Half-Elf Avenger/Daggermaster

35 posts / 0 new
Last post
I've been exploring Avenger mechanics for a game I'm going to play, and I got some interesting numbers with my spreadsheets for a build I came up with a week ago when Versatile Master was leaked. It's a nice, yet extremely boring concept: Twin Strike, high damage critical hits, and rerolling awesomeness. Part of the credit goes to Lumi, who helped with feats, items, and prevented boredom in general.

Race: Half elf

Class:
Avenger/Rogue/Daggermaster

Relevant Powers: Twin Strike

Relevant feats:
Action Surge (PHB)
Rogue MC (PHB)
Weapon Focus (PHB)
Devastating Critical (PHB)
Versatile Master (PHB2)
Weapon Expertise (PHB2)
Two-Weapon Opening (PHB2)

Relevant Equipment:
Bloodiron Daggers
War Ring
Iron Armbands of Power


Level 16

Attack Bonus with CA: +23 (+8 half level, +5 Strength modifier, +3 enhancement, +3 proficiency bonus, +2 Weapon Expertise, +2 CA)
Bonus Damage: +14 (+5 Strength modifier, +3 enhancement, +2 Weapon Focus, +4 Iron Armbands of Power)
Bonus Damage (Twin Strike): +9 (+3 enhancement, +2 Weapon Focus, +4 Iron Armbands of Power)
Crit Range: 18-20 (Roll twice for each attack, mainhand critical hits give an extra attack with your offhand weapon)
Critical Extra Damage: +9d10 damage (+3d10 Bloodiron Dagger, +1d10 War Ring)* 2 + 1d10 Devastating Critical

Average AC of a level 16 enemy: 30

Miss chance (before reroll) 0.3<br /> Crit chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Hit chance (noncrit) 0.6325<br /> Crit chance 0.2775<br /> Miss chance 0.09<br /> Chance of at least one critical hit 0.47799375<br /> Hit chance (including crits) 0.91<br /> <br /> Twin Strike Damage 11.5<br /> Twin Strike Damage (Crit) 62.5<br /> Offhand Basic Damage 16.5<br /> Offhand Basic Damage (Crit) 67.5<br /> <br /> Damage per Twin Strike attack 24.6175<br /> Damage per Offhand Basic attack 29.1675<br /> [b]Twin Strike Total 57.32898125[/b]

Punisher of the Gods level 24 and level 30 calculations - 344 DPR
Level 24

Attack Bonus with CA: +31 (+12 half level, +7 Strength modifier, +5 enhancement, +3 proficiency bonus, +2 Weapon Expertise, +2 CA)
Bonus Damage: +19 (+7 Strength modifier, +5 enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +4 Iron Armbands of Power)
Bonus Damage (Twin Strike): +12 (+5 enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +4 Iron Armbands of Power)

Crit Range: 18-20 (Roll twice for each attack, mainhand critical hits give an extra attack with your offhand weapon)
Critical Extra Damage: +13d10 damage (+5d10 Bloodiron Dagger, +1d10 War Ring) * 2, +1d10 Devastating Critical

Average AC of a level 24 enemy: 38

***No Action Surge***<br /> Miss chance (before reroll) 0.3<br /> Crit chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Hit chance (noncrit) 0.6325<br /> Crit chance 0.2775<br /> Miss chance 0.09<br /> Chance of at least one critical hit 0.47799375<br /> Hit chance (including crits) 0.91<br /> <br /> ***Action Surge*** <br /> Miss chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Crit chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Hit chance (noncrit) 0.7<br /> Crit chance 0.2775<br /> Miss chance 0.0225<br /> Chance of at least one critical hit 0.47799375<br /> Hit chance (including crits) 0.9775<br /> <br /> Twin Strike Damage 17<br /> Twin Strike Damage (Crit) 91.5<br /> Offhand Basic Damage 24<br /> Offhand Basic Damage (Crit) 98.5<br /> <br /> Initial Twin Strike damage 72.2875<br /> Damage per additional Twin Strike attack 37.29125<br /> Damage per Offhand Basic attack 44.13375<br /> Damage added by offhand extra attacks 19.49133141<br /> Twin Strike Subtotal 94.07383141<br /> Average Twin Strikes per round 1.915685875<br /> [b]Twin Strike Total 202.5633287[/b]

Level 30

Weapons: 2x Bloodiron Dagger +3 (4 damage per [W], maxed thanks to Punisher of the Gods)

