"Best" striker at levels 1-3?

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I know, that's an impossible question to answer without knowing more about the party, play-stlye, etc.

Still... I'm tired of playing defenders and leaders for a bit. I want to roll dice and do tons of damage. Period. Our group has had three strikers so far at various times:

1. Brutal Scoundrel Rogue that thought she was a front-liner and got knocked out pretty much every combat. Retired.

2. Hell-lock that stays way at the back and fires Hellish Rebuke all the time. Will be retired.

3. Rageblood Barbarian who just is a damage machine but is practically attached at the hip to my cleric to remain standing. May still be with the party.

Ideally, I'd want to play one of the other strikers, but I can admit that I also don't want to play a 'weak' one. I can RP the character differently if necessary.

We're going to be level 1, so we've got to start with the basics. Any recommendations are appreciated. Thx!
Sorcerers have the gold for AoE Damage, Rogues start with a lot of damage early but don't scale all too well, Rangers eventually pick up as the #1 single-target DPR striker. Randomly, fighters also compete for top DPR, especially at early levels with either a Doublesword and Dual Strike or an Executioner's Axe and Brash Strike.
TWF rangers do a lot of damage, even at early levels.

I'm currently loving my Dragon sorcerer, crazy AoE damage is fuuuun. We have a barbarian for solo fights, too.
TWF rangers do a lot of damage, even at early levels.

They also have some nice mobility, and rolling two attacks a turn almost all the time tends to reduce the frustration of whiffing.

Getting Toughness for free doesn't stink either.
Eladrin tempest with urgosh with Eladrin Soldier
-Rain of Blows, Dual Strike(d12/d8), +2 damage from Soldier is solid
-Villain's menace loves Dual strike

Dwarf Ranger with War axes with Dwarven Weapon Training
-Stats aren't in the best spot but 2xd12 + 2x2(dwarven training)... + HQ = :D
-Minor Second wind + toughness + Cloak of the walking wounded = Durable

Bugbear Brutal Scoundrel with Mage's large double sword and backstabber @ 1st
-With CA d10 + 1(magic) + 5(str) + 5(dex) + 2d8 = ouchie

Those are the main contenders for single Target DPR.

As you get above level 3 the fighter and ranger are neck and neck because of dual/twin strike, which the Giant Riding Lizard loves (Level 6 item/monster). The Rogue can keep up if he stretches for it, but always requires CA to be effective whereas the other 2 don't.

The barbarian I haven't had experience with.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I'd say to consider a sorcerer.

It gives you a different flavor than the martial guys you have likely played a lot lately.

The sorc is a mix between wizard and warlock. They focus on AoE damage, but are still solid at single target damage as well.

They work nicely at close range with bursts, but ALSO are solid at long range too. I have been very pleased with their versatility.


Id encourage you to read my guide (the first few paragraphs that describe their playstyle) to help you make a decision.


http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=18516579
My Sorc Guide Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19649162/Joes_Sorcerer_Guide_AP_update_51509 My Genesi Wizard Blaster Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25082729/Miniguide_to_Genesi_LightningThunder_Blaster_Wizard_%2806-2010%29
I'd like to give a to the Chaos' mini Rain of Steel for auto damage, even if it means you're up and close with the baddies.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I'd say Avenger, Full blade or Executioners Axe, get yourself RROT, for a crit every encounter, get a vicious weapon. By level 2 welcome to Crits every encounter for around 40-50 damage, use your encounter and daily in one round with an action point and clear 100 damage. :D

Oh and rolling twice to attack means you rarely miss, missing is just no fun at all...

Daniel.
RRoT is also stupid and should not be touched. Ever.
I want to roll dice and do tons of damage. Period.

My suggestion seems good to me.

You don't have to agree of course SadisticFishing but telling others what they can and can't do seems uncalled for.

Daniel.
RRoT is numberically retarded. Please, never touch it, along with Agile Opportunist, Reckless and Bloodclaw weapons...
Why not?

The point of the game is to have fun. And if the group decides that it just wants to do ridiculous damage, and the DM is fine, why the hell not?
Doing ridiculous damage is cool when it's in some balanced way. A feat like RRoT that not only breaks the math of the game, but forces you to worship a specific God?

