Wild Defender

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Hey, guys, I have another build for you. This guy is sticky as all the hells, and has solid defense. Big shout-out to Lordofleapin's Warden Handbook, which made the research for this a hell of a lot easier, and to GeorgeFHarris, who finally motivated me to get off my lazy arse and actually stat this out (this one's for you, buddy ):

Warden/Pit Fighter/Demigod



Wild Defender, L1

Race: Longtooth Shifter
Class: Warden
Guardian Might: Wildblood

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments:
Str 18 (+4)
Con 13 (+1)
Dex 14 (+2)
Int 10 (+0)
Wis 16 (+3)
Cha 8 (-1)

HP: 35; Bloodied: 17; Surges: 10 (8 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 18/15/14/14
Initiative: +2; Speed: 6

Weight of Earth: 1 attack, +7 vs. AC
Hit: 1d8+4 damage
Crit: 12 damage

DPR: (0.60)*(8.5) + (0.05)*(12) = 5.70 DPR

At-will Powers: thorn strike, weight of earth
Encounter Powers: longtooth shifting, wildblood frenzy
Daily Powers: form of winter's herald

Skills: Athletics (+8), Endurance (+5), Nature (+8), Perception (+8)
Feats: Toughness

Gear: longsword, heavy shield, 4 javelins, hide armor, standard adventurer's kit, 10 gp


Levels 2-10

L2. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Sudden Roots, new utility power: nature's abundance

L3. +7 HP, new encounter power: burst of earth's fury

L4. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Str (19), +1 Wis (17), new feat: Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)

L5. +7 HP, new daily power: winter's grip

L6. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Weapon Expertise (heavy blades), new utility power: bear's endurance

L7. +7 HP, new encounter power: stalker's positioning

L8. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Str (20), +1 Wis (18), new feat: Battle Awareness (Heal)

L9. +7 HP, new daily power: form of the oak sentinel

L10. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new daily power: rain of steel (replaces winter's grip), new feat: Adept Power (rain of steel), new utility power: shield of stone


Wild Defender, L11

Race: Longtooth Shifter
Class: Warden
Guardian Might: Wildblood
Multiclass: Fighter
Paragon Path: Pit Fighter

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments:
Str 21 (+5)
Con 14 (+2)
Dex 15 (+2)
Int 11 (+0)
Wis 19 (+4)
Cha 9 (-1)

HP: 111; Bloodied: 55; Surges: 11 (27 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 27/24/21/22
Initiative: +8; Speed: 6

Weight of Earth: 1 attack, +16 vs. AC
Hit: 1d10+9 damage
Crit: 2d6+19 damage

DPR: (0.55)*(14.5) + (0.05)*(26) = 9.28 DPR

At-will Powers: thorn strike, weight of earth
Encounter Powers: all bets are off, burst of earth's fury, longtooth shifting, stalker's positioning, wildblood frenzy
Daily Powers: form of the oak sentinel, form of winter's herald, rain of steel
Utility Powers: bear's endurance, nature's abundance, shield of stone

Skills: Athletics (+14), Endurance (+13), Heal (+14), Nature (+14), Perception (+14)
Feats: Adept Power (rain of steel), Battle Awareness (Heal), Heavy Blade Opportunity, Sudden Roots, Toughness, Weapon Expertise (heavy blades), Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)

Gear:
+2 frost bastard sword
+2 javelin
+2 lifeblood hide armor
+2 cloak of resistance
Belt of vim +1
Boots of eagerness
Casque of tactics +1
Iron armbands of power +2
Salve of power (2)
Standard adventurer's kit

Changes from L10:
+13 HP, +1 Str (21), +1 Con (14), +1 Dex (15), +1 Int (11), +1 Wis (19), +1 Cha (9), new encounter power: all bets are off, new feat: Heavy Blade Opportunity, new paragon path: Pit Fighter


Levels 12-20

L12. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Lasting Frost, new utility power: deadly payback

L13. +7 HP, new encounter power: creeper's grasp (replaces stalker's positioning)

L14. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Str (22), +1 Wis (20), new feat: Wintertouched

L15. +7 HP, new daily power: form of the rowan sentinel (replaces form of the oak sentinel)

L16. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Wildblood Speed, new utility power: primal leap

L17. +7 HP, new encounter power: call forth the harvest (replaces burst of earth's fury)

L18. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Str (23), +1 Wis (21), new feat: Weapon Focus (heavy blades)

L19. +7 HP

L20. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Paragon Defenses, new daily power: lion of battle


Wild Defender, L21

Race: Longtooth Shifter
Class: Warden
Guardian Might: Wildblood
Multiclass: Fighter
Paragon Path: Pit Fighter
Epic Destiny: Demigod

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments:
Str 26 (+8)
Con 15 (+2)
Dex 18 (+4)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 22 (+6)
Cha 10 (+0)

