Da Bleeder - 96 ongoing damage without needing to-hit

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Lady Snowblood

Da Bleeder - The result is something like this


The idea for this came from an idea I had on the thread of optimizing missing. The class will do insane amounts of damage without worrying about hitting at all. Nice, eh?

It's playable at all levels, but it comes into its own at 16th level, and becomes rather brutal by 30th.

At 16th level:
Da Bleeder, Longtooth Shifter Beastmaster Ranger (multiclass spellscarred)/Ruthless Punisher
Str 22
Dex 11
Con 14
Int 11
Wis 22
Cha 10

Relevant Feats:
1 Multiclass: Spellscar
2 Cruel Cut Style (from Dragon 373 - Art of the Kill)
10 Daily Power Swap (Caging Strike -> Blurring Blade)
11 Bleeding Precision (add +5 ongoing untyped damage to all Ranger daily hits)

Relevant Powers:
Predator's Strike (at-will): Deals ongoing damage equal to Wisdom modifier instead of bonus damage equal to wisdom modifier. (Via Cruel Cut Style).
Spellscar 5 - Blurring Blade (stance; all encounter long, all enemies starting within 1 square take 11 ongoing fire and necrotic damage (save ends))
Ranger 5 - Lacerating Maul (16 ongoing damage on hit or miss)
Ranger 9 - Caging Strike (21 ongoing damage on hit), swapped for Blurring Blade (Spellscar 5)
Ranger 15 - Arterial Strike (ongoing 21 / aftereffect ongoing 16, reliable)
And later on:
Ranger 19 - Growling Assault (ongoing 21 on hit or miss, if target is immobilized)
Ruthless Punisher 20 - Bleed Away (up to ongoing damage 71 if the enemy doesn't want to be moved, but realistically, the enemy will allow itself to be pushed around to avoid taking that much damage)
Ranger 29 - Huntmaster's Bloodbath (ongoing 31 on hit / 21 on miss)

Relevant Items at level 16:
+3 Amulet of Aranea (16 ongoing poison and -2 to saves vs poison all encounter)
+3 Wounding Weapon or +4 Cunning Weapon (-3 to saves vs ongoing damage, and wounding can inflict 16 ongoing untyped damage on a hit as well)
Caustic Whetstone (8 ongoing acid damage with every melee hit)
Optional: +3 Snakefang Armor or Addergrease Armor (16 ongoing poison damage), use after Aranea damage has worn off.
Optional: Salve of Power to recover blurring blade.

Relevant PP Powers:
16th Level Ruthless Punisher: +Wisdom to all ongoing damage, and CA against humanoids taking ongoing damage, which could be all of them.
(It also deals +Wisdom to all melee attacks vs. Humanoids designated as quarry, which can be a nice damage boost.)

A good first round nova:
Minor: Blurring Blade. (11 ongoing fire and necrotic damage to all enemies adjacent (save ends))
Minor: Caustic Whetstone (adds 8 ongoing acid damage (save ends at -3) to every hit)
Standard: Arterial Strike (ongoing 21 damage (save ends at -3), followed by ongoing 16 damage (save ends at -3) aftereffect). Reliable.
Immediate Reaction when attacked: Amulet of Aranea (ongoing 16 poison damage (save ends at -2))
Don't even need an action point, unless you want to move or something.

So at the end of the round, all enemies near you are taking 11 ongoing damage, and one enemy is taking around 40 ongoing damage, 56 ongoing damage if he attacks you, with a serious penalty to a lot of his saves, and an aftereffect on the daily even if he does save. All the different ongoing damage types are different, so they all stack. And even if he does save against the blurring blade, you can always just reapply it (without needing an attack roll).

If you don't care about single target damage, then you can just dance all over the battlefield, applying your 11 ongoing damage to all the foes on the field. If they save, you just wander back over to them, and set them on fire again.