That's not only breaking crunch, it's breaking fluff! No. Do not touch RRoT.
Its not so much that RRoT is broken (although it is); its that the other CD feats are weak compared to it and weak compared to other feats. CD feats need a revamp as far as I am concerned.

Edit:
Back on topic.

I liked the earlier suggestion:
I know its a defender, but a 1st level Dwarf Tempest Fighter with DWT and Urgrosh comes out of the hole really strong. After Dwarf boost: 18, 13, 14, 8, 12, 10 (gets you 28 hits at 1st for a nice even Surge of 7). Wisdom is low, but your talking 1-3 here. You can still get Rain of Blows at 4th with a retrain if you like.

Funny how I refer to all this broken stuff.
I loved it when my DM urged me to pick whatever build I liked, then repaint it to my hearts desire. It gave me a refreshing path to building my character. For the first time I had to think of what I wanted, not which had the higher DPR.
RRoT can be repainted to be a blessing of Pelor, Strike of Selune, Luck of Glittergold even. That'd be great to see. A gnome avanger (elf) that calls on glittergold's luck(RRoT) to make his katars(great axe) strike true.
I do agree that there is a stark difference between RRoT and other CD feats. There will be other CD feats that will be competitors to it.

The Avenger does good damage when resources are limited (heroic levels) and feels satisfying(roll 2d20).
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Doing ridiculous damage is cool when it's in some balanced way. A feat like RRoT that not only breaks the math of the game, but forces you to worship a specific God?

That's not only breaking crunch, it's breaking fluff! No. Do not touch RRoT.

Unless it does not fit the OP desires suggesting it is fine, taking it is even more fine. Whether or not it is discouraged from theoretical builds like Bloodclaw/reckless is for another thread.

Since OP can use it and wants to and is encouraged by his DM than there is no problem here except for you.

If you want High nova. Restructure the Master of Defense build for more damage. If you will hit level 4 try and grab RoB by then and you can RRoT + Enc and then follow that up with a RoB the following round.
The problem here is RRoT, not me. The feat will cause ridiculous amounts of damage and make the DM not enjoy his game as much.

Please. Do not touch it.

This forum reminds me of a friend I once had, that upon learning of Aura of Chaos + small Shuriken... *made a Crusader*. Just because this isn't 3.5 doesn't mean that things cannot be broken.

Oh! One last thing. There will never be another feat to compare to RRoT outside of Agile Opportunist. The feat. Is. Stupid.
You said your piece now if you wish to continue your tirade stop hijacking his thread and make a new one or post in your own thread about it.
Mhmm. You guys stop giving him game wrecking advice, and I'll shut up :P

Yeah. The post has been answered. At those levels, virtually every striker is playable. OP hasn't responded at all, so I figure he's got his answer.
In terms of damage output, RRoT pales in comparison to Kelemvor's Judgement, which can deal a truly horrific amount of undead-smashing damage in a wide blast range of 10. You only need about 3 critters in that cone at level 1 to make it a total of 3(d12+wis) which is a lot more than you're going to get from RRoT dropping from an Encounter Power--and note, this leaves the character in question with their other encounter powers still in play. RRoT is tied to whatever you use.

Thus, using RRoT and an at-will will net you, best case, 12+wis+1d12 at level one. Hitting a mere two undead will churn out 2(d12+wis) plus radiant bonus damage, which is usually Vulnerable 5, making this on an average character be about a 1d12+9 damage Holy Shotgun to anything undead within 5, 8, or 10 squares.

At level 30 RRoT on an at-will can do the max of that 2[w] plus another 3d12 or so of damage, and all modifiers, and Judgement will be doing 6d12+wisdom to every target in a blast 10. If you've only got 3 targets in that radius, that's a total of 18d12 right there, the same 'average' damage of the top-level Avenger daily, the highest of all damagers likely to use a RRoT in combat.