HP: 187; Bloodied: 93; Surges: 11 (54 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 37/35/32/33
Initiative: +15; Speed: 6

Weight of Earth: 1 attack, +29 vs. AC with CA
Hit: 2d10+30 damage, reroll all 1's
Crit: 4d6+50 damage, reroll all 1's

DPR: (0.65)*(42) + (0.10)*(66) = 33.90 DPR

At-will Powers: thorn strike, weight of earth
Encounter Powers: all bets are off, call forth the harvest, creeper's grasp, longtooth shifting, wildblood frenzy
Daily Powers: form of the rowan sentinel, form of winter's herald, lion of battle, rain of steel
Utility Powers: bear's endurance, deadly payback, nature's abundance, primal leap, shield of stone

Skills: Athletics (+22), Endurance (+20), Heal (+21), Nature (+21), Perception (+21)
Feats: Adept Power (rain of steel), Battle Awareness (Heal), Heavy Blade Mastery, Heavy Blade Opportunity, Lasting Frost, Robust Defenses, Sudden Roots, Toughness, Weapon Expertise (heavy blades), Weapon Focus (heavy blades), Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Wildblood Speed, Wintertouched

Gear:
+4 frost bastard sword
+4 javelin
+4 lifeblood darkhide armor
+4 torc of power preservation
Belt of mountain endurance
Boots of eagerness
Casque of tactics +2
Gauntlets of destruction
Iron armbands of power +4
Ring of protection
Salve of power (2)
Standard adventurer's kit

Changes from L20:
+13 HP, +3 Str (26), +1 Con (15), +3 Dex (18), +1 Int (12), +1 Wis (22), +1 Cha (10), new epic destiny: Demigod, new feats: Heavy Blade Mastery, Robust Defenses (replaces Paragon Defenses)


Levels 22-29

L22. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Primal Resurgence, new utility power: panacea

L23. +7 HP, new encounter power: startling savagery (replaces wildblood frenzy)

L24. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Str (27), +1 Wis (23), new feat: Enduring Font

L25. +7 HP

L26. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Armor Specialization (hide), new utility power: divine regeneration

L27. +7 HP, new encounter power: weight of the mountain (replaces call forth the harvest)

L28. +7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Str (28), +1 Wis (24), new feat: Enhanced Font of Life

L29. +7 HP, new daily power: form of the starmetal warrior (replaces form of the rowan sentinel)


Wild Defender, L30

Race: Longtooth Shifter
Class: Warden
Guardian Might: Wildblood
Multiclass: Fighter
Paragon Path: Pit Fighter
Epic Destiny: Demigod

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments:
Str 28 (+9)
Con 15 (+2)
Dex 18 (+4)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 24 (+7)
Cha 10 (+0)

HP: 250; Bloodied: 125; Surges: 11 (71 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 47/43/39/43
Initiative: +24; Speed: 6

Weight of Earth: 1 attack, +38 vs. AC with CA
Hit: 2d10+36 damage, reroll all 1's
Crit: 6d6+56 damage, reroll all 1's

DPR: (0.65)*(48) + (0.10)*(80) = 39.20 DPR

At-will Powers: thorn strike, weight of earth
Encounter Powers: all bets are off, creeper's grasp, longtooth shifting, startling savagery, weight of the mountain
Daily Powers: form of the starmetal warrior, form of winter's herald, lion of battle, rain of steel
Utility Powers: bear's endurance, deadly payback, divine regeneration, nature's abundance, panacea, primal leap, shield of stone

Skills: Athletics (+29), Endurance (+28), Heal (+27), Nature (+27), Perception (+27)
Feats: Adept Power (rain of steel), Armor Specialization (hide), Battle Awareness (Heal), Beasthide Shifting, Enduring Font, Enhanced Font of Life, Heavy Blade Mastery, Heavy Blade Opportunity, Lasting Frost, Robust Defenses, Sudden Roots, Toughness, Weapon Expertise (heavy blades), Weapon Focus (heavy blades), Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Wildblood Speed, Wintertouched

Gear:
+6 frost bastard sword
+6 javelin
+6 lifeblood elderhide armor
+6 torc of power preservation
Belt of mountain endurance
Boots of eagerness
Eye of awareness
Gauntlets of destruction
Iron armbands of power +6
Nullifying ring
Salve of power (2)
Shadow band
Standard adventurer's kit

Changes from L29:
+7 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: Beasthide Shifting


[b][u]Build Goal and Tactics:[/b][/u]



The goal for this build is simple: be as sticky as possible, but still be able to handle the consequences of having a bunch of enemies in his grill. To that end, this build packs some solid damage along with good defense and a truckload of HP, and sports a strategy to make sure no enemy he is adjacent to can ever get away from him. The build is also nice and accurate, thanks to the Wintertouched/Lasting Frost combo. If there is any class that can stand up to the Fighter in the stickiness department, it's the Warden, and this build is proof that at the very least he gets close.