And, again, all of the above can be done by not caring at all about hitting or missing. Worst case scenario, and you can't hit the enemy at all (and Da Bleeder's +attack is going to be as good as anyone's, really), you can just use one of the dailies that applies the ongoing damage on a miss as well. But I prefer the reliable attack - aftereffect 16 ongoing damage (save ends at -3) is just too tasty. If you miss, just try again the next round.

For the combats that you don't care about novaing, you still have all your normal ranger beastmaster tricks and encounter powers, with a high on-class str and wisdom, and good defenses in all categories except reflex.

As the build levels up to 30, the penalty to saves gets worse (up to -6 with Wounding Weapon, or -4 with Cunning Weapon), and the ongoing damage gets higher, so it scales up very nicely. At 30th, it will be 96 ongoing damage, save ends on a 16+. He'll also be immortal, but that's just a nice side benefit of being a beastmaster.

3/21/2010: Pernicious Onslaught changes this to 192 ongoing damage. Nice.

Alternative options:
If you go wizard/ranger, you can orb of imposition the massive ongoing damage you'll get from your spells (you'll have a nice wisdom for it, too) and then just walk away or whatever while the guy bleeds out or burns to death, or whatever.

Ranger/fighter offers Deep Gash for another -2 penalty to save vs. ongoing damage on axe attacks, and a couple nice options for ongoing damage, most notably Reaper's Stance (Daily 25), which is pretty superior to Blurring Blade, except it's untyped damage as well, so doesn't stack with the other ongoing damage. But if I had to play this build at high epic, I'd probably use Reaper's Stance instead of Blurring Blade, for its ongoing 22 damage (save ends at -8), free [W] damage to all adjacent enemies, free improved crit, and +Dex to damage. You'd also need Enduring Wallop at that point.

Update: Cruel Cut style now lets us benefit from this combo on at-will attacks. You'll have to use predator's strike (which isn't the most optimal of at-wills), but it will inflict double your wisdom modifier as ongoing damage as an at-will. That's pretty good. =) (At first level, it's just +wisdom ongoing damage, but it now means the build is interesting across all levels.)

Update #2: The Ebberon Player's Handbook has released a couple new tricks for this build. The Contagion aberrant dragonmark gives a -2 to all saves against ongoing damage (rock on!) the Eberron Shard of Bleeding Wounds increases all ongoing damage by +2. Nice, and very nice!

Update #3: Pernicious Onslaught is a new spellscarred feat that says whenever a monster fails a saving throw against our ongoing damage, an adjacent enemy takes equal damage + 5. This will more or less double the ongoing damage we get to inflict, since we're lighting up a lot of adjacent enemies with ongoing damage, and they can each inflict it to each other. Also, the Tenacity for Living feat gives a -2 penalty to enemy saves vs ongoing fire and necrotic, but it requires a multiclass into a primal class (which means we'd need to move to Windrise Ports along with all the other cool kids.)
How do you get the +6 damage to all your ongoing effects? Is that a feat/weapon/item?
I was going to say that ongoing damage doesn't stack, but then I noticed they were all from different types of damage - so, good job!
Very nice!

And the fact that Blurring Blade is only level 5 is really good... with the yummy Salve of Power... and will allow you to re-use this stance almost every combat.

Anyone else noticed that many of the stances level 5 (and below) are really good?
Anyone else noticed that many of the stances level 5 (and below) are really good?

Sure. Rain of Steel is much overpowered as it is.
Methinks that this will make any DM quickly switch from multiple target encounters to single target encounters. The build looks pretty fun but sort of a bookkeeping nightmare to some extent.
How do you get the +6 damage to all your ongoing effects? Is that a feat/weapon/item?

The ruthless punisher level 16 PP ability adds wisdom bonus to "the ongoing damage you deal."

Actually, this is another one of those interesting wordings... Does this mean Add all ongoing damage THEN add wisdom modifier? or does this mean add wisdom modifier to EACH ongoing damage. The wording is vague enough to be interpreted either way IMO. As a striker I think it should be each, but just saying this could be a sticking point.
Very nice!

