The Predator - Druid Controller/Striker

52 posts / 0 new
Last post

Druid/Blood Moon Stalker/Chosen

IMAGE(http://members.iinet.net.au/~jaherne/thehunted/yautja/alien-vs-predator.jpg)



Introducing The Predator - a druid controller/striker build.

The Predator, L1

Race: Shifter, Razorclaw
Class: Druid
Primal Aspect: Primal Predator
Background: Auspicious Birth

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments
Str 13 (+1)
Con 11 (+0)
Dex 18 (+4)
Int 10 (+0)
Wis 18 (+4)
Cha 8 (-1)

HP: 35; Bloodied: 17; Surges: 7 (8 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 17/11/15/15
Initiative: +4; Speed: 7

Charge: +5 vs Ref (1d8+4 and slow)
Grasping Claws: +4 vs Ref (1d8+4 and slow)

At-will Powers: wild shape, grasping claws, flame seed, savage rend
Encounter Powers: razorclaw shifting, cull the herd
Daily Powers: faerie fire

Trained Skills: arcana (+5), insight (+9), nature (+9), perception (+9)
Feats: ritual caster (druid bonus feat), toughness
Rituals: animal messenger, brew potion
Gear: standard adventurer's kit, hide armor, quarterstaff, 50 gp


Levels 2-10

L02. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: implement expertise (staff), new utility power: fleet pursuit

L03. +5 HP, new encounter power: predator's fury

L04. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Dex (19), +1 Wis (19), new feat: enraged boar form

L05. +5 HP, new daily power: wall of thorns

L06. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: shield proficiency (light), new utility power: camouflage cloak

L07. +5 HP, new encounter power: latch on

L08. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Dex (20), +1 Wis (20), new feat: battle awareness (heal)

L09. +5 HP, new daily attack power: entangle

L10. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: powerful charge, new utility power: feywild sojourn


The Predator, L11

Race: Shifter, Razorclaw
Class: Druid
Primal Aspect: Primal Predator
Paragon Path: Blood Moon Stalker

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments
Str 14 (+2)
Con 12 (+1)
Dex 21 (+5)
Int 11 (+0)
Wis 21 (+5)
Cha 9 (-1)

HP: 93; Bloodied: 46; Surges: 8 (23 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 26/21/25/24
Initiative: +10; Speed: 7

Charge: +15 vs Ref (1d8+13+1d6 and slow)
Grasping Claws: +13 vs Ref (1d8+9 and slow)
Battle Awareness: +13 vs Ref (1d8+9 and slide 1 square) once per encounter when adjacent enemy shifts or makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target

At-will Powers: wild shape, grasping claws, flame seed, savage rend
Encounter Powers: razorclaw shifting, cull the herd, predator's fury, latch on, blood moon frenzy
Daily Powers: faerie fire, wall of thorns, entangle
Utility Powers: fleet pursuit, camouflage cloak, feywild sojourn

Trained Skills: arcana (+10), heal (+15), insight (+15), nature (+15), perception (+15)
Feats: ritual caster (druid bonus feat), toughness, implement expertise (staff), enraged boar form, shield proficiency (light), battle awareness (heal), powerful charge, quick wild shape
Rituals: animal messenger, create campsite
Gear:
standard adventurer's kit
pouncing beast hide armor +2
staff of ruin +2 (main hand)
defensive staff +1 (off hand)
cloak of the walking wounded +2
jousting shield, light (heroic tier)
boots of the fencing master
belt of vim (heroic tier)
strikebacks
horned helm (heroic tier)

Changes from L10:
+11 HP, +1 Str (12), +1 Con (14), +1 Dex (21), +1 Int (11), +1 Wis (21), +1 Cha (9), new encounter power: blood moon frenzy, new feat: quick wild shape, new paragon path: blood moon stalker, new feature: blood moon action, new feature: blood moon hunger


Levels 12-20

L12. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: beasthide shifting, new utility power: feral accuracy

L13. +5 HP, new encounter power: claws of retribution

L14. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Dex (22), +1 Wis (22), new feat: shield specialization

L15. +5 HP, new daily power: baleful polymorph

L16. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: adept power (quicksilver stance), new utility power: howl of the wild, new feature: frenzied claws

L17. +5 HP, new encounter power: scavenger's prize

L18. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Dex (23), +1 Wis (23), new feat: primal fury

L19. +5 HP, new daily attack power: primal bear

L20. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: ferocious tiger form, new daily power: nature's grave