The tactics for this build are fairly straightforward: walk straight up to his targets, then mark them all using Nature's Wrath. Form of Winter's Herald (which you should have going every time you see a large concentration of enemies) basically disallows shifting, and attempting to move away will earn the opponent an opportunity attack that will not only slow him because of Sudden Roots, but it will also pull him back adjacent to the Warden (Heavy Blade Opportunity into Thorn Strike, think Scorpion from Mortal Kombat - GET OVER HERE! :D). The beauty of this combo is that it works on any number of adjacent enemies, allowing you to keep up to 8 enemies completely locked down, all at once. To boot, you have Rain of Steel active, which means that you're piling on the auto-damage as well. After this, hack away, but it would behoove you to have a nearby Striker ally (preferably another Frost user) to help you finish the opposition off quickly (and thus make sure that you don't get too roughed up). :D

Questions/thoughts/comments are welcome.

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Have you considered Son of Mercy as a paragon path? They get their +Wis bonus right at 11th level (but only to target of law breaker's doom). Their powers are also more "sticky" and the level 16 feature will hand you a fair number of temp. HP a few times an encounter. Wardens automatically qualify as defenders so that frees you up to take a different multiclass option if there is anything particularly juicy.
That's an option, but the Lawbreaker's Doom thing is a MAJOR turn-off, since this build is made to contain multiple foes at once. I had considered it, and discarded it because of that limitation for my purposes. That Paragon Path is tailor-made for the Strength-based Paladin, though.

As far as juicy MC goes, the Fighter MC feat alone justifies it as a choice, because it accounts for the one situation a Warden cannot naturally punish; shifting.


Busy day on the forums today, but I don't want this guy to go down without some comments.

Specifically, the Paragon Path is WIDE OPEN (Pit Fighter doesn't get silly unless you're dedicated to nova bursts, something that Defenders aren't all that suited to); if you can come up with a PP or a PMC that will match the "black hole defender" nature of this character better, by all means fire away.


Busy day on the forums today, but I don't want this guy to go down without some comments.

Specifically, the Paragon Path is WIDE OPEN (Pit Fighter doesn't get silly unless you're dedicated to nova bursts, something that Defenders aren't all that suited to); if you can come up with a PP or a PMC that will match the "black hole defender" nature of this character better, by all means fire away.

I may be wrong about this, but since the AoO happens before the movement your pull won´t work(because your target is still adjacent).
The enemy will going shift away as a double-move.


But anyway the build is awesome.

Looking for your build, I was thinking in a similar build, but using Cleric multiclass(For sacrificial healing as permanent encounter(sawp) - demigod, and Spirit of Health as utility swap).

The main concern of this build, and the way it manage to keep foes close, is to keep alive.
I may be wrong about this, but since the AoO happens before the movement your pull won´t work(because your target is still adjacent).
The enemy will going shift away as a double-move.

What LDB is counting on is this:

Sudden Roots + Heavy Blade Opportunity + Thorn Strike + Form of Winter's Herald

Sudden Roots = Slow Opponent on hit
HBO + Thorn Strike = Slide them 1 away from your friends on hit.
Form of Winter's Herald (Daily) = Difficult Terrain

So even though the AoO happens before movement, it makes the movement very hard to do.

The biggest problem that I see, is if FAQ clarifications, the difficult terrain will affect the slide. So we need to figure out a way to slide an enemy 2.

Get a Cloak of Distortion +6, and you make it hard for the enemie's ranged attackers to do anything to you.

GH
Fun stuff. I'll look at PP/MC tonight and give feedback if my future post is not already identified by some other builder.
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What LDB is counting on is this:

Sudden Roots + Heavy Blade Opportunity + Thorn Strike + Form of Winter's Herald

Sudden Roots = Slow Opponent on hit
HBO + Thorn Strike = Slide them 1 away from your friends on hit.
Form of Winter's Herald (Daily) = Difficult Terrain

So even though the AoO happens before movement, it makes the movement very hard to do.

The biggest problem that I see, is if FAQ clarifications, the difficult terrain will affect the slide. So we need to figure out a way to slide an enemy 2.

Get a Cloak of Distortion +6, and you make it hard for the enemie's ranged attackers to do anything to you.

GH

I see,

But as i said before, i believe that the thorn strike wont work as mentioned, because the AoO happens before the movement.
It ll get slowed, and so, able to move 2 squares.
Or it can double shift, to move 1 square.
Either way the pull effect won´t work, because when you AoO to pull the target, it is still adjacent to the warden.

After the movement, as a standard action on the warden´s turn, the target can be pulled back adjacent to the warden... but this way only work against 1 target. Other targets are going to be able flee.