So overall, if your campaign is strictly against the living, you're better off with RRoT, but a lack of undead also punishes Divine classes by making several of their class features and PP's entirely useless. As an Avenger, RRoT simply gives me a channel divinity I can actually use against the living. Maybe your assertion is that the Channel Divinity powers should just be little gizmos like Cantrips, which do a little thing once an encounter but are mostly overlooked. But given how powerful the Cleric's Turn Undead and the Paladin's Divine Mettle are, or can be, RRoT and other CD powers should be at least as useful to them, since it not only replaces that usage but requires an added feat. Mettle is handy to a defender and it scales well with levels, and the cleric's 5d10 atomic bomb versus undead cannot be discounted. And those are what you get for free. If I can't get better than that for a feat, why ever spend the feat? And what special merit is RRoT to me, or any Avenger really, against the undead? It merely offers an alternative potent power against the living as to the undead.

You cannot both say that RRoT is overpowered and Judgement or even Turn Undead are fair, since those are very specific circumstances. Even as an Avenger, against the undead, Abjure Undead will be superior to a single target as an encounter than RRoT, and it won't consume multiple powers at once. Against a pack of Orcs, yes, Turn Undead and Kelemvor's Judgement are useless. But does extreme power get balanced by occasional uselessness? In that case I still say RRoT is truly not that obscene, though mighty, because it still requires you to hit. Anyone who is not an Avenger is not only somewhat likely to miss, but also relatively likely not have a High Crit weapon, or a power with too many [w] stacked on it. And for the Avenger, the one class it really stands out as an amazing power for, it simply isn't damage inconsistant with a Barbarian's maximum damage, and the normal channel divinity powers are similarly situational and not as potent as their Divine Counterparts.

You might want to complain about it, and that's your right, but if it costs a feat, doesn't stack with existing powers, and still requires me to hit, it limits the amount of times and the range of characters who will get more game-smashing potential out of it than similar powers (some automatic to the class class) in other common situations. This only becomes remarkable damage later in the campaign, and never becomes so much that any of the applicable classes cease to require teamwork. It may be better than most of the other CD's available, but they're worthless trash anyway, so you should be comparing it against the ones you automatically start with.
Urm, I'd rather a free crit than a standard action relatively okay attack. You're not looking at opportunity cost, at all.

Autocrits are overpowered. Note that a high level autocrit often gives you 1-3 free attacks, as well s 6dX crit dice, and et cetera.
Urm, I'd rather a free crit than a standard action relatively okay attack. You're not looking at opportunity cost, at all.

Autocrits are overpowered. Note that a high level autocrit often gives you 1-3 free attacks, as well s 6dX crit dice, and et cetera.

What standard action relatively okay attack? Turn Undead is a standard action excellent attack which has the capability of obliterating a swarm of undead. Even at high levels, a minion has 1 hitpoint, so against a horde you really only need to hit, and plus it scatters them. So anything that it hits will shamble away, and it's hard to discount the bucket of dice you'll be throwing when you get a chance to hit more than one thing with it.

What about Divine Mettle? Force a Save + Charisma, your main att, as a minor action? There's plenty of times where a save is handy, especially as I believe this would also apply to a Save versus Death, at +Charisma bonus, so there's nearly no chance you can flub that. That's a +4 that scales to a +8, you'd need to roll less than a 3 to fail that save.

How about the Invoker? His CD's are both very useful. Someone hits you, they take some damage and get shoved away--useful as an instant interrupt. And same as when someone dinks your ally, you gain a "Dear God" bonus to-hit on your next attack, basically making it for-sure that you'll be be able to drop an AoE nuke or a single-target dazzer on him. Free hits are pretty handy too, especially at no feat cost and no additional power required.

The opportunity cost is, indeed, a minor action. But it is still a minor action, not a free, and it requires you to burn another attack. If you want your RRoT to actually mean something, it's probably not going to be an At-Will. At the highest levels RRoT starts to have more sinister implications because of all the things that trigger on a crit, but that's hardly a good excuse. Stacking a bunch of effects together always creates crazy outcomes. That requires a deliberate build towards specific situations and weapons. How many clerics or paladins are going to be using a greataxe? It will probably, rightly, be erratad to "does maximum damage, as per a crit, but does not not count as a critical hit for the purposes of magical effects," which is how I read it at the moment and how I play with it.