The Predator, L21

Race: Shifter, Razorclaw
Class: Druid
Primal Aspect: Primal Predator
Paragon Path: Blood Moon Stalker
Epic Destiny: Chosen

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments
Str 15 (+2)
Con 13 (+1)
Dex 26 (+8)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 26 (+8)
Cha 10 (+0)

HP: 153; Bloodied: 76; Surges: 8 (38 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 38/29/36/34
Initiative: +18; Speed: 7

Charge: +26 vs Ref (2d8+20+2d6 and slow)
Grasping Claws: +24 vs Ref (2d8+16 and slow)
Grasping Claws with CA and Quicksilver Stance: Shift 2 squares, +26 vs Ref (2d8+26 and slow) - as a move action! Also adds +1 to AC and Ref defenses.

At-will Powers: wild shape, grasping claws, flame seed, savage rend
Encounter Powers: razorclaw shifting, latch on, blood moon frenzy, claws of retribution, scavenger's prize
Daily Powers: entangle, quicksilver stance, nature's grave, primal bear
Utility Powers: fleet pursuit, camouflage cloak, feywild sojourn, feral accuracy, howl of the wild

Trained Skills: arcana (+16), heal (+23), insight (+23), nature (+23), perception (+23)
Feats: ritual caster (druid bonus feat), toughness, implement expertise (staff), enraged boar form, battle awareness (heal), shield proficiency (light), powerful charge, quick wild shape, beasthide shifting, shield specialization, adept power (quicksilver stance), primal fury, ferocious tiger form, primal resurgence
Rituals: animal messenger, brew potion
Gear:
standard adventurer's kit
pouncing beast darkhide armor +4
staff of ruin +4 (main hand)
defensive staff +1 (off hand)
cloak of the walking wounded +4
jousting shield, light (paragon tier)
boots of the fencing master
belt of vim (paragon tier)
strikebacks
horned helm (paragon tier)
war ring

Changes from L20:
+10 HP, +1 Str (15), +1 Con (13), +3 Dex (26), +1 Int (12), +3 Wis (26), +1 Cha (10), new feat: primal resurgence, new epic destiny: chosen


Levels 22-30

L22. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: primal aspect form, new utility power: unseen beast

L23. +5 HP, new encounter power: grasping earth

L24. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Dex (27), +1 Wis (27), new feat: power attack, new feature: divine recovery

L25. +5 HP, new daily power: primal tiger

L26. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: shield proficiency (heavy), new utility power: divine regeneration

L27. +5 HP, new encounter power: leaping rake

L28. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, +1 Dex (28), +1 Wis (28), new feat: skill training (acrobatics)

L29. +5 HP, new daily attack power: primal archtype

L30. +5 HP, +1 to all level-dependent abilities, new feat: unfettered stride, new feature: divine miracle


The Predator, L30

Race: Shifter, Razorclaw
Class: Druid
Primal Aspect: Primal Predator
Paragon Path: Blood Moon Stalker
Epic Destiny: Chosen

Ability Scores, with racial adjustments
Str 15 (+2)
Con 13 (+1)
Dex 28 (+9)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 28 (+9)
Cha 10 (+0)

HP: 200; Bloodied: 100; Surges: 8 (50 HP)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 48/36/44/41
Initiative: +24; Speed: 7

Charge: +35 vs Ref (2d8+25+3d6 and slow)
Grasping Claws: +33 vs Ref (2d8+21 and slow)
Grasping Claws with CA and Quicksilver Stance: Shift 2 squares, +35 vs Ref (2d8+32 and slow) - as a move action! Also adds +1 to AC and Ref defenses.

At-will Powers: wild shape, grasping claws, flame seed, savage rend
Encounter Powers: razorclaw shifting, blood moon frenzy, scavenger's prize, grasping earth, leaping rake
Daily Powers: quicksilver stance, nature's grave, primal tiger, primal archtype
Utility Powers: fleet pursuit, camouflage cloak, feywild sojourn, feral accuracy, howl of the wild, unseen beast, divine regeneration

Trained Skills: acrobatics (+28), arcana (+21), heal (+29), insight (+29), nature (+29), perception (+29)
Feats: ritual caster (druid bonus feat), toughness, implement expertise (staff), enraged boar form, battle awareness (heal), shield proficiency (light), powerful charge, quick wild shape, beasthide shifting, shield specialization, adept power (quicksilver stance), primal fury, ferocious tiger form, primal resurgence, primal aspect form, power attack, shield proficiency (heavy), skill training (acrobatics), unfettered stride
Rituals: animal messenger, brew potion
Gear:
standard adventurer's kit
pouncing beast elderhide armor +6
staff of ruin +6
cloak of the walking wounded +6
jousting shield, heavy (epic tier)
boots of the fencing master
belt of vim (epic tier)
strikebacks
horned helm (epic tier)
war ring
shadow band