(BTW, forced movement is not hindered by dif terrain)
Oh, I know that, but pull 1 when the enemy is already adjacent to the target is basically slide 1 away from my squishies, which usually means they're in a worse position than before. Not quite as cinematic, but still very effective.
That's an option, but the Lawbreaker's Doom thing is a MAJOR turn-off, since this build is made to contain multiple foes at once. I had considered it, and discarded it because of that limitation for my purposes. That Paragon Path is tailor-made for the Strength-based Paladin, though.

As far as I can tell, Lawbreaker's Doom doesn't decrease your ability to multitarget; rather, it increases your ability to deal burst damage (and burst control) while still holding multitarget aggro using your regular powers. Am I reading it wrong, or do you prefer the general +wis to the more conditional bonus you would get from LBD?
It's the same bonus as Dirty Fighting, but I can only apply the doom to one target at a time. That reduces the build's overall effectiveness, and the difference between the Son of Mercy and the Pit Fighter (slow) is not really much of a loss on a Warden that slows on At-Wills, Encounters, Dailies, and OA's already.
I would really think for an optimization sake that is based around controlling a group of baddies that you would really re-think SoM.

I agree with you that only having one target to deal +WIS damage to is not as good as dealing it to ALL of your targets but unlike a fighter you are not hitting with an over abundance of AoE spells all the time. More often then not you are going to be focusing on just one baddie at a time (save for instances where you are taking AoO but more often then not your DM will be targeting you or SHOULD be targeting you if you are making yourself just as vulnerable as the rest of your group when targets are marked with the -2 to hit) and the slow from the SoM mark will allow you to use other At-Wills such as the one that gives you back THP instead of slowing all the time (or a cherry picked At-will like dual strike if you are a half-elf like me). You also get to start adding your +WIS at level 11 as opposed to 16 and that really adds up after 5 levels of adventuring.

Even more reason not to be a pit fighter if you are looking more towards the idea of "everyone dogpile on me and don't try to get away" is lion of battle. Each time you use that ability you are pushing away all of those targets that you worked so hard to entangle into your web...now if you want to talk about a power that really punishes those around you it would be Blood Oath Fulfilled. Take for example this situation...

-Start of your turn and you are just out of position because targets around you moved to attack your teammate with a shift-charge (can't ALWAYS have winter's herald up you know)
-You free action mark all of the targets that are still around you.
-Move action into position around all the targets that jumped off you during the last round, try to get in the center of them as much as possible.
-Minor action Red death to hit them all with LBD (no roll).
-Standard action BOF to shift one sq (if you are still out of position and didn't want to draw a whole mess of AoO) and then hit everyone for 3[W]+str+wis and knock them prone until save ends...if you are worried about not hitting don't worry you have +wis to hit them as well. Blow an AP before the attack if you want to immobilize them too just for fun.

Now that is a way to get the attention of a crowd.

With pit fighter i see the following cons:
- +wis dam comes at 16 instead of 11 (although it does target all baddies)
- +1 AC is bad if you are trying to present yourself as more of an appealing target after marking (some might argue against me here)
- Lion of Battle pushes targets AWAY from you instead of keeping them right where you want them.
- Deadly payback is great against the BBEG but that is about it...targets die too fast as it is sometimes.
- All bets are off is "meh" to me.

With SoM you get:
- +wis at 11 and slowing on one target.
- immobile when AP attacking (although Pit fighter does get the extra damage, better if you are nova)
- gobs of THP when you kill your marked target
- an encounter power that makes your marked target not want to attack anyone but you and pays the price if they do.
- the awesome combo of BOF and red death...hell red death is an encounter so use it with some of the aoe encounter powers you have to be just as effective at area damage as the pit fighter if that is your biggest concern.

Let me know what you think, I really liked all of your other guides and builds I just think this one is off with the idea that pit is better then SoM.
The goal for this build is simple: be as sticky as possible, but still be able to handle the consequences of having a bunch of enemies in his grill. To that end, this build packs some solid damage along with good defense and a truckload of HP, and sports a strategy to make sure no enemy he is adjacent to can ever get away from him. The build is also nice and accurate, thanks to the Wintertouched/Lasting Frost combo. If there is any class that can stand up to the Fighter in the stickiness department, it's the Warden, and this build is proof that at the very least he gets close.

I like the build (obviously, see my inescapable fisherman for the battlerager knockdown+slow version of this ). However, i see a problem if you just slow the enemy, without also knocking him down:

A) Someone moves away. You get an OA (before move is resolved), slow him, but cannot pull him back (since he is still adjacent on the OA). So he can still move one square and is no longer adjacent to you.

B) Someone runs away. You get an OA, cannot pull (still adjacent). So he can still move 2 + run 2 -> he is up to 3 squares away now (but with a hefty penalty).
Hello friend,
I feel a bit embarassing admitting this, but I've never been one to include much thought to perticular magic items in my build optimization. Its just rare I'm in a campaign that is that... generous... (as to give everyone everything they might want from any book) and alot of my formative memories of 3ed were of colosium battles where a character was more items then man, and I haven't really been interested in continuing that.