So I'm still calling ******** on this. Dumping feats into an encounter power that must be used on the tail of something else, and only begins to show what it's really capable of later on with dubious weapon combinations, a permissive DM, and the kind of powers that make it worth using on? Seems like an expensive way to get lucky once a battle. You're still only denting the target. Even if you're level 30 and hitting a target nearly 10 levels lower than you, it would be remarkable if you actually killed it in a single hit with your biggest Daily attack as the Divine Striker. The power is dramatic, but outside of player versus player Arena matches, it's not going to turn the tide of war. If you're saving RRoT to drop on the Big Bad once all the rest are dead, the Sorcs and Rangers are still going to do more than you. And if these had been undead, you'd have been better off using one of your other powers.
I would go with a Sorcerer. The new storm builds are a lot of fun and it should be a different play style to try. I recently changed to a chaos sorcerer and am having a great time with the random effects
Urm, I'd rather a free crit than a standard action relatively okay attack. You're not looking at opportunity cost, at all.

Autocrits are overpowered. Note that a high level autocrit often gives you 1-3 free attacks, as well s 6dX crit dice, and et cetera.

Now it sounds like you are DEFENDING the CD feat you supposedly hate so much.

Make up your mind, maybe?
All the other powers are good. This is incredible. Ridiculous, even.
Now it sounds like you are DEFENDING the CD feat you supposedly hate so much.

Make up your mind, maybe?

Defending from a "this feat is so good it's a no-brainer" point of view.

Which, by the by, it is.

I never said the feat was weak, and arguing that it is too strong is in fact what I have been doing this whole time. My mind is made up.
Trying to learn what? The most powerful striker between levels 1-3? That's been decided already. Most of them.
Awesome. Avenger with RRoT for me, then. Thanks for the unanimous advice everybody!
You are then not very good at optimization. Choosing when to crit is flat out stupid.

All the other powers are good. This is incredible. Ridiculous, even.

I DM for an Avenger of Tempus who uses RRoT every encounter. You know what? It's not that bad. The Avenger tends to have a very hard time getting a good Nova off anyway, the RRoT actually helps keep him not be left completely behind by some of the other strikers. Even with it, the Ranger easily out damages the Avenger.

I'd stop worrying about it, unless he pulls a Punisher of the Gods trick, it's really not that bad and any good DM won't be discouraged by it.
As the poster above me on the other page said, considering who this is a bonus for, it's not dangerous. An Avenger with Righteous Rage is the build that gets the most for it, and they're hardly damage machines anyway, especially compared to rangers or rogues or anyone else. You can't balance a power unless you look at what the competition is. All in all, Armor Specialization is probably more damaging overall to the health of a campaign than one small pile of damage extra per encounter. Forcing the DM to upgrade the critters just to hit the PC's is a more damaging feat than this, especially at levels 1-3.

Choosing when to crit is only stupid if you think you're getting much from it. The only class that even gets any significant advantage from using it is the Avenger, and they don't have a battery of high [w] abilities to expend it on. Deep into the Avenger's progression their powers are 1-2[w] damage, with dailies being 2-3[w] until way up until level 19 Dailies hit, where one of the options is a 5[w] daily. Your first 4[w] encounter power is at 23. Barbarians get 4[w] encounter powers as early as level 17, and this isn't even counting the damage bonus from rage. Rage bonus and +8 damage if an opponent moves away from me are not equal.

So in terms of raw damage output, the RRoT is only finding a cozy home in the arms of one or two dailies until nearly into Epic. Until then the highest you're able to give it to, as an Avenger, is a Executioner's Axe powering Aspect of Might or similar. All told you'd get 36+wis+2d[12] and whatever magical hoodoo your DM has allowed you to pull off. At that point in the game you're fighting things where the even the light controllers have 150+ hitpoints, and you're whining about this massively overpowering feat that lets you bring it down to bloodied at at best? You wouldn't even be able to drop an Ogre Skirmisher, a level 8, with your level 18 RRoT and maximum power daily.

