What if...

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Just a thought experiment, now that the edition has come to an end. If you have a "what if..." scenario of your own, feel free to post it. 

What if there was a Sorcerer build that used Intelligence as your secondary stat? What cool combos and hybrids would that open up? Would hybrid sorcerer finally become a thing? 
Rogue|Sorc was strong before a dev nerfed it based on his home game. Fighter|Sorc is strong, Barb|Sorc used to be pretty strong, as well, and the Paragon Hybrid version is silly in that it makes striker benchmarks and is basically unhittable the first 2-3 rounds of an encounter and unhittable a couple of encounters per day.


It'd make Bard a slightly more interesting hybrid.
Hybrid Sorc IS a thing ;)  the thread abotu Sorc|Fighter recently demonstrates that.

My favourite what if is the Binder.  I'd've loved a proper controller Warlock, and had a great idea for doing it as a pet class.  But twas not to be. 

Also, what if more Blackguard and Cavalier Virtues/Vices, Sentinel Seasons, a Gloom Pact for the O-Warlock, etc etc etc.

A CHA/INT Sorc would have made for insteresting Sorc|Lock possibilities.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Because tieflings need more persuasion to be sorcerers? 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
What is NADs were based off 1 of 3 stats? So you were never forced to double up on a NAD.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I wanted a feat that let eladrin elementalist use int as a secondary stat.  I also really wanted hybrid rules for the elementalist.

in more general terms I think that a Cha/Int Sorcerer would have lead a lot more folks to build Wizard|Sorcerer hybrids.  Even as is you see that pretty regularly here.  Sorcerer|Swordmage might also have been a thing.  LazyLord|Sorcerer would have been even easier.   But most of all I agree with a post above ... Bard|Sorcerer would have been easier and had more PP options.
What is NADs were based off 1 of 3 stats? So you were never forced to double up on a NAD.



Like, Fort = Str/Con/?, Ref = Dex/Int/?, and Will = Wis/Cha/? 

I'm interested in how you'd choose that third stat. No matter what you do, you'd make one or two stats almost mandatory compared to the rest, thus significantly weakening a number classes. Basically the Bladesinger problem redux.

For example, let's say Fort also keys off Dex, Ref keys off Wis and Will keys off Int. Str- and Con-classes without Int or Wis as secondary become worse, as do Cha-classes without Dex.
svendj, what if, at character creation, one could pick one of each Str/Con, Dex/Int and Cha/Wis and match each to a different NAD it doesn't already contribute to? Would fix that issue, give two good NADs for Str/Con, Dex/Int and Cha/Wis builds and 3 good NADs for everyone else.

What if anything that's a "bonus to damage rolls" (enhancement/feat/item/racial/power bonus, but not extra damage) would apply per [W] of a weapon power? Multiattacks wouldn't be as necessary (and could still be better than 10[W] powers if vulnerabilities are sufficiently exploited).
I recently tried to come up with a system of how to do that for implement powers (I don't want Dazzling Ray to get bonuses 6 time and deal half damage on a miss, that's too much for a level 1 power).
Fort = highest physical skill (str/con/dex)

Will = highest mental skill (int/wis/cha)

Reflex = your second highest skill

That would be one way of doing it. There are many others. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Fort = highest physical skill (str/con/dex)

Will = highest mental skill (int/wis/cha)

Reflex = your second highest skill

That would be one way of doing it. There are many others. 


Seems it'd be easier to just roll Fortitude and Reflex into one then. Anyway, regarding the What If question, this would probably make it more viable for monsters to attack your AC, since nobody has or should have a weak NAD anymore. 

What if anything that's a "bonus to damage rolls" (enhancement/feat/item/racial/power bonus, but not extra damage) would apply per [W] of a weapon power? Multiattacks wouldn't be as necessary (and could still be better than 10[W] powers if vulnerabilities are sufficiently exploited).
I recently tried to come up with a system of how to do that for implement powers (I don't want Dazzling Ray to get bonuses 6 time and deal half damage on a miss, that's too much for a level 1 power).


Funny you should say that. I've actually done a calculation like this once on the Housrules forum. The result was that, although multi-attackers still won out, the gap was just about closed. The Big [W] attackers had the advantage though of not blowing through their arsenal of minor action powers in their nova round, so they could potentially do it again if they had some more Big [W] powers available.
What if more people had actually given 4e a chance instead of immediately "jumping ship"?  I think there are tons of unexplored possibilities that "could have been" if there had been more support from people playing the game.

What if all classes had a mandatory class feature which *forced* them to use their primary stat (defined by the class, not by which stat is highest) as their MBA stat?  This would have eliminated cheesy builds such as the all-DEX Slayer and would give non-Essentials classes a better MBA from the get-go (I'm looking at you, Battlemind) without wasting a feat or forcing them to have to use certain gear.