Anyhow maybe you can credit that to my ignorance here, but I'm really not sure why your going with HBO. Isn't it somewhat useless for a slow/pull at-will warden without a reach weapon or some means of increasing reach to be oppertunity attacking using an at will [the pull doesnt work unless you've got reach OAs (unless you can pull someone thats adjacent into annother adjacent, but I've never heard that before) and theres a feat without prerequisites that gives your OAs slow at heroic]
Just curious. I know this is getting a little discussion here but it always seemed sort of obvious that doesnt work...
I see sort of what you're saying if the pull were somehow to stack after the movement was completed but that just doesn't seem legal.

I like this build except for that little confusion. I had completely neglected that winters herald was not only everything a warden ever wanted but also cold damage! What fun!

I'd be interested in what else you had to say about wardens.
Oh, I know that, but pull 1 when the enemy is already adjacent to the target is basically slide 1 away from my squishies, which usually means they're in a worse position than before. Not quite as cinematic, but still very effective.

Pull: When you pull a creature, each square you move it must bring it nearer to you.

while you can chose which one is nearest, I can't see how adjacent square can be nearer then another adjacent square. of course, I could be wrong.
Hmm... some solid questions here. I'll retool the build to see what I can do. I was thinking that pulling 1 in the opposite direction the target would attempt to escape from would be sufficient, and that since the maximum amount of squares he can move away is 2 (thanks to the slowing and the Form), but it seems this is not the case.

What I'm thinking of is heeding the advice given to me here and switch to Son of Mercy, to focus more on single-target control.
I was trying to do more or less the same thing you've done here. I poster two threads to no responses from the community asking for advise to help make the build better (since I'm not an expert optimizer, or an optimizer period) but I'd really like my warden to be a pain in the ass to enemies. If you could help me I'd appreciate it.

Warden
A couple of more things I have noticed while playing my warden in my melee heavy adventuring group...

- Depending on your group make-up you might want to switch out winter's grip (lvl 5 daily) for another power. The power of winter's grip can not be denied (no fuss auto damage is great) but your melee group mates who aren't sitting comfortably in Winter's herald with that resist 5 cold are not going to be your friends for much longer. In my experience for every good thing winter's grip did for me (clearing a mess of minions, slowing a chunk of targets so that I could get into position and get difficult terrain around them, ect) I would often impede my party doing as much as 15-20 (!!!) damage a round to my allies if I kept the zone sustained...some how this seemed to be counter productive to my goal as a defender ;) As a switch for winter's grip I picked Form of the Relentless Panther (not liking any of the other lvl 5 daily powers). A great thing about this power is just the +2 bonus to reflex which happens to be the ubiquitous defender downfall. That alone is great but the icing on the cake is +1 atk to targets marked by you (of which there will be many) and shifting 2 sq instead of 1 on a move (did i just hear shifting in difficult terrain?). All of these benefits plus another form to pop for an encounter at low level before amassing the salves of power far out weighs what I was getting from winter's grip. I would pop winter's herald when I had to deal with a lot of baddies and Panther when I was forced to deal with difficult terrain or baddies that target reflex a lot.

- While I think that after paragon and getting wildblood speed (one of the key reasons for making a wildblood warden IMHO) non reach weapons are fine because you can wildblood speed shift to punish a baddie that was marked by you with warden's fury (making the DM's decision making process even harder) but until then I would really suggest a reach weapon for lvls 1-10 or until you get wildblood speed. A reach weapon still allows you to punish those enemies that shift-attack (remember this is heroic tier you still don't have perm-winter's herald) with your warden's fury. This is paramount as it allows you to still punish baddies against a cunning DM. A defender who gives a -2 to hit to a lot of baddies is good, one that can actually punish them for it is even better...wardens don't have the automatic punishment that a lot of the other defenders have we need to have reach to really apply ours. My main reason for going wildblood was so that I wouldn't have to be forced into reach weapons all my life and could use 1handers if I wanted to after paragon. ES warden run into a little more of a snag but they can always be Goliaths and take the racial paragon path or utilize more of the forms that give +1 reach. Please consider training in a greatspear for the first 10 levels and then after that go for whatever you want, the AC decrease will hurt a little but remember for true defender optimization you want to make sure that you are never over 2 AC higher then your lowest vulnerable target.

- As far as Epic Destiny goes Demigod (or punisher of the gods but that is totally cheese) is still on top for many classes and warden is no different, from a pure optimization standpoint it is probably the best pick. If you wanted to add a little more flavor to your character (not really the place for this I know ;P) you can always try out Mythic Sovereign or Eternal Warrior. I have been tossing both of these EDs around in my head trying to fit them into my current character as demigod just doesn't seem to fit, so its an idea seeing as you are already MCed into warrior.