Sure, you've done quite a bit of damage, but if you as a DM cannot handle the fact that something got critted, then there's an issue. And the issue is, while RRoT gives you a 50% chance of one crit per battle, there's always a chance with 5 players that someone will crit once, or each person will crit once, or maybe get lucky and get multiple crits. The game cannot and should not hinge on luck, even mathmatically calculated luck, and RRoT doesn't provide enough power to kill even a weak enemy. Throw one extra half-level mook into the battle and you've already overcompensated.
All in all, Armor Specialization is probably more damaging overall to the health of a campaign than one small pile of damage extra per encounter. Forcing the DM to upgrade the critters just to hit the PC's is a more damaging feat than this, especially at levels 1-3.

At risk of derailing the derailed thread... what?
Great suggestions guys. I especially liked the Bugbear Rogue.
Summary

Eladrin tempest with +1 bloodclaw urgosh with Eladrin Soldier
-Rain of Blows, Dual Strike(d12/d8), +2 damage from Soldier, +2 tempest is solid
-Villain's menace loves Dual strike
-Battle cleric + Righteous brand + Dual strike = :D
-Other good races {1/2 orc (3[w] encounter power), elf (better RoB), dwarf (classic urgosh)}
-18.35 DPR (bloodclaw)


Dwarf Ranger with War axes with Dwarven Weapon Training
-Stats aren't in the best spot but 2xd12 + 2x2(dwarven training)... + HQ = :D
-Minor Second wind + toughness(ranger free) + Cloak of the walking wounded = Durable
-Battle cleric + Righteous brand + twin strike = :D
-Gets whirlwind @1st, 2 levels earlier than fighter
-18 DPR

Bugbear Brutal Scoundrel Rogue with Mage's large double sword and backstabber @ 1st
-With CA d10 + 1(magic) + 5(str) + 5(dex) + 2d8 = ouchie
-+3 (prof) +2(CA) +5(dex) + 1(magic) =+11 vs 13 ref = 90% hit rate
-@2nd lvl take weapon expertise and only miss on a 1
-20 DPR with CA Nuff said

Elf avenger of Tempus
-roll 2d20, take better = accurate
-Elven accuracy lets you try a 2d20 roll again
-Nerf target RRoT with vicious great axe = ouchie
-RRoT: 2*12+5(static) + 2d12(high crit + vicious) + 1d6(flame bracers) ~ 45 damage/encounter
-11.83 DPR

Halfling/dragonborn sorcerer
-Of the few who use Bracers of mighty striking(Reaper's Touch) / Bracers of perfect shot
-add secondary stat to all arcane damage rolls, good for area effects
-Chaos: unblockable aura damage(like Rain of Steel) is precious
-Great versatility at range and melee
-6d6 daily 1
-Imp. Expertise + draconic spellcaster stack
-1d8 + 5(cha) + 5(str) + 1(magic) + 1(staff of ruin) + 2(bracers) + push @ +7 vs 13 ref = 75% to hit
= 11.625 DPR

Dwarf Warlock (hexhammer) with +1 bloodclaw Mordenkrad
-Dwarven weapon training +2 melee attacks and prof with all axes, hammers(Mordenkrad)
-Bracers of mighty strikeing +2 damage to your 'Melee basic attack'(Eldritch strike)
-Eldritch strike has slide 1 for good control
-Infernolock you swim in a haze of temporary hit points, so bloodclaw isn't that bad.
-Damage 2d6 (brutal 1) + 1d6 + 4(cha/con) + 2(dwarven) + 1(magic) + 3(bloodclaw) + 2(bracers) @ 65% to hit
= 15.275 DPR

Goliath Rageblood Barbarian with 20 Str
-3[w] encounter power @ 1st
-If you drop a guy charge another 1/encounter
-{1/2 orc to upgrade to 4[w] encounter power, Goliath, Minotaur, Dragonborn}
-+1 Vanguard (level 3 item) Property: +1d8 on all charges
-Howling Strike: 2d6(weapon) + 1d6 + 5(str) + 1(magic) + 1d8(vanguard) @ +8 vs AC = 75% to hit
= 15.75 DPR


Are there any additions?
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
At risk of derailing the derailed thread... what?