The Predator, Items by Level 1-30

L01.
Standard Adventurer's Kit
Hide Armor
Quarterstaff
L02.
Defensive Staff +1
Jousting Shield (heroic tier)
L03.
Staff of Ruin +1
L04.
Pouncing Beast Armor +1
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +1
L05.
L06.
Horned Helm (heroic tier)
L07.
Boots of the Fencing Master
L08.
Staff of Ruin +2
Belt of Vim (heroic tier)
L09.
Pouncing Beast Armor +2
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +2
L10.
Strikebacks
L11.
L12.
Jousting Shield (paragon tier)
L13.
Staff of Ruin +3
L14.
Pouncing Beast Earthhide Armor +3
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +3
L15.
L16.
War Ring
Horned Helm (paragon tier)
L17.
L18.
Staff of Ruin +4
Belt of Vim (paragon tier)
L19.
Pouncing Beast Darkhide Armor +4
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +4
L20.
L21.
L22.
Jousting Shield (epic tier)
L23.
Staff of Ruin +5
L24.
Pouncing Beast Stalkerhide Armor +5
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +5
L25.
L26.
Horned Helm (epic tier)
L27.
Shadow Band
L28.
Staff of Ruin +6
Belt of Vim (epic tier)
L29.
Pouncing Beast Elderhide Armor +6
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +6
L30.


Build Goal and Tactics:



The goal of this build is to fulfill the controller role while also being able to mix it up in melee as a pseudo striker. With this build, you should be able to drop an area effect spell (e.g. faerie fire) and then charge into battle. This build likes to get bloody so it can activate its razorclaw shifting ability. At level 11, once you drop an enemy, you can activate second wind as a free action, getting two healing surges instead of one thanks to the cloak of the walking wounded. If you're about to die, you can shift out of combat and start dropping area effect spells again.

The aim is to make this build fun to play at all levels while still keeping an eye on the higher levels. Several things could be altered in the build depending on your play style or the party makeup. Rushing cleats could be used instead of boots of the fencing master to make better use of savage rend. One of the beast form at-wills could be retrained for pounce if there is a party member who isn't very accurate, you have a rogue who has trouble getting combat advantage or if you find yourself fighting monsters alone. Str and Con could be swapped. You'd lose battle awareness, shield proficiency (light) and powerful charge until epic and lose power attack and shield proficiency (heavy) completely. But you'd gain hide specialization at epic and could continue to use a defensive staff in your off hand since you wouldn't be switching to a heavy shield.

Any feedback is welcome!
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
Good stuff, I like blood moon stalker especially on a shifter. I think all the features and powers really help out a melee focused druid.

The aim is to make this build fun to play at all levels while still keeping an eye on the higher levels. I'm not sure that starting with a strength if 11 is worth it, denying the build powerful charge until epic, just so it can eventually get hide armor specialization.

13 starting strength could also get you power attack in addition to heavy shield. With claws of retribution and grasping earth (with primal tiger and leaping rake) you should be able to power attack and still hit on a 2. 13 also gives you access to battle awareness and quick silver if you fancy some non stat dependant mutliclassing. Both of those could increase the striker role even though not from a striker class. I reckon for this particular build it might be worth it and go for shield specialization instead
Good stuff, I like blood moon stalker especially on a shifter. I think all the features and powers really help out a melee focused druid.

13 starting strength could also get you power attack in addition to heavy shield. With claws of retribution and grasping earth (with primal tiger and leaping rake) you should be able to power attack and still hit on a 2. 13 also gives you access to battle awareness and quick silver if you fancy some non stat dependent multi-classing. Both of those could increase the striker role even though not from a striker class. I reckon for this particular build it might be worth it and go for shield specialization instead

Thanks for the input!

I went ahead and swapped Str and Con so that the build qualifies for powerful charge, shield proficiency (light) and battle awareness at heroic levels. Shield fighting could be good too; use it before you get bloodied the first time. Unfortunately, I couldn't seem to fit it in before paragon and after you get shield specialization it loses its appeal. I really like battle awareness, I think it fits perfectly. But, what is "quick silver"?