That is all for now, look forward to your revised warden!
- While I think that after paragon and getting wildblood speed (one of the key reasons for making a wildblood warden IMHO) non reach weapons are fine because you can wildblood speed shift to punish a baddie that was marked by you with warden's fury (making the DM's decision making process even harder) but until then I would really suggest a reach weapon for lvls 1-10 or until you get wildblood speed. A reach weapon still allows you to punish those enemies that shift-attack (remember this is heroic tier you still don't have perm-winter's herald) with your warden's fury. This is paramount as it allows you to still punish baddies against a cunning DM. A defender who gives a -2 to hit to a lot of baddies is good, one that can actually punish them for it is even better...wardens don't have the automatic punishment that a lot of the other defenders have we need to have reach to really apply ours. My main reason for going wildblood was so that I wouldn't have to be forced into reach weapons all my life and could use 1handers if I wanted to after paragon. ES warden run into a little more of a snag but they can always be Goliaths and take the racial paragon path or utilize more of the forms that give +1 reach. Please consider training in a greatspear for the first 10 levels and then after that go for whatever you want, the AC decrease will hurt a little but remember for true defender optimization you want to make sure that you are never over 2 AC higher then your lowest vulnerable target.

How does a reach weapon help you get an AoO at range 2, unless you have Threatening Reach?

Hmm... some solid questions here. I'll retool the build to see what I can do. I was thinking that pulling 1 in the opposite direction the target would attempt to escape from would be sufficient, and that since the maximum amount of squares he can move away is 2 (thanks to the slowing and the Form), but it seems this is not the case.

Look at this weapon:

Controlling Weapon Level 8+
Weapon: Polearm
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 damage per plus
Property: When you pull or push a target with this weapon, increase the effect by 1 square.
Power (Encounter): Free Action. Use this power when you would pull or push a target with this weapon. You slide the target the same distance instead.


This might make a Polearm more enticing.

GH
How does a reach weapon help you get an AoO at range 2, unless you have Threatening Reach?

The reach weapons are not for AoOs they are for making sure that you can still hit with warden's fury if a target shifts away from you and then makes an attack on an ally.
My thoughts:

1. I like the pit fighter path, but since your armor is so high take advantage and use a two handed weapon or reach weapon. Urgosh or greatspear for rain of blows could be good.
2. Wintertouched lasting frost reall.y isn't essential to this build. There are lots of other good feats out there, and you don't have to limit yourself to one weapon type.
3. Wildblood speed and HBO are good.
I'm actually looking at something I had considered before; a Glaive wielder with HBO. The AC will take a hit, but the stickiness will reach epic proportions, especially with a Paragon Path such as the Polearm Master.
I'm actually looking at something I had considered before; a Glaive wielder with HBO. The AC will take a hit, but the stickiness will reach epic proportions, especially with a Paragon Path such as the Polearm Master.

The Attack also takes a hit, because the glaive only has a +2 proficiency bonus.

From what I can tell, the only reach weapon that has a +3 proficiency bonus is Flail. Flail Mastery has a requirement of Str 19, Dex 19.

On the bright side, you can pull off the Spiked Chain Double weapon cheese with the Spiked Chain MC feat from the Dragon.

GH
The Attack also takes a hit, because the glaive only has a +2 proficiency bonus.

From what I can tell, the only reach weapon that has a +3 proficiency bonus is Flail. Flail Mastery has a requirement of Str 19, Dex 19.

On the bright side, you can pull off the Flail Double weapon cheese with the Flail MC feat from the Dragon.

GH

Great Spear is also +3
Great Spear is also +3

True, missed that one.

But it suffers from the same problem as Flails. Its Weapon Mastery requires Str 19, Dex 19.

Polearm Master paragon path works with either Greatspear or Spiked Chain, and Leveraging Strike lets you slide the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier. Which is great for a Warden.

Using Greatspear with Polearm Master and Polearm Momentum (Whenever you use a polearm or a spear attack to push or slide a target 2 or more squares,
you can also knock that target prone at the end of the forced movement.) would help a lot.

Spear Push (When you push a foe with a polearm or spear attack, you can add 1 square to the distance pushed.) is also nice.

Wildblood Warden with a Greatspear is starting to look crunchy.

GH
I was looking at a similar build with a different approach:

Minotaur


Red Bull, level 1
Minotaur, Warden
Guardian Might: Wildblood

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.


AC: 17 Fort: 15 Reflex: 13 Will: 13
HP: 32 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +9, Heal +7, Athletics +6, Perception +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics -2, Arcana, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance -1, History, Insight +2, Intimidate -1, Religion, Stealth -2, Streetwise -1, Thievery -2

FEATS
Level 1: Opportunity Gore

POWERS
Warden at-will 1: Weight of Earth
Warden at-will 1: Thorn Strike
Warden encounter 1: Earth Spikes
Warden daily 1: Form of Winter's Herald

Opportunity Gore knocks enemies prone, so no need for HBO.
PP: Beastblooded Minotaur, for +1 Reach and 9+2 Speed is nice at level 16, plus nice combos available when charging.