Did I get the names of feat wrong? I was mentioning the stuff that gives you bonuses to your AC. My point was that things like updraging your AC to absurd levels to make yourself virtually unhittable cause a greater problem for a DM than having one character do a relatively minor bit more damage.

As an Avenger, for example, getting Hide Specialization can end you up with some pretty insane AC's. As a DM, you would be much better off allowing RRoT and accepting that half of the time he'll do a crit than forcing that player down the path of shame and villianry that is the 52 AC at level 30.

I wasn't being completely serious, but static stacking bonuses to armor are closer to "ruining the DM's game" than a bit of extra randomly occuring damage.
This thread's purpose is to brainstorm and compare strikers in levels 1-3 and has absolutly and in all regards nothing to do with paragon items, feats, powers, and paths. Please discontinue debating about RRoT. There's a discussion about it elsewhere.
No more talk about Armor specialization as it is not related to the topic at hand.

If you can expound on current candidates or have one to propose please do so and contribute to this thread's purpose.

What would be a good feat for a sorcerer at 1, other than leather prof (bland)?
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
What would be a good feat for a sorcerer at 1, other than leather prof (bland)?

Implement Expertise would be my first choice.
Imp exp. Especially if you are doing Dragonfrost.

First 4 feats being Draconic Spellcasting, Imp Exp, Reapers Strike, Weapon focus That gets you through 6
Defending from a "this feat is so good it's a no-brainer" point of view.

Which, by the by, it is.

I never said the feat was weak, and arguing that it is too strong is in fact what I have been doing this whole time. My mind is made up.

It could be that RRoT is right at the power level it should be and other things are over powered. Infact I read somewhere that RRoT was figured into the avenger's creation and that they assumed that the avengers got a crit an encounter and a extra crit per every attack. They kept a tight lid on thier powers too because OoE is so over the top.

Best early striker I would say is an elf or half orc tempest fighter you get W powers like a striker and dual strike + Weapon focus + tempest damage > barbarian damage (2d8 or 2d10 + 6 is better than 1d12 + 1d6 + 5)

At third you get the awsome rain of blows which makes your nova great.
please explain how you are doing 2d10 damage. The 1/2 orc furious assault is an encounter power, so a comparison of your furious(encounter) + at-will to tempest dual strike is a little skewed.
A better comparison would be why 1/2 orc is better
1/2 orc +2 str vs eladrin/dwarf +0 str
means +1 attack, +1 damage vs +2 damage
+[w] vs. teleport+free skill vs. minor second wind

This is not a fair comparison
2d10 + 6 (furious encounter attack) vs. 1d12 + 1d8 + 6 (dual strike at-will)
By comparing your furious 2d10 to our at-will you imply that you can do this as often as we do our at-will, which is not the case.


If I misunderstood you please correct me.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
please explain how you are doing 2d10 damage. The 1/2 orc furious assault is an encounter power, so a comparison of your furious(encounter) + at-will to tempest dual strike is a little skewed.
A better comparison would be why 1/2 orc is better
1/2 orc +2 str vs eladrin/dwarf +0 str
means +1 attack, +1 damage vs +2 damage
+[w] vs. teleport+free skill vs. minor second wind

This is not a fair comparison
2d10 + 6 (furious encounter attack) vs. 1d12 + 1d8 + 6 (dual strike at-will)
By comparing your furious 2d10 to our at-will you imply that you can do this as often as we do our at-will, which is not the case.


If I misunderstood you please correct me.

You arent even trying at all.

Dual strike

1d10 (double ax) +2 (tempest feature) +2 (dwarven racial prof) + 1d10+ same mods

So really it could be 2d10 +6 at will or 2d10+8. Furious just gives your 2W encounters another W. Which makes it equivilant to avalanch strike.

In essence making you have a 3W encounter. Or you can be an elf for better movement and making rain of blows better.

My case is a double ax with dual strike which has better damage than a barabarians at will. Because applying mods twice > not applying mods twice.
I think I understand you right in that 1/2 orc makes a good striker because he turns a 2[w] encounter power into a 3[w] encounter power.
Elf because it helps you get all 4 attacks of RoB.

I agree with you that multi-attack powers > single attack powers in the long run.
I'll add these races under fighter as viable candidates
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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