At heroic, durable got cut while primal fury and ferocious tiger form got pushed to paragon. At paragon, hunting wolf form, cliffwalk shifting and danger sense got cut and shield specialization was added in.

Overall, I'm not quite sure that in the end shield proficiency (heavy) plus power attack will be better than armor specialization (hide), but getting the "13 Str" feats in heroic really made the difference for me. I think the build is a bit more focused now; charge into combat, take advantage of the minor action shift, move out of combat, cast an AoE and charge back in. Don't worry so much about getting combat advantage.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
How do you people handle the druid´s at-will Wild Shape and the Moonstalker utility(Unleash the silent predator)?

Technically the wolf form will substitute your human form for the encounter... and also you cant use the wolf form to use Beastkeyword powers.
(The utility do not allow you to use power with beast keyword. . . ; but in a completelly counter intuitive point it allow you to use your powers that lack the beast keyword ; to make things even funnier the wild shape power can turn you back to "human" canceling your utility )

I sense a design fumble there... what you think?
If you were already in wild form, you wouldn't be able to use it. If you are not in wild form, then you become a wolf. You can use your wild shape power and become whatever your wild form is. If you dismiss your wild shape, you return to your wolf form. I don't see the issue.
If you were already in wild form, you wouldn't be able to use it. If you are not in wild form, then you become a wolf. You can use your wild shape power and become whatever your wild form is. If you dismiss your wild shape, you return to your wolf form. I don't see the issue.

k,

You use the utility power. It turns you in a wolf... strangelly you are not on beast form... you can freely use all druid without-beast-keyword powers. But you cannot use your beast-keyword powers as a wolf.

Great... after the utility power you use wild form at will. Technically it is just a wolf turning into a.... wolf.
But now, as a new wolf you can use beast-form-keywords powers... and cannot use your druid powers.

And if now you want to go back to your previous form... it will be a wolf... it ll be an elf?

The rules don´t cover double polymorph bonus.
Technically... using just the rules... the second wolf(after wild form; so ... a wolf that turned itself into another wolf) gains the +wisdom to speed bonus, and is now a wolf on wild shape.


Something wrong there...

(just to make fun of it... it is a wolf turning into a wolf and receiving the bonus of the previous wolf.... almost a pack=P)
How do you people handle the druid´s at-will Wild Shape and the Moonstalker utility(Unleash the silent predator)?

Technically the wolf form will substitute your human form for the encounter... and also you cant use the wolf form to use Beastkeyword powers.
(The utility do not allow you to use power with beast keyword. . . ; but in a completelly counter intuitive point it allow you to use your powers that lack the beast keyword ; to make things even funnier the wild shape power can turn you back to "human" canceling your utility )

I sense a design fumble there... what you think?

Blood Moon Stalker is not the same thing as Moonstalker
The first is a druid paragon, the second is a shifter paragon.

If your question did apply to this build, the answer would be that you can only have one polymorph effect on you at a time, so a second one cancels the first.
Blood Moon Stalker is not the same thing as Moonstalker
The first is a druid paragon, the second is a shifter paragon.

If your question did apply to this build, the answer would be that you can only have one polymorph effect on you at a time, so a second one cancels the first.

Right... the rules cover double polymorph. But since the druid at-will power tunr you back into humanoid form... and that was the last polymorph you use. It ll cancel the utility power that you used before?

Technically ... yes.

(Still funny... wolf turn into wolf but cannot turn back to the previous wolf)


(Sorry OP i misstook your PP)
The rules don´t cover double polymorph bonus.
Technically... using just the rules... the second wolf(after wild form; so ... a wolf that turned itself into another wolf) gains the +wisdom to speed bonus, and is now a wolf on wild shape.

Actually, they do (PHB2, pg 220).

One Polymorph at a Time: If you are affected by more than one polymorph power, only the most recent has any effect. The other powers' effects remain on you and their durations expire as normal, but those effects don't apply. However, when the most recent effect ends, the next most recent one that is still active applies to you.

You're in caster, and you activate Moonstalker (which as stated isn't the same as Blood Moon Stalker). You're now affected by a polymorph effect, which lasts until the end of the encounter, no matter what. You then use wild shape, which is a different polymorph effect. The Moonstalker form's effects are still active, but they're surpressed as wild shape is more recent and takes priority. When you end wild shape (by returning to "humanoid form"), its effects end and the Moonstalker form takes precedent again.