And the fact that Blurring Blade is only level 5 is really good... with the yummy Salve of Power... and will allow you to re-use this stance almost every combat.

Anyone else noticed that many of the stances level 5 (and below) are really good?

Yeah, good point. I forgot about that, what with the Veteran's Armor nerf.
Methinks that this will make any DM quickly switch from multiple target encounters to single target encounters. The build looks pretty fun but sort of a bookkeeping nightmare to some extent.

I bought a set of those magnetic counter that you can attach to figs. I'd drop a red "bleeding" counter on any fig that has blurring blade up on it currently, and then just keep track manually of the single target we're bleeding out.
Blurring Blade sadly doesn't have a weapon/implement keyword, so Cunning Weapon doesn't apply.
Blurring Blade sadly doesn't have a weapon/implement keyword, so Cunning Weapon doesn't apply.

Yeah. I note the ongoing damages that have the save penalty applied to them.

But it doesn't really need one, since you can always reapply it by just walking back next to them.
Thanks Shaka! Nice build. It looks fun!

Looking over the build I saw something that I think almost any close fight or high AC character should have and that is the Spell Scared power of "Blurring Blade" With the salve of power. WOW! For just 2 feats you can get, Darkvision, or reach 1 "1 attack" AND this awesome ability. If any Melee type that goes toe to toe with the enemies they should have this ability. It is an auto guaranteed 5 damage and then some! The only downside is that you have to wait till 10th level to get the power.

With RPGA cards not being "special" anymore, any one in RPGA can now play a spell scared. Just print off the card.
Looking over the build I saw something that I think almost any close fight or high AC character should have and that is the Spell Scared power of "Blurring Blade" With the salve of power. WOW! For just 2 feats you can get, Darkvision, or reach 1 "1 attack" AND this awesome ability.

To be fair, Rain of Steel (Fighter Daily 5) probably does more auto-damage, if that's what you're looking for. And you can use Salve of Power with it. But that wasn't the focus of this topic (which is bleed damage).
To be fair, Rain of Steel (Fighter Daily 5) probably does more auto-damage, if that's what you're looking for. And you can use Salve of Power with it. But that wasn't the focus of this topic (which is bleed damage).

With rain of steel, you have to start each round next to the targets. With blurring blade, they and you can shift around the battlefield and they'll still take the ongoing damage till they save, which is kinda nice.

Oh, just noticed blurring blade is a minor action like rain of steel. So no action point necessary on the nova. =)
The idea for this came from an idea I had on the thread of optimizing missing. The class will do insane amounts of damage without worrying about hitting at all. Nice, eh?

It's playable at all levels, but it comes into its own at 16th level, and becomes rather brutal by 30th.

At 16th level:
Da Bleeder, Longtooth Shifter Beastmaster Ranger (multiclass spellscarred)/Ruthless Punisher
Str 22
Dex 11
Con 14
Int 11
Wis 22
Cha 10

Relevant Feats:
1 Multiclass: Spellscar
10 Daily Power Swap (Caging Strike -> Blurring Blade)
11 Bleeding Precision (add +5 ongoing untyped damage to all Ranger daily hits)

Was a Constitution of 14 required for any of this, or just a side bonus (nothing else to spend the points on?).
Was a Constitution of 14 required for any of this, or just a side bonus (nothing else to spend the points on?).

Nope, just extra points left over. You could put it into Dex if you want the higher defenses and Init.
Updated for Cruel Cut Style.
What about Bleeding Precision from MP? Or Persistent Poison from the same article as Cruel Cut?
What about Bleeding Precision from MP? Or Persistent Poison from the same article as Cruel Cut?

It already has bleeding precision. I'll have to think about the persistent poison attacks. IMO, the spellscar stance is better as a daily, but the poisoner feats give you ongoing poison as an encounter and a daily. They both cost your multiclass.
[...]most notably Reaper's Stance (Daily 25), which is pretty superior to Blurring Blade, except it's untyped damage as well, so doesn't stack with the other ongoing damage. But if I had to play this build at high epic, I'd probably use Reaper's Stance instead of Blurring Blade,[...]