Here's a snapshot at level 11:

level 11
Red Bull, level 11
Minotaur, Warden, Beastblooded Minotaur
Guardian Might: Wildblood

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 16, Dex 15, Int 11, Wis 17, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.


AC: 23 Fort: 21 Reflex: 19 Will: 19
HP: 113 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 28

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +15, Heal +13, Athletics +12, Perception +15, Endurance +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +8, History +5, Insight +8, Intimidate +4, Religion +5, Stealth +4, Streetwise +4, Thievery +4

FEATS
Level 1: Opportunity Gore
Level 2: Battle Awareness
Level 4: Wildblood Cunning (retrained to Wildblood Speed at Level 11)
Level 6: Victor's Confidence
Level 8: Toughness
Level 10: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 11: Beast Within

POWERS
Warden at-will 1: Weight of Earth
Warden at-will 1: Thorn Strike
Warden encounter 1: Earth Spikes
Warden daily 1: Form of Winter's Herald
Warden utility 2: Nature's Abundance
Warden encounter 3: Burst of Earth's Fury
Warden daily 5: Hail of Thorns
Warden utility 6: Bear's Endurance
Warden encounter 7: Earth Gift
Warden daily 9: Form of the Oak Sentinel
Warden utility 10: Warding Vines

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Heavy Shield, Hide Armor, Longsword

True, missed that one.

But it suffers from the same problem as Flails. Its Weapon Mastery requires Str 19, Dex 19.

Polearm Master paragon path works with either Greatspear or Spiked Chain, and Leveraging Strike lets you slide the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier. Which is great for a Warden.

Using Greatspear with Polearm Master and Polearm Momentum (Whenever you use a polearm or a spear attack to push or slide a target 2 or more squares,
you can also knock that target prone at the end of the forced movement.) would help a lot.

Spear Push (When you push a foe with a polearm or spear attack, you can add 1 square to the distance pushed.) is also nice.

Wildblood Warden with a Greatspear is starting to look crunchy.

GH

Another potential combination here is using a glaive, with the Polearm Master: Reaching Strike Stance (threatening reach) and HBO. With this combination you could easily combine HBO + Thorn strike to hit opponents at the edge of your reach, allowing you to pull them in since the movement would trigger the AoO. Combine this with Form of the Oak (or Rowan) Sentinel you have threatening reach of 3, which you can slide opponents around in and knock prone with polearm momentum. Add polearm gamble for more hurt.

My only problems with that particular combination however is, first glaive sacrifices 1 to hit. Secondly, looking at the wardens ability list it doesn't seem to have a large number of moves which involve pushing. There are a few, such as Stalker's Positioning, I'm just not sure if there are enough abilities to make many of the bonuses granted by the build to see much use.

Also, if you did go such a build, I'm curious if you would find yourself losing stickiness that you might get from other encounter/daily powers. Thoughts?
Another potential combination here is using a glaive, with the Polearm Master: Reaching Strike Stance (threatening reach) and HBO. With this combination you could easily combine HBO + Thorn strike to hit opponents at the edge of your reach, allowing you to pull them in since the movement would trigger the AoO. Combine this with Form of the Oak (or Rowan) Sentinel you have threatening reach of 3, which you can slide opponents around in and knock prone with polearm momentum. Add polearm gamble for more hurt.

My only problems with that particular combination however is, first glaive sacrifices 1 to hit. Secondly, looking at the wardens ability list it doesn't seem to have a large number of moves which involve pushing. There are a few, such as Stalker's Positioning, I'm just not sure if there are enough abilities to make many of the bonuses granted by the build to see much use.

Also, if you did go such a build, I'm curious if you would find yourself losing stickiness that you might get from other encounter/daily powers. Thoughts?

I'm probably just going to build a Bastard Sword Warden, as the Reach Wardens tend to require a 19 Dex in order to get the Weapon Mastery (Spiked Chain or Greatspear) or you sacrifice the +1 Proficiency bonus. And either is too great of a sacrifice for my play style.

GH
I'm probably just going to build a Bastard Sword Warden, as the Reach Wardens tend to require a 19 Dex in order to get the Weapon Mastery (Spiked Chain or Greatspear) or you sacrifice the +1 Proficiency bonus. And either is too great of a sacrifice for my play style.

GH

For LFR, I have a card. Spellscarred: Larger than Life.

Basically, for the cost of a feat, it lets me add 1 square of reach to may melee attacks (unfortunately it doesn't do anything for opportunity attacks).

So, LDB, when do you think I should try to fit in this feat, and which of your feats should be used to replace it.

Thanks,
GH
I like this build alot. Here are my thoughts and questions with regards to the post and the comments for which I hope others here have some input.