Attack Bonus with CA: +37 (+15 half level, +8 Strength modifier, +6 enhancement, +3 proficiency bonus, +3 Weapon Expertise, +2 CA)
Bonus Damage: +23 (+8 Strength modifier, +6 enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power)
Bonus Damage (Twin Strike): +15 (+6 enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power)

Crit Range: 18-20 (Roll twice for each attack, mainhand critical hits give an extra attack with your offhand weapon)
Critical Extra Damage: +150 damage (+6d10 Bloodiron Dagger, +1d10 War Ring) * 2, +1d10 Devastating Critical

Average AC of a level 30 enemy: 44

***No Action Surge*** <br /> Miss chance (before reroll) 0.3<br /> Crit chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Hit chance (noncrit) 0.6325<br /> Crit chance 0.2775<br /> Miss chance 0.09<br /> Chance of at least one critical hit 0.47799375<br /> Hit chance (including crits) 0.91<br /> <br /> ***Action Surge*** <br /> Miss chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Crit chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Hit chance (noncrit) 0.7<br /> Crit chance 0.2775<br /> Miss chance 0.0225<br /> Chance of at least one critical hit 0.47799375<br /> Hit chance (including crits) 0.9775<br /> <br /> Twin Strike Damage 23<br /> Twin Strike Damage (Crit) 173<br /> Offhand Basic Damage 31<br /> Offhand Basic Damage (Crit) 181<br /> <br /> Initial Twin Strike damage 125.11<br /> Damage per additional Twin Strike attack 64.1075<br /> Damage per Offhand Basic attack 71.9275<br /> Damage added by offhand extra attacks 32.32225308<br /> Twin Strike Subtotal 160.5372531<br /> Average Twin Strikes per round 1.915685875<br /> [b]Twin Strike Total 344.0391951[/b]



EDIT: here's the full level 30 Eternal Seeker build, which is actually awesome and fun to play - you have encounter and daily powers worth using.
Level 30 Half-elf Avenger/Daggermaster/Eternal Seeker - 117.64 DPR
Attributes
STR 24
DEX 22
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 12


Feats:

Acolyte Power (Raise the Stakes)
Danger Sense
Devastating Critical
Epic Resurgence
Improved Armor of Faith
Martial Mastery
Mighty Enmity
Nimble Blade
Onslaught of Enmity
Primal Resurgence
Righteous Rage of Tempus
Sneak of Shadows
Two-Weapon Fighting
Two-Weapon Flurry
Two-Weapon Opening
Unfettered Stride
Versatile Master
Weapon Expertise
Weapon Focus


Power picks:

Encounter
Hurricane of Blades (27)
Rain of Blows (23)
Inexorable Pursuit (7)
Critical Opportunity (P)

Daily
Force the Battle (29)
Relentless Assault (25)
Aspect of Fury (15)
Deep Dagger Wound (P)

Utility
Platinum Scales (E)
Meditation of the Blade (P)
Twin Step (22)
Raise the Stakes (16)
Avenger's Readiness (10)
Aspect of Agility (6)
Refocus Enmity (2)

Items

+6 Bloodiron Dagger x2
War Ring x2
Gauntlets of Destruction
+6 Iron Armbands of Power

Attack roll with CA: +37 (+15 level, +7 Strength, +3 Proficiency, +6 Enhancement, +3 Weapon Expertise, +2 Combat Advantage, +1 Nimble Blade)

Miss damage: 12 (+7 Dexterity, +5 Sneak Attack) (Perfect Assassin level 24 class feature)

Damage (Dual Strike, mainhand): 22 (2d4+16) (+6 Enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power, +1 Two Weapon Fighting)

Critical Damage (Dual Strike, mainhand): 132 (8+16+18d10) (+6 Enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power, +1 Two Weapon Fighting) (6d10 base, 2d10 War Rings, 1d10 Devastating Critical, deal damage twice)

Damage (Dual Strike, offhand): 21 (2d4+15) (+6 Enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power)

Critical Damage (Dual Strike, offhand): 131 (8+15+18d10) (+6 Enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power) (6d10 base, 2d10 War Rings, 1d10 Devastating Critical, deal damage twice)

Damage (Basic, offhand): 28 (2d4+22) (+7 Strength, +6 Enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power)

Critical Damage (Basic, offhand): 138 (8+22+18d10) (+7 Strength, +6 Enhancement, +3 Weapon Focus, +6 Iron Armbands of Power) (6d10 base, 2d10 War Rings, 1d10 Devastating Critical, deal damage twice)