The main problem with that idea is that it then locks certain races out of being able to be certain classes, due to lack of stat synergy.       
I did see if I could find something on this forum that would help me and I did indeed find that post and it was quite helpful (I think multiattacks still win the optimisation battle by inflicting vulnerabilities and wielding Firewind Blades).

Did you find a way to make implement powers scale the same way?
You can use the same rule for implement powers. I mean, why not? Just know that you're going to run into problems with some powers that weren't designed with this rule in mind, and it will make some powers like Combust and Dancing Flames instantly better (basically turning wizards into strikers). 
Mostly because you wont find 6[W], half damage on a miss level 1 dailies. But whatever, I'll try it out with my group next time I DM.
I always wanted to play a warden that had close brust 2/3/4 by tier difficult terrain around them. I always hated how unsticky they get and I feel like while it would negate some of their dailies, it would be cool to see.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I always wanted to play a warden that had close brust 2/3/4 by tier difficult terrain around them.



Sounds interesting. As an aura that's always on? Would it be difficult terrain for enemies only, or for everyone but you?
yup. Always on. And I was leaning towards enemies only. If only because burst 3 can be pretty big and it could get really annoying.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

What if all classes had a mandatory class feature which *forced* them to use their primary stat (defined by the class, not by which stat is highest) as their MBA stat?  This would have eliminated cheesy builds such as the all-DEX Slayer and would give non-Essentials classes a better MBA from the get-go (I'm looking at you, Battlemind) without wasting a feat or forcing them to have to use certain gear.
     



I houseruled this as optional for all weapon classes in my home group, as the official rules didn't make that much sense to me, and this simplified the number of attack stats my mostly new group had to track.  It's worked out.  I don't have anyone going high-op, which might change the viability of the rule.  

Bladesinger as a controller/striker concept had a lot of potential for me. I love the idea of contributing to focus fire while controlling other enemies around the board. If only their tricks worked on 2-3 targets instead of one, and they got more options via encounter/dailies.

Same deal with Hunter, he needs a way to control multiple enemies, and a few tools that are more daily controller power caliber.
Mostly because you wont find 6[W], half damage on a miss level 1 dailies. But whatever, I'll try it out with my group next time I DM.

Don't make it a 6W attack then, make it a 3W attack where the weapon die is 2d6, just like Maul and a 3W attack.  You'll find plenty of those, except for the 1/2 damage on a miss part.

I've always thought that it would be awesome for CLASS to give you a +2 to its main stat, and race then gives you a choice of +2 to one of 2 or 3 other stats, but you shouldn't be able to double-dip to start.  
That way it's much easier to have off-race/class combos like Dwarven Rogues or Halfling Fighters or Barbarians.  
I've always thought that it would be awesome for CLASS to give you a +2 to its main stat, and race then gives you a choice of +2 to one of 2 or 3 other stats, but you shouldn't be able to double-dip to start.



I allow this in my games when players want to play a race for flavor reasons and it lacks support (Tieflings and Dragonborn don't get this special treatment).
Theres nothing cheesy about an all-dex slayer. In fact, its inferior to a Str/Dex Slayer.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
What if crits were like 3e where the damage was doubled, then the weapon crit damage was added? I also like the idea of percentile dice being rolled for a crit chart specific for multi-crits. (Ex: double crit chart and 3+ crit chart) I like the DM deciding what happens, but this would add some fun options to broaden the possibilities.
What if larger creatures made sense and had lower reflex defenses? What if every at-will had its own basic attack version? What if feat bonuses stacked?
I've also toyed with some houserules which very likely later the game so much that it just doesn't feel like D&D again.
They are as follows: 
Attacker rolls against a static DC to hit, be it AC/FORT/REF/WILL, where hitting that DC results in rolling damage as normal.  Beat it by 5, and you max your weapon damage and add 1d6 per every 5 levels, (much like crits are already handled)  a natural 20 is double damage.  Miss the DC by less than 5 and you roll your base damage in W or damage die in the power, but add no modifiers.  Miss by more than 5 and you can take damage, ignoring any resists and ignoring THP's to then deal damage equal to a miss of -1 to -4.  

The other change is to radically alter skills, basing it off d6 rolls, with 1-3 as no success, 4,5 as success and 6 as great success (re-roll), with DC's being much lower, stealing heavily from MouseGuard on this point.  

These changes are so far from what D&D is Iconically, that I've never had a full group agree to use them.

@I throw a rock at it:   Why do large creatures have lower Reflex Defense?  Are you going from a simulationist standpoint, that big things don't dodge stuff as well?  

Oh, here's another what-if?   What if we altered the bursts/blasts by 1 step, so a Burst 1 isn't a 3x3 square, but a 2x2 square, of which the "origin point" is the center of the square?  You'd not attack squares in a burst, but corners, so that changes things significantly.