They don't cancel each other out, but nor would they stack in any way. Essentially, your humanoid form becomes a bestial wolf form for the encounter, but it's a different form than the wild shape wolf form, and you can switch between the two freely.
Actually, they do (PHB2, pg 220).

One Polymorph at a Time: If you are affected by more than one polymorph power, only the most recent has any effect. The other powers' effects remain on you and their durations expire as normal, but those effects don't apply. However, when the most recent effect ends, the next most recent one that is still active applies to you.

You're in caster, and you activate Moonstalker (which as stated isn't the same as Blood Moon Stalker). You're now affected by a polymorph effect, which lasts until the end of the encounter, no matter what. You then use wild shape, which is a different polymorph effect. The Moonstalker form's effects are still active, but they're surpressed as wild shape is more recent and takes priority. When you end wild shape (by returning to "humanoid form"), its effects end and the Moonstalker form takes precedent again.

They don't cancel each other out, but nor would they stack in any way. Essentially, your humanoid form becomes a bestial wolf form for the encounter, but it's a different form than the wild shape wolf form, and you can switch between the two freely.

Read my post above yours....

The way i read... the utility is permanemtly cancelled. Because the power that turn you back to homanoid is also a polymorph, and it was the last used.

?

(Sorry again for the paragon mistake)


[BTW i just noticed the "to be a humanoid" seems a prereq to use the druid at-will.
Anywau... when you go back to humanoid form you re-use the power... that was the last...]
Because the power that turn you back to homanoid is also a polymorph, and it was the last used.

That's debatable. Technically, you could read it that way, but it seems silly to me - it means that all druids are pretty much considered permanently polymorphed. Personally, I view "switching to humanoid form" as "ending this effect".
That's debatable. Technically, you could read it that way, but it seems silly to me - it means that all druids are pretty much considered permanently polymorphed. Personally, I view "switching to humanoid form" as "ending this effect".

Your conclusion seems reasonable to me... too.

But the turn-back-to-humanoid is another use of the power. Keyword again.
Also... if you read the power it looks like you can only use it if you are in humanoid form...

If i had a rule game problem i ll solve it using the same common sense you show us in your post. Still the polymorph rules are unclear... as it always been.
But, what is "quick silver"?

Sorry wasn't very clear. That would be a power swap to the 15th level fighter quicksilver stance. It gives you an extra basic attack as a move action each round for the encounter with a free 2 square shift built in. And it does +WIS damage if you have combat advantage. So use it after pounce or shift 2 to a flank if you can first. For a strikerish build I would take this even over baleful polymorph

Since the druid has pretty much the best basic attacks in the game anything to give more is great. The battle awareness feat lets you slide as an immediate action which is great when fighting besides a fighter. Enemy attacks you the fighter wacks it - enemy attacks the fighter and you wack it and prevent the attack with a slide (once an encounter of course)
I dont believe you can wield both a staff and a shield
I dont believe you can wield both a staff and a shield

You can't wield the staff as a weapon, in this case. Since the druid doesn't need it as a melee weapon, he should be okay. I'm fairly certain you need only one hand to wield an Implement.

What happened to my post count? It seems the more I post, the more it drops. Is that how it's supposed to work?

Sorry wasn't very clear. That would be a power swap to the 15th level fighter quicksilver stance. It gives you an extra basic attack as a move action each round for the encounter with a free 2 square shift built in. And it does +WIS damage if you have combat advantage. So use it after pounce or shift 2 to a flank if you can first. For a strikerish build I would take this even over baleful polymorph

Since the druid has pretty much the best basic attacks in the game anything to give more is great. The battle awareness feat lets you slide as an immediate action which is great when fighting besides a fighter. Enemy attacks you the fighter wacks it - enemy attacks the fighter and you wack it and prevent the attack with a slide (once an encounter of course)

Thanks for the explanation!

Quicksilver Stance is awesome with this build, I was able to work it in pretty easily. It definitely makes pounce more appealing, however, since the stance is a daily, I'm sticking with grasping claws and savage rend for the beast form powers.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
Hmm.. trying this using elf.
Hmm.. trying this using elf.

Thanks for the suggestion! I did consider elf when I first constructed this build, but went with razorclaw shifter instead because I thought it fit better with the blood moon stalker paragon path and melee controller/striker focus.

There's already an excellent elven primal predator druid build out there. You can find it here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1165587. It goes with the twilight guardian paragon path and is more controller and less striker than my build.

But, just for discussion's sake let's break down the differences...