Damage Calculations<br /> Miss chance (before reroll) 0.3<br /> Crit chance (before reroll) 0.15<br /> Hit chance (noncrit) 0.63<br /> Crit chance 0.28<br /> Miss chance 0.09<br /> Chance of at least one critical hit 0.48<br /> Hit chance (including crits) 0.91<br /> <br /> <br /> Miss Damage 12<br /> Dual Strike Mainhand Damage 22<br /> Dual Strike Mainhand Damage (Crit) 132<br /> Dual Strike Offhand Damage 21<br /> Dual Strike Offhand Damage (Crit) 131<br /> Offhand Basic Damage 28<br /> Offhand Basic Damage (Crit) 138<br /> <br /> <br /> Miss Damage Contribution per hit 1.08<br /> Mainhand Hit Contribution 13.92<br /> Mainhand Crit Contribution 36.63<br /> Mainhand Total 51.63<br /> Offhand Dual Strike Hit Contribution 13.28<br /> Offhand Dual Strike Crit Contribution 36.35<br /> Offhand Total 50.72<br /> Offhand Basic Hit Contribution 17.71<br /> Offhand Basic Crit Contribution 36.35<br /> Offhand Basic Total 55.14<br /> Two Weapon Opening Contribution 15.30<br /> [b]Dual Strike Total DPR 117.64[/b]

These numbers cause several forms of awe.
Bloodiron (18-20), the Oath, Immortal Curse, and Max Damage are insanity incarnate.

Hopefully, this is the last Punisher build we see...ever.

Nice job though.
Bloodiron (18-20), the Oath, Immortal Curse, and Max Damage are insanity incarnate.

Hopefully, this is the last Punisher build we see...ever.

Nice job though.

You can remove Punisher from the equation and still end up with high damage. I didn't bother with it because the calculations for it are simple enough for anyone to do, and I'm almost sure I'm going to play a Punisher - after houseruling a 1 AP/round limit.
Right, Twin Strike is still Twin Strike even without Punisher.

I'm working on a Half Elf Avenger Daggermaster Eternal Seeker. Since the Avenger gets no innate multi-attacks, I'm going to take them at dagger point from other classes. Eternal Action is seriously under rated as well. Maybe get some Godlike Stature as well.

It's too bad the Punisher is so ridiculous. The flavor is really cool, especially for an Avenger.

BTW, what array did you use for stats?
BTW, what array did you use for stats?

As you could probably deduct, 18 str / 13 dex /13 wis. Obviously this build sacrifices a lot.
As you could probably deduct, 18 str / 13 dex /13 wis. Obviously this build sacrifices a lot.

I'm awe when I see the damage, and know those values are frighteningly close to the DPR (perhaps they are already), then I see the 1/2 elf racial stat boni (+2 con, +2 cha) and see you base class as wisdom based, the daggermaster's powers based on Dex, and then Twin strike based on strength. Ouch!
Hopefully we'll see more PP with 18-20 crit range.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I'm awe when I see the damage, and know those values are frighteningly close to the DPR (perhaps they are already), then I see the 1/2 elf racial stat boni (+2 con, +2 cha) and see you base class as wisdom based, the daggermaster's powers based on Dex, and then Twin strike based on strength. Ouch!
Hopefully we'll see more PP with 18-20 crit range.

This build is based around the premise that you won't bother with encounter powers. You could start with 16 STR if you want to play through heroic with this character: thanks to the Oath and Weapon Expertise you aren't missing much anyway.
Did you go with a strength build over a dex build because of two weapon opening? Twin strike can be strength or dex, and dex works better with daggermaster powers. Dex also helps with your AC and Avenger powers key off it as a secondary stat.

Gauntlets of destruction would allow you increase your avg weapon damage from you deal by one size category and also allow rerolls of 1's on your critical hit dice.

I guess if you are simply trying to max DPR you would want to qualify for two weapon opening, but dex gives you a more balanced character.
Twin Strike's Dex option only works for ranged attacks, while the Avenger's Oath only works in melee. Well, I guess that's not entirely true, you could stand adjacent to the enemy and use a ranged attack, but you'd provoke the OA. Provoking an OA every time you attack seems like a bad thing to me, honestly.
This build is based around the premise that you won't bother with encounter powers. You could start with 16 STR if you want to play through heroic with this character: thanks to the Oath and Weapon Expertise you aren't missing much anyway.

Yeah, I think this is a character who sacrifices way too much for that 18 Str. If you drop the Str by 2, then the miss chance goes to 0.16 instead of 0.9. If you reduce the Str to 14, the miss chance is 0.25. But the crit chance stays the same.