I like your idea of The Bleeder and one question came up when I thought about reaper's stance:
If you use a force, flaming, or frost weapon (any weapon that can change the damage type they deal) with reaper's, does the ongoing damage type change as well? - I say yes.
I'll elaborate it with an example:
Round1:
minor: activate Reaper's; standard: make an attack; move: --
one or more opponents are hit by Reaper's, ongiong 10 damage, they fail their saves
Round2: free: activate your force weapon, you deal now force damage; standard: make an attack; move + minor: --
one or more opponents are hit by Reaper's, ongiong 10 damage and ongoing 10 force damage, they fail their saves.
Round3: standard make an attack; minor sheath weapon, minor draw another weapon that changes the damagetype; free activate that weapon.
one or more opponents are hit by Reaper's, ongiong 10 damage and ongoing 10 force damage and ongoing 10 damage, they fail their saves.
Round4: minor sheath weapon; standard: make an attack draw any weapon which offers a new damage type (quick draw)....

You could buy +1 weapons that change the damage type and try to avoid making to hit rolls with them.

One problem starts in Round4 if you like to use more than two weapons but only if you want to use a heavy shield or if you use only two handed weapons.

Comments are welcome!


EDIT:
Somehow I feel like I missed something that prevents that from working...
EDIT:
Somehow I feel like I missed something that prevents that from working...

Ongoing damage and damage might not be the same thing. A flaming weapon says that all damage dealt by the weapon is fire damage. It's arguable if ongoing damage is affected by it (it may be - it's worth a Cust Serv email), but I don't think blurring blade would get the benefit at all, since it doesn't have the weapon keyword.
It already has bleeding precision. I'll have to think about the persistent poison attacks. IMO, the spellscar stance is better as a daily, but the poisoner feats give you ongoing poison as an encounter and a daily. They both cost your multiclass.

Especially since the Spellscar stance is just a lvl 5 power... so you can use Salves of Power to regain it every combat. You can't do that with the Poisoner powers.
Would you add Weapon Focus and other "goodies" to Rain of Steel? If that is the case it's going to do a lot of dmg. (I know it's not the objective of this build, but it came up, so I thought to ask)
Would you add Weapon Focus and other "goodies" to Rain of Steel? If that is the case it's going to do a lot of dmg. (I know it's not the objective of this build, but it came up, so I thought to ask)

Things like reckless and bloodclaw wouldn't work, neither would tempest +2 bonus, but weapon focus and marked scourge (pre and post nerf) would work. The magic enhancement, iron armbands of power....
But I digress.
I really like the ongoing damage. I do think the weapon swap would work as different types should stack. This sounds like a good idea even for heroic and paragon.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Especially since the Spellscar stance is just a lvl 5 power... so you can use Salves of Power to regain it every combat. You can't do that with the Poisoner powers.

Yep. Plus we already have a lot of different ways of getting ongoing poison damage. Though the poison resistance penetration is nice, it just doesn't add up to the sheer awesomeness of blurring blade.
It already has bleeding precision. I'll have to think about the persistent poison attacks. IMO, the spellscar stance is better as a daily, but the poisoner feats give you ongoing poison as an encounter and a daily. They both cost your multiclass.

Persistent Poisoner isn't part of the multiclass poison feats, and your neck and armor slots are already doing ongoing poison damage.
Hey, Shaka, wanted to let you know I've added this build to the Ranger Handbook's Reference list. Keep up the good work!
Fun build

I was actually going to try to find some free time to see if Ruthless Punisher could be an effective option for a Ranged Ranger. The build I have in mind would be a cross between some of the standard BA builds with the thought of incorporating Ruthless Punisher ongoing damage on daily powers to make 'em bleed.
Persistent Poisoner isn't part of the multiclass poison feats, and your neck and armor slots are already doing ongoing poison damage.