Speed: Elf primal predators will have an 8 movement versus a 7 for the shifter. Clearly 8 is better, however, when you consider the shifter racial power gives you another 2 boost to speed that helps even things. Also, once you start getting powers like fleet pursuit the speed bonuses get a little redundant. There's always the fast runner feat or sandals of avandra if you really want to pump speed.

Skill Bonuses: Elves get boosts to nature and perception, two class abilities, while shifter's don't. But, shifters do get boosts to acrobatics and stealth which key of the primal predator's secondary stat.

Racial Powers: Elven accuracy is very nice. However, it's main draw (at least for me) is ensuring that you hit with your big daily powers. With this build, a lot of the dailies are chosen for their "effect" rider which goes off whether or not you hit. So, it's not as good as it normally would be. I like the staying power of the +1 to AC and Ref that you get from razorclaw shifting.

The main advantage I see with an elven druid is wild step. Being able to ignore difficult terrain while shifting is huge for druids with their wild shape ability. I think the jousting shield helps even this a little since, if you charge away you can resist 5/10/15 of the damage. Also, once you get unfettered stride, the advantage goes away.

Racial Feats: No big advantage here either way as there aren't too many good racial feats for either race. Blurring claws would be awesome if it didn't have the weapon keyword requirement. Gorebrute charge would also be awesome if it wasn't just for longtooth shifters. Each build only uses one racial feat, elven precision at level 10 versus beasthide shifting at level 12.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
Yeah... not so sure i like that build. Implement expertise needs to be taken ASAP in my opinion.. +1 to hit is just too important to wait on. I like the pseudo-striker build but i also like the added mobility of the elf. This character will be used for RPGA... I've been tossing around elf, shifter, and human since the idea came out. We're starting Scepter Tower of Spellgard this weekend so I have till then to decide on race. The extra at-will and action surge of the human are also very tempting.
Great build, but, don't you drop your shield every time you turn into beast form?
Great build, but, don't you drop your shield every time you turn into beast form?

Shields actually fit Arm slot I believe.
Thats interesting. In the CB software shields are equipped in your off hand. I checked PHB1 to be completely sure and its pretty darned vague - very confusing. Hmph.
Thats interesting. In the CB software shields are equipped in your off hand. I checked PHB1 to be completely sure and its pretty darned vague - very confusing. Hmph.

Arms Slot Items
Shields and bracers contain powers that protect you from harm or that turn an attack against you into an immediate attack against your enemy. A set of qualities that pertains to a magic shield can be applied to either a light shield or a heavy shield.

Not vague, just not put in a proper, easily viewable place.
Thats interesting. In the CB software shields are equipped in your off hand. I checked PHB1 to be completely sure and its pretty darned vague - very confusing. Hmph.

I've found a few issues with creating this build using the Character Builder (CB) and that is one of them.

Here are some quotes from the PHB, page 213: "When you use a shield, you strap it to an arm and sometimes use the hand on that arm—your shield arm and shield hand." and page 214: "Light Shield: You need to use your shield hand to wield a light shield properly. You can still use that hand to hold another item, to climb, or the like. However, you can’t use your shield hand to make attacks. Heavy Shield: When you use a heavy shield, you gain a greater bonus to your AC and Reflex defense, but you can’t use your shield hand for any other task."

Also worth noting is that if you are holding an implement in your shield hand, you do not get the implement's enhancement bonus to your powers, but you still benefit from any property the implement has. See #3 on the PHB FAQ at: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396.

Another bug of note, is that staff implements can't be used one handed in CB. See the "Other" section on the known issues list at: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1543.

Staff of ruin doesn't seem to calculate damage correctly. The Chosen utility power prints the utility powers for all the FR deities (instead of a single one). The adept power feat doesn't seem to work correctly (i.e. I can't replace baleful polymorph with quicksilver stance). There may be others, but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
unfortunatly at level thirty you would have to replace Primal Bear or Primal Tiger you can't replace natures grave because you can't lose paragon powers or epic destiny powers, which one would you suggest losing?

Players handbook pg. 28 top of page second column second paragraph "You can't replace a power that's a class feature (such as a cleric's healing word or a warlock's eldritch blast) or a power gained from a paragon path or epic destiny.
unfortunatly at level thirty you would have to replace Primal Bear or Primal Tiger you can't replace natures grave because you can't lose paragon powers or epic destiny powers, which one would you suggest losing?

Players handbook pg. 28 top of page second column second paragraph "You can't replace a power that's a class feature (such as a cleric's healing word or a warlock's eldritch blast) or a power gained from a paragon path or epic destiny.