Which sounds like a big jump, but of the Twin Strike damage, I don't see a significant percentage actually coming from the regular swings. I'm guessing that you'd lose at worst 20-25 points of damage from the 344. For builds focusing on pure DPR, you could start Str at 16, Dex at 16, and Wis at 13, and then level Str/Dex. This also gives the advantage of being able to use the Daggermaster and/or Rogue powers as well as being able to throw the daggers when getting into range of your oath target isn't possible.

If you want most of the damage of the build, but be a functioning Avenger, you start off with Str 14, Dex 14, Wis 16 and level Str/Wis.
I would like to bump this thread, as a build with at-will damage outpacing that of the Stormwarden, the traditional king of at-will damage, is quite noteworthy. I'll also point out that this build would've received more attention had it included some ostentatious display of its DPR in the thread title, as a testament to how much this board cares about damage.
Yeah, I think this is a character who sacrifices way too much for that 18 Str. If you drop the Str by 2, then the miss chance goes to 0.16 instead of 0.9. If you reduce the Str to 14, the miss chance is 0.25. But the crit chance stays the same.

Which sounds like a big jump, but of the Twin Strike damage, I don't see a significant percentage actually coming from the regular swings. I'm guessing that you'd lose at worst 20-25 points of damage from the 344. For builds focusing on pure DPR, you could start Str at 16, Dex at 16, and Wis at 13, and then level Str/Dex. This also gives the advantage of being able to use the Daggermaster and/or Rogue powers as well as being able to throw the daggers when getting into range of your oath target isn't possible.

If you want most of the damage of the build, but be a functioning Avenger, you start off with Str 14, Dex 14, Wis 16 and level Str/Wis.

Indeed, most of the damage comes from the high critical chance, and Action Surge makes sure you'll at least get your extra hits in. According to my calculations, with 4 less Strength you'd lose around 7 DPR... which certainly allows us to create a more functional character. I'll work on a full build once I get my hands on a PHBII.
I would like to bump this thread, as a build with at-will damage outpacing that of the Stormwarden, the traditional king of at-will damage, is quite noteworthy. I'll also point out that this build would've received more attention had it included some ostentatious display of its DPR in the thread title, as a testament to how much this board cares about damage.

Didnt the weapon talent tempest bend the storm warden over? Or am I mistaken.

In any event it is interesting that rolling 4 times will always beat twin strike dispite the auto damage of the storm warden. Its really funny that -4 to hit is about 7 DPR I guess that to hit isnt everything!

Just out of curiosity is this really the highest we can push the DPR? are there any critical effects you could be missing?
In any event it is interesting that rolling 4 times will always beat twin strike dispite the auto damage of the storm warden. Its really funny that -4 to hit is about 7 DPR I guess that to hit isnt everything!

That's actually a -2 to hit, not -4(I was doing the percentages wrong due to be tired), but Fastbond did them correctly.

I think a lot of the early looks at Avenger are way overemphasizing concentrating on Wis over one of the secondary stats. It might be the first class where you want your secondary stat higher than your primary...
That's actually a -2 to hit, not -4(I was doing the percentages wrong due to be tired), but Fastbond did them correctly.

I think a lot of the early looks at Avenger are way overemphasizing concentrating on Wis over one of the secondary stats. It might be the first class where you want your secondary stat higher than your primary...

Actually, I think you may want a completely off stat higher than the primary, specifically Strength.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Actually, I think you may want a completely off stat higher than the primary, specifically Strength.

I'm not talking about just this build - I'm talking about Avenger as a whole - putting a base 14 into the 'primary' stat seems very doable - even if you only hit 45% of the time, you still hit your oath target 70% of the time.
That's actually a -2 to hit, not -4(I was doing the percentages wrong due to be tired), but Fastbond did them correctly.

I think a lot of the early looks at Avenger are way overemphasizing concentrating on Wis over one of the secondary stats. It might be the first class where you want your secondary stat higher than your primary...

Yep. The Oath changes the way stats need to be allocated. The biggest problem this creates for me though is that Avengers have more incentive to go outside their class to get better damaging powers. So you can have Str Avengers that are far, far better than their Wis counterparts at killing stuff. But that, of course, is the strikers job. Str also isn't supposed to have any effect on the Avenger. I'd argue it's his main stat, before even Wis.
First things first. Nice work!