@Dobbledigoop:  In all the games I've run with that houserule on off-race/class combos,  I've only seen it used once, but reverse engineered.  I had a player with a Halfling Cleric who asked if he could based STR Cleric Powers off DEX.  
What if larger creatures made sense



trying to force things to 'make sense' seems to be the source of every bad house rule, things already make sense because MAGIC

   What if instead of creating the Hexblade, and then creating Pact Blade Manifestation and Mastery (I think the other one was?) only to nerf them back out of existence, they had just rolled certain aspects of the Hexblade into the regular Warlock as alternate class features and/or feats? Sort of creating the capability for making an actual melee build beyond just hybriding Executioner and opping Eldritch Strike...

Show

I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

What if every race had gotten tiefling/dragonborn level support? (I hate those guys)

What if revenants were the size category of their past life?

What if sorcerers could naturally use any weapon type as an implement? What if they all had Accurate superior versions?

What if the fabled Axe/Hammer weapon had actually happened?

What if every stat didn't become homogenized? What if some classes just had bad AC (besides just the shaman and swarm druid) ? 
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
I wanted to see a CHA secondary monk build based on fear and intimidation.
"You can not stand against the force of my chi in the resplendit phoenix stance!"
and an empty hand monk build that gained bounuses if the implement you used was ki foucus or weapon MUS as well as modifiers that would make MBAs with MUS good
And a monk at will that could be used after a chage
"FLYING SIDE KICK"  

I wanted to see a multiclass book with more feats and paragon paths for multiclass or hybrid  synergy.
A feat that lets you apply all targetted class features at once. divine challenge and warlocks curse as one minor action. not a corner case feat for every combo but 2 or 3 feats with A / B lists for half a dozen class features each.  
 
The berserker switched in combat from aura deffender to striker I was thinking of an E-paladin  build that did the same thing. sliding from the virtue of the righteous protector to the vice of the self righteous punisher.

I was a fan of the astral pact warlock idea that deals with non devil dwellers of the astral sea.

More "fighting style" type feats for other power sources.
Spirit mentors for primal
Schools for arcane, (minor blood lines for sorc),    
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
What if there had actually been features built in to the Assault Swordmage to make STR secondary desired (like adding STR bonus to Aegis-triggered attacks).
I'd love to see a write-up for a hybrid version of the berserker so we can finally have a proper aura-based defender that works as a hybrid.

Something like "you gain the vengeful guardian feature, but can only take the OA once/round".
What if larger creatures made sense and had lower reflex defenses?



The world should never be so fair to PC races.  No mouse will ever be as strong or as fast as a human, no human will ever be as strong or as fast as the Tarrasque. Wink

And a monk at will that could be used after a chage
"FLYING SIDE KICK"  
 



Well, there are some monk encounter powers that have movement techniques that allow the use of the attack power during a move, so that is kinda close. If you rule that the attack powers, when used this way, are only move actions, they are pretty good picks too.
What if there had actually been features built in to the Assault Swordmage to make STR secondary desired (like adding STR bonus to Aegis-triggered attacks).


I ran into this a while back: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

If you're into houserules, you might find it interesting.
A feat that lets you apply all targetted class features at once. divine challenge and warlocks curse as one minor action.



that'd be nice
What if other elements had been given the same levels of support that Frost (and to a lesser extent radiant, lightning, fire) got?
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
What if other elements had been given the same levels of support that Frost (and to a lesser extent radiant, lightning, fire) got?


It would be pretty cool if all elements had some signature thing going for them. Perhaps not just damage, but also status effects. 

Apart from that, I'm not sure it would really matter aside from the flavor. 
No, I don't necessarily mean damage support - I;'d really like it if damage types were as optimisable as weapon types - some of them more damaging, some of them more controlling, some of them designed more for AoE, some designed more for focus.

I'd've also liked it if Frost hadn't been all about damage.  That makes less sense to me than it being about slowing and impeding movement.  I can come up with a logic for frost doing what it does currently, but it would seem more natural to me for it to do things like slow, immobilise, restrain, penalise attacks, generally affect the guy's movement.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Exactly, with acid lowering defenses, fire creating damaging zones, lightning dazing, stunning and doing 'chain lightning'-type effects, thunder doing even more with bursting and blasting, force pushing and proning, that sort of stuff.

I'd love it if that was more supported with classless content like feats, themes and paragon paths. A chance that was missed with HotEC. 
That sort of thing, yeah.  I'd've loved a sequence of 'element shaper' PPs (and themes that didn't suck) and HotEC would have been an ideal place to do it.

Ah well, we're in 'what if' here.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
...with acid lowering defenses...



Acid op, kind of, already does exactly that: Ooze Master. It doesn't even have a drawback, since Ooze Master is a prime pick theme for many builds (e.g. as a set-up for Morninglords), anyway.
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