Ugh! You're right, good catch. I guess I would have to say lose primal bear. As much as I love the +2 to AC and Fortitude effect, the grab rider isn't that great. Primal tiger's shift dex mod rider and melee basic attack opportunity action effect are superior in my opinion. Both powers are way better than nature's grave though. Too bad there's no 'reserve maneuver' for daily powers.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
Why bother with Heavy Shield spec. at all? By going with Heavy Shield you bump your shield's AC and Reflex boosts by 1 each and take on a -2 penalty to checks. By sticking with a Light Jousting Shield instead, you avoid the armor check penalty entirely and are able to keep using your Defensive staff in the off-hand as well. This ends up giving you a net +1 Fort, +1 Will and +2 to all Str, Dex and Con skill checks, as well as freeing up a feat slot in exchange for -1 AC. I'm pretty sure this is a solid trade-off, particularly considering that you can use that feat slot to take something like Epic Fortitude or Robust Defenses to shore up your defenses even further.

In addition, if we've decided that you can have a shield strapped to your arm such that you won't lose its benefits while Wild Shaping, you can use that extra feat gained to take Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Shield) and have it enchanted as a weapon, allowing you to use bracers in your arm slot while keeping the AC and Reflex bonuses from your shield. Wild Shape says that you aren't allowed to use weapon powers while in beast form, but if you manage to not drop the item, I'd imagine its property would still function.

That opens up the option of taking a +5 Thundergod Spiked Shield for an extra 2d6 thunder damage on your charges (or a +1 Vanguard weapon to save money, which gives you +1d8 untyped damage on all successful charges), and also allowing you an Arm slot for bracers (Likely Iron Armbands of Power for further striker-y goodness.)
You can't wield a defensive staff in the same hand as a shield...
You can't wield a defensive staff in the same hand as a shield...

It's already been brought up in the thread, and we're all pretty certain you can, in fact, use a defensive staff in your shield hand.

3. If you wield a light shield, you can also hold an item as well, although you can’t attack with it. What if that item is an implement? Can you apply its implement bonus to your powers?
No. Using an implement to gain its bonuses is considered attacking with that implement. If you wield a light shield and hold an implement in the same hand, you would not get the implement enhancement bonus to your powers, but you would still benefit from any property that the implement has.

The way it's worded makes it so it is unnecessary to actually be wielding the implement in your shield hand to take advantage of its property.
Why bother with Heavy Shield spec. at all? By going with Heavy Shield you bump your shield's AC and Reflex boosts by 1 each and take on a -2 penalty to checks. By sticking with a Light Jousting Shield instead, you avoid the armor check penalty entirely and are able to keep using your Defensive staff in the off-hand as well. This ends up giving you a net +1 Fort, +1 Will and +2 to all Str, Dex and Con skill checks, as well as freeing up a feat slot in exchange for -1 AC. I'm pretty sure this is a solid trade-off, particularly considering that you can use that feat slot to take something like Epic Fortitude or Robust Defenses to shore up your defenses even further.

I assume you mean why bother with heavy shield proficiency. I guess the answer is simple. AC is the most targeted defense, especially for those who regularly fight in melee (which this build is set up to do). Swapping robust defenses for shield proficiency (heavy) and being able to keep the defensive staff is certainly a strong option though.

In addition, if we've decided that you can have a shield strapped to your arm such that you won't lose its benefits while Wild Shaping, you can use that extra feat gained to take Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Shield) and have it enchanted as a weapon, allowing you to use bracers in your arm slot while keeping the AC and Reflex bonuses from your shield. Wild Shape says that you aren't allowed to use weapon powers while in beast form, but if you manage to not drop the item, I'd imagine its property would still function.

That opens up the option of taking a +5 Thundergod Spiked Shield for an extra 2d6 thunder damage on your charges (or a +1 Vanguard weapon to save money, which gives you +1d8 untyped damage on all successful charges), and also allowing you an Arm slot for bracers (Likely Iron Armbands of Power for further striker-y goodness.)

A spiked shield is a weapon that is combined with a light shield. While in beast form, you cannot use the properties or powers of weapons. Therefore, I don't think you could use the magical properties or powers of a spiked shield that is enchanted as a weapon (as awesome as that would be). Using a non-magical shield and iron armbands of power instead of a magical jousting shield is certainly a viable option though.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
what is the bloodmoon stalker? i dont have a copy of phb2, so a quick summary might do. go into as much detail as you wish. very nice job on him, btw.:P
what is the bloodmoon stalker? i dont have a copy of phb2, so a quick summary might do. go into as much detail as you wish. very nice job on him, btw.:P

Thanks for the compliment!