I think we might be able to get the DPR a little higher though. For one thing, I believe Devastating Critical damage should be multiplied x2 along with War Rings, and, secondly, have you considered using Power Attack with every attack (at least in Paragon and Epic)? Your to-hit is good enough that I think it would be worth it, and factoring both of these should give you another slight bump.
Does the 344 DPR at level 30 come from an action surge turn or not? I think the "fairest" way would be to assume you'll have an AP on 48% of turns, since that's how often you crit once. Do your calculations only allow for the two-weapon opening if the main hand crits during twin strike (which should happen about 24% then)?

Don't you qualify for Nimble blade at epic? Dex 13 at level 1 -> Dex 15 at level 21. +1 to hit with light blade and CA... can't hurt.
Does the 344 DPR at level 30 come from an action surge turn or not? I think the "fairest" way would be to assume you'll have an AP on 48% of turns, since that's how often you crit once. Do your calculations only allow for the two-weapon opening if the main hand crits during twin strike...

Went through the calculations here for Level 30, and I'm coming up with the HEAD POG(Half-Elf Avenger/Daggermaster/Punisher of Gods) would get about an average of .632 AP per Twin Strike Usage. Not the chance to get one, but how many APs he would have per Twin Strike(And free action off-hand attack). With that, a HEAD POG would get 2.349 APs a turn on average.

No Crit chance = .7225 * .7225 = ~.520
Only 1 Crit = .2775 * .7225 * .7225 + .7225 * .2775 = ~.345 = .345 AP
Only 2 Crits = .2775 * .2775 * .7225 + .2775 * .7225 * .2775 = ~.111 = .223 AP
All 3 Crits = .2775 * .2775 * .2775 = ~.021 = .064 AP
Average AP per Twin Strike = .632

Not sure where my calculations differ from the OP, but...
Twin Strike -> Average of 144.489 damage -> .632 AP created.
(AP).632 * Twin Strike -> Average of 93.647 damage -> ~.399 AP created.
(AP).399 * Twin Strike -> Average of 59.186 damage -> ~.252 AP created.
(AP).252 * Twin Strike -> Average of 37.406 damage -> ~.160 AP created.
(AP).160 * Twin Strike -> Average of ...
Leading to a total of...
Average of 2.349 AP created and an Average of 398.944 damage done.

Blasted dependent possibilities, not easy to calculate. Please, please, please don't ask what happens when Relentless Assault is up from a Warlord.
I've updated the post with the Eternal Seeker build I posted on the DPR King candidates thread. Check it out, it looks promising, and I'm probably missing a power or two worth taking.
this thread has a really interesting concept. Im starting up a campaign in the coming weeks, and am curious as to what stats you recommend for a half elf avenger using the eternal seeker build. I want this to be a fun play, not a one trick pc.

Help a brother out?

EDIT:
im wondering, how to set this character up for the long run. What feats to pick first, etc? I cant see from the lv. 30 what should be coming first in a build like this.

Thanks!
this thread has a really interesting concept. Im starting up a campaign in the coming weeks, and am curious as to what stats you recommend for a half elf avenger using the eternal seeker build. I want this to be a fun play, not a one trick pc.

Help a brother out?

I'd go with the following stats:
Str 14, Con 15, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 12 and then level Dex/Wis.

Yes, that might seem surprising, given the trick involves swinging for crits. But...

Your Dex will be reasonably high, so you can throw your daggers when necessary(and that doesn't benefit from your oath). This is not a bad thing.

You will have an AC.

And as has been pointed out, the vast majority of the build's damage actually comes from the crits. The important thing is to make sure you get the to hit feats, such as Nimble Blade or Action Surge that ensure hits.
This isn't the best way to go if you don't want a one-trick pony, really, because until you get Eternal Seeker, your best power will be Twin/Dual Strike.

MWaO's suggested stats are fine. You can also go 16 STR / 14 WIS, but this isn't the best route to go if you're playing this through heroic and paragon, though, because you probably want to use your avenger powers and you don't want to raise your Wisdom while leveling up. Your power choices should be all about mobility and setting up your Oath target.

Finally, remember that for levels 1-10, you don't have any reason to use daggers at all. Getting a higher damage weapon might be worth it.
Finally, remember that for levels 1-10, you don't have any reason to use daggers at all. Getting a higher damage weapon might be worth it.

Yeah, I'd spend the feat on WP: Urgrosh from 1-10 and pick up Ranger multiclass feats until you near 10th - then retrain everything towards going into Rogue at 11th.
I really like the look of this build. I'm rolling up a new character for a level 8 campaign (almost 9; got a couple new people joining the game, and I thought it'd be fun to try out one of the new classes, so the Avenger will just pick up where my Rogue left off).