Sure, so it's a -2 to save for your item poison saves... dunno if it's really worth it, but this feat doesn't have a huge number of feats reserved, so it might be worth taking, yeah.
Just thought I'd mention this since I was looking through ongoing damage powers.

There is a Spellscarred Encounter power at level 23 that does ongoing 10 acid damage. Since you multiclassed Spellscarred for Blurring Blade anyway, it probably wouldn't hurt to drop one feat on Novice Power for an ongoing damage Encounter power.
Just thought I'd mention this since I was looking through ongoing damage powers.

There is a Spellscarred Encounter power at level 23 that does ongoing 10 acid damage. Since you multiclassed Spellscarred for Blurring Blade anyway, it probably wouldn't hurt to drop one feat on Novice Power for an ongoing damage Encounter power.

Yeah, nice.
This build looks alot of fun!

One thing I wanted to mention that I found.

Bladelings are +2 wis/dex, but their racial power WITH the improved razor storm feat is a burst 2 power that does 1d8+str mod AND ongoing 5/10/15 damage (improves with tier) as a *minor* action.

While bladelings are a monster class, there is an RPGA card out that allows them. Granted most of the fun doesn't start until lvl 16 but I thought I'd bring this excellent racial to your attention.

Also, while the spellscared stance is awesome, I'm personally going to take the poisoner multiclass encounter power, to do an at-will with added ongoing poison. So with that, you'd do a cruel cut predator's strike with 2x wis ongoing PLUS the 10+wis ongoing poison. I like the theme of going as a poison using humanoid hunter.
I suggest that you take a look at the L 10Sorcerer Utility (Daily) power Storm of Energy, that increase all Ongoing damage instance by 10, that be quite sick for the build
I suggest that you take a look at the L 10Sorcerer Utility (Daily) power Storm of Energy, that increase all Ongoing damage instance by 10, that be quite sick for the build

wow that's a nasty find.
"Each instance of ongong damage that each target is taking increases by 10."
It's a minor action on top of it. Does this mean if a target suffers multiple instances of ongoing damage, each is increased by 10?
Perhaps a bard build who takes all the best ongoing damage and save penalty powers can make it happen.
I've never been a fan of ongoing damage, but the OP changed my mind
Calling out at the start of the monster's turn "96 damage!" is just too much fun...
What ranger class features does this require? I was thinking about hybrid multiclassing a ranger or fighter with a wizard, and creating a character that does gross amounts of ongoing damage and then makes it stick with the orb of imposition.

Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.

I too would like to see some kind of Bleed-Based Wizard, probably using the bleed thinggy from the improved orb of imposition feat. yeah, I know, if I want damage I should go be a Sorcerer, but I like wizard. A bleed wizard seems like it would be fun
What ranger class features does this require? I was thinking about hybrid multiclassing a ranger or fighter with a wizard, and creating a character that does gross amounts of ongoing damage and then makes it stick with the orb of imposition.

Beastmaster, kinda.
I suggest that you take a look at the L 10Sorcerer Utility (Daily) power Storm of Energy, that increase all Ongoing damage instance by 10, that be quite sick for the build

That would be quite good. You'd need a 13 Charisma, I guess, but it would add something like 50 ongoing damage to one combat per day to your main target, and radically ramp up the blurring blade damage to all the opponents affected by it. =)
There MUST be some way to add Death Dealer to this. -2 Saves to Adjacent Enemies is just too good to pass up, netting a -5 to Saves on ongoing damage attacks made with a Cunning Weapon.

What I really want is to combine Death Dealer, Spellscarred, and Poisoner in one build.
I've been trying to do this build for an 8th level character but I can't the CB to give me a spellscar. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?
I've been trying to do this build for an 8th level character but I can't the CB to give me a spellscar. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

You have to go to the character details tab under management and choose "character has a spellscar".

That opens up the ability to take the spellscar MC feats.
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