Blood Moon Stalker is the paragon path of choice for pseudo-striker predator druids. Feature highlights include getting a free melee basic attack while in beast form when spending an action point, free action second wind when you drop someone and being able to critical on a 19-20 while in beast form. The powers are also striker type powers which focus mostly on dishing out damage. Hope that helps!

I highly recommend the PHB2, especially if you're interested in playing a druid.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
The build looks like a lot of fun, and it's one I'm considering for an upcoming game. I DO have a suggestion though, in terms of gear.

This build is very heavily melee-focused. That being the case, would it not make more sense to go with Iron Armbands of Power for your +6 item boost to damage rather than Staff of Ruin? Yes, I know, the Armbands won't apply to all of your damage - but they'll apply to most of it, and they open up your implement slot for something like Staff of the Serpent for an additional +1d6 damage.

Just a thought.
The build looks like a lot of fun, and it's one I'm considering for an upcoming game. I DO have a suggestion though, in terms of gear.

This build is very heavily melee-focused. That being the case, would it not make more sense to go with Iron Armbands of Power for your +6 item boost to damage rather than Staff of Ruin? Yes, I know, the Armbands won't apply to all of your damage - but they'll apply to most of it, and they open up your implement slot for something like Staff of the Serpent for an additional +1d6 damage.

Just a thought.

That's an interesting suggestion... seems like the Staff of the Serpent could have some pretty cool RP value too. Wild Shape into a cobra and poison enemies with your deadly bite... you are trading the d10s (untyped) for d8s (poison) on critical hit damage though and as you pointed out, Iron Armbands of Power won't apply to your non-melee damage rolls.
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
how does shield pro light. work into this when you drop anything your holding that is not an Implement, when you go into beast form.
how does shield pro light. work into this when you drop anything your holding that is not an Implement, when you go into beast form.

It's true that you drop anything you're holding that isn't an implement. However, shields are strapped to your arm and you are therefore considered to be "wearing" the item. Check out #5 on the Player's Handbook 2 FAQ available here: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1695. Hope that helps!
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
If I take the Staff Fighting feat, would the bonus to AC from the Defensive property apply while in Beast Form ?

The following wording in the description of the feat seems to imply it:
"To gain this benefit, you need not attack with the defensive weapon, but you must be proficient with it."

I know it would be better to take the shield profiency for an extra +1 to reflex but I wanted to knowin case I put 13 in CON instead of STR.

Thanks for the great build !!!
___________________________ CyberGaston
If I take the Staff Fighting feat, would the bonus to AC from the Defensive property apply while in Beast Form ?

The following wording in the description of the feat seems to imply it:
"To gain this benefit, you need not attack with the defensive weapon, but you must be proficient with it."

I know it would be better to take the shield profiency for an extra +1 to reflex but I wanted to knowin case I put 13 in CON instead of STR.

Thanks for the great build !!!

You're welcome! I'm glad you like it.

Regarding the staff fighting feat. No, you don't get the benefit while in beast form. The staff fighting feat allows you to treat the quarterstaff as a double weapon that deals 1d8/1d8 damage and has the defensive and off-hand properties. It's the defensive property that gives you the +1 bonus to AC. The defensive property is a weapon property, not an implement property. The wild shape power clearly states that you do not benefit from properties or powers of weapons while in beast form.

As far as I know there hasn't been an "official" ruling on this, but that's how I read it. Hope that helps clear things up!
I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
Yes it helps !

Thank you ! I can't wait to play this class ! :D
___________________________ CyberGaston

I'm not sure it's worth updating this build until sblocks are fixed.  It looks like a mess!  I have made some changes to this build though.  Claw gloves from AV2 are pretty awesome.  I think it makes it worth it to take pounce (over grasping claws) and also ferocious tiger form earlier.  I'm pretty torn on entangle versus primal wolf for the 9th level daily.  Entangle with an action point to drop a wall of thorns can be a total game changer, but at-will proning is very tempting.  Thoughts?

I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
Am I just missing where you took the specific multi-class ability to get quicksilver?

What I mean to say is, wouldn't you need to take Student of the Sword feat in order to get Adept Power for Quicksilver Stance?

Edit:

As I was...Battle Awareness covers it, right?
Sign In to post comments