'm definitely not 100% that my reading is the correct one, and I can see your argument, especially given the wording.

I, however, would be hesitant to let a PC at my table have the second instance of curse damage. I'm fine with two damage instances from an At-Will, which is powerful in and of itself, but the nearest (and always gold rated) power to it, as far as two damage instances goes, is Twin Strike, and that doesn't allow two instances of Hunter's Quarry (or even two instances of +stat, as Hellish Rebuke does)
Me too. I'm definitely not 100% that my reading is the correct one, and I can see your argument, especially given the wording. I, however, would be hesitant to let a PC at my table have the second instance of curse damage. I'm fine with two damage instances from an At-Will, which is powerful in and of itself, but the nearest (and always gold rated) power to it, as far as two damage instances goes, is Twin Strike, and that doesn't allow two instances of Hunter's Quarry (or even two instances of +stat, as Hellish Rebuke does)

That comparison doesn't quite work, to me.  Quarry damage only happens once per round (baseline), and both of Twin Strike's damage instances have to happen in the same turn.
Well, I'm not talking about a straight mechanical comparison so much as I am a relative comparison in power (for an At-Will), ie:

Twin strikes potential damage (over a round) is 2[W] + 2x Static Mods + 1x Quarry. Note that there are seperate attack rolls (which can be better or worse, depending on your accuracy).

Hellish Rebuke (with the curse on the second instance of damage, as is being discussed) is potentially:
(1d6 + stat + static mod + curse) x2. With a single attack roll (again, debatable whether this is better or worse). It's also potentially easier to boost damage based on exploiting vulnerabilities based on elemental damage, and better feat support for curse (depending on Pact). There's also the drawback of having to take damage, but that's really not that difficult to ensure, if you build with it in mind or face environmental damage regularly.

Again, a lot of conditional stuff, but I think a second instance of curse would make HR quite powerful
That comparison doesn't quite work, to me.  Quarry damage only happens once per round (baseline), and both of Twin Strike's damage instances have to happen in the same turn.

Quarry is waaaaay weirder than that by RAW.
Me too. I'm definitely not 100% that my reading is the correct one, and I can see your argument, especially given the wording. I, however, would be hesitant to let a PC at my table have the second instance of curse damage. I'm fine with two damage instances from an At-Will, which is powerful in and of itself, but the nearest (and always gold rated) power to it, as far as two damage instances goes, is Twin Strike, and that doesn't allow two instances of Hunter's Quarry (or even two instances of +stat, as Hellish Rebuke does)


I see your argument, and raise you Riposte Strike, which is designed to do exactly this...
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Touché
That comparison doesn't quite work, to me.  Quarry damage only happens once per round (baseline), and both of Twin Strike's damage instances have to happen in the same turn.

Quarry is waaaaay weirder than that by RAW.

No doubt, but I was just pointing out that comparing a damage boost that happens 1/turn combined with a multi-tap where the second tap can happen off-turn to a 1/round damage boost combined with a power that hits twice on the same turn seems kinda... apples and oranges to me.

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