This Warden is a defender first with a big secondary in striker. One of my biggest worries about many of the builds discussed here are that the Warden's defenses are going to be too low and he won't be able to take the big punishment he'll be inviting from the enemies. At low tiers of play, his AC is a bit low for a defender, though his other defenses are quite good. At high tiers of play he hasn't taken the epic defense feats, which may result in his getting a good beating at higher tiers. If we swap out the shield and wield a polearm, his AC becomes low enough that I would be very worried about his safety. I've played a Warden and while his HP is the highest in the game, he can become really squishy if ganged up on. One benefit of Pit Fighter is the +1 AC bonus, which brings this particular build back on par with the other defenders for AC.

If we choose to dump the weapon mastery, then we can start with another +1 in WIS and another +1 WIS at 21st level with Demigod. This will make his defenses better and give a boost to all of the other Warden abilities that use WIS. If we take this build and do this, then we free up a few slots from weapon feats, but your normal weapon damage is still very high (though less crits).

Son of Mercy is a great path that punishes one enemy (or more with the Red Death power) with the same effect as the Dirty Fighting Pit Fighter feature. You lose the AC bonus, but the immobilization is great.

On the other hand, lets say we pick up a great spear and go for the polearm build, but dump weapon mastery, you'd take a 1-2 point AC loss, but in exchange have amazing reach for all of your powers.

The fighter multiclass/adept power is also a nasty combo for one encounter that will make enemies want to get away from you (good luck to them).

Lastly, the Wintertouched/Lasting Frost combo is great and any character can use it provided they have a frost weapon. This guarantees extra damage and combat advantage. Is it necessary in this build when you already have so many ways of slowing or pulling enemies? That would be two feat slots that could be put to other uses.

Anyway, I'm looking for ideas as well and am wondering what the best combination of striker/controller/defender abilities would make for the best build given everything presented here.

Thanks!
Erm, I would like to know... nobody here likes the Come And Get It power and its superior versions? It may help in case enemies manage to escape from you... but I found is not a common choice here in the forums... maybe I misunderstood some parts of the power? Has its text been changed?

Also, having then an encounter dailt swap and a daily power swap, MC Paragon Fighter would open access to Combat Superiority with another feat... though maybe it is too feat intensive...
Lord Duskblade with another win.
How about using the superior weapon from the EPG...I think it's called the Talenta Sharrash.

It does 1d8 damage, +3 proficiency...it does not have reach...but...it is a heavy blade and polearm. So, Polearm Gamble + Heavy Blade Opportunity to all closing enemies.
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23
Lord Duskblade with another win.

I don't agree. This build has major flaws in the concept (as pointed out by SongNSilence) and the AC is too low for a build that aims to keep enemies close.

AC 27 at level 11? With no BRV? Even with 111 hps they're not going to last long with 4+ mobs around them.
Just one question: Shouldn't this build have the Student of the Sword multiclassing feat? I thought it was a prerequiste for Adept Power.
Antheros, Battle Awareness is a Fighter MC feat from MP. It counts as the necessary MC feat for the power swap stuff.
Hi - just a few questions... I have a player who is playing a Warden in my campaign and I wanted to go through some of the builds to see what kinds of things Wardens can do. I pulled this build up and started plugging it into the Character Builder, but I ran into a few problems: level 19 and level 25.

For level 19 you have nothing marked down other than adding hit points, but the Character Builder has it noted that there is a daily power to be picked. This then causes problems later on, because I had to get rid of a lower level power in order to pick something, but when I go through the completed list of powers (at level 30) you have powers that I now no longer have.

This is the same problem with level 25, as well.

Did you mean to leave those blank, or perhaps just forgot to copy it into the post? Hope I'm not stepping on toes; I'm just rather confused as to how to finish the build.

Thanks!

S.
You don't have to upgrade powers: at level 19 and 25 instead of picking a new power this build keeps its current ones.

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
Ah, ok!

Thanks

S.
How about using the superior weapon from the EPG...I think it's called the Talenta Sharrash. It does 1d8 damage, +3 proficiency...it does not have reach...but...it is a heavy blade and polearm. So, Polearm Gamble + Heavy Blade Opportunity to all closing enemies.



Actually, the Talenta Sharrash does have reach.  It is a polearm, and all polearms by definition have reach. 

I've been playing the Bastard Sword version of this build, and it is very sticky at level 9.  Primal Powers have some new interesting powers.  I am glad that he has Toughness and Bear's Endurance. 

I'm using Guardian Pounce and Form of the Frenzied Wolverine from PP. 

LDB, any thoughts on the PP powers?

GH

Since you are multiclassing to fighter anyway, can you fit in the feat, "Striking Resurgence?" Wardens actually like using their second wind as a standard action (and the wildblood debuff that accompanies it is very nice). Striking Resurgence means you get to make a damaging melee basic attack on top of that.