Here's my first pass at stats and feats, but I'm not 100% confident in either of them.

Level 8 Snapshot
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
level 8
Half-Elf, Avenger
Avenger's Censure: Censure of Pursuit

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 15, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 13, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 24 Fort: 20 Reflex: 20 Will: 10
HP: 71 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 17

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +8, Perception +12, Athletics +12, Acrobatics +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +3, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +6, Heal +7, History +3, Insight +9, Intimidate +5, Nature +7, Stealth +9, Streetwise +5, Thievery +7

FEATS
Level 1: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 2: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 4: Action Surge
Level 6: Righteous Rage of Tempus
Level 8: Improved Armor of Faith

Planned feats:
Level 10: Sneak of Shadows<br /> Level 11: Versatile Master<br /> Level 12: Devastating Critical<br /> Level 14: Two-Weapon Fighting<br /> Level 16: Two-Weapon Opening

POWERS
Avenger at-will 1: Bond of Pursuit
Avenger at-will 1: Overwhelming Strike
Avenger encounter 1: Whirlwind Charge
Avenger daily 1: Oath of the Final Duel
Half-Elf: Twin Strike
Avenger utility 2: Refocus Enmity
Avenger encounter 3: Sequestering Strike
Avenger daily 5: Bond of Foresight
Avenger utility 6: Soul Seeker
Avenger encounter 7: Inexorable Pursuit

Planned powers:
Avenger daily 9: Aspect of Speed<br /> Avenger utility 10: River of Life<br /> Avenger encounter 13: Sequestering Word (replaces Whirlwind Charge)<br /> Avenger daily 15: Sigil of Carceri (replaces Oath of the Final Duel)<br /> Avenger utility 16: Vengeful Revenant

ITEMS [carried over from my Rogue]
Magic Leather Armor +1, Reckless Longsword +2, Baldric of Tactical Positioning (heroic tier), Elven Cloak +2
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======


The items are just what my rogue had, with the dagger converted into a longsword. I'll have our wizard Transfer Enchantment to bump it over to a dagger at 11 until I get bloodiron.

I like the attribute layout here a little better. A nice balance between Wis, Str, and Dex. Solid defenses and adequate str and wis for attacks.
[20:53] [SadisticFish] yeah Llamas convinced me
Not up on on Paragon Multiclassing stuff.

How does an Avenger get the Daggermaster Paragon Path of the Rogue ?
if one takes a multi-class feat (sneak of the shadows) you qualify for all feats and paragon paths that require rogue as a prerequisite. It does not allow you to qualify for other feats with other prerequisites (first strike) as you don't have those class features.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Did you spend a feat to train Bluff to pick up Raise the Stakes?
Did you spend a feat to train Bluff to pick up Raise the Stakes?

No, use your background for that instead.
Critical Extra Damage: +9d10 damage (+3d10 Bloodiron Dagger, +1d10 War Ring)* 2 + 1d10 Devastating Critical

Am I misunderstanding this or do I have the rules wrong? I would think that if you critically hit with one of these bloodiron weapons, you would do +3d10 Dagger, +1d10 War Ring, + 1d10 Devastating Critical... for a total of 5d10. How is 9d10 accomplished?

I think I'm just misreading something.
Am I misunderstanding this or do I have the rules wrong? I would think that if you critically hit with one of these bloodiron weapons, you would do +3d10 Dagger, +1d10 War Ring, + 1d10 Devastating Critical... for a total of 5d10. How is 9d10 accomplished?

I think I'm just misreading something.

Twin strike has two different attacks, each capable of critically hitting. The dagger and war ring d10s apply to the critical hit from each attack. So the first attack critically hits, and does +3d10 dagger + 1d10 war ring. Then the second attack critically hits and does +3d10 dagger and +1d10 war ring. Finally because the power critically hit, devastating critical adds a final +1d10.
Dagger 3D10, Rogue Weapon Mast 2D4, War Ring D10, Dev Crit D10: 5D10+2D4

PLus this critical damage is dealt at the start of the next turn as well.

So 10D10+4D4 Total at Paragon, thats per attack.

If you are using Twin Strike you have 2 attacks like this.

How about a halfelf rogue daggermaster punisher that just multiclasses to Avenger with Hero of Faith and takes the "Mighty Enmity feat". You have a balanced char that does this damage on 2 creatures in the encounter, and with a daggermaster i think punisher is not a bad epic to go either way.
That way you also get sneak attack damage.

Sign In to post comments